Official Trade Thread: Two drink minimum

[bwgood77]

There are very few superstars who add so little to this team as Carmelo. Anyone you pair him with at the other forward spot becomes redundant next to Melo. He doesn't make us any better defensively or on the boards, where we're weak. TJ could be every bit as good a scorer in two years' time. It's just not a good fit.

Yeah, no Melo. Too expensive, too much of a black hole who is a high volume shooter who is overrated. He has never won a damn thing and can't even get a team into the playoffs in the weak east. Stars get their teams into the playoffs regardless. He has past his prime and we are not going to win anything major for the next couple of years. Don't sacrifice future for trying to win now. Too shortsighted. That's all.

i dunno if thats fair

Yeah, I was excited about the guy coming out of college. Not so much now, even if he was a 10 million dollar guy, but at his salary, seriously, what is the point? Can we beat OKC when healthy? GS? Lets let our players hit their prime and use our picks and use the cap space wisely and start becoming a contender in 2-3 years when SA is falling off (it looks like they might already be) and Memphis, Houston with an aging Howard, etc. We will be right there in the playoff hunt as a top four seed if we use our draft picks wisely, Len and Warren develop nicely, our guards hit their prime, and some teams decline. In 2 years we could be close....OKC if healthy is going to be there for quite some time. GS has a couple of good young players but I don't know how they will age. NO doesn't seem to utilizing their cap room and salaries well (a situation we would be in if we got Melo).

I think their may only be a couple of teams (OKC and Portland) who have a chance at being better than us (but we would be right there with Portland) if we make the right choices. Making moves to try to get us elite immediately is shortsighted....lets enjoy watching the team grow. THAT is exciting to me. Not getting an aging vet who kills our chances to add good young players, yet won't let us get past the second round, even if we could get there (and that would be a tall order with the west now...even getting out of the first round would be a very tall order right now).

The time to make a big move is next year....after getting out draft picks...and even if we don't get the LA pick this year, we have a very good chance of getting it next year when it is only top 3 protected and LA is unlikely to be better with an aging Kobe...even if they are ok, it is probably still a top 7-8 pick.

[NavLDO]

If Orlando doesn't wanna pay Tobias Harris the max this summer, I'd like the Suns to look into acquiring him. I'm sure Magic would prefer to get assets for him than lose him for nothing.

I like him, but they will pay him. They have mostly rookie contracts and they are rebuilding...why the hell would they let him go? On another note, did you see Alex Smith is out Sunday? That is huge in one respect, but SD always seems to crap their pants when things look easy....and they didn't exactly play well against KC in their win and get in game last year despite playing backups. I guess it wasn't win and get in though in hindsight....they needed a few teams to lose and miraculously a couple of teams lost games they would have thought they should win. Rivers typically plays his best when his back is against the wall though, so hopefully they pull it off.

In some ways I'd love them to beat Pitt (if SD makes the playoffs), as they have been one team they have had tough times against. I have a feeling Cincy will finally win a playoff game this year too...they seem tougher. But that SD D is looking good. Just wish Keenan Allen was healthy (and Ryan Mathews) but Inman looks like the real deal.

Slow down there, slappy. Let's just hope we don't meet until we have to, say, the AFC Championship, and we'll readdress then! I actually like SD to some degree, mostly due to my respect for Rivers--probably one of the most unheralded, yet praise-deserving QBs in the NFL. Good luck against the Chiefs...hope you appreciate what we did last week for you!

But back on point, yes, Harris would be a nice get. That would set us up with the #13, 14, 19, and 60 overall picks from the 2011 class. That 2011 class is looking like one of the better ones of recent history, at least from late lottery on, with the Morri, Harris, Leonard, Vucevic, Shumpert, DMo, Faried, Mirotic, and on...I know Marcus looks like the outlier in that group, but after going 6 of 7 from 3 last night, 9 rebounds, and 20 pts, doesn't seem right to judge him negatively at this juncture.

[Revived]

Marcus is just way too inconsistent. Plus he's one of the biggest ball hogs on the team.

[Zelaznyrules]

Marcus is just way too inconsistent. Plus he's one of the biggest ball hogs on the team.

His brother disagrees. And btw, his brother is looking for you.

I wonder if his selfishness isn't more the result of how the coach wants him to play though? He's a much better player this year than last and I like a lot of things about his game but he has too much Gerald Green in him. He doesn't seem to understand that a well defended, fall away 17 footer early in the shot clock is rarely a good decision. We put up with it from Green because there really is no such thing as a bad shot for him but Marcus doesn't have Green's game. Number 15 seems to be a smart player in other ways so he really needs to learn bad shot from good shot.

[Revived]

Marcus is just way too inconsistent. Plus he's one of the biggest ball hogs on the team.

His brother disagrees. And btw, his brother is looking for you.

I wonder if his selfishness isn't more the result of how the coach wants him to play though? He's a much better player this year than last and I like a lot of things about his game but he has too much Gerald Green in him. He doesn't seem to understand that a well defended, fall away 17 footer early in the shot clock is rarely a good decision. We put up with it from Green because there really is no such thing as a bad shot for him but Marcus doesn't have Green's game. Number 15 seems to be a smart player in other ways so he really needs to learn bad shot from good shot.

I like his brother...a lot. But him? No.

I don't like Green either. I don't like guys with such awful shot selection even if they get hot from time to time.

Thing about Marcus is that he's one of those guys who doesn't know how to move without the ball. He doesn't cut enough and isn't quick enough to make smart cuts anyway. Defensively he's mediocre at best.

[NavLDO]

Marcus is just way too inconsistent. Plus he's one of the biggest ball hogs on the team.

His brother disagrees. And btw, his brother is looking for you.

I wonder if his selfishness isn't more the result of how the coach wants him to play though? He's a much better player this year than last and I like a lot of things about his game but he has too much Gerald Green in him. He doesn't seem to understand that a well defended, fall away 17 footer early in the shot clock is rarely a good decision. We put up with it from Green because there really is no such thing as a bad shot for him but Marcus doesn't have Green's game. Number 15 seems to be a smart player in other ways so he really needs to learn bad shot from good shot.

I think you may be right to a degree. Plus, I find it hard to get on a guy that is averaging almost four 3Pt shots a game and shooting 43.4% from behind the arc. Yes, it would be nice if he'd quit with the long contested 2s, but you take the good with the bad, and I'll gladly take that 43% 3pt avg, thank you very much! Even before last nights 6/7, he was still above 40% for the season, and 39.7% over the last season and a half. We want a stretch-4, well he can be that guy, potentially. I know you can't base that off stats alone, but what can't Marcus do that would be required of him in that role?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Marcus has played great this year in many respects, and he's only gotten better as the season's gone along.

[Safety Pickle]

There are very few superstars who add so little to this team as Carmelo. Anyone you pair him with at the other forward spot becomes redundant next to Melo. He doesn't make us any better defensively or on the boards, where we're weak. TJ could be every bit as good a scorer in two years' time. It's just not a good fit.

Yeah, no Melo. Too expensive, too much of a black hole who is a high volume shooter who is overrated. He has never won a damn thing and can't even get a team into the playoffs in the weak east. Stars get their teams into the playoffs regardless. He has past his prime and we are not going to win anything major for the next couple of years. Don't sacrifice future for trying to win now. Too shortsighted. That's all.

He led his Denver squad to the playoffs every year he was there and took them to the WCF in one year. If that doesn't count as winning, them we don't have a single player on our team that was won anything, even our golden-boy Dragic.

Also you wouldn't take him even if you only had to pay him 10 mil/year? You wouldn't pay him 10 mil a year to put up 24/6/3 on 46% shooting? Ok

[letsgosuns]

When you compare Kobe Bryant's career numbers versus Carmelo Anthony's career numbers, they are virtually identical. They are literally so close it is nuts. Yet when I think of them, I find them to be nothing alike. Kobe represents everything about perseverance and the desire to be a champion and doing whatever it takes to win. Carmelo Anthony to me only represents a great scorer but not a great all around player. He is really good, but when a team plays Kobe Bryant and he is on, he impossible to stop. I have never felt that way about Carmelo Anthony. I never watched a Suns team play him where I said wow, there is no way to stop that guy, he is unstoppable. Do not get me wrong, Carmelo is a great scorer, I just do not put him up there with the true superstars of the league. I consider the true superstars to be Bryant, James, Durant, the Spurs main players, and Nowitzki. I put Carmelo in the next tier of stars along with Harden, Curry, Paul, Griffin, etc.

That being said, the Suns have no superstars and I understand some fans saying hey who cares, the Suns have missed the playoffs for four years, the team needs a superstar regardless of who it is. Well that is not always the best way to go about things. Carmelo Anthony could not lead the Knicks to the playoffs in an absolutely horrendous Eastern Conference last year. This year, the Knicks are currently 5-26 which is good for one of the worst records in basketball. Is that all his fault? No. However he sure deserves a major part of the blame. He is a pure isolation player and that is something the Suns do not need. On top of that, he is dealing with injury concerns, is already 30 years old, and his contract is beyond massive. If the Suns trade for him and it does not work out, it could destroy the franchise's situation for years. Becoming the Knicks of the West is the last thing this team needs.

If the Suns actually were considering trading for him, they do not have to match his 22 million dollar price tag since they have 6 million available in cap space. Although I honestly think Carmelo would block any trade. I do not think he wants to leave New York under any circumstances and proposing any trade is probably a moot point.

[Cutter]

I would be stunned if the Suns seriously went after Melo. I want no part of him or his contract.

[Zelaznyrules]

I would be stunned if the Suns seriously went after Melo. I want no part of him or his contract.

Part of him would be okay. Maybe the left leg? But yeah, I definitely do not want Carmelo. If we had a mature roster and Carmelo was available and wouldn't cost us part of that roster, maybe. But not now. Getting him wouldn't do much for us in the present and it would seriously diminish our future.

[Revived]

I don't know what's funnier, people actually say no they don't want Melo or people who think that Melo is actually available.

[Zelaznyrules]

I don't know what's funnier, people actually say no they don't want Melo or people who think that Melo is actually available.

Why? Why is it funny that some people don't think he'd be a good addition? Would we be better if we swapped Melo and Keef? I sure think so, even with Carmelo's tendency to dominate the ball. But he'd eat up our cap room and we'd have to give up a boatload to get him. Add him to our team and we are better. Replace several of our pieces with him and we're just another team that's over the cap and going nowhere. As for being available, reading tea leaves isn't one of my strengths. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't - I have no clue.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I suggested Paul George as a target elsewhere. Any idea if he's available? Shouldn't he be?

Various arrangements of assets would work under the cap, but I imagine TJ would be the centerpiece of any deal from the Pacers' perspective.

[asudevil]

I don't know what's funnier, people actually say no they don't want Melo or people who think that Melo is actually available.

I'd take Melo as a player, and probably almost everyone here would. I would not take Melo's $22+mil starting salary. Its a cap killer, and he'll be 35 when its done. This is the part that's scary. And he'll be making almost $28mil then.

Part of me questions his desire to win and leadership. That's not a HUGE problem with a guy who's making less than $12mil per year, but if you question that in a guy who's making max max money, its a red flag. But it could just be him having lost faith in the NY management, where there is no real reason to go all out when you know the team that your surrounded with is impossible to win with.

If NY was smart they'd look to trade Melo. Next year they'll have a chunk of cap space, and they'll probably look at adding a max player. And after that they'll surround the two max guy with garbage and be a .500 team or worse for the next 4 years. The Knicks have perpetuated this cycle for the past 15 years, and it never gets old.

[Kerrsed]

I suggested Paul George as a target elsewhere. Any idea if he's available? Shouldn't he be?

Various arrangements of assets would work under the cap, but I imagine TJ would be the centerpiece of any deal from the Pacers' perspective.

I would be more than welcome to a PG trade, but honestly, i dont see Indiana doing anything until they see how well he comes back from his injury. Word is PG thinks he can comeback before the season is over, yet the Pacers want to hold him out the entire year. Here he is shooting jumpers pre-game from about 2 weeks ago:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b0QsBa9Sso[/youtube]

Trading PG is a real risk for both teams. PG at his best is a top 10 player. You dont trade players like that. If they traded him (even for valuable assets like Dragic/Lakers pick etc.) and he were to comeback 100%, the fans would revolt and the FO would have egg all over their face.

As for the Suns, that injury was bad. REAL BAD! Lets take a look at it again:

Spoiler:

How many players have had an injury that bad and comeback to playing at the same level that they were pre-injury? I really struggle to think of any. If we were to trade the assets that it would take for Indiana to even think about trading him and we end up with a broken player that never recovers, our franchise would be screwed for the foreseeable future. Remember Shaun Livingston? Thats the closest comparison (injury wise) that i can think of.

Now if he comes back and plays even 90% of what he did, that would be a complete win for our FO. PG was an absolute stud and would have been a top 5 player in the league if not for the injury. He would help bolster our team on both the offensive and defensive levels.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMqV3Uq0aiQ[/youtube]

It would take alot to get the Pacers to even consider trading George.

Im sure it would start at Dragic/Warren/Green/LAL 1st/Maybe our 1st as well. Thats a big price to pay for a bit of a mystery. If it works out, you have a championship contending team with a top 10 player. If it doesnt work, we just gave up our future and best assets, while being saddled with PG's very large contract for the next 4 years ($17M/$18M/$19M/$20.5M).

[thamadkant]

Butler (Bulls guard) is putting up Paul George numbers this season... 21ppg 6rpg 3apg 1.5spg... 48% FG.

He may get offered MAX, but I dont think he is worth MAX... but certainly he is playing very well. If he can maintain that all season he may be getting 14-15 million dollar range contracts.

[Zelaznyrules]

Butler (Bulls guard) is putting up Paul George numbers this season... 21ppg 6rpg 3apg 1.5spg... 48% FG.

He may get offered MAX, but I dont think he is worth MAX... but certainly he is playing very well. If he can maintain that all season he may be getting 14-15 million dollar range contracts.

Considering that he is a strong two way player, I'd say his current play equals or exceeds Paul's best. But this is the first time in his career where his offense has equaled his defense so far that reason, I'd also be a bit leery. I'd probably pay him but it would be risky.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I suggested Paul George as a target elsewhere. Any idea if he's available? Shouldn't he be?

Various arrangements of assets would work under the cap, but I imagine TJ would be the centerpiece of any deal from the Pacers' perspective.

I would be more than welcome to a PG trade, but honestly, i dont see Indiana doing anything until they see how well he comes back from his injury. Word is PG thinks he can comeback before the season is over, yet the Pacers want to hold him out the entire year. Here he is shooting jumpers pre-game from about 2 weeks ago:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b0QsBa9Sso[/youtube]

Trading PG is a real risk for both teams. PG at his best is a top 10 player. You dont trade players like that. If they traded him (even for valuable assets like Dragic/Lakers pick etc.) and he were to comeback 100%, the fans would revolt and the FO would have egg all over their face.

As for the Suns, that injury was bad. REAL BAD! Lets take a look at it again:

Spoiler:

How many players have had an injury that bad and comeback to playing at the same level that they were pre-injury? I really struggle to think of any. If we were to trade the assets that it would take for Indiana to even think about trading him and we end up with a broken player that never recovers, our franchise would be screwed for the foreseeable future. Remember Shaun Livingston? Thats the closest comparison (injury wise) that i can think of.

Now if he comes back and plays even 90% of what he did, that would be a complete win for our FO. PG was an absolute stud and would have been a top 5 player in the league if not for the injury. He would help bolster our team on both the offensive and defensive levels.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMqV3Uq0aiQ[/youtube]

It would take alot to get the Pacers to even consider trading George.

Im sure it would start at Dragic/Warren/Green/LAL 1st/Maybe our 1st as well. Thats a big price to pay for a bit of a mystery. If it works out, you have a championship contending team with a top 10 player. If it doesnt work, we just gave up our future and best assets, while being saddled with PG's very large contract for the next 4 years ($17M/$18M/$19M/$20.5M).

Well that's the whole thing, though - where does an asset like PG, unknowns and all, make more sense? Here or Indiana? PG is a very good player, but that team is not positioned to put a good team around him. His talent and that team's lack of talent should combine for the type of mediocrity that is a death knell for teams and their players.

We're close. A lot closer than the Pacers. A lot of our key guys are in PG's age range - including Bled and the Morris twins. Dragic actually would be unlikely to be traded to the Pacers in that scenario, I would think, because he'd be more likely to sign with a contending Suns team than a rebuilding Pacers team.

If I'm the Pacers, with my utter lack of perimeter talent, I'm eyeballing TJ, Ennis, Goodwin, and even IT. The Lakers pick, too. But I think we keep at least one of those assets I just listed. I'd like to keep IT.

If PG comes back this season, wouldn't he prefer to do come back to a playoff team?

[BurningHeart]

I don't know what's funnier, people actually say no they don't want Melo or people who think that Melo is actually available.

I'd take Melo as a player, and probably almost everyone here would. I would not take Melo's $22+mil starting salary. Its a cap killer, and he'll be 35 when its done. This is the part that's scary. And he'll be making almost $28mil then.

I wouldn't take him as a player either.

Carmelo Anthony is the antithesis of Phoenix Suns basketball.