ImageImageImage

2019 season speculation including trade ideas

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

Will Booker make the all-star team this year?

Yes
38
49%
No
39
51%
 
Total votes: 77

sasquatchBob
Pro Prospect
Posts: 981
And1: 1,535
Joined: Oct 07, 2014
     

Re: 2019 season speculation 

Post#1581 » by sasquatchBob » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:50 pm

Revived wrote:I’d rather the Suns go after Davis Bertrans in the off season than re-sign Saric.

Very similar measurables but Bertrans can play the 3 if needed as well.


His defense is not as good as Saric's. Bertans is a better 3 point shooter but Saric is a better player overall.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,175
And1: 61,016
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1582 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:58 pm

I doubt Aaron Gordon is traded any time soon, particularly with Vucevic now out a month. Now he's off to a bad start, so they could want to trade him, but it's likely just a bad start to the season....however, if, for some reason it wasn't, he doesn't appear to be an upgrade, and shoots 28% from 3. Even his best year was under 35%, where Saric's best year is over 39% and he's just a tad under that this year.

Saric is a better fit next to Ayton.

Now I am not a huge fan of Saric, and if Gordon is a good player his contract isn't all that bad, but if they did want to get out of it, would they want to have to pay Saric? Now of course they could say, like I am saying, that Saric is the better 3 pt shooter and is better, and could be cheaper.

I just personally don't know that Gordon is the answer on a team with Ayton, and especially if we keep Baynes.

As far as a guy like Tristan Thompson, I kind of like Diallo, and would like to see how he continues to do in our other C's absence. He could be a very cheap nice option to keep, and maybe a steal. I'd like to see if he can improve his rebounding.

I want to keep some consistency for once on the team, and continuity, instead of guys always wondering if they will get traded. Tyler had a couple of bad games, but he's still overall a fairly solid player, tries hard on defense, shoots 35% from 3, and has over a 2/1 ast/to ratio (and usually better). We at least need him until we feel Jerome and Rubio are injury free.

I don't know that a team wants to trade for DeMar DeRozan either, though I guess the Magic make more sense than most. They do need outside shooting, but could also use a playmaker, and he is underrated there. But I doubt those GMs would be an overall fan of his.
User avatar
Dual
Veteran
Posts: 2,682
And1: 1,494
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
 

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1583 » by Dual » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:21 pm

The better fit is Love(3pt & reb), but you have to trade 3 players to get him and I dont think James Jones will do that(also is the most expensive one).
So maybe the one that makes more sense is Gallinari, if OKC is still far from playoffs I guess they will hit the trigger with all the veterans.
User avatar
NapoleonII
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,612
And1: 4,961
Joined: Aug 31, 2007

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1584 » by NapoleonII » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:35 pm

Aaron Gordon is one the dumbest and selfish players in the league right now.

User avatar
Dual
Veteran
Posts: 2,682
And1: 1,494
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
 

Re: 2019 season speculation 

Post#1585 » by Dual » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:51 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=19
Blonde
Veteran
Posts: 2,934
And1: 3,919
Joined: Jun 16, 2014
Location: Phoenix
       

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1586 » by Blonde » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:00 pm

bwgood77 wrote:Saric is a better fit next to Ayton.


I’m not sure I agree with that. And even if I did it wouldn’t be a deciding factor for me because Gordon is a lot more talented with higher upside on both ends. Saric is older (not by too much) but he’s been with 3 teams already - he is who he is. The appeal with AG is that you put him in a new system next to a real point guard for the first time as the 3rd/4th option and see what he becomes. It’s a relatively safe upside gamble.

I do think Saric will look MUCH better once Ayton is back, and his offensive game theoretically works great next to Ayton. We should know after a couple months whether a Saric/Ayton frontcourt is the answer but I’m not betting on it.
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,560
And1: 14,847
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1587 » by Qwigglez » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:11 pm

We already have Oubre who always make a bone-headed play every now and then, I can't imagine having two players in Aaron Gordon that occasionally have lapses on offense/defense. Don't get me wrong, I'd trade for him if it didn't take much, but I wouldn't offer one of Bridges or Cam Johnson as part of any package.

I think I'd rather go for an older player like Lamarcus Aldridge, who even though is older his game doesn't rely on athleticism. I think he'd be a good role model for Ayton too, to go along with Baynes. I just find it hard to believe the Spurs would trade him to a Western Conference team, however perhaps they would trade him to us since we are still somewhat of a smaller market compared to the LA teams and even Golden State. Love or Griffin would be okay, but they are both players that are consistently injured, plus they would cost an extra player just to make salaries match. LMA would likely cost us Ty Johnson, Saric, and probably Bridges too. We may be able to offer picks instead of Bridges but it would most likely take two 1st round picks. I would definitely pull the trigger though because again the guy doesn't get injured. The lowest amount of games he's played in his career is 55 in 2011. If it came down to trading Bridges or 2 1st round picks, I'd trade the picks though because we'd be set virtually at every position. Maybe throw in Jecque if it incites the Spurs enough?

Rubio / Okobo / Jerome
Booker / Johnson
Oubre / Bridges
Aldridge / Kaminsky
Ayton / Baynes

I could see Popovich wanting Bridges though. He'd turn him into the next Kawhi Leonard.
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,560
And1: 14,847
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1588 » by Qwigglez » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:14 pm

In order of preference on guys who are possibly on the trading block this would be my list.

Lamarcus Aldridge
Aaron Gordon
Kevin Love
Blake Griffin
Danilo Gallinari

Gallinari is too injury prone just like Love/Griffin. He's a lot cheaper cost than those guys, but I'm afraid he'd be injured too much.
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,364
And1: 9,051
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1589 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:17 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I doubt Aaron Gordon is traded any time soon, particularly with Vucevic now out a month. Now he's off to a bad start, so they could want to trade him, but it's likely just a bad start to the season....however, if, for some reason it wasn't, he doesn't appear to be an upgrade, and shoots 28% from 3. Even his best year was under 35%, where Saric's best year is over 39% and he's just a tad under that this year.

Saric is a better fit next to Ayton.

Now I am not a huge fan of Saric, and if Gordon is a good player his contract isn't all that bad, but if they did want to get out of it, would they want to have to pay Saric? Now of course they could say, like I am saying, that Saric is the better 3 pt shooter and is better, and could be cheaper.

I just personally don't know that Gordon is the answer on a team with Ayton, and especially if we keep Baynes.

As far as a guy like Tristan Thompson, I kind of like Diallo, and would like to see how he continues to do in our other C's absence. He could be a very cheap nice option to keep, and maybe a steal. I'd like to see if he can improve his rebounding.

I want to keep some consistency for once on the team, and continuity, instead of guys always wondering if they will get traded. Tyler had a couple of bad games, but he's still overall a fairly solid player, tries hard on defense, shoots 35% from 3, and has over a 2/1 ast/to ratio (and usually better). We at least need him until we feel Jerome and Rubio are injury free.

I don't know that a team wants to trade for DeMar DeRozan either, though I guess the Magic make more sense than most. They do need outside shooting, but could also use a playmaker, and he is underrated there. But I doubt those GMs would be an overall fan of his.


Really good points to consider overall as always Bgood. Now to reiterate, Ideally, Bigger trades using Tyler's expiring would preferably be considered around the trade deadline in order to give us more time to see what we have with the te'lam at full strength, and with some actual continuity as well. I like that Monty Williams is bringing certain concepts from his San Antonio days to Phoenix. And actual continuity and roster chemistry would definitely be a refreshing change of pace from what we've become accustomed to in the valley.

Now with respect to the proposed players inclusive to the trades:

With Aaron Gordon, The line of thinking was in that with Aaron Gordon having a poor start to the year, And with the magic being hard capped, The expiring contract of Tyler Johnson would be of value to them for the purpose of getting back in line with the cap. And I was also considering that yes, as Bgood said, Aaron Gordon hasn't yet had a really good season. But I ( may be wrong of course) believe that with a superior passing point guard and a change of scenery, He could be a really good pick in roll threat and defensive compliment for us. My hope is that he could play in more of a marion defensive type role, whilst also making energizing plays for us similar to how marion would do in skying in for monstrous dunks. I also believe that with his speed and athleticism, he could be a great positional defender for us. Now having said that, I really have been impressed with Sarics' most recent game, I loved his effort. And that he actually plays with defensive intensity, as I truly think that'll be key to our team's success and sustainability. And he might not be available, But in the right situation, I'd definitely inquire about him. This team is achieving pretty good results with cast off players and players that might have something to prove and have had mediocre careers so far, yet still offer potentially valuable individual skillsets. And Monty is supposedly really good at player development too. So Aaron Gordon could develop into a potential steal for us in that regard I suspect.

With respect to Diallo, He's been great in my opinion and for his price as well. This is mainly due to the defensive energy that he brings, as well as his length, athleticism and shooting consistency. And we should definitely resign him IF POSSIBLE with a small yet reasonable increase if he maintains his play and production throughout the rest of the season for us. And with Tristan Thompson, I'm notbeven suggesting trading ( losing Saric) to accomplish acquiring him. It theoretically in this proposal would only cost us Tyler's expiring and a future 2nd round pick. Also, its important to remember that he's also a comparable expiring to Tyler, So he wouldn't really become much of a risk to us at all. And also wouldn't affect our cap space plans either. But what he would do is address one of our most critical issues in our rebounding and post presence, which can be easily argued that both issues are large contributors to a number of our losses. And he'd give us another dynamic in our rotation and more quality veteran depth in our frontcourt, should Baynes be out longer than expected or should we suffer any more unfortunate injuries. Saric could still start, keeping his shooting for us, with Thompson at center ( whilst Baynes is out) and Then we play Kaminsky at the 4, and Diallo at the 5, or vice versa off the bench with Kaminsky at the 5, and Diallo at the 4, whatever.

And once Ayton and Baynes return, we can have numerous variations and supreme depth carrying us throughout the season, and helping to ensure our hopeful playoff appearance this year. Then review and resign the top performing players using our bird rights?

Once Ayton and Baynes return, We might try something like this as our primary rotation:

Rubio/ Jerome/ Carter.
Booker/ Bridges/Okobo.
Oubre/ Cam Johnson/ Bridges.
Saric/ Thompson/ Diallo.
Baynes/ Kaminsky/ Thompson.

With this particular rotation, Our starters would be very solid, and our bench would have a very nice mixture of actual great shooting with Jerome, Cam Johnson, and (even possibly?)Kaminsky? Whilst providing solid defense and rebounding with Bridges and Thompson both in the lineup. And again, Thompson is still an expiring, and won't affect us in terms of cap space. Essentially we are just exchanging expiring contracts for their positional skillset, and to address some imminent critical issues that are contributing to our losses. That's what good teams do anyways. :nod:
Image
User avatar
Qwigglez
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 21,560
And1: 14,847
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Contact:
     

Re: 2019 season speculation 

Post#1590 » by Qwigglez » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:18 pm

^That's good news. I'd rather just throw him in the fire than to let him play in the G-League, but maybe just for a game or two in the G-League so he can get some endurance back.
User avatar
Dual
Veteran
Posts: 2,682
And1: 1,494
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
 

Re: 2019 season speculation 

Post#1591 » by Dual » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:22 pm

Qwigglez wrote:^That's good news. I'd rather just throw him in the fire than to let him play in the G-League, but maybe just for a game or two in the G-League so he can get some endurance back.

Yep, G-League has been a really good place to put players after long injuries in rhythm.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,175
And1: 61,016
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1592 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:36 pm

I don't see Ayton in your proposed new lineup. The fact is, we were playing really well before the Rubio and Baynes injuries....as good as almost anyone. I don't think I'd screw that up.

Plus I think Monty likes Saric and wanted him for a reason due to coaching him before so I don't think he gets traded unless they start negotiations on a contract and he wants way too much.

He has also talked about liking Tyler's grit and the fact he has played on competitive teams. I think ultimately we would rather keep him and let him expire given our upcoming contracts. I think he wants to build continuity as well.

I don't think continuing to turn the roster over repeatedly helps us, particularly the way we were playing to start the year, even without Ayton or Jerome.
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,364
And1: 9,051
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1593 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:40 pm

Qwigglez wrote:In order of preference on guys who are possibly on the trading block this would be my list.

Lamarcus Aldridge
Aaron Gordon
Kevin Love
Blake Griffin
Danilo Gallinari

Gallinari is too injury prone just like Love/Griffin. He's a lot cheaper cost than those guys, but I'm afraid he'd be injured too much.


Yeah, I see Gordon kind of as discount version of Griffin in terms of Athleticism and Dunking prowess. With a potential developing three point shot. And right now Saric is the budget version of Gallinari for us. I also like Aldridge's production and size, But would worry that due to his style of play and lack of rim protection, would be redundant next to Ayton. Kevin Love is still having really good production, and would be a good fit next to Ayton, But that contract and his age and injury issues are big disqualifiers for me personally. Especially with both Aytons' and Bridges extensions looming. As unpopular as it might be, I for my part, still like Gordon the best currently ( ***if available) despite his poor reputation in terms of production. I just strongly believe that he needs a change of scenery and a different role in a new situation, And with a high quality PASSING point guard to finally elevate his game and take it to the next level. I think he'd be great for us in a Marion type of defensive and energizing role. Also in not having to be a primary option. But that's still a good list too, And Gallinari is an awesome consideration. But IF Saric can emulate that for us hopefully at around half the price of Gallinari, Then I hope we just resign him and then look to address our frontcourt rebounding and defensive issues.
Image
User avatar
NapoleonII
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,612
And1: 4,961
Joined: Aug 31, 2007

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1594 » by NapoleonII » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:40 pm

If there was any way to get Jonathan Isaac from Orlando (they've traded budding stars before, Tobias Harris/Victor Oladipo) I would throw the farm outside of Ayton and Booker.

He does everything you want in a modern PF and doesn't need the ball. He's a DPOY in the making at 22 years old, almost leading the league in shot blocking. Can shoot the three, pass. He's insanely long and can defend 1-5. He'd look even better next to Rubio and Booker.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,175
And1: 61,016
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: 2019 season speculation 

Post#1595 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:45 pm

A little bit of the latest from Gina:

Williams has already noticed Ayton’s added muscle via weight-room sessions with the strength and conditioning staff. On the court, Ayton has worked with assistant coach Mark Bryant on getting a little more arc on his jumper, which will help him eventually add a 3-pointer to his game. Ayton has run scripted plays. He has observed Baynes, whose hard screen-setting and sharp communication as a defensive anchor are areas the Suns staff wants Ayton to improve.

And after most players have left the practice court, Ayton plays in pickup games with non-rotation teammates along with assistant and player-development coaches such as Steve Blake and Willie Green. Following a Friday night practice in Minneapolis prior to a win against the Timberwolves, Ayton and rookie point guard Ty Jerome (who is currently recovering from a sprained ankle) were the last players on the Target Center floor.

“He was killing it,” second-year guard Elie Okobo said of Ayton’s work in those pickup games. “He was playing like Deandre. He was bullying people, playing strong, dunking the ball, shooting 3s, playing with a high energy. It’s good to see him working hard and being ready.”

Added Baynes: “He’s the biggest piece of this team — literally. He’s definitely gonna help us when he comes back. It’s just maintaining his focus right now. … taking advantage of his time that he has right now to key in on being a student of the game and also getting his body right so there’s no digression in that area when he does come back.”
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,175
And1: 61,016
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1596 » by bwgood77 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:47 pm

NapoleonII wrote:If there was any way to get Jonathan Isaac from Orlando (they've traded budding stars before, Tobias Harris/Victor Oladipo) I would throw the farm outside of Ayton and Booker.

He does everything you want in a modern PF and doesn't need the ball. He's a DPOY in the making at 22 years old, almost leading the league in shot blocking. Can shoot the three, pass. He's insanely long and can defend 1-5. He'd look even better next to Rubio and Booker.


I agree. I love him as a player but apparently Orlando is insanely high on him. I think he's likely their most untradeable piece. Those earlier dealings were before this current regime took over.
User avatar
Dual
Veteran
Posts: 2,682
And1: 1,494
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
 

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1597 » by Dual » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:56 pm

Tbh that's the reason that maybe Orlando will be open to deal Gordon, they have two high level pfs. And Isaac is awesome.
About Gordon, he has been playing in one of the worst offensive teams for years, Orlando has survived being in the East and with only defense.
As some people said here, a change of scenary can release a more effective Gordon in offensive side.
Frank Lee
RealGM
Posts: 14,268
And1: 10,086
Joined: Nov 07, 2006

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1598 » by Frank Lee » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:18 pm

I posted this in the game thread conversation... but it belongs here too I suppose .

Well, drafting Ty Jerome and having Okobo sort of crowds his (Tyler Johnson) position. Given his value in trade (ie expiring 19 mill) it only makes sense to see if some improvement can be made with a deal. Ive seen a few proposed but truly, he'd have to go to a team looking to shed salary... and that means we'd have to be willing to absorb some. Its quite a limited short list. Furthermore, to upgrade this team it begins with PF. Baynes shows he can start, or at least deserve 24+ minutes... Ayton should get 32+ ... there just has to be some overlap. And then toss in CamJohnson for some small ball PF... we might be only looking at about 20-24 of available PF minutes. Saric seems willing and able to me. Shank gets in for his first 3 shots.....

So, I guess, once fully healthy, we arent sitting too bad. Unless we get exactly who we want, I dont see making a deal just because. Griffin and Love still intrigue me though, as I'd say, anything done , its even money one of those two is in the mix. Like it or not, there is too much front office history to ignore.

I havent looked at our cap scene too close, but if I was listing off priorities, I think keeping Baynes next yr has to be about tops by now. Wouldnt want to make a move that would jeopardize that.


One other thing.... Why wouldnt we start Ayton at the 4 ?... it just makes sense. Its sort of like with Rubio and Book.... one should be on the court at all times. Its an easier fix all around, and worth a shot for 10-15 games (up to the deadline)
What ? Me Worry ?
User avatar
Ghost of Kleine
Master of Tweets
Posts: 16,364
And1: 9,051
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1599 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:18 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I don't see Ayton in your proposed new lineup. The fact is, we were playing really well before the Rubio and Baynes injuries....as good as almost anyone. I don't think I'd screw that up.

Plus I think Monty likes Saric and wanted him for a reason due to coaching him before so I don't think he gets traded unless they start negotiations on a contract and he wants way too much.

He has also talked about liking Tyler's grit and the fact he has played on competitive teams. I think ultimately we would rather keep him and let him expire given our upcoming contracts. I think he wants to build continuity as well.

I don't think continuing to turn the roster over repeatedly helps us, particularly the way we were playing to start the year, even without Ayton or Jerome.


Sorry, My bad, I got distracted. People talking to me whilst I was posting. :oops: It should look like this:

Rubio/ Jerome/ Carter.
Booker/ Bridges/ Okobo.
Oubre/ Cam Johnson/ Bridges.
Saric/ Thompson/ Diallo.
Ayton/ Baynes/ Kaminsky.
***Sorry again about the Ayton exclusion!

Also, I'm not really talking about continually changing the roster, I'm only discussing possibly moving one player tops( Tyler Johnson's expiring
in exchange for Tristan Thompsons' expiring). And I'm also NOT talking about moving Saric in the Tristan Thompson scenario either, Or replacing him from the starting lineup. So continuuity within the roster would basically remain the same obviously, with the only real changes being Tyler Johnson outgoing( being replaced by Okobo). And Kaminsky now being replaced by Thompson in the 2nd rotation, and being moved to the 3rd rotation. Ideally this is about adding additional depth as insurance against further possible injuries, and addressing our rebounding and frontcourt defensive issues with Ayton and Baynes out. Also with consideration to a better quality of depth to help carry us through this season, again, in case of further potential reoccurring injuries.

Also with respect to Saric first, I totally agree that he's likely to stay and be resigned and is very likely both Monty's and the team's intent as evidenced by them signing his qualifying offer in order to make him a restricted free agent. And I'm quite pleased with his recent production and versatility and willingness to play defense too. So I definitely say keep him IF he sustains his production and defensive intensity. But IF he's priced out by the market, Then we can then look at other options.

With respect to Tyler Johnson, I do also love his defensive tenacity and his veteran experience. But for his current pricetag, His production has been fairly terrible. And unless his production returns, his potential trade value and overall value of what he brings to our rotation is greatly diminished. And honestly, Okobo has been providing for us what Tyler's supposed to for 18-19 million less anyways. Thompson however offers a solution for our critical rebounding issues, and at least decent rim protection in contrast to our current rotation bigs, and again is an expiring contract for basically the same pricetag ( within 700,000) as what Tyler Johnson is commanding. So what I'm looking at respectively is contract price versus skillset and production( bang for the buck) and currently Thompson would give us much greater value at nearly the exact same pricetag as what we are paying Johnson to do. Also to not be discounted would be positional trade value. In that a player such as Thompson would provide us with possibly higher incumbent trade value in return in terms of contribution than what Tyler Johnson has shown.

But perhaps Tyler finds his production again, or perhaps we're just planning on letting him expire anyways. It's just for my part, I'd prefer to get more value from a player who's making close to 20 million, and IF he's not likely in our longterm plans anyways, Then why not use his contract to address vital areas to our success and progress if at possible?
Image
Frank Lee
RealGM
Posts: 14,268
And1: 10,086
Joined: Nov 07, 2006

Re: Trade deadline ideas and possibilities using TJs' expiring 

Post#1600 » by Frank Lee » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:27 pm

Foolish to look at Tyler Johnson as anything but an expiring deal. Bang for the buck ? Compare his output to Ryan Anderson. We didnt negotiate TJos deal. You want to bang for buck something, talk Oubre, Book, Rubio, Shank etc
What ? Me Worry ?

Return to Phoenix Suns