Season speculation, free agency, and trade ideas: #ValleyBoyz rise up

[Walt_Uoob]

If we still have our current front office come draft time and don't get blown away by a trade offer, Clarke seems like the type of player these guys would pick. Jones says the draft is a crapshoot, so I assume he'd lean toward players with a couple of years of proven production. Plus we presumably have a file on him from McD days. I like the sound of him.

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[suns12345]

If we still have our current front office come draft time and don't get blown away by a trade offer, Clarke seems like the type of player these guys would pick. Jones says the draft is a crapshoot, so I assume he'd lean toward players with a couple of years of proven production. Plus we presumably have a file on him from McD days. I like the sound of him.

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https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2019/3/8/18226283/brandon-clarke-gonzaga-nba-draft-2019-duke-highlights-stats

This article has two consecutive videos showing his old shooting form at San Jose vs his new one at Gonzaga... Much improved, which is encouraging.

[bwgood77]

I already don't appreciate his contract strictly because he cant stay on the floor. Someone did the math a few days ago and basically we are paying him 16m a year with all the games he's missed. The guy misses literal months with small injuries.

Book's had a rough time staying on the floor the last couple years too.

TJ's really only had two significant injuries. And one reason he didn't play was because Hornacek didn't play him his rookie season except for garbage minutes until about 65 games into the season.

His second year he started playing him but midway through he broke his foot and needed surgery.

His third year with the "head injury" you yourself know that wasn't an injury but the training staff messing him up with fluid treatment putting him in the hospital.

Last year he sat because we were tanking.

Then this year the bone bruise.

He's really only had two real injuries that sidelined him for awhile, in early 2016 and early 2019...other than some minor things where he has sat a game or two.

I've never heard that before.....is that confirmed?

Either way; small or major or 'real', he misses a ton of games. Games other players are playing in his stead, taking advantage of their increased PT and has us questioning whether TJ is a liability (health-wise), expendable and perhaps not on as much of a value deal as we thought.

It's the truth. Anyway, I wouldn't blame him too much for Hornacek not playing him or sitting because we were tanking, or the training staff snafu.

Booker's missed 53 games this year and last as well. The fact is, we will have injuries. All players get them one time or another. TJ's had a couple, needing surgery on his foot in year two and then not anything keeping him out for an extended time until this year.

He's on a good contract and we have nice depth to afford an injury right now, and it's a good reason to keep at least 3 wings, especially if one is on a contract like TJ's and one is on a rookie deal like Bridges, as I'm sure everyone will deal with injuries at some point.

Now JJ is likely worth dealing since we are overall quite a bit worse with him on the floor, but I'm not sure he will have much interest.

It might be worth dealing TJ if he we have a great offer for him (but that goes without saying for anyone), but as you say, since you are so concerned about his injuries, other teams might be too, so it might be selling low if we were to deal him.

[lilfishi22]

If we still have our current front office come draft time and don't get blown away by a trade offer, Clarke seems like the type of player these guys would pick. Jones says the draft is a crapshoot, so I assume he'd lean toward players with a couple of years of proven production. Plus we presumably have a file on him from McD days. I like the sound of him.

Sent from my moto x4 using RealGM mobile app

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2019/3/8/18226283/brandon-clarke-gonzaga-nba-draft-2019-duke-highlights-stats

This article has two consecutive videos showing his old shooting form at San Jose vs his new one at Gonzaga... Much improved, which is encouraging.

Still feels like a good role player to me

[lilfishi22]

Book's had a rough time staying on the floor the last couple years too.

TJ's really only had two significant injuries. And one reason he didn't play was because Hornacek didn't play him his rookie season except for garbage minutes until about 65 games into the season.

His second year he started playing him but midway through he broke his foot and needed surgery.

His third year with the "head injury" you yourself know that wasn't an injury but the training staff messing him up with fluid treatment putting him in the hospital.

Last year he sat because we were tanking.

Then this year the bone bruise.

He's really only had two real injuries that sidelined him for awhile, in early 2016 and early 2019...other than some minor things where he has sat a game or two.

I've never heard that before.....is that confirmed?

Either way; small or major or 'real', he misses a ton of games. Games other players are playing in his stead, taking advantage of their increased PT and has us questioning whether TJ is a liability (health-wise), expendable and perhaps not on as much of a value deal as we thought.

It's the truth. Anyway, I wouldn't blame him too much for Hornacek not playing him or sitting because we were tanking, or the training staff snafu.

Booker's missed 53 games this year and last as well. The fact is, we will have injuries. All players get them one time or another. TJ's had a couple, needing surgery on his foot in year two and then not anything keeping him out for an extended time until this year.

He's on a good contract and we have nice depth to afford an injury right now, and it's a good reason to keep at least 3 wings, especially if one is on a contract like TJ's and one is on a rookie deal like Bridges, as I'm sure everyone will deal with injuries at some point.

Now JJ is likely worth dealing since we are overall quite a bit worse with him on the floor, but I'm not sure he will have much interest.

It might be worth dealing TJ if he we have a great offer for him (but that goes without saying for anyone), but as you say, since you are so concerned about his injuries, other teams might be too, so it might be selling low if we were to deal him.

I'm not doubting you but why was it never talked about? Everyone seemed to have been in the dark until you brought it up. Do you have anymore detail on it? I'm curious to know since it's been one of the biggest mysteries we've dealt with for the last few years.

Booker is injury prone as well. We give players on other teams crap all the time for not being able to stay on the floor but our guys are the same. I'm not saying I'm concerned about TJ's injuries, I'm stating the fact that he is injury prone and that his contract might not be as good as we thought. Didn't say anything about dealing him.

The guy is 25, not 32. If he was 32 then I can understand keeping him out because he probably can't play but he's young and he should be playing. If he's not healthy enough to play, regardless of the circumstances, then he's prone to injuries.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If we still have our current front office come draft time and don't get blown away by a trade offer, Clarke seems like the type of player these guys would pick. Jones says the draft is a crapshoot, so I assume he'd lean toward players with a couple of years of proven production. Plus we presumably have a file on him from McD days. I like the sound of him.

Sent from my moto x4 using RealGM mobile app

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2019/3/8/18226283/brandon-clarke-gonzaga-nba-draft-2019-duke-highlights-stats

This article has two consecutive videos showing his old shooting form at San Jose vs his new one at Gonzaga... Much improved, which is encouraging.

Still feels like a good role player to me

Which would be a better result than 2 of the last 3 guys they took top 5

And 3 of 4 if you don't consider Len a good role player but I kind of do so I left him off.

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[lilfishi22]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2019/3/8/18226283/brandon-clarke-gonzaga-nba-draft-2019-duke-highlights-stats

This article has two consecutive videos showing his old shooting form at San Jose vs his new one at Gonzaga... Much improved, which is encouraging.

Still feels like a good role player to me

Which would be a better result than 2 of the last 3 guys they took top 5

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Can't compare the last few seasons and say, hey we whiffed on some potential star players, let's go the complete opposite and just take a good role player.

[Kerrsed]

For anyone who hasnt heard, say goodbye to any thought that anyone had about going after Green in the offseason.

Read on Twitter

[WeekapaugGroove]

For anyone who hasnt heard, say goodbye to any thought that anyone had about going after Green in the offseason.

Read on Twitter

Good. I really do not expect him to age well.

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[suns12345]

For anyone who hasnt heard, say goodbye to any thought that anyone had about going after Green in the offseason.

Read on Twitter

Good. I really do not expect him to age well.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

His offense is non existent this year. Not that it was ever great but he's missing layups now.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Still feels like a good role player to me

Which would be a better result than 2 of the last 3 guys they took top 5

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Can't compare the last few seasons and say, hey we whiffed on some potential star players, let's go the complete opposite and just take a good role player.

I agree in principal I'm just not sure that star potential will be there in this draft if they pick past 3. And hell i'm not even sold on anyone really past Zion.

[suns12345]

Still feels like a good role player to me

Which would be a better result than 2 of the last 3 guys they took top 5

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Can't compare the last few seasons and say, hey we whiffed on some potential star players, let's go the complete opposite and just take a good role player.

Equally getting good role players outside the top 5 is arguably a good result. Not every player you draft will be a superstar and not every player on a team can be a star.

Good role player doesn't mean bench player either. JJ Reddick for example is a role player but has been a started on many successful teams. Draymond Green is arguably a role player. Both of whom you'd happily draft at picks 5-10

[lilfishi22]

Which would be a better result than 2 of the last 3 guys they took top 5

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Can't compare the last few seasons and say, hey we whiffed on some potential star players, let's go the complete opposite and just take a good role player.

I agree in principal I'm just not sure that star potential will be there in this draft if they pick past 3. And hell i'm not even sold on anyone really past Zion.

If we pick past 3, I'm fine with a pretty good role player.

[bwgood77]

I've never heard that before.....is that confirmed?

Either way; small or major or 'real', he misses a ton of games. Games other players are playing in his stead, taking advantage of their increased PT and has us questioning whether TJ is a liability (health-wise), expendable and perhaps not on as much of a value deal as we thought.

It's the truth. Anyway, I wouldn't blame him too much for Hornacek not playing him or sitting because we were tanking, or the training staff snafu.

Booker's missed 53 games this year and last as well. The fact is, we will have injuries. All players get them one time or another. TJ's had a couple, needing surgery on his foot in year two and then not anything keeping him out for an extended time until this year.

He's on a good contract and we have nice depth to afford an injury right now, and it's a good reason to keep at least 3 wings, especially if one is on a contract like TJ's and one is on a rookie deal like Bridges, as I'm sure everyone will deal with injuries at some point.

Now JJ is likely worth dealing since we are overall quite a bit worse with him on the floor, but I'm not sure he will have much interest.

It might be worth dealing TJ if he we have a great offer for him (but that goes without saying for anyone), but as you say, since you are so concerned about his injuries, other teams might be too, so it might be selling low if we were to deal him.

I'm not doubting you but why was it never talked about? Everyone seemed to have been in the dark until you brought it up. Do you have anymore detail on it? I'm curious to know since it's been one of the biggest mysteries we've dealt with for the last few years.

Booker is injury prone as well. We give players on other teams crap all the time for not being able to stay on the floor but our guys are the same. I'm not saying I'm concerned about TJ's injuries, I'm stating the fact that he is injury prone and that his contract might not be as good as we thought. Didn't say anything about dealing him.

The guy is 25, not 32. If he was 32 then I can understand keeping him out because he probably can't play but he's young and he should be playing. If he's not healthy enough to play, regardless of the circumstances, then he's prone to injuries.

Well it was more inside info that was not supposed to get out, but I have mentioned it a couple times since then. It came from someone close to members on the staff (or who were on the staff at the time). The details were not that he got injured, but that his body had a bad reaction to some fluids the training staff gave him, possibly by mistake, and he ended up in the hospital for awhile. If you remember, they would never elaborate on what it was...minor head injury.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'd rather guys completely heal before they play. Booker kept coming back and reinjuring himself or using the excuse of playing injured...only said recently he felt healthy...playing injured doesn't do your team or you any favors.

His contract his a good deal though. It's a number on the cap for what a player provides. Our season was lost before he sat (though going like 0-14 right after this recent injury didn't help) but we were not going anywhere and have better draft position.

This is his first year on his contract so it's not really much of a big deal. Now if he continues to get injured it won't be good, but it's not like these are the same re-occurring injuries.

[WeekapaugGroove]

For anyone who hasnt heard, say goodbye to any thought that anyone had about going after Green in the offseason.

Read on Twitter

Good. I really do not expect him to age well.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

His offense is non existent this year. Not that it was ever great but he's missing layups now.

Simmons and Russillo were talking about this a couple weeks back and I agree with their take. A guy like Green has a lot of miles banging with bigger dudes and his game is so dependent and playing with reckless abandon and fire that it's hard to sustain that long term. They mentioned Ben Wallace as an example of a guy like this who kind of fell off a cliff later in this career. Now if they could get Green on a reasonable deal then sure but paying him $25M per year next summer is a super frightening proposition for any team.

Side note I doubt the Suns are on some black list of Klutch franchises. They had the issue with Bledsoe but ultimately did trade him so not sure why they would hold a grudge.

[lilfishi22]

Which would be a better result than 2 of the last 3 guys they took top 5

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Can't compare the last few seasons and say, hey we whiffed on some potential star players, let's go the complete opposite and just take a good role player.

Equally getting good role players outside the top 5 is arguably a good result. Not every player you draft will be a superstar and not every player on a team can be a star.

Good role player doesn't mean bench player either. JJ Reddick for example is a role player but has been a started on many successful teams. Draymond Green is arguably a role player. Both of whom you'd happily draft at picks 5-10

No one is arguing that getting a good role player is always bad result. It's just relative to where they are picked and expectations. I've seen BW consider Clarke as high as #2 when there's guys like Morant and and RJ out there with real star potential. I'm just not sure I can have a role player potential player like Clarke as BPA in the top 3 if Morant and RJ are available. But that's really just my subjective projection of Clarke right now

[bwgood77]

If we still have our current front office come draft time and don't get blown away by a trade offer, Clarke seems like the type of player these guys would pick. Jones says the draft is a crapshoot, so I assume he'd lean toward players with a couple of years of proven production. Plus we presumably have a file on him from McD days. I like the sound of him.

Sent from my moto x4 using RealGM mobile app

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2019/3/8/18226283/brandon-clarke-gonzaga-nba-draft-2019-duke-highlights-stats

This article has two consecutive videos showing his old shooting form at San Jose vs his new one at Gonzaga... Much improved, which is encouraging.

Still feels like a good role player to me

I agree. I think he'd be a good role player....probably really good, like one of best PF defenders in the NBA. But everyone in this draft after Zion and MAYBE Barrett and to a lesser extent, Morant, will likely be a role player.

I mean only the big time scorers are considered stars and the premier defenders are typically underrated...guys like Draymond, Covington, and even Marion back in the day.....all considered role players but all have huge impact..more than most think.

[Blonde]

You already know what’s going to happen with Draymond/Klutch. This summer they will beg for an extension because it’s the best chance he has of getting another big deal. If/when Durant leaves and Klay stays they will probably give it to him. If not, they’ll demand a trade. I certainly don’t think he’s washed yet, but his all star level days are behind him. He can be an important player on a playoff team into his 30s like Marion was.

[lilfishi22]

It's the truth. Anyway, I wouldn't blame him too much for Hornacek not playing him or sitting because we were tanking, or the training staff snafu.

Booker's missed 53 games this year and last as well. The fact is, we will have injuries. All players get them one time or another. TJ's had a couple, needing surgery on his foot in year two and then not anything keeping him out for an extended time until this year.

He's on a good contract and we have nice depth to afford an injury right now, and it's a good reason to keep at least 3 wings, especially if one is on a contract like TJ's and one is on a rookie deal like Bridges, as I'm sure everyone will deal with injuries at some point.

Now JJ is likely worth dealing since we are overall quite a bit worse with him on the floor, but I'm not sure he will have much interest.

It might be worth dealing TJ if he we have a great offer for him (but that goes without saying for anyone), but as you say, since you are so concerned about his injuries, other teams might be too, so it might be selling low if we were to deal him.

I'm not doubting you but why was it never talked about? Everyone seemed to have been in the dark until you brought it up. Do you have anymore detail on it? I'm curious to know since it's been one of the biggest mysteries we've dealt with for the last few years.

Booker is injury prone as well. We give players on other teams crap all the time for not being able to stay on the floor but our guys are the same. I'm not saying I'm concerned about TJ's injuries, I'm stating the fact that he is injury prone and that his contract might not be as good as we thought. Didn't say anything about dealing him.

The guy is 25, not 32. If he was 32 then I can understand keeping him out because he probably can't play but he's young and he should be playing. If he's not healthy enough to play, regardless of the circumstances, then he's prone to injuries.

Well it was more inside info that was not supposed to get out, but I have mentioned it a couple times since then. It came from someone close to members on the staff (or who were on the staff at the time). The details were not that he got injured, but that his body had a bad reaction to some fluids the training staff gave him, possibly by mistake, and he ended up in the hospital for awhile. If you remember, they would never elaborate on what it was...minor head injury.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'd rather guys completely heal before they play. Booker kept coming back and reinjuring himself or using the excuse of playing injured...only said recently he felt healthy...playing injured doesn't do your team or you any favors.

His contract his a good deal though. It's a number on the cap for what a player provides. Our season was lost before he sat (though going like 0-14 right after this recent injury didn't help) but we were not going anywhere and have better draft position.

This is his first year on his contract so it's not really much of a big deal. Now if he continues to get injured it won't be good, but it's not like these are the same re-occurring injuries.

Injury prone is different to injury risk. Injury risk is the chance of a known and commonly reoccurring injury happening. Ankles for example is a common one. Then injury prone jst describes a player that gets injured (whether it's the same one or a different one) at high frequency.

So it doesn't matter if those injuries are unrelated to each other, the fact that he's having those injuries is what makes him injury prone. And ultimately, you're either on the court or not. You can attribute his non-playing to a million things but if he's not on the court and the reason is not DNP-CD or DNP-Rest then it's an injury taking him out. A player is expected to play 82 games, especially young players and just because we're not playing well or the season is 'lost', that doesn't mean they shouldn't be playing. If that's the case then all of our 'vets' should've sat by game 41 of the season when we were 9-32.

It's his first year of his new deal and he's played 43 games so far, that's a little over half a season. So if we're talking about the number of games players normally play (let's say missing 10 games is about average), then he's played 43/72 games, about 60% of games. Given his $11.75m salary and the number of games he's played, he's basically paid on par with a $20m player. He's good value when he plays but has no value when he doesn't, which is about 40% of the time.

[bwgood77]

I'm not doubting you but why was it never talked about? Everyone seemed to have been in the dark until you brought it up. Do you have anymore detail on it? I'm curious to know since it's been one of the biggest mysteries we've dealt with for the last few years.

Booker is injury prone as well. We give players on other teams crap all the time for not being able to stay on the floor but our guys are the same. I'm not saying I'm concerned about TJ's injuries, I'm stating the fact that he is injury prone and that his contract might not be as good as we thought. Didn't say anything about dealing him.

The guy is 25, not 32. If he was 32 then I can understand keeping him out because he probably can't play but he's young and he should be playing. If he's not healthy enough to play, regardless of the circumstances, then he's prone to injuries.

Well it was more inside info that was not supposed to get out, but I have mentioned it a couple times since then. It came from someone close to members on the staff (or who were on the staff at the time). The details were not that he got injured, but that his body had a bad reaction to some fluids the training staff gave him, possibly by mistake, and he ended up in the hospital for awhile. If you remember, they would never elaborate on what it was...minor head injury.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'd rather guys completely heal before they play. Booker kept coming back and reinjuring himself or using the excuse of playing injured...only said recently he felt healthy...playing injured doesn't do your team or you any favors.

His contract his a good deal though. It's a number on the cap for what a player provides. Our season was lost before he sat (though going like 0-14 right after this recent injury didn't help) but we were not going anywhere and have better draft position.

This is his first year on his contract so it's not really much of a big deal. Now if he continues to get injured it won't be good, but it's not like these are the same re-occurring injuries.

Injury prone is different to injury risk. Injury risk is the chance of a known and commonly reoccurring injury happening. Ankles for example is a common one. Then injury prone jst describes a player that gets injured (whether it's the same one or a different one) at high frequency.

So it doesn't matter if those injuries are unrelated to each other, the fact that he's having those injuries is what makes him injury prone. And ultimately, you're either on the court or not. You can attribute his non-playing to a million things but if he's not on the court and the reason is not DNP-CD or DNP-Rest then it's an injury taking him out. A player is expected to play 82 games, especially young players and just because we're not playing well or the season is 'lost', that doesn't mean they shouldn't be playing. If that's the case then all of our 'vets' should've sat by game 41 of the season when we were 9-32.

It's his first year of his new deal and he's played 43 games so far, that's a little over half a season. So if we're talking about the number of games players normally play (let's say missing 10 games is about average), then he's played 43/72 games, about 60% of games. Given his $11.75m salary and the number of games he's played, he's basically paid on par with a $20m player. He's good value when he plays but has no value when he doesn't, which is about 40% of the time.

I do understand math, I just don't think his time missed was much of a factor to this season or the fact that he was injured this season or a few seasons ago means he is destined to be injured in the future.

But it's fine to disagree here. I don't really want to get into some sort of big discussion about it.