2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

Puff · Post #1581 » by **Puff** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:13 pm

Are Beals injuries related to his disdain for coach Bud. I remember him sitting far away from the team in the final minute of the game against Grizzles, in a winnable game, while Bud was talking to the rest of the team. I guess he knew he was not a part of Bud's offense. KD even seemed to not really care in the final minutes of that game. I really question whether of not any of the players enjoy playing for coach Bud. I know I cannot stand to watch his team, even though I do.

sunskerr · Post #1582 » by **sunskerr** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 7:42 pm

I could not give a flying f whether it's the coach or the players. These guys have had several different coaches and the result is the same. They're not going to "get it" next year. The roster is not talented enough to be a competitor and there are literally zero assets and cap space left.

BobbieL · Post #1583 » by **BobbieL** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 8:00 pm

sunskerr wrote:I could not give a flying f whether it's the coach or the players. These guys have had several different coaches and the result is the same. They're not going to "get it" next year. The roster is not talented enough to be a competitor and there are literally zero assets and cap space left.

Correct!!

Ishbia tried -- and failed
So you can either stick yuour head in the ground and keep Booker as he is the "franchise" or you can blow it up - get very good value for Booker; get nice solid value for Durant and for O'Neale and Allen - take an expiring contract and a second round pick and move forward, below the apron.

Hire a GM with a long term vision. Need a chess player who sees the long game.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #1584 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 8:54 pm

Read on Twitter

The mistake is in how much we gave up for KD! Again, arguing on the premise of "player Empowerment" being a huge factor, also KD's clout being a top-tier player in the entire league! We did have leverage (even if not complete leverage) but our leverage was significant. At the very least we needed to keep Bridges defensively and maybe at least one of our unprotected 1sts. Nobody was going to force KD to go somewhere he didn't want to go!

But our new owner had to make a big splash! And show off by overpaying. And then what really ruined our entire future was doubling, tripling, and even quadrupling down on trading away all of our assets and core. And IF Jones and our front office even cared to do their job or were even slightly good at it, they would have handled the Ayton situation much better and not let things build up and bubble over to the point of being forced to trade him for a very poor return. Ishbia is reckless and lacks any impulse control! But Jones has been the constant behind our slow demise/disintegration for too long now! The front office and Jones also failed miserably for years to put legitimate talent/ depth around Booker.

I understand the cheapness factor under Sarver, restricting our options significantly. But any good- great GM would have then shifted their focus to cost-controlled rookie talent on 4 yr rookie scale contracts as ballast for their higher contracts. But Jones himself admitted to not valuing rookies at all! So we lost out on multiple opportunities there too! The KD trade was somewhat understandable! But the lack of planning after and the reckless impulsitivity shown just throwing away unreasonable amounts of our assets is indefensible. :nod:

SunsRback4Good · Post #1585 » by **SunsRback4Good** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 9:34 pm

sunskerr wrote:I could not give a flying f whether it's the coach or the players. These guys have had several different coaches and the result is the same. They're not going to "get it" next year. The roster is not talented enough to be a competitor and there are literally zero assets and cap space left.

Maybe we need to bring in a championship pedigree coach who will push the players to the limit?

sunsbg · Post #1586 » by **sunsbg** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 9:42 pm

SunsRback4Good wrote:
sunskerr wrote:I could not give a flying f whether it's the coach or the players. These guys have had several different coaches and the result is the same. They're not going to "get it" next year. The roster is not talented enough to be a competitor and there are literally zero assets and cap space left.

Maybe we need to bring in a championship pedigree coach who will push the players to the limit?

Just say you mean this guy.

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUPb2JyYWRvdmljIHBzdWpl

SunsRback4Good · Post #1587 » by **SunsRback4Good** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:12 pm

sunsbg wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
sunskerr wrote:I could not give a flying f whether it's the coach or the players. These guys have had several different coaches and the result is the same. They're not going to "get it" next year. The roster is not talented enough to be a competitor and there are literally zero assets and cap space left.

Maybe we need to bring in a championship pedigree coach who will push the players to the limit?

Just say you mean this guy.

Watch on YouTube
;pp=ygUPb2JyYWRvdmljIHBzdWpl

LOL

thamadkant · Post #1588 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:28 pm

1. Replacing Bud is not a good idea. Best is to keep him and get him to develop the next Suns core. He has good track record and a champion. Young players will respect that. Its clear Booker, KD doesnt, but that's not Bud's fault, its more so that Booker and KD simply are awful leaders with egos.

2. Suns clearly need to trade Booker. Every move the Suns have done post 2021 NBA Finals was to appease Booker and LITERALLY, the Suns got worse every season since then. Booker is NOT the franchise player that Suns thought he was. NBA and Suns thought Booker would dominate the SG spot for the next decade, but Anthony Edwards, SGA (he's a PG and SG) took that away.

Slim Charless · Post #1589 » by **Slim Charless** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:54 pm

thamadkant wrote:1. Replacing Bud is not a good idea. Best is to keep him and get him to develop the next Suns core. He has good track record and a champion. Young players will respect that. Its clear Booker, KD doesnt, but that's not Bud's fault, its more so that Booker and KD simply are awful leaders with egos.

2. Suns clearly need to trade Booker. Every move the Suns have done post 2021 NBA Finals was to appease Booker and LITERALLY, the Suns got worse every season since then. Booker is NOT the franchise player that Suns thought he was. NBA and Suns thought Booker would dominate the SG spot for the next decade, but Anthony Edwards, SGA (he's a PG and SG) took that away.

Bud is a good coach. I don't blame him for this season. Hell, Phil Jackson couldn't save this bunch. I think trading Booker and Durant and rebooting with a young core of hungry players is the move.

Fo-Real · Post #1590 » by **Fo-Real** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 10:58 pm

Wouldn't be shocked to see Bud get the axe and Fizdale get the nod at some point.

thamadkant · Post #1591 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Mar 1, 2025 11:04 pm

So KD already marketing himself to other teams for the offseason. Another franchise abandoned.

Windhorst article already ensuring Suns are trading KD so his value is pretty much done.

Ghost of Kleine · Post #1592 » by **Ghost of Kleine** » Sun Mar 2, 2025 12:15 am

SunsRback4Good wrote:
sunsbg wrote:
SunsRback4Good wrote:
Maybe we need to bring in a championship pedigree coach who will push the players to the limit?

Just say you mean this guy.

Watch on YouTube
;pp=ygUPb2JyYWRvdmljIHBzdWpl

LOL

Obradovic would definitely be great for toughness and vocal accountability. But I'd also strongly consider Sergio Scariola
The winningest coach in FIBA history!

Read on Twitter

Under Scariolo, Spain won the gold medal at - -
- EuroBasket 2009. Gold medal.
- EuroBasket 2011. Gold medal.
- EuroBasket 2015. Gold medal.
- EuroBasket 2022. Gold medal.
- Silver medal at the 2012 Summer Olympics.
- Bronze medal at the 2016 Summer Olympics.
- Bronze medal at EuroBasket 2017.

bigfoot · Post #1593 » by **bigfoot** » Sun Mar 2, 2025 1:53 am

Reality based on the remaining schedule

sunsbum · Post #1594 » by **sunsbum** » Sun Mar 2, 2025 4:18 am

Fo-Real wrote:Wouldn't be shocked to see Bud get the axe and Fizdale get the nod at some point.

Fizdale is not a good head coach

bullsaficianado · Post #1595 » by **bullsaficianado** » Sun Mar 2, 2025 10:12 am

There is no point in firing Bud. Absolutely no point. I don't care if he hurt Booker's feelings. If the Suns fire another coach they will be the laughing stock of the league. Imagine hiring another coach and still be paying for three other head coaches.

Keep Bud.

MrMiyagi · Post #1596 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Mar 2, 2025 10:16 am

bullsaficianado wrote:There is no point in firing Bud. Absolutely no point. I don't care if he hurt Booker's feelings. If the Suns fire another coach they will be the laughing stock of the league. Imagine hiring another coach and still be paying for three other head coaches.

Keep Bud.

As if we weren't already

Sunlight · Post #1597 » by **Sunlight** » Sun Mar 2, 2025 12:21 pm

Ishbia and the fans are overestimating Booker's true level years. That's why the situation is what it is now. The Bucks series or game 7 against the Mavs was not enough to prove it.
The GMs of other teams are aware of it and now it is too late to get enough return from Booker.
A long dark time has come and there is no end in sight.

ChuckS · Post #1598 » by **ChuckS** » Sun Mar 2, 2025 2:00 pm

thamadkant wrote:1. Replacing Bud is not a good idea. Best is to keep him and get him to develop the next Suns core. He has good track record and a champion. Young players will respect that. Its clear Booker, KD doesnt, but that's not Bud's fault, its more so that Booker and KD simply are awful leaders with egos.

2. Suns clearly need to trade Booker. Every move the Suns have done post 2021 NBA Finals was to appease Booker and LITERALLY, the Suns got worse every season since then. Booker is NOT the franchise player that Suns thought he was. NBA and Suns thought Booker would dominate the SG spot for the next decade, but Anthony Edwards, SGA (he's a PG and SG) took that away.

SGA is having an MVP type year and has been awesome for the last three years. Ant currently is averaging one point more than Book and is exceptional. But Devin is currently eighth in the league scoring, and with the 21st all time NBA scoring average. He also has to share the scoring with the eighth greatest all time NBA scorer. Considering talent and contributions, I do not see a "clear need" to trade him. You make him sound like a mediocrity.

thamadkant wrote:So KD already marketing himself to other teams for the offseason. Another franchise abandoned.

Windhorst article already ensuring Suns are trading KD so his value is pretty much done.

I could be wrong, but I understand that it was the team which "marketed" KD without notification. It was KD who killed any trade, stating he did not want to be traded mid season. He said he preferred to remain a Sun and help his current teammates attempt to turn the season around.

And believing his "value is pretty much done" seems to be in disagreement with some very knowledgeable posters herein whose trade scenarios suggest he might not be valueless.

thamadkant wrote:...Trade Booker, Trade KD. Both are terrible leaders. Brad Beal is the best leader on the Suns believe it or not, he is mature, says the right things and do the things that help the team... too bad he's built like glass.

Players like Tyus Jones, Grayson Allen, Royce O'neal.... all good role players but all of a sudden, very ineffective playing with Booker and KD.... its because those role players require leadership, which the Suns lack. ...

I've seen this sentiment expressed numerous times on this board, and rightly or wrongly believe it to be profoundly nebulous bullpoopy. Nick Richards is relatively new to the Suns, but has been in the league for five years. He has already exceeded his highest rebounding average, and is averaging his second best PPG. Based upon what I've seen in his last few games, I expect him to exceed the latter (scoring average) before the end of the season. Royce O'Neale has played 9 years and best PPG and 3 pt% have been with the suns. Grayson Allen has been in the league 7 years and his best PPG and 3 pt% have also been while here. Tyus Jones has been in the league 10 years and his second best scoring average and 3pt% have been this year. Ryan Dunn is already a fan favorite and I attribute that much to KD's constant (but particularly summer) tutelage. If you want to blame Oso, Bridges, Lee, Morris, or TyTy on KD or Book, I would consider that ludicrous.

Post #1599 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Mar 2, 2025 5:02 pm

Warriors lost to Sixers last night. Butler out with back spasms. We probably avoided another killer contract with an injury prone guy who missed the playoffs last year and now has back spasms.

Hopefully we don't trade KD for him in a S&T giving him a huge contract.

sunsbg · Post #1600 » by **sunsbg** » Sun Mar 2, 2025 5:46 pm

bwgood77 wrote:Warriors lost to Sixers last night. Butler out with back spasms. We probably avoided another killer contract with an injury prone guy who missed the playoffs last year and now has back spasms.

Hopefully we don't trade KD for him in a S&T giving him a huge contract.

Suns could've had another past his prime max player start his career on the team with fluky back injury. What a missed opportunity for Ishbia.