Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 4

[JMac1]

Still prefer Booker at the helm. If Josh does what Gordon did and what Jamal Murray is doing.....growing as a player and in 1 1/2 years Kyrie has his Summer Courting extravaganza, a lot of people will be eating crow. Problem is we won’t get to plaster the boards with it like they are plastering the board over and over with this Kyrie crap. The deal didn’t happen fellas, do yourself a favor and let it go.

Comparing not making this deal today versus 3 years from now is silly. I’ll wait three more years if it gives me 10 years of being competitive versus 2 and ending the growth of Booker.

Ulis is terrible.

If Josh gets to where he needs to be...I’ll let Booker continue to run the Harden role. He only fails now because everybody else stinks. He is a very willing passer. Sometimes too willing with the lack of talent we have, he should have went Kobe last night.....glad he didn’t tho.

Booker
JJ
Warren......is the best we can hope for now, because that’s who we have and what we can control, nothing else.

[hollywood6964]

Lonzo with more votes than Devin. What a joke.

Big Baller Brand, baby, in LA, beats just a normal guy in Phoenix, every time, you can 'Book' it.

See, that's that Booker needs...a catch phrase or something, like "When Devon shoots a 3, you can Book it"

Or, for you older types that remember the show, somehow come up with a way to play off the TJ Hooker with our hoop defending duo TJ Booker,or something...IDK...

Watch on YouTube

Ugh, stop being so, Leanderish.

[Qwigglez]

Would Kemba Walker or Hassan Whiteside get us to playoffs next season?

As far as Whiteside and Kemba go, by themselves I don't think so. I'd prefer Dragic because he's much more efficient, and we don't need our PG to take a lot of shots at the volume that Kemba takes. Sure Dragic is older but he could very well play for another 5 years at the least, he has that Manu type game.

[Frank Lee]

I do not understand all this talk about Kemba Walker.

Better look towards more realistic acquisitions.

Jeremy Lin has a player option for 12mill...just coming off knee injury. If healthy, I would bet he'd welcome a 2 to 3 yr deal somewhere. Likely will cost 10 mill per... Cant see Brooklyn caring with DLo and Dinwid. I'd be leary of the knee, but think he'd be a solid fit.

Efrid Payton is up for a paycheck increase. Just how much would he cost ? I read such mixed reviews on him at the ORL board. Sure, he is another challenged shooter, but he excels in other areas of need.... D and assists....

Rondo will be jobless. Does McD take sympathy and bring him on ?


And truthfully, the most logical solution at PG is Brandon Knight. Like it or not, he is on this roster and being paid handsomely. He's had a whole year of recovery and hopefully reflection. Id be surprised if McD can trade him, and more surprised if McD does not give him another chance at the helm. Either he works out or he doesn't.... or he's just soso. 2 of the three are good. Its the easiest path.


You guys are shade wearing pipers if you think we are going to pluck a player like Kemba. McD nose thumbed Irving over a high pick. What do you think a deal for Kemba is going to cost ... Warren and a future 1st ? ... No GM will create a huge hole in their roster without substantial return. Charlotte would be in the same boat as us... needing a starting PG, with few candidates available.

[Saberestar]

Yet he is still our second most talented player and there is not a team he wouldn’t be welcomed on. The notion TJ can’t improve in his areas of weakness is equally silly.

His skills are much harder to teach than his deficiencies to correct

I agree.

Warren is an special player that has been improving every year. I love that he is not another boring 3&D player...so many around the league. How many players can make what Warren does on the court?

Obviously, he is not an All Star player now, but if he takes another step in his development he would be a borderline All Star. Look out Oladipo or Tobias Harris (like bwgood77 said) this season.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[batsmasher]

This team with Fox running the point would have been electric.

Every bad game of Ulis' is a reminder that we messed up so much not trading Bled on draft night ;(

[Funky Tut]

looks like MCD whiffed on Jackson, he needs to not whiff on this years pick

[WeekapaugGroove]

I do not understand all this talk about Kemba Walker.

Better look towards more realistic acquisitions.

Jeremy Lin has a player option for 12mill...just coming off knee injury. If healthy, I would bet he'd welcome a 2 to 3 yr deal somewhere. Likely will cost 10 mill per... Cant see Brooklyn caring with DLo and Dinwid. I'd be leary of the knee, but think he'd be a solid fit.

Efrid Payton is up for a paycheck increase. Just how much would he cost ? I read such mixed reviews on him at the ORL board. Sure, he is another challenged shooter, but he excels in other areas of need.... D and assists....

Rondo will be jobless. Does McD take sympathy and bring him on ?


And truthfully, the most logical solution at PG is Brandon Knight. Like it or not, he is on this roster and being paid handsomely. He's had a whole year of recovery and hopefully reflection. Id be surprised if McD can trade him, and more surprised if McD does not give him another chance at the helm. Either he works out or he doesn't.... or he's just soso. 2 of the three are good. Its the easiest path.


You guys are shade wearing pipers if you think we are going to pluck a player like Kemba. McD nose thumbed Irving over a high pick. What do you think a deal for Kemba is going to cost ... Warren and a future 1st ? ... No GM will create a huge hole in their roster without substantial return. Charlotte would be in the same boat as us... needing a starting PG, with few candidates available.

I want a lot of different traits in my next pg but the one thats a must have is three point shooting. So some of your list would be immediately crossed off.

Some basketball people would argue you need 4 floor stretchers to have a good offense. I think 3 can work if you have a good scorer but non floor stretcher. 2 or less just doesnt work. If you don't have enough shooters you become too easy to guard for a smart defense. They just pack it in and force the nonshooters to shoot or you to drive into a contested paint.

As far as knight I can't see them actually counting him for anything. His best bet is the suns draft a pg like sexson who needs a little time and knight gets to split minutes for a year or two.

[bwgood77]

This team with Fox running the point would have been electric.

Every bad game of Ulis' is a reminder that we messed up so much not trading Bled on draft night ;(

I really am not a fan of point guard's who cannot shoot. I wasn't a fan of Fox and so far he's been a little worse than I expected. I think he may be able to fix it in time, but I am not completely sure. Yes, we should have traded Book on draft night but I'd much prefer a backcourt with Booker and Mitchell.

[nevetsov]

Unless we can include Knight in a trade for a PG, I can't see us making a deal for for a long term, lateral level PG this season. Just can't see us paying Knight and another guy unless the other guy is an obvious upgrade.

Considering what we gave up for BK, I think (barring any no brainer deals) that we see out the season as best we can with stop gap, expiring guys like Canaan and James. Next season, we retain:

Knight (healthy)
Sexton/ Young (best available pick)
Ulis (3rd string)

That should shore up the PG spot for the foreseeable future. Then it becomes working out how to consolidate assets into a high level C that can compete. Alongside Book and Warren, that's 3/4 positions ready to compete with emerging talent at PF.

[Waylay13]

looks like MCD whiffed on Jackson, he needs to not whiff on this years pick

I very much disagree before the draft we knew that Jackson was going to take time but even at that the majority of GMs have said that Jackson will be the best player from this draft in 5 years.

[NavLDO]

Irving is big time. I knew we wouldn't get him, but that cold day in hell has to happen someday, n I was hoping.....

but apparently we could have..... and there lies the rub


hard to imagine a top ten player coming available by trade again. But be clear, when one does, its going to cost a top pick and a player. I guess its easier to imagine Chris, Bender, Jackson figuring things out by next year. At least two of the three must.

Meanwhile, the search for a PG continues





(Goran says hi )

Yep, that's about right...with his maturity level, that's probably what he looks like...

...I'm a little cry-baby and didn't get what I wanted, so I stomped my feet and held my breath, and crossed my arms, and turned my back to McD until he agreed to trade me...

And look, I got what I wanted,

I'm slashin' 16/5
...an eFG of 49%
I've got news for you baby, you're looking at the Man
I've got skin in the game...

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[NavLDO]

Lonzo with more votes than Devin. What a joke.

Big Baller Brand, baby, in LA, beats just a normal guy in Phoenix, every time, you can 'Book' it.

See, that's that Booker needs...a catch phrase or something, like "When Devon shoots a 3, you can Book it"

Or, for you older types that remember the show, somehow come up with a way to play off the TJ Hooker with our hoop defending duo TJ Booker,or something...IDK...

Watch on YouTube

Ugh, stop being so, Leanderish.

That bad, huh? OK, I'll stop the insanity...well, this aspect of it, at least, I can't promise the rest...

[NavLDO]

Yeah no, he's not playing at an all-star level. He's scoring fairly efficiently from 2. Dude avgs 1ast, less and than a steal, shoots 18% from 3. Decent year, not anywhere near all star level. Using PER as barometer isnt exactly a good way to measure overall performance.

And Assts and 3PT%s, and STLs in vacuum are? How about you compare STLs to other Starting SFs, oh look, he's on par with the league average at his position. Let's look at Assts...21st amongst other starters, so top of the lower 3rd. Yep, he's bum. Let's forget about all these other areas he ranks against "starting" SFs

FTAs = 5th
FT% = 9th (for those with more than 100 FTAs)
FG% = 7th
2PT% = 3rd
PPG = 5th (And did you know the next 5 all play more MPG than he does?)
ORB = 1st
TRB/gm = 9th (PJ doesn't count, since he plays most minutes at PF)
TOs/gm = 13th
Blks/gm = 12th
Dbl-dbls = 6th

But hey, let's look at Assts, the most critical skillset for a SF, 2nd only to Stls, of course, and deem him "not anywhere near an all star level"

I almost hope we do trade him to a team with fans that would actually covet him for what he is.
let's take a look here...yep, these guys will do...how about...

Joe Ingles. A little light on the Steals...only half of Warren's, what was it? 'less than a steal' (.95), but he has 3X the assists at 4.2...AND he's shooting .435 from 3...never mind the fact he can't shoot from TWO (.440 FG%), averages just 75% of TRB, 28% of Blks, and 50% of Pts.

or if Stls are more important, we could go after...

Josh Richardson. He's averaging about 25% more than Warren in Stls, so he should be ideal. Plus, he averages 70% more Assts than Warren, too. Then add in his .358 vs .177 3PT%. Surely , he's much better than Warren, and closer to and All-Star than Warren. Never mind his 55% of TRB, or 65% of PPG.

Bottom line, you are trying make your point based upon 3 skillsets that are secondary in importance.

Let me ask you this. When fans, media, whoever, talk about a Forward and what he 'slashed', what numbers are placed in that 'stat' that is quoted? Stls?? Asts?? 3PT%?? No. When someone says Warren 'slashed' 21/5.5 the month of December, they are saying he scored 21 Pts and 5.5 TRB per game. Those are the 2 stats that REALLY matter...everything else is complimentary.

If Warren can't shoot 3PT shots, then we will have to rely on our other positions to provide this aspect of our offense, and with Booker, Bender or Chriss, and whatever PG/Combo Guard we employ next season, we can surely cover using that 60% of our offensive positions for our 3s.

Great addition to the discussion...

"If I just quote his post with an 'LOL' emoticon, I'll look cool, like I know more than he does, and I'm oh, so much more knowledgeable."

[NavLDO]

And Assts and 3PT%s, and STLs in vacuum are? How about you compare STLs to other Starting SFs, oh look, he's on par with the league average at his position. Let's look at Assts...21st amongst other starters, so top of the lower 3rd. Yep, he's bum. Let's forget about all these other areas he ranks against "starting" SFs

FTAs = 5th
FT% = 9th (for those with more than 100 FTAs)
FG% = 7th
2PT% = 3rd
PPG = 5th (And did you know the next 5 all play more MPG than he does?)
ORB = 1st
TRB/gm = 9th (PJ doesn't count, since he plays most minutes at PF)
TOs/gm = 13th
Blks/gm = 12th
Dbl-dbls = 6th

But hey, let's look at Assts, the most critical skillset for a SF, 2nd only to Stls, of course, and deem him "not anywhere near an all star level"

I almost hope we do trade him to a team with fans that would actually covet him for what he is.
let's take a look here...yep, these guys will do...how about...

Joe Ingles. A little light on the Steals...only half of Warren's, what was it? 'less than a steal' (.95), but he has 3X the assists at 4.2...AND he's shooting .435 from 3...never mind the fact he can't shoot from TWO (.440 FG%), averages just 75% of TRB, 28% of Blks, and 50% of Pts.

or if Stls are more important, we could go after...

Josh Richardson. He's averaging about 25% more than Warren in Stls, so he should be ideal. Plus, he averages 70% more Assts than Warren, too. Then add in his .358 vs .177 3PT%. Surely , he's much better than Warren, and closer to and All-Star than Warren. Never mind his 55% of TRB, or 65% of PPG.

Bottom line, you are trying make your point based upon 3 skillsets that are secondary in importance.

Let me ask you this. When fans, media, whoever, talk about a Forward and what he 'slashed', what numbers are placed in that 'stat' that is quoted? Stls?? Asts?? 3PT%?? No. When someone says Warren 'slashed' 21/5.5 the month of December, they are saying he scored 21 Pts and 5.5 TRB per game. Those are the 2 stats that REALLY matter...everything else is complimentary.

If Warren can't shoot 3PT shots, then we will have to rely on our other positions to provide this aspect of our offense, and with Booker, Bender or Chriss, and whatever PG/Combo Guard we employ next season, we can surely cover using that 60% of our offensive positions for our 3s.

Lets compare him with the last small forward that the Suns had that was an All-star in Shawn Marion. Does he defend? Marion does. Does he rebound high numbers nightly? Marion did. Block shots? Marion did. Great outside shooter? nope both of them are not that good. Steals? Marion. Asssists? Marion? Do the little things that make the team successful? Marion. Can Warren get better? Yes but he hasnt really added anything to his game since college where he was known as an amazing mid range shooter but nothing more. Warren is a secondary player to Booker who is a 3d player but you get more out of him if you are covering his weakness or making it easier for him to do his job. Warren doesnt defend or spread the floor to make it easier for Booker. That is why he would be an amazing 6 man but he is no where close to being an all-star level talent.

Good example. Marion was an all around all star caliber player. He defended, rebounded, put shots back, developed an ok 3 pt shot, etc.

I love Warren and watching him play, and he might be one my favorite Suns, but he's not more than an elite mid/short range and motion scorer at this point. He has had some nice rebounding games, and he has played ok defense here and there, and had 4 steals and 5 assists the other night. If he adds more to his game, and I hope that he can, he can take the next step. But he HAS to become [b]either a good defender or a good 3 pt shooter to really take the next step.[/b] -- Says who?? You?? The conventional types?? He can't be what he is great at and be great?? OK, go ahead and 'conform', if you feel you must, but don't discount others because they don't. He defends in his own way, and it's even been stated by 'those in the know' that DBPM is 'inadequate' because it doesn't capture everything' that can be. Why can't being #1 in ORB in his position be critical?? How is scoring 20pts a game 'not worthy'...because he doesn't shoot 3s to get there? That can't be handled by the PG, SG, and PF to do the spacing for a SF who is, yes, 6'9" 230?? Practically a PF himself?? If he was a full time PF would it matter?? Everyone knew he was different coming into the league; this shouldn't surprise anyone that this is how he collects his points and how he contributes. Just because you and others who deem how a SF NEEDS to play the game don't agree with his 'game', doesn't make it any less of a contribution to the win. Believe what you want, that's fine, but that doesn't make the rest of us that DON'T believe that way is the ONLY way, wrong.

Yes, many scoring metrics, outside of TS% or eFG% or raw stat #s or straight FG% will make him look good because he doesn't shoot 3s.

But he can still evolve in some of these areas. Oladipo and Tobias Harris have taken major steps and are both in all star conversations at this point while in their second contracts. I think he can add some things to his game, but these arguments with various cherry picked raw stats get redundant and begin to sound like a broken record.

Yet discounting him based upon one aspect of his game, over and over, isn't? Try looking in the mirror...

[Waylay13]

Yet discounting him based upon one aspect of his game, over and over, isn't? Try looking in the mirror...

One area of his game? 3 point shooting, rebounding, assist, steals, blocks, defense? What part of his game is outstanding out side of his close and mid range game? Is Warren a good players? Yes, i dont think that anyone is saying that he is not a valuable part of the team. The difference is that we think that his scoring isnt the end all be all of what it takes to be an all-star.

[bwgood77]

Yet discounting him based upon one aspect of his game, over and over, isn't? Try looking in the mirror...

One area of his game? 3 point shooting, rebounding, assist, steals, blocks, defense? What part of his game is outstanding out side of his close and mid range game? Is Warren a good players? Yes, i dont think that anyone is saying that he is not a valuable part of the team. The difference is that we think that his scoring isnt the end all be all of what it takes to be an all-star.

On top of that, I haven't discounted him "over and over". I haven't gotten involved in this discussion. It's too bad because I think in general TJ is underrated but with him continually to build him up to more than he is, it gets old and almost forces others to repeatedly point out his flaws since they seem to be being ignored, and the initial pro-Warren posts end up having the reverse effect then is intended.

[WeekapaugGroove]

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[Saberestar]

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