Suns need to stop neglecting to develop their young players

DRK · Post #161 » by **DRK** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 3:02 am

We were in the same place the Jazz were 4 years ago, and the Jazz have the best future in the league.

Meanwhile we are still in the same place we were 4 years ago....

blacksun · Post #162 » by **blacksun** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 4:04 am

DRK wrote:We were in the same place the Jazz were 4 years ago, and the Jazz have the best future in the league.

Meanwhile we are still in the same place we were 4 years ago....

Agreed. Its amazing were harping on this board about the same issues for three years now. Something has to change. Even if we start winning it wont solve our issues.

Revived · Post #163 » by **Revived** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 10:16 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:I drafted Len. I thought he was ready. I am really struggling to understand your team.

Is it that you guys think you are making the playoffs, and the chance of that is worth giving a guy like Len 9 minutes? Or is Len just not ready for primetime?

- Confused

Its a combination of Len regressing towards the end of last season and Chandler being an absolute beast.

The Suns are NBA's 2nd ranked rebounding team. One of things on my bucket lists has always been to see the Suns at some point in a season top 5 in rebounding. I'm closer to dying a happy man because of Tyson Chandler.

Len's improved this year somewhat under Chandler as well.

If Chandler was struggling and Len wasn't playing, then I think you see more complaints here but that's not the case. On the other hand....PJ Tucker starting over Warren is..... :banghead:

Matt1979 · Post #164 » by **Matt1979** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 12:33 pm

I really can't understand how Tucker, who is frankly impotent on offence, and not much better on defence, is starting ahead of a genuine scoring threat in Warren.

Plus has Warren even missed a three pointer this season? I know he only tries one a game but as far as I recall he's drained every one.

Son of Ra · Post #165 » by **Son of Ra** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 2:05 pm

In before the 'practice, dleague, rotting on the bench and earning a spot IS developing' crowd./sarcasm, smh.

Post #166 » by **rsavaj** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 5:42 pm

I agree Warren should be starting, but looks like the scouting report's out on him. Teams know he's not a threat beyond the arc and they've shut down his lanes, which is reflected in the drop in efficiency(53% FG last year, 44% so far this season).

I like Warren but without the ability to make a solid corner 3, he's just another role-player

Post #167 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 7:39 pm

DRK wrote:We were in the same place the Jazz were 4 years ago, and the Jazz have the best future in the league.

Meanwhile we are still in the same place we were 4 years ago....

Best future in the league? Gobert was a nice pick, and Hayward is good, but their bigs don't have any range. I think I'd easily take Minnesota's future over theirs.

Post #168 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 7:41 pm

blacksun wrote:
DRK wrote:We were in the same place the Jazz were 4 years ago, and the Jazz have the best future in the league.

Meanwhile we are still in the same place we were 4 years ago....

Agreed. Its amazing were harping on this board about the same issues for three years now. Something has to change. Even if we start winning it wont solve our issues.

But four years ago we didn't have any young guys. We were trying to win with Scola, Gortat, Dudley and Nash and the team was getting worse...we refused to get younger. Now we are MUCH younger than four years ago and have added 3 lottery picks.

Post #169 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 7:45 pm

Matt1979 wrote:I really can't understand how Tucker, who is frankly impotent on offence, and not much better on defence, is starting ahead of a genuine scoring threat in Warren.

Plus has Warren even missed a three pointer this season? I know he only tries one a game but as far as I recall he's drained every one.

I think it's a combination of things. Defense, having a very good spark off the bench, and trying to get trade value for Tucker. I really think they do plan on starting Warren at some point this season, and probably sooner than later. If you look at my per 36 comparisons of Kieff and Leuer, you will see that you could much more easily argue that Leuer should start, but then again, maybe they want to play Kieff for trade value. However if he doesn't play well, it won't help.

Tucker has a positive +/- in every game but the first one. He had 10 boards one game and at least puts in a big effort. He doesn't bother me nearly as much as some others, and Warren usually plays about as much anyway.

Post #170 » by **bwgood77** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 7:46 pm

rsavaj wrote:I agree Warren should be starting, but looks like the scouting report's out on him. Teams know he's not a threat beyond the arc and they've shut down his lanes, which is reflected in the drop in efficiency(53% FG last year, 44% so far this season).

I like Warren but without the ability to make a solid corner 3, he's just another role-player

I'm guessing that's the challenge put in front of him.....hit that 3 at a decent rate and you can start. If we clog the middle our guards HAVE to shoot long shots all game.

Revived · Post #171 » by **Revived** » Sun Nov 8, 2015 8:36 pm

Son of Ra wrote:In before the 'practice, dleague, rotting on the bench and earning a spot IS developing' crowd./sarcasm, smh.

That's already starting to being said for Booker lol.

Post #172 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Nov 9, 2015 12:34 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Matt1979 wrote:I really can't understand how Tucker, who is frankly impotent on offence, and not much better on defence, is starting ahead of a genuine scoring threat in Warren.

Plus has Warren even missed a three pointer this season? I know he only tries one a game but as far as I recall he's drained every one.

I think it's a combination of things. Defense, having a very good spark off the bench, and trying to get trade value for Tucker. I really think they do plan on starting Warren at some point this season, and probably sooner than later. If you look at my per 36 comparisons of Kieff and Leuer, you will see that you could much more easily argue that Leuer should start, but then again, maybe they want to play Kieff for trade value. However if he doesn't play well, it won't help.

Tucker has a positive +/- in every game but the first one. He had 10 boards one game and at least puts in a big effort. He doesn't bother me nearly as much as some others, and Warren usually plays about as much anyway.

Also something that posters don't mention is the intangibles Tucker brings just like Kieff does even though traditional stats say other players should start in front of them. Right now Warren relies on one skill that allows him to score and rebound, and that skill is moving without the ball. If you look at him with the ball in his hands, he's only been successful in scoring a handful of times. He still doesn't have a reliable 3PT shot and his defense leaves a lot to be desired.

Tucker defends a very high level (not elite), he can hit the 3 (38.5%) and he only takes a negligible amount of shot attempts. Essentially he has a positive +/- despite not being as talented offensively than TJ because he does the intangibles that doesn't necessarily pop up in the box scores. That tells me TJ still has a lot to learn about the NBA game.

Likewise with Leuer v Kieff. Kieff brings an offensive intangibility which means you HAVE to defend him or he'll go off on you. Whereas Leuer will have a 20pt game on the rare occasion when he's on fire from the 3 but he's still not a guy who'll consistently give you points. Not that Kieff has been consistent but if you don't play above average D on him, he's gonna drop 20 on you every night.

So I'm not saying TJ shouldn't be starting but to look at TJ's box score and to justify him starting over a vet would be wrong.

RaisingArizona · Post #173 » by **RaisingArizona** » Mon Nov 9, 2015 3:40 am

TJ should definitely be starting. Clank isn't even playing good defense this year.

Revived · Post #174 » by **Revived** » Mon Nov 9, 2015 4:30 am

ginobiliflops wrote:TJ should definitely be starting. Clank isn't even playing good defense this year.

Lmaoo I was literally about to ask you who clank is. At first I thought it was spell check and then I couldn't figure out any player whose name comes even close to that and then I finally figured it out :lol:

Warren should be starting and Booker ought to be the 3rd guard in the rotation.

I don't know why the hell Goodwin played today instead of Booker. Goodwin got schooled by Dion freaking Waiters and can't provide spacing offensively either. Right now, based on what we need, Booker should be far ahead of Goodwin.

sunskerr · Post #175 » by **sunskerr** » Mon Nov 9, 2015 4:47 am

On the subject of development...

Anyone think Bledsoe has made the leap to all star now?

MrMiyagi · Post #176 » by **MrMiyagi** » Mon Nov 9, 2015 5:01 am

sunskerr wrote:On the subject of development...

Anyone think Bledsoe has made the leap to all star now?

I a conference that has CP3, Steph, Westbrook, Harden, and Lillard do I think he'll make the all-star team? Probably not. But I do think he's playing at an all-star caliber lever.

Revived · Post #177 » by **Revived** » Mon Nov 9, 2015 5:01 am

sunskerr wrote:On the subject of development...

Anyone think Bledsoe has made the leap to all star now?

In the West, doubt it just because of the strength of the conference m.

He's definitely playing at a very high level. Him and Tyson have been the two positives from the season so far.

Revived · Post #178 » by **Revived** » Mon Nov 9, 2015 5:02 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
sunskerr wrote:On the subject of development...

Anyone think Bledsoe has made the leap to all star now?

I a conference that has CP3, Steph, Westbrook, Harden, and Lillard do I think he'll make the all-star team? Probably not. But I do think he's playing at an all-star caliber lever.

Revived · Post #179 » by **Revived** » Mon Nov 9, 2015 5:03 am

SF88 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
sunskerr wrote:On the subject of development...

Anyone think Bledsoe has made the leap to all star now?

I a conference that has CP3, Steph, Westbrook, Harden, and Lillard do I think he'll make the all-star team? Probably not. But I do think he's playing at an all-star caliber lever.

He's better than Lillard IMO who I find extremely overrated.

I think Klay's probably ahead of him too in terms of all star votes. Maybe Wiggins as well.

MrMiyagi · Post #180 » by **MrMiyagi** » Mon Nov 9, 2015 5:14 am

SF88 wrote:
SF88 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:I a conference that has CP3, Steph, Westbrook, Harden, and Lillard do I think he'll make the all-star team? Probably not. But I do think he's playing at an all-star caliber lever.

He's better than Lillard IMO who I find extremely overrated.

I think Klay's probably ahead of him too in terms of all star votes. Maybe Wiggins as well.

Forgot Klay... I added Lillard because no one votes All-Star games for defense. If he keeps scoring in the high 20s, Lillard will get a lot of votes.