2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[enigmatics]

How high is their ceiling, How much more could they improve realistically. We have two star caliber players on Booker and Ayton but neither are great enough to build a team around it was the addition of CP3 as a force multiplier, player's coach and facilitator that took us from a team that hadn't made the playoff in forever to the freakin' NBA Finals

I'm with you on this. He was clearly the X-factor along with DA's play in the WC playoffs. Monty's the coach on the sideline, but Paul was the coach on the court. I mean we know what this team looks like with the Rubio's of the world.

Given his age, it has a legitimate threat of being lightning in a bottle. Not to mention getting exposed the way he did with defenders in his hip pocket you know that teams are going to try to mirror that all year.

[Slim Charless]

We also once got a meeting with LeBron. Wasn't that cool?

Slightly different when you're playing and rooming with the dude for the next month, are the same age, and no doubt know each other. I'm happy you brought up LeBron though as the Heatles first were conceived in the Olympics that Wade, Bosh and Bron played in. Also I heard rumors that Kyrie and KD grew close in THEIR Olympics.....food for thought is all I'm saying.

Edit: So you're saying you'd rather have Mikal than Jason Tatum?

I'm saying that I doubt we have a shot at getting Tatum, and if we did, Boston would want Booker or Bridges in return anyway. Don't trade him in hopes that we can get Jayson Tatum later. Keep him. If Tatum becomes available, then make the move. This isn't rocket science. You don't throw away an excellent young guy who has improved each year in the league at the hope of potentially down the line adding someone who might not even ever be available to us.

You and BW are missing the point. Which is that Sarver won't pay (imo) 110 million for 4 players. Now, could he-at a later date be talked into forking over that extra cash for 1 of the best players in the league? Maybe. I don't see him doing it for Mikal. Hope I'm wrong but it might be best to sell high rather then see some other team max him and we can't (wont) match.

[DRK]

I dont think Mikal has hit his ceiling. His limited role has more to do with the scheme of the offence.

Hope he gets more touches next year and can get more touches next year with the second unit, while also provided 3+D with the starters.

I think Mikal has room to grow.

[bwgood77]

I have no idea why so many are blaming Paul and Monty for our failure to win last night, as well as our defense. We held them to 105 points. We only scored 98 - that sucks.

The reason we lost is because Devin Booker Crapped the Bed. 0 for 7 from three point land ain't legendary. He also made numerous other errors on offense and defense. With a great game from him we are playing game 7 in Phoenix on Thursday. 19 points doesn't cut it. He needed to have at least 30. That is how this team is currently built.

This team needs another legit scorer, our defense was fine on everyone not named Portis or Giannis. We also could use a big with a nasty attitude. Keep everyone else in the top eight. Craig need to be gone unless he wants the minimum. Where are his minutes going to come if we do get another big or Stix starts getting minutes?

To be fair, a couple of Booker's threes were late in the game, quick shots desperately trying to make up the deficit. Not legendary, no.

But as for the rest, we went to Book because no one else could do jack sh*t - and that includes, especially, Paul.

Too many of Paul's turnovers had nothing to do with the defense. He slipped and lost the ball down the stretch of game 4 and then made the exact same turnover in the 4th quarter last night. Those little mid-range jumpers weren't falling, and he passed up plenty of open threes from the top of the key. True, Booker couldn't carry us, but we went to him over and over because we had to. Ayton wasn't hitting, Paul wasn't getting anything, and Mikal can't (or allegedly, just doesn't) create his own shot.

The only way Paul doesn't deserve a big part of the blame for our finals losses is if you're blaming his wrist instead. But there's just no basis for claiming that he wasn't outplayed by opposing PGs in rounds 3 and 4 of these playoffs. As bw pointed out, he feasted on Denver's backups. He also killed Schroder. And no doubt he's the lynchpin that made this whole run possible. But am I eager to pay Paul what Jrue earns, and dramatically more than Reggie Jackson will get in free agency? Not eager, no. Resigned to it? Pretty much.

Truly, I'm not trying to demean him. I'm just saying it sucks to be hamstrung financially by a player I just watched get outplayed.

I have no idea what exactly you were doing while you were watching the game but Paul is the only guy who showed up offensively outside of Payne in limited minutes last night. He solely kept us in it. Paul and Payne led our big comeback in the 2nd to turn around that 13 pt 1st qtr deficit into a 5 pt lead at halftime.

As a matter of fact, based on play, Payne should have played with Paul more in the game based on what we saw. Booker starter 2-9 from the field and never could get anything going. I finally thought he might when he hit a couple mid range buckets, but it wouldn't hold.

He would try 3s, he would try to finish an easy lob fast break only to make it look difficult and miss, he would have dumb turnovers, whether it be throwing an easy fast break pass to Cam WAY over his head or trying to wiggle around start dribbling around Jrue when Jrue was all over him right in front of him...at least in the previous game where he blew our chance at the end he didn't see Jrue behind him..but last night he was right there.

Look, Booker had some great games in the finals and overall, going into last night's game, we were much better with him on the court. But last night was certainly not one of his finer moments. To be fair, no one played well.

But he honestly often looked like he was actively trying to take really hard shots....like a mid/long range would be there but he'd dribble in closer where there were 3 guys and turn it over, have Giannis block it, or just get stuck and not know what to do.

I have no idea what happened to crisp ball movement and quick decisions.

I was so happy with Booker's improved quicker decision making a couple series ago.our whole team looked great and then last night...just was ugly offensively.

I do agree Paul didn't do well with turnovers, but probably not the best game to bring up turnovers if you're saying Book was the only one doing anything..he had double the turnovers Paul did and shot under 40% while Paul was able to find his spots and take quick shots.

And I don't know where the Clips stuff is coming from. He had COVID. He did play poorly upon return but you could tell he was getting back to speed. Seems like you mentioned something about Reggie Jackson playing better when it really mattered and the stakes were high (maybe in another post).....well Paul had maybe his best playoff game closing them out with 41 on 16-24 shooting, 7/8 from 3, with 8 assists and 0 turnovers.

And in the finals....Jrue was phenomenal defensively. One of the best I've ever seen. He was great forcing turnovers.

But, despite playing a lot against Jrue, aside from the turnovers Paul had in a few of the games, he played well. I know we are used to barely any turnovers from the guy, but Jrue made it difficult. The whole defense did. Sometimes it would throw the ball handler out of sorts..and they make a bad pass..it happened with a lot of our players.

Anyway, aside from that, Paul shot very well outside of 1 bad game where he was like 5-13. He scored 22 ppg on 55% overall shooting and 55.2% from 3 with over 8 assists per game. Now those numbers are certainly not terrible.They are not even average. They are actually very very good. The turnovers not...he averaged around 3.5, that's still an ast/to ratio of most pretty good point guards. For example Luka averages 8.6 and 4.3...Trae is 9.4 and 4. Harden's averaged over 4 the last 9 years.

Anyway, his shooting splits were pretty spectacular actually, and he had a decent # of assists per game, near his season avg. Those shooting splits were definitely better than his season average or any series average outside of the Nuggets one. And this is against a premier defense.

He got to his spots quickly and took quick shots.

Jrue had the phenomenal defense and was a very good passer, but his shooting was putrid. He shot 36% overall and 31% from 3. He had a 44% TS%. I don't know if you know how bad that is, but it's bad. Paul's was over 62%

I suppose you can say Jrue outplayed him because of his exceptional defense, but I think it's a little shortsighted. Jrue was an exceptional defender and was very impressive, especially the way he frustrated Booker and Paul...and anyone he was guarding.

Anyway, it seems like a contingent of people want to blame Paul. It seems like the voices get louder anti Paul after a bad Booker moment or game..as if to deflect.

I can't defend Ayton though. He crapped the bed on offense last night. Badly. I don't know what he could have done on defense. His positioning and effort mostly looked good but it didn't matter.

[darealjuice]

I wouldn't actively be looking to trade Mikal. He made a pretty significant jump offensively this year while still getting votes for the All Defensive teams. He can be a really good player if he continues to improve his ball handling and scoring off the dribble. He's also an excellent fit with Booker and Ayton. Obviously you have to consider it if you can package him into a star point guard or wing, but I think he's earned his money.

[sunskerr]

I have no idea what happened to crisp ball movement and quick decisions.

Part of this is reffing. This isn't going to be a blame the refs post, but the fact is that the difference between the way games are called in the season and in the post season means games are going to be different and so the strategy behind them will change, too.

This is what happened to the Warriors when they made their runs (pre-KD). Teams are allowed to get more physical, and so the more physically dominant players that you have (provided they are actually skillful), you are going to benefit more from the physicality.

This is why Curry has up and down games in the playoffs. He's not actually "choking", he's just doing what he does every game except he's getting beat up and pushed, knocked around more. The same thing happened to the Warriors ball movement in 2015 and 2016- the game becomes more physical so you can push everyone around and hold them if you are strong, which makes moving off ball much more difficult as well. If that reminds you of anything, it's because it just happened to us.

This is why it is important to have guys who are able to negate that change in playstyle with their physical attributes. Guys like KD, LeBron, Kawhi, and Giannis are absolutely huge players that have absurd physical advantages in size and athleticism over guys while also being skilled, and so you cannot take away very much from them if you try to bump them and hold them.

If you look at our roster, we have nobody at that level. Luckily Devin Booker is pretty insane but when the ball movement breaks down, our offense is literally going to be just him at some points, which is what we saw in the finals and at some points during the Lakers series. Milwaukee is big and strong with guys like Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue - it was always going to be hard when they are literally stronger than us. AD and LeBron were working us in the same way.

We also were able to take things away from Milwaukee, but Giannis is an all time great and can deal with the break down of his team's offense with his physicality, and that took some pressure off Middleton who was then able to make the shots outside of the normal flow of Milwaukee's offense. This is why I believe it is worthwhile in looking to see if we can get another guy who can get their own shot, so teams can't just bum rush Booker every time the play breaks down. We might not have someone at Giannis/LeBron etc. level but maybe we can mitigate the impact of increased physicality by pairing Booker with another guy who can be a shot creating threat.

[ray ray]

The biggest acquisition IMO will be the development of Cam Johnson and Mikal Bridges ..

If they can somehow start to create shots for themselves and not be so depended on others, we’ll be hard to stop .

However, the Only player I would trade Mikal for is Tatum .. and the Only player I would trade Ayton for is Embid ..

[Cutter]

I love Mikal Bridges a lot (he is a great kid!!!!) , but I only keep him based on the salary he is asking. Suns should not pay him in the 20+ million range, but somewhere in the teens would be ok...maybe.

But I would include him (in a heartbeat) in a trade for a star wing player. We need another player, besides Book and CP, who can create their own shot.

[bwgood77]

Feelings are basically the same as others in here:

We need another guy who can get his own shot. Maybe a back up big depending on Smiths development. I'd be open to trading Mikal if it got us that extra shot creator...just depends on who it is. Not that I really want to trade him, but he's probably our most movable asset.

Not having that extra scorer was something that kinda plagued us all year, regular season included, to be honest as after Booker (25 ppg) our next highest ppg was Paul (16 ppg).

This isn't a knock on Chris Paul. It's just not his game to constantly take over and score, and he did do well (21 ppg in finals iirc) all things considered. But there were a lot of moments he was looking too hard to pass the ball which cost us possessions, and we were depending on both him and Booker to constantly go off and have big games against a tough and physical Milwaukee team and it's tough to do that with only two guys who can get their own shot. If we had a 3rd guy we'd have been ok. As Paul gets older it will be important to bump him down in the scoring order as he gets older.

I think with the Nets coming on next year, the extra scorer will be important. They're probably steamrolling everyone if their big 3 are healthy, since no other team can keep up with that.

I think Bridges will add more, and has been working on it. I heard in an interview with him not too long ago that he likes to add different things to his game and what he had been working on and wanted to continue in the offseason was creating his own shot more. You have already seen him do it some..working in the mid range.

I think eventually he could kind of be the 2nd go to guy after Book, but then you have to think of Ayton, but basically you could have them as the 1-2-3 and I would say Paul could be the 4th scorer but it's tough because Paul is one of the best most clutch mid range guys in the game, so it's almost like Nash not shooting enough if he doesn't shoot.

I am not sure what kind of shot distribution you would want, but right now Book has 19.2 shots per game, Paul 12.6, Ayton 10, Bridges 9.3. Looking at their makes vs attempts it appears with a quick head calc that Book and Paul score about 1.3 PPS (points per shot) while Ayton is about 1.4 and Bridges a tad under 1.45. I imagine Bridges' PPS would come down a little once he started shooting more in the midrange...creating his own shot.

Ideally you might want to take maybe 4 of Book's shots and distribute them to Ayton and Bridges maybe? I mean how many scorers do you want? Do people really want Book to shoot less? Do they want Paul to take fewer when he is money from where he shoots?

It's funny thinking about Bridges and how his 42.5% 3pt% and 80% finishing at the rim (66.7% TS%)...is like tailor made for Morey ball...and Philly traded him.

Actually looking deeper into his shooting splits he is actually solid in the mid range....51% from 3-10 ft, 49% from 10-16 ft, and 39% from 16ft-3pt...that last one not so good, but no one is probably good from there...and those long 2s shouldn't be taken..he only shot 31 all season though.

Not only is Bridges a great glue guy and elite defender, but he is so damn efficient and great with steals and igniting and/or finishing the fast break (except, ironically as I type this, last night as I think of the missed dunk), and a great 3 pt shooter. This added mid range shot he can run past his guy, stop and drop it in, is nice, and if he learns to create in more way, that's a bonus. This is definitely a key starter any coach would want. I think he'd start anywhere. Someone might say what about Boston? I think in that case they'd just go 2-3-4 with Brown/Bridges/Tatum. Clippers the same..they already start a bunch of wings. Just about any contender.

For me he'd be almost untouchable, and I just don't see many types of trades given our salary breakdowns where something makes sense. We can't get a big name if Paul is here unless we trade Booker or like 3 or 4 of our key guys including Ayton...and you don't trade a guy like this for a rookie...not being 24 and a key part of a finals team.

He may have only scored 12 ppg in the finals, but his splits were crazy at 53/43/92...and over a 66% TS%...and always took a tough defensive assignment

[Cutter]

Any ideas on an upgrade at PF?

[bwgood77]

Slightly different when you're playing and rooming with the dude for the next month, are the same age, and no doubt know each other. I'm happy you brought up LeBron though as the Heatles first were conceived in the Olympics that Wade, Bosh and Bron played in. Also I heard rumors that Kyrie and KD grew close in THEIR Olympics.....food for thought is all I'm saying.

Edit: So you're saying you'd rather have Mikal than Jason Tatum?

I'm saying that I doubt we have a shot at getting Tatum, and if we did, Boston would want Booker or Bridges in return anyway. Don't trade him in hopes that we can get Jayson Tatum later. Keep him. If Tatum becomes available, then make the move. This isn't rocket science. You don't throw away an excellent young guy who has improved each year in the league at the hope of potentially down the line adding someone who might not even ever be available to us.

You and BW are missing the point. Which is that Sarver won't pay (imo) 110 million for 4 players. Now, could he-at a later date be talked into forking over that extra cash for 1 of the best players in the league? Maybe. I don't see him doing it for Mikal. Hope I'm wrong but it might be best to sell high rather then see some other team max him and we can't (wont) match.

You better repeat that a lot. It's only a couple weeks until extension time. Might not be able to throw it out there after that.

Not sure why you say I am missing the point though. You and I have gone back and forth on this several times and I just disagree that Sarver will pay it. You don't now need to ask me again if I really think he will pay it.

I don't even know what Mikal and Paul will make...or if Paul will even be here...but it might not be as high as you think. But I think he'd pay $115 for those 4 for 2 years. It may just be 1. Or none, even if Paul picks up his option and plays one more year with us, then leaves.

You keep repeating it as if it would be him paying that much for those 4 guys for like 5 straight years. It's likely at the very most 2 years if he declines option and extends and maybe only 1.

[bwgood77]

The biggest acquisition IMO will be the development of Cam Johnson and Mikal Bridges ..

If they can somehow start to create shots for themselves and not be so depended on others, we’ll be hard to stop .

However, the Only player I would trade Mikal for is Tatum .. and the Only player I would trade Ayton for is Embid ..

Sure, but those salaries don't exactly work...Tatum makes $28 next year, Bridges $5.5.

Though I think I read before if someone signs an extension you add this year's salary to total deal and divide by total number of years to get trade value for trade purposes. Still wouldn't be enough.

Anyway, it's not something the Celtics or 76ers would do. Those guys are their franchise player. Tatum just signed that deal and it starts this year and goes to 2026 or 2025 if he opts out.

[bwgood77]

I have no idea what happened to crisp ball movement and quick decisions.

Part of this is reffing. This isn't going to be a blame the refs post, but the fact is that the difference between the way games are called in the season and in the post season means games are going to be different and so the strategy behind them will change, too.

This is what happened to the Warriors when they made their runs (pre-KD). Teams are allowed to get more physical, and so the more physically dominant players that you have (provided they are actually skillful), you are going to benefit more from the physicality.

This is why Curry has up and down games in the playoffs. He's not actually "choking", he's just doing what he does every game except he's getting beat up and pushed, knocked around more. The same thing happened to the Warriors ball movement in 2015 and 2016- the game becomes more physical so you can push everyone around and hold them if you are strong, which makes moving off ball much more difficult as well. If that reminds you of anything, it's because it just happened to us.

This is why it is important to have guys who are able to negate that change in playstyle with their physical attributes. Guys like KD, LeBron, Kawhi, and Giannis are absolutely huge players that have absurd physical advantages in size and athleticism over guys while also being skilled, and so you cannot take away very much from them if you try to bump them and hold them.

If you look at our roster, we have nobody at that level. Luckily Devin Booker is pretty insane but when the ball movement breaks down, our offense is literally going to be just him at some points, which is what we saw in the finals and at some points during the Lakers series. Milwaukee is big and strong with guys like Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue - it was always going to be hard when they are literally stronger than us. AD and LeBron were working us in the same way.

We also were able to take things away from Milwaukee, but Giannis is an all time great and can deal with the break down of his team's offense with his physicality, and that took some pressure off Middleton who was then able to make the shots outside of the normal flow of Milwaukee's offense. This is why I believe it is worthwhile in looking to see if we can get another guy who can get their own shot, so teams can't just bum rush Booker every time the play breaks down. We might not have someone at Giannis/LeBron etc. level but maybe we can mitigate the impact of increased physicality by pairing Booker with another guy who can be a shot creating threat.

A lot of great points. I know it was harder to do those multiple great passing possessions we saw the way the Bucks just flew all over the place, but with Book, he really wasn't looking to pass. He was looking to score..even if there were 3-4 guys keying on him...2 in the lane and Jrue right on him. If his mindset was..."I am going to pretend to drive in here for my midrange and kick it out" then it could have likely worked. I think a lot of times he plans a shot in his head and gets there and if there are too many defenders around, he then kind of jumps and panic passes, rather than passing with intention sometimes.

Sometimes he plays completely differently though. I know teams are adjusting and defenses are different, but it's like he really is taking on the challenge to get these two points himself, no matter how hard it is....when we just need to find a good shot for someone. Everyone on the team if fairly efficient, at least those that are playing, so a good shot is a good shot. I know guys go hot and cold but you gotta trust it.

[bwgood77]

To me, one of the difficult problems with keeping CP3 is it stagnates the development of either Ayton or Bridges and possibly both on the offensive side of the ball. I expect Booker and CP3 will continue to be ball dominate in the starting lineup. For the long-term outlook of the team, one of Ayton and Bridges needs to become a secondary scorer with the ability to create their own shot and a secondary initiator of the offense.

Of course, the Suns need to keep CP3 no matter what. With the short rest period, recent hand and shoulder injuries, and the fact he is just getting older, I wonder if he could be convinced to take on a super-sixth man role? The Suns sadly lacked a microwave scorer off the bench. Obviously, he'd still get close to 25+ minutes per game. Start Payne and let one of Bridges or Ayton become the secondary scorer. For that matter start Cam Johnson too.

Let CP3, Crowder, Jalen, Jevon, and whatever free agents we can acquire be a killer bench squad. Save the old guys' bodies for the playoffs.

I think ultimately he helps their development, not stunts it, even if they score fewer points while he is here. I think he's a great guy to pick things up from and will always help you out and give his opinion and both those guys are very receptive.

[Keith_myath]

Bridges is nothing more than a role player on a good team. Could be a good player on a bad team.

If a franchise is wanting to pay max for him, then you let him walk. It'll be their mistake.

Bridges is the type of role player we need. He's a keeper if another franchise offers a role player priced offer. He's still got heaps of improvement left in him and hopefully can thickening up his core to add a physical presence to his defense game; something we greatly need.

[lilfishi22]

What are our options for shoring up the front court?

I know it's been discussed before and there's obviously some personnel issues (esp with CP3) but I wonder if it's worth revisiting Blake Griffin again. I'm not sure what he's worth in the open market since he's a free agent now but is he someone you bring in to beef up our front court while still being able to stretch the floor and add anther lob threat onto the court.

Flame on

[RunDogGun]

What are our options for shoring up the front court?

I know it's been discussed before and there's obviously some personnel issues (esp with CP3) but I wonder if it's worth revisiting Blake Griffin again. I'm not sure what he's worth in the open market since he's a free agent now but is he someone you bring in to beef up our front court while still being able to stretch the floor and add anther lob threat onto the court.

Flame on

It is an interesting thought. I like it along with Howard.

[bwgood77]

What are our options for shoring up the front court?

I know it's been discussed before and there's obviously some personnel issues (esp with CP3) but I wonder if it's worth revisiting Blake Griffin again. I'm not sure what he's worth in the open market since he's a free agent now but is he someone you bring in to beef up our front court while still being able to stretch the floor and add anther lob threat onto the court.

Flame on

It is an interesting thought. I like it along with Howard.

Multiple people continue bringing him up and then multiple people mention him and Paul hate each other.

Is this under the assumption Paul goes somewhere else or do you think they'd want to put their past behind them?

[DRK]

Any ideas on an upgrade at PF?

James Johnson? Good defender and tough guy.

I like Bjelica as well for a PF that can stretch the floor somewhat.

As for centers? Bismack Biyombo would be an interesting 3rd string

[lilfishi22]

What are our options for shoring up the front court?

I know it's been discussed before and there's obviously some personnel issues (esp with CP3) but I wonder if it's worth revisiting Blake Griffin again. I'm not sure what he's worth in the open market since he's a free agent now but is he someone you bring in to beef up our front court while still being able to stretch the floor and add anther lob threat onto the court.

Flame on

It is an interesting thought. I like it along with Howard.

Multiple people continue bringing him up and then multiple people mention him and Paul hate each other.

Is this under the assumption Paul goes somewhere else or do you think they'd want to put their past behind them?

To be honest, I never really delved too deep into how big the issue was. My understanding was that Blake and CP3 clashed because they both wanted to be the man but just looking at interviews a few years after they both left the Clippers, it seems like they have both moved on from those issues. Again, I don't know whether their relationship is irreconcilable but both guys are at different stages of their career (both were in their prime in LA) and CP3 has deferred to a much younger Book and Blake also played 4-5th fiddle behind the Nets stars after a few years wasting away in Detroit.

"It's seriously one of those things you don't realize what you have until it's gone. I think about it at times. And me and Blake absolutely had our issues here and there and whatnot, but I actually appreciated Blake probably a lot more after I left. And then, especially once he started shooting threes, I was like: 'God dang. Cash.'"

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“The ups and downs obviously were there but whenever you spend that much time and go through that many battles with somebody it’s special. So it’s great being teammates with DeAndre again and it’s always fun to compete.”

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