Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

[thamadkant]

Ingram to Suns would be awesome, long term combo forward next to Booker, Jackson, Ayton and a veteran PG

[AtheJ415]

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Because with Kawhi gone the Spurs are no longer in win now mode. They are in rebuild mode and looking 3+ years down the road when GS is no more and Lebron retires. Around that time a team built around Ball/Ingram and whoever the Spurs draft in the next 3 years would start their playoff contention and road to the Finals under Messina.

These super teams have a shelf life thats running out. Age and price tag takes its toll.

Lebron - 34 years old
Chris Paul - 33 years old
Paul George - 28 years old

I don't think there's any way in hell the Spurs would even want anything to do with Lonzo and his family. They are a super conservative, tight-lipped organization that won't want their starting PG creating rap videos and dissing fellow teammates while his father criticizes Pop. I can see this trade happening around some others, like Ingram, future picks, and Kuzma, but not Ball.

Also, Randle has no value as a RFA. They could just sign him once Kawhi is moved.

[AtheJ415]

I’m still calling on Kawhi. Sell him on the Ayton/Booker duo with cap space/picks to use and being right next to LA (with some assurances of re-signing of course).

Maybe someone beats us out, but it would be dumb not to try. He’s too good.

You do it next year in FA. You don't trade a boatload of assets now with no signed contract possible/no ability to extend until next year.

Keep your pick. Draft Doncic or Ayton. Consolidate later assets for a 2nd top 10 pick or a really good vet with upside, and then convince Booker to put off the extension for 1 year with an ironclad promise that he will get the full max (unlike what Utah did with Hayward when they made him go shop the market as an RFA). Go to Kawhi next offseason and pitch him then. If he says yes, use what assets remain to dump the salary to sign him. Then resign Booker. That is the best case scenario here.

[AtheJ415]

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wrote about this earlier in the thread

the suns team would have a core of Booker, Warren, Chriss, Bender, Ball, Ayton and Jackson

it would also have 40+m of dead space in Chandler, Dudley, and Deng. 55 in Knight stinks. or you stretch guys and waste long term cap space on Chandler or Dudley to stretch him

it would mean releasing Williams, Ulis and renouncing Payton, Len and PEters

it would mean one Booker is signed - the Suns can do hack squat because of Deng next summer

so that's your team -

I would rather give the Lakers a first round pick for Kuzma to flip to a third team with a Laker pick and say the "Hawks" or "Pacres" get two first rounders and Deng

Not quite. I mean that is our team until the contracts come up, but they are all gone in 2 years. Then you should have good space. And frankly, while we will be trying to win more the next couple of seasons, this probably won't be a playoff team absent landing 2 superstars. The team is still too young to win now. It is just that we should be out of the outright tanking mode and back into trying to maximize our talent mode.

[AtheJ415]

Ingram to Suns would be awesome, long term combo forward next to Booker, Jackson, Ayton and a veteran PG

It would, but since he's the best player in the trade aside from Kawhi no idea how we would get him. Only way is if SA didn't want him for some reason or if LA is so desperate to clear Deng and cannot find another suitor that they have to attach him.

[thamadkant]

McD should ring Pop and Buford anyways...

The point is, Spurs should NOT cave into Kawhi's demands and make a super team that will be Spurs torn on their butts.

I think Suns should offer..
- Bender OR Chriss
- Dudley (expiring)
- 2018 Suns Pick 16
- 2018 Suns Pick 31
- 2019 Bucks First Round Pick
- Swap picks 2019, which ever is higher


Suns then take a chance that Lakers and Clippers are maxed out cap wise... and Kawhi re-signs as Suns can offer him the most money!
Phoenix is half way between San Antonio and San Diego.... which is his home town.... and its a few hours drive really! He could even live half way and technically be in proximity with San Diego and Phoenix!

[NTB]

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[TOO]

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**** that.

[bwgood77]

I’m still calling on Kawhi. Sell him on the Ayton/Booker duo with cap space/picks to use and being right next to LA (with some assurances of re-signing of course).

Maybe someone beats us out, but it would be dumb not to try. He’s too good.

You do it next year in FA. You don't trade a boatload of assets now with no signed contract possible/no ability to extend until next year.

Keep your pick. Draft Doncic or Ayton. Consolidate later assets for a 2nd top 10 pick or a really good vet with upside, and then convince Booker to put off the extension for 1 year with an ironclad promise that he will get the full max (unlike what Utah did with Hayward when they made him go shop the market as an RFA). Go to Kawhi next offseason and pitch him then. If he says yes, use what assets remain to dump the salary to sign him. Then resign Booker. That is the best case scenario here.

This scenario would also mean we couldn't sign anyone this summer that extended past next summer, or make a trade that gave us more salary.

[bwgood77]

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**** that.

Yeah, that would be crazy unless they had a clean physical and had an agreed upon extension with him. That way they could extend him and Book.

But I'd still rather just take Ayton. And I'm sure McD probably would too.

If we traded the #1 pick for him and then lost him in FA next year it would be one of the more brutal blows in Suns history, and we've had some brutal ones.

[thamadkant]

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this will not get traction without Kawhi and his damn uncle agreeing and putting down on paper that he will re-sign.

Suns getting Carlos Boozer'd giving up Pick 1 for 1 year rental would fold this franchise

[AtheJ415]

I’m still calling on Kawhi. Sell him on the Ayton/Booker duo with cap space/picks to use and being right next to LA (with some assurances of re-signing of course).

Maybe someone beats us out, but it would be dumb not to try. He’s too good.

You do it next year in FA. You don't trade a boatload of assets now with no signed contract possible/no ability to extend until next year.

Keep your pick. Draft Doncic or Ayton. Consolidate later assets for a 2nd top 10 pick or a really good vet with upside, and then convince Booker to put off the extension for 1 year with an ironclad promise that he will get the full max (unlike what Utah did with Hayward when they made him go shop the market as an RFA). Go to Kawhi next offseason and pitch him then. If he says yes, use what assets remain to dump the salary to sign him. Then resign Booker. That is the best case scenario here.

This scenario would also mean we couldn't sign anyone this summer that extended past next summer, or make a trade that gave us more salary.

I know. But frankly I think it is worth it and our best chance of contending for a title quickly, and I don't see anybody this offseason who is max worthy to begin with. I have always maintained that next offseason has a lot better options and we should put off Book's extension knowing that. Reality imo is that we aren't making the playoffs in the next 2 years without adding both a Kawhi -type talent AND the type of talent our top pick and a 2nd top 10 pick would bring (so adding Ayton plus one of the other top 8 guys or so). Our best chance to get a Kawhi type talent without gutting the team or trading one of our 3 best cornerstones (Book, Jackson, this year's top pick), is via next year's FA class.

Regardless of what happens this offseason, even if we add Kawhi and kept Ayton, this team is just too young. They won't make the playoffs and he would leave. I think showing improvement without him would be a better option than adding him and still missing the playoffs. I think we'll show signs of improvement this upcoming year and end up in the 8-13 pick range. The following year I think we'll get closer, probably 10-14 range. If we add Kawhi in that offseason maybe we could jump to 8, but at that point Kawhi would be coming knowing that team is still young and that it would contend through the middle and later years of his deal, not year 1.

[matt131]

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this will not get traction without Kawhi and his damn uncle agreeing and putting down on paper that he will re-sign.

Suns getting Carlos Boozer'd giving up Pick 1 for 1 year rental would fold this franchise

of course he should look into it. doesn't mean we should do it. but we should honestly inquire about any player we think could help the team.

[thamadkant]

I think Suns should offer assets NOW if they want Kawhi, because its much more complicated next season and it will affect Booker... you want him inked ASAP.

The thing is... Popovic will not trade with rivals or playoff threats... Suns are perceived to be a rebuilding franchise, Pop and Buford may want the future Spurs to be full of "Spurs-like" players, hence future picks will be preferred over established players who does not fit the Parker/Ginobili/Duncan/Robinson mold which suits Spurs organisation.


I would offer young players that Suns dont need and picks.... except Pick 1 this season. I would offer pick swap in 2019 and give them Bucks pick.... and maybe another Pick swap in 2020 and 2021....

Really sell them the idea that the Suns will be a losing team (lol, may not be hard) and those picks are lottery for the next 2-3 years.

Kawhi if he sees Suns improving and with assets and youth getting better, will likely stay.

Suns are the 4th biggest city in America and its rather close to San Diego where he would probably relocate permanently... Phoenix is a few hours drive.

[MathiasPW]

Lebron needs catch and shoot players to get his numbers and ideal one on ones...

Kawhi is not a catch and shoot player, when he averaged 25ppg and became a top 3 player he was used as an iso player at the elbows and baseline.... Kawhi would need to sacrifice a lot to play next to Lebron.

George too.... but with George he's got experience playing with a similar player in Westbrook. So he knows playing with Lebron is just a better version of playing next to Westbrook.

Having all 3 on the same team however...


the defense would be GOAT level though.... perimeter wise... itll be similar to Pippen and Jordan suffocating wing players back in the old days

Mario Chalmers, Dwayne Wade, Ray Allen and Chris Bosh were Lebrons starting teammates when he was a champ with the Heat in 2013 (only 5 years ago!).

One of them was a catch and shoot threat (maybe one of the best ever at that, truth be said). And the bench didn't get much better with Norris Cole, Shane Battier and Chris Andersen.

This is all pre-Warriors, of course, but to reduce Lebron's impact to "he needs shooters around him or else" is a painfull simpfication.

He would work with Kawhi and George just fine.

[thamadkant]

Lebron needs catch and shoot players to get his numbers and ideal one on ones...

Kawhi is not a catch and shoot player, when he averaged 25ppg and became a top 3 player he was used as an iso player at the elbows and baseline.... Kawhi would need to sacrifice a lot to play next to Lebron.

George too.... but with George he's got experience playing with a similar player in Westbrook. So he knows playing with Lebron is just a better version of playing next to Westbrook.

Having all 3 on the same team however...


the defense would be GOAT level though.... perimeter wise... itll be similar to Pippen and Jordan suffocating wing players back in the old days

Mario Chalmers, Dwayne Wade, Ray Allen and Chris Bosh were Lebrons starting teammates when he was a champ with the Heat in 2013 (only 5 years ago!).

One of them was a catch and shoot threat (maybe one of the best ever at that, truth be said). And the bench didn't get much better with Norris Cole, Shane Battier and Chris Andersen.

This is all pre-Warriors, of course, but to reduce Lebron's impact to "he needs shooters around him or else" is a painfull simpfication.

He would work with Kawhi just fine.

Wade and Lebron handled that team... Bosh was relegated to be a stretch 4 primarily.


But Lebron has evolved since then.... the NBA has found the blue print for players like Lebron.. basically the NBA 2K MyPlayer model!

Where the best player who can handle and create shots and plays.... control the ball 80% of the time in most of the minutes they're on court.... like Westbrook, Harden... and Lebron of the last 2-3 years. Look at their stats assists, rebounds are up... and their team's 3pt makes and attempts are up too... its the most efficient way to put up numbers for players like them.


That Heat team still had 3 jump shooters primarily with Wade and Bron also....

[Kerrsed]

We need to just stay the course, dont even think about Kawhi, and just keep focused on getting another top 5 pick.

As i said before, i think Clippers could put together one hell of an offer for San Antonio, and that would help us out a ton, as they would no longer have the pieces to compete with us trying to move up in the draft. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

[Jwetz83]

The Suns should strike now. If they get Kawhi, then it’s more likely they can get another free agent to come.


I’m ready to overpay, the rebuild this team. The following is only if Jones gets Labron to join the team. Everyone is talking about George , Kawhi , James. But let’s say it’s booker , Kawhi , James

Suns trade Knight , Warren , 1st pick and 2021 Miami 1st

Spurs trade Kawhi

Suns pay through the roof but also clear space to bring Labron in


Suns Trade Jackson, Chriss, 2019 1st, mil 2019 1st, Chandler, Dudley.

Hornets trade Walker , Williams , Hermangomez

Hornets would be inclined to do this because they get cap relief next year and players to build around.

Yes suns over pay again, but they are going all in


So with all those moves the Suns would have 50-55 mil in contracts.

Sign Labron to the max and they still have some room to add vets.


Walker
Booker
Kawhi
Labron
Free agent ( favors) Not sure if the suns could fit him

Bench

Pick 16
Pick 31
Bender
Williams
Daniels.
Hermongomez


And in this scenario , the suns over paid in both deals.

[Kerrsed]

The Suns should strike now. If they get Kawhi, then it’s more likely they can get another free agent to come.


I’m ready to overpay, the rebuild this team. The following is only if Jones gets Labron to join the team. Everyone is talking about George , Kawhi , James. But let’s say it’s booker , Kawhi , James

Suns trade Knight , Warren , 1st pick and 2021 Miami 1st

Spurs trade Kawhi

Suns pay through the roof but also clear space to bring Labron in


Suns Trade Jackson, Chriss, 2019 1st, mil 2019 1st, Chandler, Dudley.

Hornets trade Walker , Williams , Hermangomez

Hornets would be inclined to do this because they get cap relief next year and players to build around.

Yes suns over pay again, but they are going all in


So with all those moves the Suns would have 50-55 mil in contracts.

Sign Labron to the max and they still have some room to add vets.


Walker
Booker
Kawhi
Labron
Free agent ( favors) Not sure if the suns could fit him

Bench

Pick 16
Pick 31
Bender
Williams
Daniels.
Hermongomez


And in this scenario , the suns over paid in both deals.

[GeraldsGreenery]

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He's Baaaack