2019 season speculation including trade ideas

[Dual]

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[lilfishi22]

Spoiler:

Hollinger: With these Phoenix Suns, there are reasons to toss aside the usual doom-and-gloom skepticism

.........

Look closer at the Suns through 14 games and their warts seem minor relative to those of much of their competition. Phoenix has played one of the league’s more difficult schedules to date and outscored its opponents by over 4.0 points per game. The Suns have defeated both the Clippers and Sixers, have four double-digit wins, and rank in the top half of the league in both Offensive and Defensive Efficiency. Three-point luck, a primary driver of early-season variance, doesn’t suggest the Suns have been disproportionately fortunate.

Overall, nothing looks particularly bizarre or fluky about what they’ve done, other than stretches of insane overachievement from Baynes. After an offseason that added Rubio, Baynes, Frank Kaminsky, Dario Saric and Cameron Johnson, a fully stocked Suns roster goes 10-deep with rotation-caliber quality. Phoenix has length on the wings with Kelly Oubre and Mikal Bridges, stretch shooting with Johnson, Kaminsky and Baynes, and an all-star caliber scorer in Devin Booker. Why wouldn’t it have a decent team? (Virginia homer note: All this and they’ve yet to unleash Ty Jerome on the league!)

Looking ahead, if the Suns can just tread water to the beginning of January, a Charmin-soft month of schedule offers the opportunity to build a margin over their rivals … you know, the ones that are already behind them.

.........

Playing with a real point guard, shooting guard Devin Booker seems transformed. Statistically, you can point to a higher 3-point percentage and a lower shooting rate as a sign of his maturity. He’s taking fewer shots but better ones and scoring nearly the same amount overall (24.9 ppg vs. 26.2 ppg a year ago), but with a 65.9 True Shooting mark that blows away his 55.8 career mark.

But also, refer back to the eye test here. Gone are the 40-foot YOLO chucks and the extended sequences of defensive indifference; it can be almost jarring at times to see Booker actually deny his man the basketball on the wing. He still doesn’t rebound and he’ll never make the All-Defense team, but he doesn’t have to – if he just stays solid, the talent around him will cause enough mayhem to get stops while he fills it up at the other end.

........

For a less statistically tangible but more readily apparent reason to believe in this year’s Suns, look to Williams. Sources say he is as good a culture-setter as there is in the league. While his Xs and Os have not always blown people away, the fit here could not be more perfect – taking over a young team that lacked discipline and molding it into a vastly more professional outfit.

Williams also filled out his staff with a well-respected group — Phoenix lured rising star Darko Rajakovic from Oklahoma City (full disclosure – we tried to hire him on our staff in Memphis), brought veteran assistant Randy Ayers with him from Philly, and added gritty former players such as Steve Blake and Willie Green.

You could see Williams’ impact more when things were going badly on Tuesday in Sacramento. The Suns trailed by 26 in the second half after Rubio had to cut short his evening due to back spasms. (Watching his labored attempt to get through warm-ups, I’m amazed he played at all). Rather than wave the white flag on defense or splinter into a competition to see who could take the worst shot – a common sight a year ago – the Suns kept battling and nearly stole it, cutting the Kings’ lead to three in the final seconds before running out of time.

Williams lamented the Sun’s lapses in Thursday’s loss to the Pelicans, especially the start of the second half when New Orleans made 10 straight shots to regain control of the game.

“To not have the discipline and urgency to start both halves, especially the third,” said Williams, “That’s something (where) you don’t scheme for that … we weren’t locked into the game.”

But the bigger picture for these Suns over the first 14 games is the opposite: They have been locked in and focused, especially when Baynes has done his Superman routine. It remains to be seen if they can fight off their recent history and stay on this path for 68 more games. But through one month they’re on the right track, and a little three-game losing streak and some spilled sewage shouldn’t distract us from that.

From John Hollinger at The Athletic...there was a lot more where I put ......... but cut some out to make it shorter. Though I shouldn't post that much paid content here either, so if you haven't signed up, their content is well worth it.

Though I can see why some feel it is dumb to pay for a subscription, I used to pay for newspapers and stuff back in the day, so it's not anything new to me...and far cheaper than it was back then.

You are also helping save the planet by not having newspapers and just reading online. Go you!

I also have a subscription to the Athletic yet hardly use it, but I think it's yearly and ends in December, probably automatically resubscribes me. I check on the Suns stuff maybe once every week or two. I have to say it's a lot better quality than anything else out there. Definitely better than ESPN Insider, which I have never subbed to, but have seen people post their stuff and I gotta say I wasn't impressed.

I got a subscription to the Athletic for the first time (with a discount) because the Starters (now No Dunks) just moved to the Athletic and I wanted to support them and also because I always found the articles on there pretty interesting. That being said, there's no exclusive No Dunks content through the Athletic subscription and I really only read articles on the Suns (which BW has already generously reposted on here when there's an interesting one) so I don't really think I've gotten a ton of value from the subscription so far. That being said, they do have some of the best basketball related articles (better than the Ringer) but I just don't really read enough of the more general stuff to get my money's worth.

Oh also, I've never subscribed to ESPN Insider but a lot of their articles that I've read are pretty trash. Always felt like many of the writers there had to follow a script and weren't allowed to write really interesting pieces. I do enjoy Zach Lowe, Woj and Shelbourne though.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

From John Hollinger at The Athletic...there was a lot more where I put ......... but cut some out to make it shorter. Though I shouldn't post that much paid content here either, so if you haven't signed up, their content is well worth it.

Though I can see why some feel it is dumb to pay for a subscription, I used to pay for newspapers and stuff back in the day, so it's not anything new to me...and far cheaper than it was back then.

You are also helping save the planet by not having newspapers and just reading online. Go you!

I also have a subscription to the Athletic yet hardly use it, but I think it's yearly and ends in December, probably automatically resubscribes me. I check on the Suns stuff maybe once every week or two. I have to say it's a lot better quality than anything else out there. Definitely better than ESPN Insider, which I have never subbed to, but have seen people post their stuff and I gotta say I wasn't impressed.

I got a subscription to the Athletic for the first time (with a discount) because the Starters (now No Dunks) just moved to the Athletic and I wanted to support them and also because I always found the articles on there pretty interesting. That being said, there's no exclusive No Dunks content through the Athletic subscription and I really only read articles on the Suns (which BW has already generously reposted on here when there's an interesting one) so I don't really think I've gotten a ton of value from the subscription so far. That being said, they do have some of the best basketball related articles (better than the Ringer) but I just don't really read enough of the more general stuff to get my money's worth.

Oh also, I've never subscribed to ESPN Insider but a lot of their articles that I've read are pretty trash. Always felt like many of the writers there had to follow a script and weren't allowed to write really interesting pieces. I do enjoy Zach Lowe, Woj and Shelbourne though.

I always liked Hollinger when he was at espn years ago....I know he came up with simple "advanced" stats at the time like PER but obviously is with the times now. He always writes interesting articles though.

It would definitely be more worth it if you also followed another sport and had a die hard team (like I do with the Chargers). but Gina Mizzell (who is our best beat writer I remember) and then an occasional Bob Young article. Of course if you liked to read about other NBA teams it would be more worth it too (I don't really care about that).

[lilfishi22]

You are also helping save the planet by not having newspapers and just reading online. Go you!

I also have a subscription to the Athletic yet hardly use it, but I think it's yearly and ends in December, probably automatically resubscribes me. I check on the Suns stuff maybe once every week or two. I have to say it's a lot better quality than anything else out there. Definitely better than ESPN Insider, which I have never subbed to, but have seen people post their stuff and I gotta say I wasn't impressed.

I got a subscription to the Athletic for the first time (with a discount) because the Starters (now No Dunks) just moved to the Athletic and I wanted to support them and also because I always found the articles on there pretty interesting. That being said, there's no exclusive No Dunks content through the Athletic subscription and I really only read articles on the Suns (which BW has already generously reposted on here when there's an interesting one) so I don't really think I've gotten a ton of value from the subscription so far. That being said, they do have some of the best basketball related articles (better than the Ringer) but I just don't really read enough of the more general stuff to get my money's worth.

Oh also, I've never subscribed to ESPN Insider but a lot of their articles that I've read are pretty trash. Always felt like many of the writers there had to follow a script and weren't allowed to write really interesting pieces. I do enjoy Zach Lowe, Woj and Shelbourne though.

I always liked Hollinger when he was at espn years ago....I know he came up with simple "advanced" stats at the time like PER but obviously is with the times now. He always writes interesting articles though.

It would definitely be more worth it if you also followed another sport and had a die hard team (like I do with the Chargers). but Gina Mizzell (who is our best beat writer I remember) and then an occasional Bob Young article. Of course if you liked to read about other NBA teams it would be more worth it too (I don't really care about that).

Yeah that's the thing, it's really only now I've gotten more exposure to Hollinger (aside from his PER work) because he's always worked behind a paywall with ESPN which I was never interested in subscribing to. But I've always found his writing (when they get posted somewhere) interesting and a fairly easy read and now that he's even had high level front office experience, it's becoming an even better perspective.

I do read Gina's articles on the Suns. I love her writing. I also occasionally read some MMA related stuff but yeah I think it would be more valuable if I was interested in another major US sport.

[Revived]

I’d rather the Suns go after Davis Bertrans in the off season than re-sign Saric.

Very similar measurables but Bertrans can play the 3 if needed as well.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I was contemplating the possibilites for possible trades utilizing Tyler Johnson's expiring contract, and maybe another piece if necessary. Especially if it helps to strengthen our overall team roster longterm.

Now again, I'm not advocating for any kneejerk moves, As I actually agree with Bgood in that we really need time to actually see what we might have at full strength. For this topic, I merely would like to explore the possibilities, interests, and ideas that we all might be mulling over from time to time. So let's have fun and explore all of the more plausible or even slightly grandiose and implausible ideas regarding potential Tyler Johnson trades.

A few trades that I've pondered in my free time would be:

1- Phoenix and Orlando:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y64c4dvj.

Phoenix trades: Tyler Johnson's expiring contract, Dario Saric( ***IF necessary), and a 2022 ( Top 5) first round pick.

Phoenix recieves: Aaron Gordon, And the Orlando magic's 2nd round pick.( Which we can use on Ayo Dosunma(** IF he falls), Amyr Sylla, Or Tre Jones( Tyus Jones brother) who's the best on ball defender at the point guard position, That could afford us additional depth at that position. But the big prize is Aaron Gordon, Who I think can be an athletic marion type of defensive 4 compliment beside Ayton. ***And would be yet another awesome and athletic option in the pick and roll with Rubio.

2- Phoenix and Oklahoma:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=t8sl6qx .

Phoenix trades: Tyler Johnson's expiring contract, and Dario Saric.

Phoenix recieves: Danilo Gallinari. Phoenix likes Sarics' versatility, But cashes in on the chance to upgrade at the 4 with Gallinari being a superior floor spacing big man.

3- Phoenix and Cleveland:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=vwett78 .

Phoenix trades: Tyler Johnson's expiring contract, and a future 2nd round pick.

Phoenix recieves: Tristan Thompson.

Cleveland gains an additional asset, and some cash, Whilst opening up their frontcourt to more playing time for their young bigs. Also, They covertly strengthen their lottery odds by going younger. Now they just need to findca team to offload Love.( Hello Portland or Washington perhaps).

4- Phoenix and Chicago:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=rl4whe3 .

Phoenix trades Tyler Johnson's expiring contract and a 2021 top 5 protected first.

Phoenix recieves: Kris Dunn, Wendell Carter Jr, and Christiano Felicio( *** his salary is the price we pay for Carter Jr). Along with the first round pick.

Chicago does this because it gets them back in line with the cap, And helps them cap space wise in their efforts to create space to pursue their dream signing of Anthony Davis ( ***Hometown Hero). And he'd ( Anthony Davis) most likely take WCJrs' starting spot at center next to Markannen anyways.

Phoenix does this to beef up their frontline and point guard depth, And to offer a different option next to Ayton when needed, Whilst also giving us a strong post presence next to Ayton, improving our rebounding and rim protection a lot. He'd be great next to Ayton, And I'd be willing to overpay a bit to make the deal happen honestly.

That's all I've got for my Tyler Johnson's expiring trade scenarios and/or ideas. Any thoughts? Any trade ideas that you guys think might be good for us around the trade deadline using Tyler's expiring contract???

[Mr Puddles]

A few other ideas (smaller deals):

• Frank Kaminski and a future second rounder (or a different asset) for Davis Bertans. Bertans 8th in the league in three pointers made, and shoots at a 45% clip. He'd be an awesome stretch floor of the bench for us.
• Frank Kaminski and a future second rounder (or a different asset) for Jae Crowder. Crowder would work as a small ball 4 off the bench for us.

Marcus Morris would fit our team really well actually and it's plausible to think that the Knicks would sell him for cheap - but... **** that guy.

[lilfishi22]

Aaron Gordon has been one of the biggest d*ck teases in recent history. Remember when he had that hella start to the 2017-18 season and everyone thought he was finally starting to "get it"? He ended up with a respectable 17/9 season and then he didn't really improve last season and now this season he's off to one of his worse starts of his career.

I've always thought he was fool's gold

[ATTL]

I like the concept of aaron gordon more than actual aaron gordon.

I do like Tristan Thompson off the bench as depth. Adds toughness and atheletcism that the bench lacks.

[lilfishi22]

I like the concept of aaron gordon more than actual aaron gordon.

I do like Tristan Thompson off the bench as depth. Adds toughness and atheletcism that the bench lacks.

It's a shame his play is declining at a faster rate than his declining contract. You would think with the way his contract was structured, he'd reach a crossover point where the quality of his play would increase over time (as he develops) while the dollar value of his contract would decrease and from that point on, he would start to get paid the right amount.

I've always hated TT but I can't deny we need his athleticism and toughness off the bench. And his 3PT shooting

Watch on YouTube

[Blonde]

Suns in: Aaron Gordon
Suns out: Tyler Johnson, Dario Saric, 2nd round pick

Orlando in: Demar Derozan
Orlando out: Aaron Gordon, 2nd round pick

San Antonio in: Tyler Johnson, Dario Saric, 2 2nds
San Antonio out: Demar Derozan

Suns shore up a position of need and increase the athleticism and defense in their frontcourt. Magic balance their roster with a go-to scorer. San Antonio hits reset and gets Saric’s RFA rights, expiring contracts, and a few 2nds for an older vet which opens things up for their young backcourt players.

[sunskerr]

Aaron Gordon is apparently a pretty good defensive player. I'd like him at the 4 here. I think having a guy like Rubio or Booker to create for him, as well as being the 5th or 4th offensive option would help him tremendously, as he'd be able to focus on just getting simple baskets and playing defense.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Aaron Gordon has been one of the biggest d*ck teases in recent history. Remember when he had that hella start to the 2017-18 season and everyone thought he was finally starting to "get it"? He ended up with a respectable 17/9 season and then he didn't really improve last season and now this season he's off to one of his worse starts of his career.

I've always thought he was fool's gold

He very well could be, However the good side to that is that he'd currently be a cheaper get for us , And perhaps Rubio can make him look amazing as a roll man? I mean, Has he( or the magic) for that matter, ever really had a quality point guard with passing skills like Rubio. Overall he's still pretty good defensively, and his athleticism is incredible.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

His three point shooting and perimeter shooting looks pretty good here too.

Watch on YouTube

And apparently it IS possible to actually guard the perimeter too! He should pass this along to our Suns players, as they haven't seemed to get that message yet.

I'd honestly love to see him in the pick in roll with Rubio. Or see Rubio tossing lobs to him and Oubre, and Ayton. .Also during those times of the game when we seem to lack energy and get passive, Just imagine how much some of his monster dunks would get us energized. And both Aaron and Oubre and Ayton could all feed off of each other's energy too. Along with the rest of the team. He'd be an amazing addition to the Valley boys core obviously, Considering he also played college ball for Arizona too.

And finally, Let's just consider that aside from Oubre, and occasionally Ayton, We're not likely to see such athleticism and/or energizing dunks or even blocked shots from either Saric or Kaminsky. So if we could nab him for any kind of discount, We should definitely inquire, Anf try to get something done I would think man.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I like the concept of aaron gordon more than actual aaron gordon.

I do like Tristan Thompson off the bench as depth. Adds toughness and atheletcism that the bench lacks.

It's a shame his play is declining at a faster rate than his declining contract. You would think with the way his contract was structured, he'd reach a crossover point where the quality of his play would increase over time (as he develops) while the dollar value of his contract would decrease and from that point on, he would start to get paid the right amount.

I've always hated TT but I can't deny we need his athleticism and toughness off the bench. And his 3PT shooting

Watch on YouTube

Hopefully he wouldn't be forced to handle the ball in late game situations here, What with Rubio, Booker, Oubre and Ayton all being late clock scoring options. My primary interest in him, is in his strong rebounding skillset and tough post defense and decent rim protection. And the fact that he's an expiring for nearly the same amount that Ty Johnson's expiring is doesn't hurt either as we'd get to try him out whilst adding veteran depth to our frontcourt. And then we can choose to either let him expire or resign him at a more reasonable rate( should he perform well).

His defense is better than what we currently have available to our roster too.

Watch on YouTube

When's the last time that we've had a defensive player who would actually contest and block a shot in the post. Saric and Kaminsky are good shooters to be sure, But I'm not sure they can even get off the ground with their athleticism honestly.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Suns in: Aaron Gordon
Suns out: Tyler Johnson, Dario Saric, 2nd round pick

Orlando in: Demar Derozan
Orlando out: Aaron Gordon, 2nd round pick

San Antonio in: Tyler Johnson, Dario Saric, 2 2nds
San Antonio out: Demar Derozan

Suns shore up a position of need and increase the athleticism and defense in their backcourt. Magic balance their roster with a go-to scorer. San Antonio hits reset and gets Saric’s RFA rights, expiring contracts, and a few 2nds for an older vet which opens things up for their young backcourt players.

Damn fine job man! I like it.

[hollywood6964]

I like the concept of aaron gordon more than actual aaron gordon.

I do like Tristan Thompson off the bench as depth. Adds toughness and atheletcism that the bench lacks.

Yeah, someone like that. He can actually rebound the **** ball, which is what I'm more worried about. The only good rebounding big on the team is ayton.

[hollywood6964]

I like the concept of aaron gordon more than actual aaron gordon.

I do like Tristan Thompson off the bench as depth. Adds toughness and atheletcism that the bench lacks.

Yeah, someone like that. He can actually rebound the **** ball, which is what I'm more worried about. The only good rebounding big on the team is ayton.

[Fo-Real]

We would have to give up actual value to get Gordon, if he is even available. A salary dump in Johnson, plus Saric's value and even adding a second round pick is not incentive enough for them I dont think. Although Saric did finally have a good game last night.

[hollywood6964]

We would have to give up actual value to get Gordon, if he is even available. A salary dump in Johnson, plus Saric's value and even adding a second round pick is not incentive enough for them I dont think. Although Saric did finally have a good game last night.

Yeah, probably not. Saric is really a bench player on a good team.

Johnson has no real position, and just not much value. At best he's a combo guard off the bench that catches n shoots. Too slow to guard ones, too small to guard most 2's, and when he gets switched off, he's really small.

Gordon is nothing special, but he's fool's gold for anyone thinking he's going to be a lot better in the future. People need to stop looking at "only 24!", and start looking at he's been in the league for 4 years, now on his fifth. Not many guys get significantly better even after year 3. Maybe their role changes, or the system, usage n players around them facilitate a better stat outcome, but they typically don't get a lot better.

[spanishninja]

We would have to give up actual value to get Gordon, if he is even available. A salary dump in Johnson, plus Saric's value and even adding a second round pick is not incentive enough for them I dont think. Although Saric did finally have a good game last night.

this can theoretically depend on how bad the magic get while Vuc is out. if they find themselves cratering i wonder if they just prepare to retool.