2016 Draft Thread Part 4

[LukasBMW]

I'm stoked if Brown goes #3. That means we can't make a mistake and grab him. He came off cocky in his interview. Chriss came off confident and willing to work hard.

Chriss also has unbelievable athletic potential. He's got Gerald Green hops in a PF body.

I agree that the Shawn Marion comparisons are ridiculous. Chriss compares better to another Shawn named Kemp.

I've never been too impressed with Bender. I worry about his speed at the next level. I feel like he could get lit up by guys like Chriss or even Keef if Keef isn't smoking bowls before the game.

Guards are cheap right now and we have 3 on our roster that are borderline allstars. I'm all in for a PF of the future. Chriss!

[bwgood77]

Marquese Chriss with the 4th pick.. He's a taller bigger Shawn Marion..


Then with the 13th pick, Deyonta Davis who is a Tristen Thompson .

I dont get the marion comparisons at all. Did any of you guys doing this actually ever watch marion play? Im not even touching the rebounding part of it.

That was my first thought. Marion was a great rebounder, though I guess he was a really good offensive rebounder which Chriss isn't bad at.

[Cactus Jack]

Chriss compares better to another Shawn named Kemp.

[Mustinjo]

Don't evaluate players based on YouTube highlights please, try to watch whole games instead, you'll get much better picture about someone's game that way.

[saintEscaton]

I agree when viewing them both as 2 guard prospects. The question with Murray is could he be a point in the NBA. His numbers in college would say it's unlikely he could be a point but he also wasn't asked to be the point so it's not a forgone conclusion that he can't. With that said if the suns are drafting someone as a future pg they might as well take Dunn.

Coach Cal actually give him the reigns to start the season because he showed promise running the point in the Pan Am games/ Nike EYBL. The results? UK dropped out of the AP Top 25 for the first time in 2 year and Murray failed to break even registered a assist tot turnover ratio less than 1 and Ulis was given his job back.Murray's assist percentage was below average even for a wing , although he was asked to do a little more playmaking, he was dreadful in transition and isn't someone you want pushing the break or trying to collapse a D

Lol this narrative you're trying to spin is funny, where in the world do you get some of your information? Kentucky was never once outside of the AP Top 25 all year, not sure where you're getting that from. Kentucky was actually top 5 all year until week 7, so if he had the reins at the beginning of the season like you're trying to say, he must have been doing just fine. The only time they were close to being out of the top 25 was late in the season. If you look at his splits by month, the only months that he had a A:TO below 1 were January and February, when he was strictly off the ball, which doesn't really fit your narrative either... It's been beat to death that scoring was his only job on a Kentucky team that otherwise couldn't score worth squat, bringing up how he has a low AST% doesn't mean much. He flashed playmaking ability, the question is if he can do it consistently. Regardless, I struggled to believe he ever truly had the reins to the offense considering Tyler Ulis started every single game but one this year, which he sat out of.

Murray 18 turnover to 12 assists in the month of December, so not really. I vividly remember his stinker of a game vs Lousiville. Sorry yes Kentucky never fell out of the 25 but did they did drop all the way to 23 in Week 11 under his helm (mid season January 18 ) following an upset on the road vs Auburn. Murray exclusively played off the ball early February.

[saintEscaton]

Chriss compares better to another Shawn named Kemp.

Brice Johnson is the Matrix Reloaded because of his second jump abilities

[JMac1]

Don't evaluate players based on YouTube highlights please, try to watch whole games instead, you'll get much better picture about someone's game that way.

Exactly. I watched Duke, LSU, UK, OU, and Providence exclusively this past season. I dvr'd all the games that were on ESPN, thank you very much. Go to the draft board. I was posting about those guys during the games.

I had to convince myself to not like Buddy because of all of the he is a senior talk, but his highlight REMINDED me why I liked him so much.

If you watched the games you should be a Murray, Hield, Ingram, Dunnn and somewhat Simmons' fan. I never watched Brown or Chriss, too boring for me.

[bwgood77]

Can you imagine if you are the TWolves and you are sitting there at #5, and if this plays out as people are talking right now, they may have a choice between Dunn, Hield, Murray and Bender at 5. That seems pretty crazy.

[saintEscaton]

Can you imagine if you are the TWolves and you are sitting there at #5, and if this plays out as people are talking right now, they may have a choice between Dunn, Hield, Murray and Bender at 5. That seems pretty crazy.

We are taking a leap of faith believing that one of these poo platter prospects actually pan out and live up to the billing of franchise cornerstones. Whereas the TWolves are all set and just need a glue guy as a finishing piece to put their core over the top.

[GopherIt!]

crazy right? My gut says 'no' on Bender. I'm thinking trade down w Denver for 7/19 (if Nugs r locked in on one of Murray or Hield.)

[NTB]

Can you imagine if you are the TWolves and you are sitting there at #5, and if this plays out as people are talking right now, they may have a choice between Dunn, Hield, Murray and Bender at 5. That seems pretty crazy.

We are taking a leap of faith believing that one of these poo platter prospects actually pan out and live up to the billing of franchise cornerstones. Whereas the TWolves are all set and just need a glue guy as a finishing piece to put their core over the top.

They waited it for 12 seasons.

[NavLDO]

If Chriss is the pick I think it is a sign that we are going into full rebuild mode over rearm mode (what we have been doing the last couple years). I think we will see Chandler, Knight, Tucker and maybe even Bledsoe gone from the team before the start of next year.

So, if you are McD, and you take Chriss, very well knowing he's a project, and he does 'trade off' some Vets like Tucker, Knight, or Bledsoe, does he have full support and backing from Sarver? Does Watson get a 'reprieve' this year from McD and Sarver knowing our team is going to be young, inexperienced, and possibly REALLY bad? Or does Sarver fire the lot of them?

If I'm McD, and I've sat down with Sarver and explained "my" plan for rebuilding the Suns into a potential contender in 2-3 years, and Sarver reluctantly goes along with it, then yes, I could see him picking Chriss.

If McD has NOT been given those assurances, then I'm taking the most pro-ready prospect at 4 and 13, so maybe Dunn/Hield and Sabonis/Prince/Valentine, and getting them in early and often.

So basically, what I'm saying, is if McD is going full rebuild, like you suggest (which I agree with), and he's given maybe a 3 year 'window' from Sarver to build the team properly, I think out Class looks something like:

Chriss/Bender @ 4 ; Skal/Korkmaz/Diallo @ 13 ; Juancho Hernangomez/Zhou Qi/Dejounte Murray @ 28 ; and Thon Maker/Petr Cornelie @ 34.

If not, and Sarver says, "I want to win now; you have this season to turn us into a playoff team." Then I think our class looks like (assuming we keep our picks, which I would doubt we do if McD's given that ultimatum) this:

Dunn/Hield @ 4 ; Valentine/Prince/D. Jackson @ 13 ; Bembry/Johnson @ 28 ; and Brogdon/Carter Jr./LeVert @ 34.

But I am 100% in agreement that what we do with our 4th pick will be very telling into what direction this team is headed next season.

[Cactus Jack]

Can you imagine if you are the TWolves and you are sitting there at #5, and if this plays out as people are talking right now, they may have a choice between Dunn, Hield, Murray and Bender at 5. That seems pretty crazy.

We are taking a leap of faith believing that one of these poo platter prospects actually pan out and live up to the billing of franchise cornerstones. Whereas the TWolves are all set and just need a glue guy as a finishing piece to put their core over the top.

Minnesota no doubt is in a good spot. If they get another stud with their pick= team of the future. Towns/Wiggins/Buddy? Hmm...I could have a new favorite team.

[bwgood77]

crazy right? My gut says 'no' on Bender. I'm thinking trade down w Denver for 7/19 (if Nugs r locked in on one of Murray or Hield.)

Phoenix trading down or Minnesota trading down?

[bwgood77]

If Chriss is the pick I think it is a sign that we are going into full rebuild mode over rearm mode (what we have been doing the last couple years). I think we will see Chandler, Knight, Tucker and maybe even Bledsoe gone from the team before the start of next year.

So, if you are McD, and you take Chriss, very well knowing he's a project, and he does 'trade off' some Vets like Tucker, Knight, or Bledsoe, does he have full support and backing from Sarver? Does Watson get a 'reprieve' this year from McD and Sarver knowing our team is going to be young, inexperienced, and possibly REALLY bad? Or does Sarver fire the lot of them?

If I'm McD, and I've sat down with Sarver and explained "my" plan for rebuilding the Suns into a potential contender in 2-3 years, and Sarver reluctantly goes along with it, then yes, I could see him picking Chriss.

If McD has NOT been given those assurances, then I'm taking the most pro-ready prospect at 4 and 13, so maybe Dunn/Hield and Sabonis/Prince/Valentine, and getting them in early and often.

So basically, what I'm saying, is if McD is going full rebuild, like you suggest (which I agree with), and he's given maybe a 3 year 'window' from Sarver to build the team properly, I think out Class looks something like:

Chriss/Bender @ 4 ; Skal/Korkmaz/Diallo @ 13 ; Juancho Hernangomez/Zhou Qi/Dejounte Murray @ 28 ; and Thon Maker/Petr Cornelie @ 34.

If not, and Sarver says, "I want to win now; you have this season to turn us into a playoff team." Then I think our class looks like (assuming we keep our picks, which I would doubt we do if McD's given that ultimatum) this:

Dunn/Hield @ 4 ; Valentine/Prince/D. Jackson @ 13 ; Bembry/Johnson @ 28 ; and Brogdon/Carter Jr./LeVert @ 34.

But I am 100% in agreement that what we do with or 4th pick will be very telling into what direction this team is headed next season.

I think no matter who he picks, Sarver will want them to try and be competitive this season. Now if they trade Bledsoe THEN I might start thinking Sarver is really embracing a rebuild.

[LukasBMW]

I see no reason why both Sarver ("win now goddamnit") and McDonough ("rebuild properly") can' "have their cake and eat it to" if we have some reasonable good luck.

After the draft our youngsters:
-Archie
-Booker
-#4
-#13
-#28
-TJ
-Len
-BB

Vets:
-Bledsoe
-Knight
-Tucker
-Chandedler
-Free Agent 1
-Free Agent 2

I absolutely think that with the right free agent signings and/or a trade, we can put a product on the floor that can compete for the 6th-8th seed AND develop our young players.

[NavLDO]

Bottomline, to argue against Hield is ludicrous (Speed). I am not going back an forth about Buddy. He is a baller, period!

...for only 1 out of 4 seasons...he was very 'average' his Sophomore/Junior seasons, and 'below average' his Freshman season.

So go ahead and 'shut-down' any further discussion on Hield, but he's not 'Superman' and 'choked' pretty hard on the biggest stage of his career against Villanova in the Final Four. He has 'holes' in his game, just like a lot of other prospects. His defense is 'meh' his PPR and A/TO declined EVERY YEAR--his worst overall season as a Freshman was his BEST season for those metrics. His A/TO, from Freshman to Senior went: 1.14, 1.03, .99, .66 ; his PPR went -1.62, -1.80, -2.10, -4.85.

And it was noted yesterday, I think by Ford, that history is not on Hield's side for success in the NBA for those that were average players, then suddenly had one outlier season. When your TS% and eFG% go from .55 and .51 respectively, in his Junior Season, to .67 and .62 as a Senior--that is an outlier, and not one I personally am taking stock in, in being an accurate reflection of how he'll perform in the NBA.

So I'm not sure why you feel that Hield is a 'can't miss prospect' and will be the BPA at 4 when we pick, but it's not a 'slam-dunk' case for Hield.

[TeamTragic]

crazy right? My gut says 'no' on Bender. I'm thinking trade down w Denver for 7/19 (if Nugs r locked in on one of Murray or Hield.)

Why would we trade down and help Denver? I think you mean Minnesota.

[GopherIt!]

crazy right? My gut says 'no' on Bender. I'm thinking trade down w Denver for 7/19 (if Nugs r locked in on one of Murray or Hield.)

Phoenix trading down or Minnesota trading down?

Minny. I like the Criss pick for u guys.

[bwgood77]

Bottomline, to argue against Hield is ludicrous (Speed). I am not going back an forth about Buddy. He is a baller, period!

...for only 1 out of 4 seasons...he was very 'average' his Sophomore/Junior seasons, and 'below average' his Freshman season.

So go ahead and 'shut-down' any further discussion on Hield, but he's not 'Superman' and 'choked' pretty hard on the biggest stage of his career against Villanova in the Final Four. He has 'holes' in his game, just like a lot of other prospects. His defense is 'meh' his PPR and A/TO declined EVERY YEAR--his worst overall season as a Freshman was his BEST season for those metrics. His A/TO, from Freshman to Senior went: 1.14, 1.03, .99, .66 ; his PPR went -1.62, -1.80, -2.10, -4.85.

And it was noted yesterday, I think by Ford, that history is not on Hield's side for success in the NBA for those that were average players, then suddenly had one outlier season. When your TS% and eFG% go from .55 and .51 respectively, in his Junior Season, to .67 and .62 as a Senior--that is an outlier, and not one I personally am taking stock in, in being an accurate reflection of how he'll perform in the NBA.

So I'm not sure why you feel that Hield is a 'can't miss prospect' and will be the BPA at 4 when we pick, but it's not a 'slam-dunk' case for Hield.

Hield was also a BEAST as a HS Senior. Not great his first three years in HS, but by the time he is one of the oldest and most experienced guys on the floor he can DOMINATE! I expect based on this trend, that by the time he is an elder statesman in the league, if he lasts, he will feast on the youngens coming in! Can't wait! Dude's a baller.