2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Trade season begins

[Fo-Real]

I like the word BILLIONAIRE!!!

[RedIndian]

4 billion!

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[sunsfan1o1]

I thought people liked Poeltl and many didn't like Ayton.

Anyway, Siakam is a no brainer but like I said, no one else averages 24/8/7 in the NBA except Luka and Jokic.

You don't trade guys like that. Not for Ayton. They will want to get better in trade, not worse.

Once Barnes gets better and they add a pick (which they are good at) and Koloko progresses, they will be good.

I am unsure why people expect teams in the mix and competitive to trade All NBA players to us. He's probably a top 5 player in the east. Off the top of my head the only guys I take ahead of him are Giannis, Tatum, KD and Embiid, but even for a team like Toronto, they wouldn't trade him for KD...given age.

Honestly when push comes to shove, I don't really think even Tatum is better, he's just younger with more upside and is tops in MVP race moreso because of Boston's record. If Toronto was 22-8 Siakam would likely be up there.

I guess you and Masai think alike. That’s why raptors keep losing they think Siakam is that guy. Lol. Top 5 player in the East is crazy. I don’t even know if he’s top 10. His stats are inflated.

100%

I can name almost 15 players better than him in the East right now.

He's stat padding due to everyone sucking and has brought the team to the lottery as a result. He's a classic #2, nowhere near good enough to carry a team. Not a Tatum/Biid/Trae/Giannis. Jimmy Butler is better too. Among many others.

Ayton and CamJo is a great deal for Toronto. I'll add a first if they add Koloko.

AYTON IS BETTER.
Ayton would average 25 and 15 in Toronto. Smh. Don’t be ungrateful of what you have. We have a top 5 center.

[spanishninja]

4 billion!

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goddamn!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Just missed posting this! Late to the party again! Fine work Redindian!!!

[Slim Charless]

I guess you and Masai think alike. That’s why raptors keep losing they think Siakam is that guy. Lol. Top 5 player in the East is crazy. I don’t even know if he’s top 10. His stats are inflated.

100%

I can name almost 15 players better than him in the East right now.

He's stat padding due to everyone sucking and has brought the team to the lottery as a result. He's a classic #2, nowhere near good enough to carry a team. Not a Tatum/Biid/Trae/Giannis. Jimmy Butler is better too. Among many others.

Ayton and CamJo is a great deal for Toronto. I'll add a first if they add Koloko.

AYTON IS BETTER.
Ayton would average 25 and 15 in Toronto. Smh. Don’t be ungrateful of what you have. We have a top 5 center.

Tell Monty that.

That's why I want this trade. Monty and our guards don't respect Ayton's game. They don't get him the ball and they don't care. They will, however respect Siakam's game. We can also get Koloko a 21 yr old 7 footer to start fresh on.

It's a good deal. For both sides.

[bwoolf2]

I'm assuming it's a group because ishbia alone doesn't have the money

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

I'm assuming it's a group because ishbia alone doesn't have the money

Apparently he's worth a little under 6 billion!

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[bwoolf2]

I'm assuming it's a group because ishbia alone doesn't have the money

Apparently he's worth a little under 6 billion!

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And paying 4 billion for suns better be a group

Guess he would bevin top 10 of the richest owners in league.

I like the basketball background, walk on at Michigan st 3 final fours and a national championship

[Qwigglez]

In case anyone wanted this interesting breakdown of how to stop Zion that the Bucks implemented last night.

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[sunsfan1o1]

In case anyone wanted this interesting breakdown of how to stop Zion that the Bucks implemented last night.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=ffivr6MOj7cFySgHO1fPbA

The answer is Giannis and Lopez and a semi competent head coach.
Suns won’t beat Milwaukee with this team. They will take away the mid range and the inside game and our sometimes shooters will fail under too much pressure as they usually do. Again another reason you can’t trade CamJo and Ayton for Siakam if they even make it to the finals with Siakam.

[bwgood77]

It looks like Wood is a tank commander, good for tanking teams, bad for winning. Hey, Mavs are 15-16 with him as a second best player.

With that being said I am curious why Raptors are this bad? They have this board`s favorite Pascal Siakam and a ton of good players like Van Vleet, Barnes, Anunoby, Trent Jr etc. and they are 13-18 so far.

FVV having a nightmare season, Barnes suffering a severe sophomore slump, Gary Trent struggling with his shot as well.

Biggest things are (1) lack of a traditional big man, resulting in the league's worst Defensive Rebounding % and (2) league's second-worst 3FG%. Of their top 8 guys, their best 3FG shooter has been Siakam at 36%. FVV shooting 32%, Trent shooting 33.5%. The fact that the whole team struggles shooting suggests a roster construction/offensive scheme issue. I can see why they're looking to blow it up.

Siakam's the guy they have to move, obviously. Most valuable player, 28 years old. I'm sure he's the guy JJ would most like to trade for. The question is whether they'd need DA to pull the trigger. Not sure we're contenders without DA, but who knows what JJ thinks. Maybe a three-team deal with Poeltl coming here or going to TOR works.

You nailed it imo. Good post.

The rest of the league figured out their "long bois" gimmick and just started forcing them to hit 3s...which they can't do. FVV sucking has left them with a massive gap in shooting.

Siakam is the most obvious target as he's the oldest and the most valuable. They need shooting and a true 5.

An Ayton+CamJo for Siakim+Koloko deal makes a ton of sense for both teams. Maybe we add in a pick this year to cover the gap but I think that's a pretty even deal. Either way the 2 teams seem like they can fix each other's problems nicely.

That's not a bad deal for them, but there is no indication they would trade him, and Siakam likes it there. Ayton and Cam may not. Cam is injury prone.

Is Ayton's contract better than Siakam's next one?

Anyway, any trade "rumors" with them are those speculative ones that say "other teams are monitoring their situation". I wonder how we'd address rebounding but if we put him at PF we should be ok with a decent C.

But IF they move him, right now would be the time, with 1.5 years left on contract.

There is, of course the risk that he would leave in 2024 when he is a FA. Most guys coming off their 2nd contracts want to test the FA market.

I think it might be more likely Toronto is a buyer, trading OG, Trent and a pick for someone like Capela, and running something like FVV, Barnes, Porter, Siakam, Capela. That's just kind of a first thought of the type of guy, or they pry a big from Orlando for less or a guy like Myles Turner for OG and Koloko or something.

OG had wanted out and there apparently has been friction with Trent.

[bwgood77]

Would the Suns add a conditional '23 1st in a Shamet/Saric for Christian Wood and Frank Ntilikina deal? If so, what conditions would be required?

I wouldn't. Wood is nice, wanted him in the offseason but we were focused on KD....I don't like Franky Smokes and while it would be great to offload Shamet and Saric, the conditions I would add to the 1st would be so restrictive, it may as well be a 2nd or two.

No clue why Dallas would do it....Wood is like their 2nd best player

It looks like Wood is a tank commander, good for tanking teams, bad for winning. Hey, Mavs are 15-16 with him as a second best player.

With that being said I am curious why Raptors are this bad? They have this board`s favorite Pascal Siakam and a ton of good players like Van Vleet, Barnes, Anunoby, Trent Jr etc. and they are 13-18 so far.

I know a huge Mavs fan...smart fan. He is not a big fan of Woods. He also finds it frustrating and laughable how horrible the Mavs have been at building around Luka..

He thinks it's ridiculous they paid McGee so much and promised to start him and he's not even in the rotation anymore.

[bwgood77]

I wouldn't. Wood is nice, wanted him in the offseason but we were focused on KD....I don't like Franky Smokes and while it would be great to offload Shamet and Saric, the conditions I would add to the 1st would be so restrictive, it may as well be a 2nd or two.

No clue why Dallas would do it....Wood is like their 2nd best player

It looks like Wood is a tank commander, good for tanking teams, bad for winning. Hey, Mavs are 15-16 with him as a second best player.

With that being said I am curious why Raptors are this bad? They have this board`s favorite Pascal Siakam and a ton of good players like Van Vleet, Barnes, Anunoby, Trent Jr etc. and they are 13-18 so far.

FVV having a nightmare season, Barnes suffering a severe sophomore slump, Gary Trent struggling with his shot as well.

Biggest things are (1) lack of a traditional big man, resulting in the league's worst Defensive Rebounding % and (2) league's second-worst 3FG%. Of their top 8 guys, their best 3FG shooter has been Siakam at 36%. FVV shooting 32%, Trent shooting 33.5%. The fact that the whole team struggles shooting suggests a roster construction/offensive scheme issue. I can see why they're looking to blow it up.

Siakam's the guy they have to move, obviously. Most valuable player, 28 years old. I'm sure he's the guy JJ would most like to trade for. The question is whether they'd need DA to pull the trigger. Not sure we're contenders without DA, but who knows what JJ thinks. Maybe a three-team deal with Poeltl coming here or going to TOR works.

Siakam's the guy they HAVE to move, even though all those others are the ones struggling for them? That is an odd way of putting it. I think Masai is smarter than that. And without DA, it doesn't make sense.

I could see them trading OG for Poeltl and a Hawks pick...seems like a trade both teams would like. The Spurs could even re-route OG somewhere else. Would you trade Cam for OG?

[bwgood77]

I wouldn't. Wood is nice, wanted him in the offseason but we were focused on KD....I don't like Franky Smokes and while it would be great to offload Shamet and Saric, the conditions I would add to the 1st would be so restrictive, it may as well be a 2nd or two.

No clue why Dallas would do it....Wood is like their 2nd best player

It looks like Wood is a tank commander, good for tanking teams, bad for winning. Hey, Mavs are 15-16 with him as a second best player.

With that being said I am curious why Raptors are this bad? They have this board`s favorite Pascal Siakam and a ton of good players like Van Vleet, Barnes, Anunoby, Trent Jr etc. and they are 13-18 so far.

It's a team of role players and Siakam just isn't a superstar that can carry the team offensively.

He is scoring 25ppg, basically the same as Jokic and Zion, with more reb/ast than Zion...in between the 2 in those categories.

He seems VASTLY underrated here. He is basically a Kawhi type player right now...not terribly far below peak Kawhi while being a better reb/ast guy...all in all not much worse..Kawhi scored slighly more for 3 years...just slightly...like .5-2 pts. Their def is pretty close.

[sunsfan1o1]

It looks like Wood is a tank commander, good for tanking teams, bad for winning. Hey, Mavs are 15-16 with him as a second best player.

With that being said I am curious why Raptors are this bad? They have this board`s favorite Pascal Siakam and a ton of good players like Van Vleet, Barnes, Anunoby, Trent Jr etc. and they are 13-18 so far.

It's a team of role players and Siakam just isn't a superstar that can carry the team offensively.

He is scoring 25ppg, basically the same as Jokic and Zion, with more reb/ast than Zion...in between the 2 in those categories.

He seems VASTLY underrated here. He is basically a Kawhi type player right now...not terribly far below peak Kawhi while being a better reb/ast guy...all in all not much worse..Kawhi scored slighly more for 3 years...just slightly...like .5-2 pts. Their def is pretty close.

He’s not top 5. All your top 5 guys are contending for a championship. Except for Siakam he’s contending for a top draft pick for a player better than him. Smh.
Top 5 guys make the playoffs

[Bogyo]

FVV having a nightmare season, Barnes suffering a severe sophomore slump, Gary Trent struggling with his shot as well.

Biggest things are (1) lack of a traditional big man, resulting in the league's worst Defensive Rebounding % and (2) league's second-worst 3FG%. Of their top 8 guys, their best 3FG shooter has been Siakam at 36%. FVV shooting 32%, Trent shooting 33.5%. The fact that the whole team struggles shooting suggests a roster construction/offensive scheme issue. I can see why they're looking to blow it up.

Siakam's the guy they have to move, obviously. Most valuable player, 28 years old. I'm sure he's the guy JJ would most like to trade for. The question is whether they'd need DA to pull the trigger. Not sure we're contenders without DA, but who knows what JJ thinks. Maybe a three-team deal with Poeltl coming here or going to TOR works.

You nailed it imo. Good post.

The rest of the league figured out their "long bois" gimmick and just started forcing them to hit 3s...which they can't do. FVV sucking has left them with a massive gap in shooting.

Siakam is the most obvious target as he's the oldest and the most valuable. They need shooting and a true 5.

An Ayton+CamJo for Siakim+Koloko deal makes a ton of sense for both teams. Maybe we add in a pick this year to cover the gap but I think that's a pretty even deal. Either way the 2 teams seem like they can fix each other's problems nicely.

That's not a bad deal for them, but there is no indication they would trade him, and Siakam likes it there. Ayton and Cam may not. Cam is injury prone.

Is Ayton's contract better than Siakam's next one?

Anyway, any trade "rumors" with them are those speculative ones that say "other teams are monitoring their situation". I wonder how we'd address rebounding but if we put him at PF we should be ok with a decent C.

But IF they move him, right now would be the time, with 1.5 years left on contract.

There is, of course the risk that he would leave in 2024 when he is a FA. Most guys coming off their 2nd contracts want to test the FA market.

I think it might be more likely Toronto is a buyer, trading OG, Trent and a pick for someone like Capela, and running something like FVV, Barnes, Porter, Siakam, Capela. That's just kind of a first thought of the type of guy, or they pry a big from Orlando for less or a guy like Myles Turner for OG and Koloko or something.

OG had wanted out and there apparently has been friction with Trent.

Raptors problem is that they have no real PG, no real SG and no real C. FVV is 6'1 but really he is a SG (in a small PG's body). GTJ is also a small (and not athletic) SG getting paid too much (18 mill/yr?). No real C is also a bit of an issue on D, but they negate some of that with the swarming 6'7 - 6'8 - 6'9 guys (basically everybody on their roster). They would be better even if they got back a bit less talent for some of their guys, they need players who fit their positions of need somehow.

[bwgood77]

I thought people liked Poeltl and many didn't like Ayton.

Anyway, Siakam is a no brainer but like I said, no one else averages 24/8/7 in the NBA except Luka and Jokic.

You don't trade guys like that. Not for Ayton. They will want to get better in trade, not worse.

Once Barnes gets better and they add a pick (which they are good at) and Koloko progresses, they will be good.

I am unsure why people expect teams in the mix and competitive to trade All NBA players to us. He's probably a top 5 player in the east. Off the top of my head the only guys I take ahead of him are Giannis, Tatum, KD and Embiid, but even for a team like Toronto, they wouldn't trade him for KD...given age.

Honestly when push comes to shove, I don't really think even Tatum is better, he's just younger with more upside and is tops in MVP race moreso because of Boston's record. If Toronto was 22-8 Siakam would likely be up there.

I guess you and Masai think alike. That’s why raptors keep losing they think Siakam is that guy. Lol. Top 5 player in the East is crazy. I don’t even know if he’s top 10.
I’d take Trae, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Donovan Mitchell, Mobley, Garland, Haliburton, Jimmy Butler, Adebayo, Giannis, Holiday, Middleton, Banchero, Embiid, KD, Kyrie, Lamelo, over him and maybe more. That’s just the East. His stats are inflated.

I thought of Trae, Mitchell, Garland, Butler and Bam. All around, Siakam is better. Mitchell is on FIRE this year...so you could argue this year he's close...but he doesn't quite have much more than the scoring better than Siakam...and can't defend neaerly as well.

If I were them and wanted to rebuild or reshuffle a bit to get younger, I'd trade Siakam for Mobley, but they wouldn't. No way would I trade him for Trae. Trae is the one hurting the Hawks right now. Brown...that is somewhat close. Haliburton..may be better later. Bam better at some things but Siakam better at more things. Siakam is way better at offense and Bam is slightly beetter on D. Butler is older and declining. Holiday and Middleton are not close.

I'd trade him for Banchero but Orlando wouldn't..same with Mobley. LaMelo too injury prone..Kyrie too old. How can his stats be inflated? That's dumb. They are what they are.

[thamadkant]

Milwaukee Bucks is a good bet for the championship this season. I see them bearing Celtics out East and then crushing whoever comes out West in 5 games. But it's December.... injuries can happen. But just how Bucks are built and their system... they are due for another ring.