Welcome Jusuf Nurkić

[NapoleonII]

It's not Ishbias pocket book it's the penalties for being over the 2nd apron 3 out of 5 years that matters cap/contact wise. There are real draft/roster penalties that they really need to avoid.

So having Nurk at basically half the cost giving around the same production is huge for the suns and how they can build the roster the next few years. Heck by some advanced stats Nurk has been slightly better that DA this season.

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Some guys won't even pay any attention to the advanced stats unfortunately.

I think advanced stats can be kind of misleading just like with traditional box. like, Nurk has a high DBPM but part of that is because we don't have him in there when we know that he would be cooked on defense. It really speaks to the benefit of having a guy like Eubanks backing him up.

And Frank Vogel in the driver's seat instead of Monty.

I have no doubt in my mind that we finish with a better defense than last year.

[enigmatics]

It's not Ishbias pocket book it's the penalties for being over the 2nd apron 3 out of 5 years that matters cap/contact wise. There are real draft/roster penalties that they really need to avoid.

So having Nurk at basically half the cost giving around the same production is huge for the suns and how they can build the roster the next few years. Heck by some advanced stats Nurk has been slightly better that DA this season.

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Some guys won't even pay any attention to the advanced stats unfortunately.

I think advanced stats can be kind of misleading just like with traditional box. like, Nurk has a high DBPM but part of that is because we don't have him in there when we know that he would be cooked on defense. It really speaks to the benefit of having a guy like Eubanks backing him up.

100%. Which is why in a separate post I said I considered the 5 spot as an aggregate. But my optimism is very high given how much Nurk helps to unlock on offense.

[Jdiddy701]

10 games in, I 120% want Nurkic over ayton

This guy is really a poor man's joker.

I did not like Ayton and am not that high on Nurk. The difference to me is the $$$ between the two, and factoring in that we also have Grayson Allen, who has been really good for us. I prefer DA than Nurk but would still make the trade if that makes sense. I do wish we would have kept Camara though. I think our ceiling as a team remains the same with/without this trade so it’s whatever to me.


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Respectfully, I find your last comment to be wild. The combination of Nurk/Allen raise the ceiling considerably.

Right now, i think the trade is wash and still think it was the right move to make. Not saying you’re wrong at all. Can’t wait to see how everyone plays when Booker returns and we are a few games in.


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[spanishninja]

I did not like Ayton and am not that high on Nurk. The difference to me is the $$$ between the two, and factoring in that we also have Grayson Allen, who has been really good for us. I prefer DA than Nurk but would still make the trade if that makes sense. I do wish we would have kept Camara though. I think our ceiling as a team remains the same with/without this trade so it’s whatever to me.


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Respectfully, I find your last comment to be wild. The combination of Nurk/Allen raise the ceiling considerably.

Right now, i think the trade is wash and still think it was the right move to make. Not saying you’re wrong at all. Can’t wait to see how everyone plays when Booker returns and we are a few games in.


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even if it's net neutral in terms of basketball production, the salary flexibility still makes it a win.

[bwgood77]

We all said when the trade went down that DA is definitely the better player. Nobody disagreed with that. Ayton’s lazy play is still better than Nurk’s best play.

Nurk will be better when Book and Beal return. Right now, we’re asking Nurk to do things offensively that he may be doing soon but a lot less and will come easier when the attention is drawn to Book, KD and Beal.

I still much rather have Ayton off the team. His contract was one of the worst in the league. I’m OK with Nurk. He’s not the best option but Nurk is a really good passer and sets solid screens. I think those things are really undervalued with him. It will get better soon with him.

DA didn’t wanna be in Phoenix. We had to move him. While it hurts to lose Camara, Grayson Allen will be a very important piece for us this year.


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I agree we had to move Ayton, but just was hoping for a better package. I am not sure why people care about his contract, as we are so far over the cap we never would have had cap space. Nurkic being cheaper doesn't matter...unless people care about Ishbia saving money.

Unless the rationale is getting Grayson Allen with the extra salary difference (and Little), and he helps some, but doesn't really make up for the difference.

Would have loved to at least get someone like Capela. A guy like Lopez would have been perfect....or Porzingis, and I wouldn't be surprised if Washington would have dealt us him for Ayton had we gotten into that earlier.

? It's not Ishbias pocket book it's the penalties for being over the 2nd apron 3 out of 5 years that matters cap/contact wise. There are real draft/roster penalties that they really need to avoid.

So having Nurk at basically half the cost giving around the same production is huge for the suns and how they can build the roster the next few years. Heck by some advanced stats Nurk has been slightly better that DA this season.

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I guess I wasn't thinking as much about that.

However, the salaries overall for the trades are pretty even. We will have to trade Allen for nothing or just let him expire and not keep him to decrease the salaries. Or trade Little for nothing, if anyone would want him at his price. Otherwise it's about the same.

Nurkic played well last night...hopfully he keeps it up and does so into his 30s.

[bwgood77]

I did not like Ayton and am not that high on Nurk. The difference to me is the $$$ between the two, and factoring in that we also have Grayson Allen, who has been really good for us. I prefer DA than Nurk but would still make the trade if that makes sense. I do wish we would have kept Camara though. I think our ceiling as a team remains the same with/without this trade so it’s whatever to me.


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Respectfully, I find your last comment to be wild. The combination of Nurk/Allen raise the ceiling considerably.

Right now, i think the trade is wash and still think it was the right move to make. Not saying you’re wrong at all. Can’t wait to see how everyone plays when Booker returns and we are a few games in.


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I pretty much agree with you. It's a wash overall and I think it needed to be done. I will say I think the ceiling was higher with Ayton but the floor may be higher with Nurkic, though I will need a little more sample size to really say that and see how his finishing, turnovers and defensive mobility is, as well as his effort, something he''s had problems with as well.

But I think Book was tired of Ayton and wanted him gone and that may have had a lot to do with it. Ayton is not in the same stratosphere as Shaq but it does kind of remind me of Kobe wanting Shaq gone, and was threatening to leave in FA if they didn't trade Shaq....because he found Shaq lazy, coming into the season out of shape, etc.

This was two years after their threepeat when they failed to make the finals and then got beat badly by the Pistons.

Of course, again, Shaq is in a different stratosphere to Ayton so for talent comparison it doesn't work, but situations it just made me think of it. I just hope the Suns don't struggle post trade like the Lakers did before they got Gasol.

I doubt we will though if we can stay healthy given the fact we have KD as well and were able to add Beal for a pretty much washed CP3 (still great at assists but couldn't be that reliable secondary scoring option any more or play defense well).

[WeekapaugGroove]

I agree we had to move Ayton, but just was hoping for a better package. I am not sure why people care about his contract, as we are so far over the cap we never would have had cap space. Nurkic being cheaper doesn't matter...unless people care about Ishbia saving money.

Unless the rationale is getting Grayson Allen with the extra salary difference (and Little), and he helps some, but doesn't really make up for the difference.

Would have loved to at least get someone like Capela. A guy like Lopez would have been perfect....or Porzingis, and I wouldn't be surprised if Washington would have dealt us him for Ayton had we gotten into that earlier.

? It's not Ishbias pocket book it's the penalties for being over the 2nd apron 3 out of 5 years that matters cap/contact wise. There are real draft/roster penalties that they really need to avoid.

So having Nurk at basically half the cost giving around the same production is huge for the suns and how they can build the roster the next few years. Heck by some advanced stats Nurk has been slightly better that DA this season.

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I guess I wasn't thinking as much about that.

However, the salaries overall for the trades are pretty even. We will have to trade Allen for nothing or just let him expire and not keep him to decrease the salaries. Or trade Little for nothing, if anyone would want him at his price. Otherwise it's about the same.

Nurkic played well last night...hopfully he keeps it up and does so into his 30s.

Predicting trade value next summer seems like a fools errand, that **** changes quickly. But simply having the Ayton salary slot broken into 3 separate pieces gives them way more avenues to get under the second apron at some point in the next two years. There was virtually no way to be under with DA, Booker, KD, Beal all here. That was my main reason for thinking Ayton would eventually be traded I just kind of expected them to do it at the deadline or next summer.

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[bwgood77]

? It's not Ishbias pocket book it's the penalties for being over the 2nd apron 3 out of 5 years that matters cap/contact wise. There are real draft/roster penalties that they really need to avoid.

So having Nurk at basically half the cost giving around the same production is huge for the suns and how they can build the roster the next few years. Heck by some advanced stats Nurk has been slightly better that DA this season.

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I guess I wasn't thinking as much about that.

However, the salaries overall for the trades are pretty even. We will have to trade Allen for nothing or just let him expire and not keep him to decrease the salaries. Or trade Little for nothing, if anyone would want him at his price. Otherwise it's about the same.

Nurkic played well last night...hopfully he keeps it up and does so into his 30s.

Predicting trade value next summer seems like a fools errand, that **** changes quickly. But simply having the Ayton salary slot broken into 3 separate pieces gives them way more avenues to get under the second apron at some point in the next two years. There was virtually no way to be under with DA, Booker, KD, Beal all here. That was my main reason for thinking Ayton would eventually be traded I just kind of expected them to do it at the deadline or next summer.

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My original response wasn't really considering the apron but more to be talking about how they'd rather have Nurkic for cheaper even if he isn't as good or whatever it was. I don't think they were considering the apron when mentioning that.

I am curious if Vogel was a fan of the trade. I get the feeling he did want to work with Ayton and have him as the type of C he wanted to work with on D, but the front office, Book, etc, felt it was time to move on.

[enigmatics]

OI pretty much agree with you. It's a wash overall and I think it needed to be done. I will say I think the ceiling was higher with Ayton but the floor may be higher with Nurkic, though I will need a little more sample size to really say that and see how his finishing, turnovers and defensive mobility is, as well as his effort, something he''s had problems with as well.

The "physical" ceiling was higher - but was never to be actualized IMO. Obviously to each his own in regards to that - I just never saw the BBall IQ to unlock it nor the actual desire tbh.

That's primarily why I said the ceiling is higher with the pairing of Nurk/Allen.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I guess I wasn't thinking as much about that.

However, the salaries overall for the trades are pretty even. We will have to trade Allen for nothing or just let him expire and not keep him to decrease the salaries. Or trade Little for nothing, if anyone would want him at his price. Otherwise it's about the same.

Nurkic played well last night...hopfully he keeps it up and does so into his 30s.

Predicting trade value next summer seems like a fools errand, that **** changes quickly. But simply having the Ayton salary slot broken into 3 separate pieces gives them way more avenues to get under the second apron at some point in the next two years. There was virtually no way to be under with DA, Booker, KD, Beal all here. That was my main reason for thinking Ayton would eventually be traded I just kind of expected them to do it at the deadline or next summer.

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My original response wasn't really considering the apron but more to be talking about how they'd rather have Nurkic for cheaper even if he isn't as good or whatever it was. I don't think they were considering the apron when mentioning that.

I am curious if Vogel was a fan of the trade. I get the feeling he did want to work with Ayton and have him as the type of C he wanted to work with on D, but the front office, Book, etc, felt it was time to move on.

I don't put much into Vogels comments this summer, coaches and GMs will say whenever they think they should at that moment.

I'm no Ayton fan but throwing out everything but purely on the court id take him over Nurk. But with Nurks passing I think it's pretty close.

Now if you factor Grayson plus Nurk then for this particular group I'll take those two. I don't really factor Camara in because I imagine Little would be doing about as much if he was playing for Portland right now. But hey maybe I'm under selling him.

But I never thought this trade was about basketball and it was much more about cap/contract and chemistry. I think there are people in that building who were simply done with DA and it was time to move on.

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[bwgood77]

OI pretty much agree with you. It's a wash overall and I think it needed to be done. I will say I think the ceiling was higher with Ayton but the floor may be higher with Nurkic, though I will need a little more sample size to really say that and see how his finishing, turnovers and defensive mobility is, as well as his effort, something he''s had problems with as well.

The "physical" ceiling was higher - but was never to be actualized IMO. Obviously to each his own in regards to that - I just never saw the BBall IQ to unlock it nor the actual desire tbh.

That's primarily why I said the ceiling is higher with the pairing of Nurk/Allen.

I think it was in 2021 when we got to the finals and in 2022 offensively he certainly already showed he could put the ball in the basket from anywhere inside the arc at levels Nurk could never achieve.

Of course there are things that Nurk does better...like passing and screening, even though Ayton's screens were effective and he was often among the top in screen assists, but Nurk did add the 3 pt shooting and has the passing.

Nurk is more seasoned and is on the downside of his peak, but does have the experience, whereas Ayton still has room to grow, so I understand with this team being old and injury prone, Nurk fits the shorter timeline better.

[bwgood77]

Predicting trade value next summer seems like a fools errand, that **** changes quickly. But simply having the Ayton salary slot broken into 3 separate pieces gives them way more avenues to get under the second apron at some point in the next two years. There was virtually no way to be under with DA, Booker, KD, Beal all here. That was my main reason for thinking Ayton would eventually be traded I just kind of expected them to do it at the deadline or next summer.

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My original response wasn't really considering the apron but more to be talking about how they'd rather have Nurkic for cheaper even if he isn't as good or whatever it was. I don't think they were considering the apron when mentioning that.

I am curious if Vogel was a fan of the trade. I get the feeling he did want to work with Ayton and have him as the type of C he wanted to work with on D, but the front office, Book, etc, felt it was time to move on.

I don't put much into Vogels comments this summer, coaches and GMs will say whenever they think they should at that moment.

I'm no Ayton fan but throwing out everything but purely on the court id take him over Nurk. But with Nurks passing I think it's pretty close.

Now if you factor Grayson plus Nurk then for this particular group I'll take those two. I don't really factor Camara in because I imagine Little would be doing about as much if he was playing for Portland right now. But hey maybe I'm under selling him.

But I never thought this trade was about basketball and it was much more about cap/contract and chemistry. I think there are people in that building who were simply done with DA and it was time to move on.

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I agree there were people done with him and they wanted to move on. I was thinking you were not a big Grayson fan, but maybe I'm not remembering an earlier comment right.

I am not basing my Vogel opinion particularly on the comments, but nonetheless I think he would have preferred Ayton's skill set and ability to work with him on defense to Nurkic. I could be wrong though. He likely found out that they wanted to move on from Ayton..Booker, the FO, etc, and of course couldn't really fight back to much.

That's just my opinion based on what I think Vogel likes to do defensively. Nurkic really only offers passing, and sometimes rebounding. It was nice to see him dunk last night and finish a layup though.

[Saberestar]

My original response wasn't really considering the apron but more to be talking about how they'd rather have Nurkic for cheaper even if he isn't as good or whatever it was. I don't think they were considering the apron when mentioning that.

I am curious if Vogel was a fan of the trade. I get the feeling he did want to work with Ayton and have him as the type of C he wanted to work with on D, but the front office, Book, etc, felt it was time to move on.

I don't put much into Vogels comments this summer, coaches and GMs will say whenever they think they should at that moment.

I'm no Ayton fan but throwing out everything but purely on the court id take him over Nurk. But with Nurks passing I think it's pretty close.

Now if you factor Grayson plus Nurk then for this particular group I'll take those two. I don't really factor Camara in because I imagine Little would be doing about as much if he was playing for Portland right now. But hey maybe I'm under selling him.

But I never thought this trade was about basketball and it was much more about cap/contract and chemistry. I think there are people in that building who were simply done with DA and it was time to move on.

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I agree there were people done with him and they wanted to move on. I was thinking you were not a big Grayson fan, but maybe I'm not remembering an earlier comment right.

I am not basing my Vogel opinion particularly on the comments, but nonetheless I think he would have preferred Ayton's skill set and ability to work with him on defense to Nurkic. I could be wrong though. He likely found out that they wanted to move on from Ayton..Booker, the FO, etc, and of course couldn't really fight back to much.

That's just my opinion based on what I think Vogel likes to do defensively. Nurkic really only offers passing, and sometimes rebounding. It was nice to see him dunk last night and finish a layup though.

I think that you are undervaluing Nurkic a bit here. He is a GREAT rebounder, even better than Ayton.

Since being traded to the Blazers Nurkic has always averaged around 10 boards per game and his TRP% is 19.4 during his career.

For comparison Ayton TRP% is 18.9

[bwgood77]

I don't put much into Vogels comments this summer, coaches and GMs will say whenever they think they should at that moment.

I'm no Ayton fan but throwing out everything but purely on the court id take him over Nurk. But with Nurks passing I think it's pretty close.

Now if you factor Grayson plus Nurk then for this particular group I'll take those two. I don't really factor Camara in because I imagine Little would be doing about as much if he was playing for Portland right now. But hey maybe I'm under selling him.

But I never thought this trade was about basketball and it was much more about cap/contract and chemistry. I think there are people in that building who were simply done with DA and it was time to move on.

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I agree there were people done with him and they wanted to move on. I was thinking you were not a big Grayson fan, but maybe I'm not remembering an earlier comment right.

I am not basing my Vogel opinion particularly on the comments, but nonetheless I think he would have preferred Ayton's skill set and ability to work with him on defense to Nurkic. I could be wrong though. He likely found out that they wanted to move on from Ayton..Booker, the FO, etc, and of course couldn't really fight back to much.

That's just my opinion based on what I think Vogel likes to do defensively. Nurkic really only offers passing, and sometimes rebounding. It was nice to see him dunk last night and finish a layup though.

I think that you are undervaluing Nurkic a bit here. He is a GREAT rebounder, even better than Ayton.

Since being traded to the Blazers Nurkic has always averaged around 10 boards per game and his TRP% is 19.4 during his career.

For comparison Ayton TRP% is 18.9

They have been similar. I know Nurkic has had a lot of great rebounding games, but often has poor ones, as does Ayton. But as I've argued before, everyone has poor games.

I guess my point is, I dont think either are GREAT rebounders. I do think they are solid ones overall. Good enough to be around top 10 Cs normally but not in the very top tier.

[WeekapaugGroove]

My original response wasn't really considering the apron but more to be talking about how they'd rather have Nurkic for cheaper even if he isn't as good or whatever it was. I don't think they were considering the apron when mentioning that.

I am curious if Vogel was a fan of the trade. I get the feeling he did want to work with Ayton and have him as the type of C he wanted to work with on D, but the front office, Book, etc, felt it was time to move on.

I don't put much into Vogels comments this summer, coaches and GMs will say whenever they think they should at that moment.

I'm no Ayton fan but throwing out everything but purely on the court id take him over Nurk. But with Nurks passing I think it's pretty close.

Now if you factor Grayson plus Nurk then for this particular group I'll take those two. I don't really factor Camara in because I imagine Little would be doing about as much if he was playing for Portland right now. But hey maybe I'm under selling him.

But I never thought this trade was about basketball and it was much more about cap/contract and chemistry. I think there are people in that building who were simply done with DA and it was time to move on.

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I agree there were people done with him and they wanted to move on. I was thinking you were not a big Grayson fan, but maybe I'm not remembering an earlier comment right.

I am not basing my Vogel opinion particularly on the comments, but nonetheless I think he would have preferred Ayton's skill set and ability to work with him on defense to Nurkic. I could be wrong though. He likely found out that they wanted to move on from Ayton..Booker, the FO, etc, and of course couldn't really fight back to much.

That's just my opinion based on what I think Vogel likes to do defensively. Nurkic really only offers passing, and sometimes rebounding. It was nice to see him dunk last night and finish a layup though.

I hate Duke and have never liked Grayson but I think he's a useful basketball player, especially with this group.

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[Saberestar]

I agree there were people done with him and they wanted to move on. I was thinking you were not a big Grayson fan, but maybe I'm not remembering an earlier comment right.

I am not basing my Vogel opinion particularly on the comments, but nonetheless I think he would have preferred Ayton's skill set and ability to work with him on defense to Nurkic. I could be wrong though. He likely found out that they wanted to move on from Ayton..Booker, the FO, etc, and of course couldn't really fight back to much.

That's just my opinion based on what I think Vogel likes to do defensively. Nurkic really only offers passing, and sometimes rebounding. It was nice to see him dunk last night and finish a layup though.

I think that you are undervaluing Nurkic a bit here. He is a GREAT rebounder, even better than Ayton.

Since being traded to the Blazers Nurkic has always averaged around 10 boards per game and his TRP% is 19.4 during his career.

For comparison Ayton TRP% is 18.9

They have been similar. I know Nurkic has had a lot of great rebounding games, but often has poor ones, as does Ayton. But as I've argued before, everyone has poor games.

I guess my point is, I dont think either are GREAT rebounders. I do think they are solid ones overall. Good enough to be around top 10 Cs normally but not in the very top tier.

I think Nurkic is slightly better than Ayton at rebounding because he clears more space around the rim to facilitate the task for him and his teammates. He has strong legs and is really good boxing out.

OTOH his lack of mobility makes him a bad rebounder out of his area but that is for everyone who has enormous size. Ayton is not very good at those neither.

[enigmatics]

OI pretty much agree with you. It's a wash overall and I think it needed to be done. I will say I think the ceiling was higher with Ayton but the floor may be higher with Nurkic, though I will need a little more sample size to really say that and see how his finishing, turnovers and defensive mobility is, as well as his effort, something he''s had problems with as well.

The "physical" ceiling was higher - but was never to be actualized IMO. Obviously to each his own in regards to that - I just never saw the BBall IQ to unlock it nor the actual desire tbh.

That's primarily why I said the ceiling is higher with the pairing of Nurk/Allen.

I think it was in 2021 when we got to the finals and in 2022 offensively he certainly already showed he could put the ball in the basket from anywhere inside the arc at levels Nurk could never achieve.

Of course there are things that Nurk does better...like passing and screening, even though Ayton's screens were effective and he was often among the top in screen assists, but Nurk did add the 3 pt shooting and has the passing.

Nurk is more seasoned and is on the downside of his peak, but does have the experience, whereas Ayton still has room to grow, so I understand with this team being old and injury prone, Nurk fits the shorter timeline better.

It's not just experience though.

It's also the clear understanding and execution of the fundamentals of basketball. Having a center out there on the court who's downright allergic to putting a body on guys when setting a screen very much hamstrings what you can do especially if you're trying to free up guys for drives/cutting. With guys like Nurk (and Eubanks for that matter) it's in their DNA. After watching both even more closely I'd argue they enjoy exerting their physicality on players, especially the smaller guys.

In the same breath, we're also talking about a guy who's willing to get physical to collect fouls on the other bigs and I don't think I even need to explain why that's beneficial. Remember in 5 full seasons, DA averaged 2.6 attempts a game (0.4 so far this year) and 2.4 in the playoffs. Apologies for being hypercritical - but that stat line in itself should be a point of personal embarrassment for DA and it directly implicates how he has chosen to pigeon-hole his career as a jump shooting finesse big.

Then you have Nurk's passing ability which speaks for itself, not to mention his BBall IQ. They're not even healthy yet and he had a B2B stint of 7 assists each game both of which could've easily been 10+. He's also not stuck with just passing out to a 3pt shooter - the guy can toss a dime from anywhere in the half court.

I'll be the first to admit that the post-leg fracture Nurkic can be a little goofy looking at times, but the tools are there to be extremely efficient for what the Suns are trying to do.

[enigmatics]

I think Nurkic is slightly better than Ayton at rebounding because he clears more space around the rim to facilitate the task for him and his teammates. He has strong legs and is really good boxing out.

OTOH his lack of mobility makes him a bad rebounder out of his area but that is for everyone who has enormous size. Ayton is not very good at those neither.

Yup, he's FUNDAMENTALLY a better rebounder because he's not someone over-reliant on using his athleticism to simply outjump guys, especially after the leg fracture which caused him to lose some of his lift. He fights down low and as you said boxes out.

There's also a huge difference between contested/uncontested. In today's NBA very few teams crash the offensive glass - most are so heavily focused on spacing/pace that they're getting back on D immediately which leads to a lot of gimme boards. It's why I find some of the triple doubles guys like Westbrook and Luka put up to be empty. 45.3% of Nurks rebounds are CONTESTED. 33.5% of DA's rebounds are contested.

Big Nurk is also 2nd in the league in rebounding chances i.e. the closest player to the ball at any point in time between when the ball has crossed below the rim to when it is fully rebounded. He's at 21.1 and DA is 16.7 (11th).

[bwgood77]

I think Nurkic is slightly better than Ayton at rebounding because he clears more space around the rim to facilitate the task for him and his teammates. He has strong legs and is really good boxing out.

OTOH his lack of mobility makes him a bad rebounder out of his area but that is for everyone who has enormous size. Ayton is not very good at those neither.

Yup, he's FUNDAMENTALLY a better rebounder because he's not someone over-reliant on using his athleticism to simply outjump guys, especially after the leg fracture which caused him to lose some of his lift. He fights down low and as you said boxes out.

There's also a huge difference between contested/uncontested. In today's NBA very few teams crash the offensive glass - most are so heavily focused on spacing/pace that they're getting back on D immediately which leads to a lot of gimme boards. It's why I find some of the triple doubles guys like Westbrook and Luka put up to be empty. 45.3% of Nurks rebounds are CONTESTED. 33.5% of DA's rebounds are contested.

Big Nurk is also 2nd in the league in rebounding chances i.e. the closest player to the ball at any point in time between when the ball has crossed below the rim to when it is fully rebounded. He's at 21.1 and DA is 16.7 (11th).

That's good Nurk is getting contested rebounds. So 45.3% of his 9.4 rpg are contested, so he gets 4.26 contested rpg. And Ayton's 33.5% of his 12.9 rpg are contested, so he gets 4.32 contested rpg. It's good to know Nurk is right there with him.

[enigmatics]

I think Nurkic is slightly better than Ayton at rebounding because he clears more space around the rim to facilitate the task for him and his teammates. He has strong legs and is really good boxing out.

OTOH his lack of mobility makes him a bad rebounder out of his area but that is for everyone who has enormous size. Ayton is not very good at those neither.

Yup, he's FUNDAMENTALLY a better rebounder because he's not someone over-reliant on using his athleticism to simply outjump guys, especially after the leg fracture which caused him to lose some of his lift. He fights down low and as you said boxes out.

There's also a huge difference between contested/uncontested. In today's NBA very few teams crash the offensive glass - most are so heavily focused on spacing/pace that they're getting back on D immediately which leads to a lot of gimme boards. It's why I find some of the triple doubles guys like Westbrook and Luka put up to be empty. 45.3% of Nurks rebounds are CONTESTED. 33.5% of DA's rebounds are contested.

Big Nurk is also 2nd in the league in rebounding chances i.e. the closest player to the ball at any point in time between when the ball has crossed below the rim to when it is fully rebounded. He's at 21.1 and DA is 16.7 (11th).

That's good Nurk is getting contested rebounds. So 45.3% of his 9.4 rpg are contested, so he gets 4.26 contested rpg. And Ayton's 33.5% of his 12.9 rpg are contested, so he gets 4.32 contested rpg. It's good to know Nurk is right there with him.

Nurk's is 5.0 and DA's 4.4 per NBA.com.

I see what you did there though Mr. Sneaky Man.