The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #5 Dog Days

[King4Day]

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Again, a huge reason why buying out Beal was/ is a huge mistake that we'll hinder us for a multiple seasons going forward. I understand the interest in getting below the tax for aggregating purposes, and to try and access our MLE.

However, had we only exercised a bit more patience, we'd have close to 70+ million for this loaded free agency! And possibly be right back in the playoff picture.

Now if we don't land any big names or key pieces either by the trade deadline or in 26 free agency, then this will become yet another very bad decision for our franchise.

A good chunk of those guys will either be re-signed, or they won't opt out (Towns and PG aren't making that money again. If they do, it's to re-sign to a team friendlier deal).

By that year, our youth will start being eligible for extensions and if 1-2 even pan out, we won't have all that cap space anyway.
To me, our playoff push doesn't begin until after '31, when we have control of our own picks again. Until then, enjoy the ride and hope some of the picks we do make become studs.

Sure! Some might not, or they may fall to free agency or possibly even choose to test their market value. But regardless of that, and I'm not even targeting max contract names for my interests.

I'm actually looking at the other tiers for cumulative additions of quality positional depth, or even more young talent that could be showcased along with some vet options so we could possibly flip them later to reacquire a modicum of draft assets.

Now even if two of our young draft prospects do pan out, it's important to remember that they'll still be on rookie scale contracts for 4 yrs and then be restricted free agents after their 4th year. Heck in 27-28, Dunn would only be making around 5 million, Ighodaro making around 2 million and our blue chip center Maluach around 6 million. And not reach restricted free agency until 2028.

So that cumulative 13 million could be easily absorbed into that 70 million once Beal expires in that summer. But a few names I'd be looking at in the next tiers ( cheaper costs) are:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2027/position/pg/type/ufa

Cam Johnson, Miles Bridges, Kyle Kuzma, Lou Dort, Lonzo Ball, Austin Reeves, Brandon Clarke, Davion Mitchell, Naji Marshall, Goga Bidatze, Jake La Ravia, Zhaire Williams, Marcus Smart, Kris Dunn, Miles McBride, GG JACKSON, TOUMANI CAMARA!!!

Many of those players obviously not costing us max money. So even if the math has us paying around 15 million for Mark Williams, and 13 million (cumulative cost for Dunn, Ighodaro and Maluach) that's still.only 28 million and would have still left us with upwards of 40 million for free agency.

The thing is, if you keep Beal, you are stuck in the tax with no way to get out (short of trading picks to get off Allen, O'Neal, and Richards for space). Making the repeater penalties build for no reason. So, at some point we need to get under it. I'm not sure Ishbia is OK paying, what would continue to be, record setting tax bills, for a team that is a lottery favorite now, and 'hopeful' to land a player who may or may not be the final piece we need to make a title push.

Had we kept Beal, we're not making many changes to the team until he's gone. They are trying to win with Booker and build something new. Stretching Beal allows this. If you told me that Joker would absolutely be coming here had we waited, that's another story. But how many times have we seen teams swing and miss for stars they waited for?
Dallas, after their title win, broke up the team a bit in hopes to land a star, but nobody came.
Miami is another example as they have been going after every big name each time one pops up and have had little success.

If you don't cut Beal in the manner they did, their next option was to trade Booker. I really believe that. And without picks, you don't benefit in doing so.

[King4Day]

I'm not sure he's going to get a big contract this year. Likely will take a 1 year deal somewhere is my guess.
Pistons at least got Duncan Robinson in his place

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[Puff]

This whole board, maybe not the whole board, has adopted the Phoenix Suns podcasts as the scripture for the future of the Phoenix Suns. They have nothing else to keep their sessions listened to. I personally have turned them off. Especially once Lyndsey left the scene. They are just horrific and boring to listen too. They either scream or just mumble their way through their podcasts. I turn them off after about a minute of the garbage.

Why not focus on what we have and what we could be? I think we have done a good job of attempting to fill the weaknesses that we had the last couple of years. We are bigger, younger and quite possibly better than we had KD and Beal on the roster.

The crap about dumping Beal and stretching him as a bad for the franchise is garbage and another negative talking point for the summer. That apparently is what keeps you going, well I look at a potentially very good future. I could care less about 27 free agents or the 2031 draft. I want watchable Phoenix Suns basketball this fall.

We traded KD for two guys that averaged over 30 minutes per night each while averaging 21 and 14 points. We also got the 10th pick in the draft. The negativity toward Maluach is hard to fathom. He has yet to play one game in the NBA, yet he is doomed to be a failure.

We kept the one legit PG, CG while adding a couple of capable guys to battle it out for a roster spot. We got bigger and better. If you do not think that a Center rotation of Williams, Maluach, Richards and OSo, is not an improvement find another team. We needed help on the Wing and we added Brooks, Fleming, Davis Brea and Huntley.

We have needed better defense and toughness. Well Dillon Brooks could be a tone setter. His contract is up after next season so I expect him to be playing his ass off for his next contract. I just love the idea of watching Green, Brooks and Book pairing up with whomever we play at the 4 and 5. I expect high tempo, defense focused basketball.

Am I dreaming, maybe. However, I prefer to dream rather than attempt to continue to condemn every move that has been made this summer.

I am excited to watch our NEW TEAM play the upcoming season.

Go Suns

[Djedefre]

Telling someone you disagree with to find another team is childish and borderline unacceptable in a discussion forum.

I get the feeling of being fed-up with 'negative' takes, but that's just pure realism right now (and in foreseeable future). People are frustrated, angry, and rightfully so - our new owner razed Suns to the ground in just a couple of seasons.

As i see it, it's a duty of every Suns fan to oppose such impulsive, incompetent idiots holding the franchise they root for hostage. Pretending everything is fine actually means being complicit in total demise of this franchise.

You can not fathom the negativity towards Khaman, i get that. But let me tell you a thing i can not fathom - how people are incapable of seeing that we are much much closer to relocation than winning a chip in the next 5 to 10 years.

[Saberestar]

Damion Lee has signed for the Ironi Ness Ziona B.C. (Israel).

[Puff]

Telling someone you disagree with to find another team is childish and borderline unacceptable in a discussion forum.

I get the feeling of being fed-up with 'negative' takes, but that's just pure realism right now (and in foreseeable future). People are frustrated, angry, and rightfully so - our new owner razed Suns to the ground in just a couple of seasons.

As i see it, it's a duty of every Suns fan to oppose such impulsive, incompetent idiots holding the franchise they root for hostage. Pretending everything is fine actually means being complicit in total demise of this franchise.

You can not fathom the negativity towards Khaman, i get that. But let me tell you a thing i can not fathom - how people are incapable of seeing that we are much much closer to relocation than winning a chip in the next 5 to 10 years.

I guess being positive about our future this season is not allowed. I did not enjoy watching KD and Beal sitting on the bench most of last season in their Hoodie's. I hated the trades we made for both of them along with the Ayton trade.

What in the world makes you think we are close to relocating this team?

We have not won a chip in the 57 years that this franchise has existed. I guess if we would have kept Beal and traded Book we would automatically have been guaranteed to land one of the great free agents in 20 27.

We have already tried that approach and it failed. I just want a team that plays hard and enjoys each other. We will see if the new edition of Phoenix Suns basketball can live up to my expectations.

That is my adult part of the discussion.

[sunsbum]

Telling someone you disagree with to find another team is childish and borderline unacceptable in a discussion forum.

I get the feeling of being fed-up with 'negative' takes, but that's just pure realism right now (and in foreseeable future). People are frustrated, angry, and rightfully so - our new owner razed Suns to the ground in just a couple of seasons.

As i see it, it's a duty of every Suns fan to oppose such impulsive, incompetent idiots holding the franchise they root for hostage. Pretending everything is fine actually means being complicit in total demise of this franchise.

You can not fathom the negativity towards Khaman, i get that. But let me tell you a thing i can not fathom - how people are incapable of seeing that we are much much closer to relocation than winning a chip in the next 5 to 10 years.

I guess being positive about our future this season is not allowed. I did not enjoy watching KD and Beal sitting on the bench most of last season in their Hoodie's. I hated the trades we made for both of them along with the Ayton trade.

What in the world makes you think we are close to relocating this team?

We have not won a chip in the 57 years that this franchise has existed. I guess if we would have kept Beal and traded Book we would automatically have been guaranteed to land one of the great free agents in 20 27.

We have already tried that approach and it failed. I just want a team that plays hard and enjoys each other. We will see if the new edition of Phoenix Suns basketball can live up to my expectations.

That is my adult part of the discussion.

last year was by far the most miserable season of any sports franchise or year I’ve followed ever. It’s not even close. I’m so glad to be away from that, no matter the cost.

[Sunsdeuce]

Telling someone you disagree with to find another team is childish and borderline unacceptable in a discussion forum.

I get the feeling of being fed-up with 'negative' takes, but that's just pure realism right now (and in foreseeable future). People are frustrated, angry, and rightfully so - our new owner razed Suns to the ground in just a couple of seasons.

As i see it, it's a duty of every Suns fan to oppose such impulsive, incompetent idiots holding the franchise they root for hostage. Pretending everything is fine actually means being complicit in total demise of this franchise.

You can not fathom the negativity towards Khaman, i get that. But let me tell you a thing i can not fathom - how people are incapable of seeing that we are much much closer to relocation than winning a chip in the next 5 to 10 years.

Nailed it! If you are a fan of anything, you should be the biggest critic! Blindly following someone or a team without criticism shows a deep lack of critical thinking ability. There is a large group of people who blindly follow a person and paint their faces while waving gigantic flags that very clearly have no ability to think, investigate or find ways to be better.

Accepting things the way they are is the easiest way to failure. Positive ignorance can be good but it can also create failure. Be your biggest critic so you can be better in life. Blind ignorance isn’t a way to achievement, it’s a way to failure! Your fandom should lead you to criticize failure and poor decisions!

Telling someone to go find another team because you disagree with an Opinion because you are blissfully ignorant just shows you probably shouldn’t be taken serious during conversations! It also shows the mindset of a child. Job loss is at an all time high right now and you should criticize the person in charge regardless of how much you support them because it shows that you care and you have an ability to critically think without emotion taking over your outcome! Same goes with being a fan of any team. If your team is going to be a 30-35 win team, that isn’t a cause for celebration, it should be time to ask why solutions aren’t made to achieve to be better.

If you want to be blissfully, blindly ignorant to the team, that’s fine! But show some ability to respect others views and opinions regardless of your ignorance to the reality of the state of the team. Resorting to name calling is the first and last time anyone should take any of your opinions with any type of value!

[Ghost of Kleine]

A good chunk of those guys will either be re-signed, or they won't opt out (Towns and PG aren't making that money again. If they do, it's to re-sign to a team friendlier deal).

By that year, our youth will start being eligible for extensions and if 1-2 even pan out, we won't have all that cap space anyway.
To me, our playoff push doesn't begin until after '31, when we have control of our own picks again. Until then, enjoy the ride and hope some of the picks we do make become studs.

Sure! Some might not, or they may fall to free agency or possibly even choose to test their market value. But regardless of that, and I'm not even targeting max contract names for my interests.

I'm actually looking at the other tiers for cumulative additions of quality positional depth, or even more young talent that could be showcased along with some vet options so we could possibly flip them later to reacquire a modicum of draft assets.

Now even if two of our young draft prospects do pan out, it's important to remember that they'll still be on rookie scale contracts for 4 yrs and then be restricted free agents after their 4th year. Heck in 27-28, Dunn would only be making around 5 million, Ighodaro making around 2 million and our blue chip center Maluach around 6 million. And not reach restricted free agency until 2028.

So that cumulative 13 million could be easily absorbed into that 70 million once Beal expires in that summer. But a few names I'd be looking at in the next tiers ( cheaper costs) are:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2027/position/pg/type/ufa

Cam Johnson, Miles Bridges, Kyle Kuzma, Lou Dort, Lonzo Ball, Austin Reeves, Brandon Clarke, Davion Mitchell, Naji Marshall, Goga Bidatze, Jake La Ravia, Zhaire Williams, Marcus Smart, Kris Dunn, Miles McBride, GG JACKSON, TOUMANI CAMARA!!!

Many of those players obviously not costing us max money. So even if the math has us paying around 15 million for Mark Williams, and 13 million (cumulative cost for Dunn, Ighodaro and Maluach) that's still.only 28 million and would have still left us with upwards of 40 million for free agency.

The thing is, if you keep Beal, you are stuck in the tax with no way to get out (short of trading picks to get off Allen, O'Neal, and Richards for space). Making the repeater penalties build for no reason. So, at some point we need to get under it. I'm not sure Ishbia is OK paying, what would continue to be, record setting tax bills, for a team that is a lottery favorite now, and 'hopeful' to land a player who may or may not be the final piece we need to make a title push.

Had we kept Beal, we're not making many changes to the team until he's gone. They are trying to win with Booker and build something new. Stretching Beal allows this. If you told me that Joker would absolutely be coming here had we waited, that's another story. But how many times have we seen teams swing and miss for stars they waited for?


Dallas, after their title win, broke up the team a bit in hopes to land a star, but nobody came.
Miami is another example as they have been going after every big name each time one pops up and have had little success.

If you don't cut Beal in the manner they did, their next option was to trade Booker. I really believe that. And without picks, you don't benefit in doing so.

Apologies for the late response man! My time is extremely hectic these days with little to no down time unfortunately. As to your response, you make great points, and I do understand the necessity to get out from under the tax!

I also understand that something was going to have to give with the escalating tax penalties and restrictions. Admittedly though, I don't care about the tax bills or repeater penalties suffered by Ishbia. I say this because this entire mess was of his making and he should own it with interest for our long term flexibility.

Sure buting out Beal saved him around 175 million this season and up to 200 million with all cumulative penalties included. It's his money, so of course he can do with it as ye sees fit.

Overall though, the issues that I have with the buyout stem from the 5 years of dead cap that ultimately will take us out of the running for any high tier options in free agency, as we're just not going to be able to outbid the majority of teams due to that 23 million (cumulative total) restricting us further.

Now this wouldn't be such an issue if we still had ANY semblance of viable draft assets to rebuild around while struggling. But we're obviously giving up premium value to other teams, basically letting them cash in on our misfortune. And this only pushes us even deeper down in our deep hole we're in.

Because of this situation, being tethered to that dead cap for the next half decade essentially removes our seat at the table to bid on the vast majority of free agents until Booker is well into his 30s.

We really have no other avenues or mechanisms for improvement without tradable assets which we have none!! Or cap flexibility to sign key players to help mitigate our struggles and lessen the outgoing pick value to those teams. That's unnecessary negligence in giving away value when we weren't contending anyways.

So at worst if we kept Beal, we'd have had an allstar level scoring guard that could've helped us offensively putting up 18-20 points a game on great efficiency whenever Booker sits ( in a super 6th man role). And our defense wouldve still improved entirely separate from his situation.

So with those factors, we could've been more competitive over next season or into 27 and then had $70+ million to put towards key roster improvements to again mitigate the 27 and 29 and 30, 31 1sts held by those teams. And that's what's going to be (aside from development) most important through this long rebuild!

Lastly, even had we held onto Beal instead, we still could've drafted the prospects that we did as well as the players from the KD trade. And possibly even still did the Mark Williams trade too??

We could've essentially ran a lineup of.............

Green/ Booker/ Brooks/ Hayes/ Williams.
Gillespie/ Beal/ Allen/ Dunn/ Richards.
Goodwin/ Brea/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Maluach.
** Have Maluach and Fleming split their time interchangeably in the G league?? Or Ighodaro and Fleming?? With Ighodaro working on his shooting and ballhandling.

But we still could've made 90% or more of the moves we made because the draft happened before the buyout, and the only salary we gave up in the Williams trade was Micis' 8 million expiring and our 29th pick and 2029 1st.

Overall, my biggest issue is tying ourselves to 23 million for the next 5+ yrs just to reduce our tax bill and get access to a $5 million TPMLE that we didn't even use. And now we'll be giving up premium lottery value for multiple seasons if we can't be legitimate players in free agency.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

I know that they're not nearly the same type of players, but still kind of Interesting.

[Puff]

Sure! Some might not, or they may fall to free agency or possibly even choose to test their market value. But regardless of that, and I'm not even targeting max contract names for my interests.

I'm actually looking at the other tiers for cumulative additions of quality positional depth, or even more young talent that could be showcased along with some vet options so we could possibly flip them later to reacquire a modicum of draft assets.

Now even if two of our young draft prospects do pan out, it's important to remember that they'll still be on rookie scale contracts for 4 yrs and then be restricted free agents after their 4th year. Heck in 27-28, Dunn would only be making around 5 million, Ighodaro making around 2 million and our blue chip center Maluach around 6 million. And not reach restricted free agency until 2028.

So that cumulative 13 million could be easily absorbed into that 70 million once Beal expires in that summer. But a few names I'd be looking at in the next tiers ( cheaper costs) are:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2027/position/pg/type/ufa

Cam Johnson, Miles Bridges, Kyle Kuzma, Lou Dort, Lonzo Ball, Austin Reeves, Brandon Clarke, Davion Mitchell, Naji Marshall, Goga Bidatze, Jake La Ravia, Zhaire Williams, Marcus Smart, Kris Dunn, Miles McBride, GG JACKSON, TOUMANI CAMARA!!!

Many of those players obviously not costing us max money. So even if the math has us paying around 15 million for Mark Williams, and 13 million (cumulative cost for Dunn, Ighodaro and Maluach) that's still.only 28 million and would have still left us with upwards of 40 million for free agency. :wink:

The thing is, if you keep Beal, you are stuck in the tax with no way to get out (short of trading picks to get off Allen, O'Neal, and Richards for space). Making the repeater penalties build for no reason. So, at some point we need to get under it. I'm not sure Ishbia is OK paying, what would continue to be, record setting tax bills, for a team that is a lottery favorite now, and 'hopeful' to land a player who may or may not be the final piece we need to make a title push.

Had we kept Beal, we're not making many changes to the team until he's gone. They are trying to win with Booker and build something new. Stretching Beal allows this. If you told me that Joker would absolutely be coming here had we waited, that's another story. But how many times have we seen teams swing and miss for stars they waited for?


Dallas, after their title win, broke up the team a bit in hopes to land a star, but nobody came.
Miami is another example as they have been going after every big name each time one pops up and have had little success.

If you don't cut Beal in the manner they did, their next option was to trade Booker. I really believe that. And without picks, you don't benefit in doing so.

Apologies for the late response man! My time is extremely hectic these days with little to no down time unfortunately. As to your response, you make great points, and I do understand the necessity to get out from under the tax!

I also understand that something was going to have to give with the escalating tax penalties and restrictions. Admittedly though, I don't care about the tax bills or repeater penalties suffered by Ishbia. I say this because this entire mess was of his making and he should own it with interest for our long term flexibility.

Sure buting out Beal saved him around 175 million this season and up to 200 million with all cumulative penalties included. It's his money, so of course he can do with it as ye sees fit.

Overall though, the issues that I have with the buyout stem from the 5 years of dead cap that ultimately will take us out of the running for any high tier options in free agency, as we're just not going to be able to outbid the majority of teams due to that 23 million (cumulative total) restricting us further.

Now this wouldn't be such an issue if we still had ANY semblance of viable draft assets to rebuild around while struggling. But we're obviously giving up premium value to other teams, basically letting them cash in on our misfortune. And this only pushes us even deeper down in our deep hole we're in.

Because of this situation, being tethered to that dead cap for the next half decade essentially removes our seat at the table to bid on the vast majority of free agents until Booker is well into his 30s.

We really have no other avenues or mechanisms for improvement without tradable assets which we have none!! Or cap flexibility to sign key players to help mitigate our struggles and lessen the outgoing pick value to those teams. That's unnecessary negligence in giving away value when we weren't contending anyways.

So at worst if we kept Beal, we'd have had an allstar level scoring guard that could've helped us offensively putting up 18-20 points a game on great efficiency whenever Booker sits ( in a super 6th man role). And our defense wouldve still improved entirely separate from his situation.

So with those factors, we could've been more competitive over next season or into 27 and then had $70+ million to put towards key roster improvements to again mitigate the 27 and 29 and 30, 31 1sts held by those teams. And that's what's going to be (aside from development) most important through this long rebuild!

Lastly, even had we held onto Beal instead, we still could've drafted the prospects that we did as well as the players from the KD trade. And possibly even still did the Mark Williams trade too??

We could've essentially ran a lineup of.............

Green/ Booker/ Brooks/ Hayes/ Williams.
Gillespie/ Beal/ Allen/ Dunn/ Richards.
Goodwin/ Brea/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Maluach.
** Have Maluach and Fleming split their time interchangeably in the G league?? Or Ighodaro and Fleming?? With Ighodaro working on his shooting and ballhandling.

But we still could've made 90% or more of the moves we made because the draft happened before the buyout, and the only salary we gave up in the Williams trade was Micis' 8 million expiring and our 29th pick and 2029 1st.

Overall, my biggest issue is tying ourselves to 23 million for the next 5+ yrs just to reduce our tax bill and get access to a $5 million TPMLE that we didn't even use. And now we'll be giving up premium lottery value for multiple seasons if we can't be legitimate players in free agency.

Most were saying that by keeping beal it was going to cost the owner somewhere in the $200Million dollar range. This while getting even worse in 2026 season. This while taking minutes from guys that play more than half the games.

If you were the owner, would you fork over $400 Million or more dollars over 2 years to keep Bradley Freaking Beal. This, so that you could have a great expiring contract in a couple of years.

Every team is getting out of the repeater tax, even the Celtics and Lakers. These are franchises that win championships.

Hell, we have been trying to trade Beal forever and no one wants any part of him. That is unless they can get him on the cheap like the Clippers did.

[Ghost of Kleine]

The thing is, if you keep Beal, you are stuck in the tax with no way to get out (short of trading picks to get off Allen, O'Neal, and Richards for space). Making the repeater penalties build for no reason. So, at some point we need to get under it. I'm not sure Ishbia is OK paying, what would continue to be, record setting tax bills, for a team that is a lottery favorite now, and 'hopeful' to land a player who may or may not be the final piece we need to make a title push.

Had we kept Beal, we're not making many changes to the team until he's gone. They are trying to win with Booker and build something new. Stretching Beal allows this. If you told me that Joker would absolutely be coming here had we waited, that's another story. But how many times have we seen teams swing and miss for stars they waited for?


Dallas, after their title win, broke up the team a bit in hopes to land a star, but nobody came.
Miami is another example as they have been going after every big name each time one pops up and have had little success.

If you don't cut Beal in the manner they did, their next option was to trade Booker. I really believe that. And without picks, you don't benefit in doing so.

Apologies for the late response man! My time is extremely hectic these days with little to no down time unfortunately. As to your response, you make great points, and I do understand the necessity to get out from under the tax!

I also understand that something was going to have to give with the escalating tax penalties and restrictions. Admittedly though, I don't care about the tax bills or repeater penalties suffered by Ishbia. I say this because this entire mess was of his making and he should own it with interest for our long term flexibility.

Sure buting out Beal saved him around 175 million this season and up to 200 million with all cumulative penalties included. It's his money, so of course he can do with it as ye sees fit.

Overall though, the issues that I have with the buyout stem from the 5 years of dead cap that ultimately will take us out of the running for any high tier options in free agency, as we're just not going to be able to outbid the majority of teams due to that 23 million (cumulative total) restricting us further.

Now this wouldn't be such an issue if we still had ANY semblance of viable draft assets to rebuild around while struggling. But we're obviously giving up premium value to other teams, basically letting them cash in on our misfortune. And this only pushes us even deeper down in our deep hole we're in.

Because of this situation, being tethered to that dead cap for the next half decade essentially removes our seat at the table to bid on the vast majority of free agents until Booker is well into his 30s.

We really have no other avenues or mechanisms for improvement without tradable assets which we have none!! Or cap flexibility to sign key players to help mitigate our struggles and lessen the outgoing pick value to those teams. That's unnecessary negligence in giving away value when we weren't contending anyways.

So at worst if we kept Beal, we'd have had an allstar level scoring guard that could've helped us offensively putting up 18-20 points a game on great efficiency whenever Booker sits ( in a super 6th man role). And our defense wouldve still improved entirely separate from his situation.

So with those factors, we could've been more competitive over next season or into 27 and then had $70+ million to put towards key roster improvements to again mitigate the 27 and 29 and 30, 31 1sts held by those teams. And that's what's going to be (aside from development) most important through this long rebuild!

Lastly, even had we held onto Beal instead, we still could've drafted the prospects that we did as well as the players from the KD trade. And possibly even still did the Mark Williams trade too??

We could've essentially ran a lineup of.............

Green/ Booker/ Brooks/ Hayes/ Williams.
Gillespie/ Beal/ Allen/ Dunn/ Richards.
Goodwin/ Brea/ O'neale/ Ighodaro/ Maluach.
** Have Maluach and Fleming split their time interchangeably in the G league?? Or Ighodaro and Fleming?? With Ighodaro working on his shooting and ballhandling.

But we still could've made 90% or more of the moves we made because the draft happened before the buyout, and the only salary we gave up in the Williams trade was Micis' 8 million expiring and our 29th pick and 2029 1st.

Overall, my biggest issue is tying ourselves to 23 million for the next 5+ yrs just to reduce our tax bill and get access to a $5 million TPMLE that we didn't even use. And now we'll be giving up premium lottery value for multiple seasons if we can't be legitimate players in free agency.

Most were saying that by keeping beal it was going to cost the owner somewhere in the $200Million dollar range. This while getting even worse in 2026 season. This while taking minutes from guys that play more than half the games.

If you were the owner, would you fork over $400 Million or more dollars over 2 years to keep Bradley Freaking Beal. This, so that you could have a great expiring contract in a couple of years.

Every team is getting out of the repeater tax, even the Celtics and Lakers. These are franchises that win championships.

Hell, we have been trying to trade Beal forever and no one wants any part of him. That is unless they can get him on the cheap like the Clippers did.

Of course it was going to cost upwards of 200 million, but this was known going into this whole fiasco and it didn't pan out. Many people also predicted it's downfall, but at the start, Ishbias' hubris caused him to arrogantly mortgage everything impulsively to make this happen regardless of the red flags.

Real change doesn't happen without accountability, and that accountability is unfortunately paying for the mess he chose to create. Buying out Beal does nothing more beyond restricting our only remaining avenue for roster improvements by anchoring us to that 23 million ( cumulative amount) for the next 5 seasons until Booker either asks out anyways or is close to 32 yrs old.

Being saddled with that dead cap prevents us a legitimate seat at the table in free agency to bid for any legitimate big names or impact free agents that could help us drastically improve competitively as opposed to having to wait on prospect development while giving out lottery picks like candy to the opposition for the next half decade!

I understand wanting to get out of the tax due to being bad and not returning the same profits as a result.

But I wouldn't choose to further compound the deep hole we're already in by anchoring our flexibility to significant dead immovable cap when that's really our only mechanism for rapid improvements to our roster and competitive trajectory improving so we could actually mitigate the value we're giving up until 2032 to other teams.

Buying out Beal this early is tantamount to having a house that needs renovations, but then selling all your belongings to get a loan for gasoline to burn it down! You have nothing left to work with now aside from a very long wait while you're paying back the loan you took out to self implode.

And what minutes exactly would he be taking from key players though?? If you're staggering him as a super 6th man whenever Booker sits to rest, then he takes Booker's place. Also, whenever he's injured, all of those minutes/ playing time can go to other players.

Again, we need to be competitive as possible to mitigate the 26' 1st to Memphis and then he'd fall off of our books completely in 2027 giving us upwards of 70 million to sign and resign impact depth pieces, which would in turn then help us mitigate the 27' 1st to Houston. And we'd be advancing more competitively again too!

The Celtics and the Lakers are league poster/ flagship teams and will always be low key propped up by Adam Silver and the league office competitively. We're in a completely separate category apart from them afforded no cushions or advantages. That's why it's so important to not continually compound our restrictions.

Lastly, nobody wanted Beal because of his contract salary and remaining years with the NTC attached. Had we held onto him, the years and money totals exponentially reduce, and also the likelihood of him deciding to waive his NTC increases too.


It was the best choice for long term viability that we didn't choose. At worst, aside from Booker himself, who is left on this team after the KD trade that could put up 18-20 points a game on 50% FG and 40% 3PT shooting?? Beal could have given us one of the best benches in the league offensively to counterbalance our improved defensive roster.

All in all, 70 million and being free and clear of Beal's contract in two yrs would have been a much better choice than the quick fix and having him affect our cap flexibility for the next half decade.

[Saberestar]

KD's twitter game has no offseason

It's fake.

[MrMiyagi]

KD's twitter game has no offseason

It's fake.

Nothing is fake on the internet

[lilfishi22]

Damion Lee has signed for the Ironi Ness Ziona B.C. (Israel).

It probably wouldn’t have moved the needle much, but I can’t help thinking about the opportunity cost of keeping him around, especially during his rehab year. If we had just moved on from DLee then, maybe we would not have been forced to stretch Little at that time. I remember that one of the reasons we stretched Little was partly because there was no taker for him, and keeping him on the roster meant we could not open a roster spot to re‑sign Bol, which turned out to be a pretty moot point anyway. If we had waived Lee earlier, we might not have been in such an urgent situation to waive and stretch Little.

[lilfishi22]

Telling someone you disagree with to find another team is childish and borderline unacceptable in a discussion forum.

I get the feeling of being fed-up with 'negative' takes, but that's just pure realism right now (and in foreseeable future). People are frustrated, angry, and rightfully so - our new owner razed Suns to the ground in just a couple of seasons.

As i see it, it's a duty of every Suns fan to oppose such impulsive, incompetent idiots holding the franchise they root for hostage. Pretending everything is fine actually means being complicit in total demise of this franchise.

You can not fathom the negativity towards Khaman, i get that. But let me tell you a thing i can not fathom - how people are incapable of seeing that we are much much closer to relocation than winning a chip in the next 5 to 10 years.

I guess being positive about our future this season is not allowed. I did not enjoy watching KD and Beal sitting on the bench most of last season in their Hoodie's. I hated the trades we made for both of them along with the Ayton trade.

What in the world makes you think we are close to relocating this team?

We have not won a chip in the 57 years that this franchise has existed. I guess if we would have kept Beal and traded Book we would automatically have been guaranteed to land one of the great free agents in 20 27.

We have already tried that approach and it failed. I just want a team that plays hard and enjoys each other. We will see if the new edition of Phoenix Suns basketball can live up to my expectations.

That is my adult part of the discussion.

You can be both

You don't need to crap on someone else for not feeling high on this team nor the other way around.

[Sunsdeuce]

Read on Twitter

I know that they're not nearly the same type of players, but still kind of Interesting.

I kinda wish they would compare the numbers more in depth, instead of in a bubble of fours combined. I’d like to see each year numbers to compare the level of improvement year by year. Hard to take anything away by comparing combined numbers .

Booker took a huge jump from year 1 to year 2. Booker went from 13 PPG to 22 PPG. I’d argue Booker has gone stagnant since year 3 if you look at the numbers.

Green made a moderate jump from 17 to 22 PPG. And regressed in year 3. But has been stagnant pretty much the rest of the way.

Personally I’d have been waiting for Booker to move beyond the 26ish, 4ish rbs, 6ish assists a game for the last 6-7 years. Hard to admit it, but Bookers numbers are very stagnant. I hope Green pushes Booker just as much as Booker should push Green to be better. KDs “oh well, I got mine” attitude rubbed too much off on Booker. Even the biggest Booker fan has to admit last years Booker had zero passion and zero fire for the game on the court.

Both players have a history of being stagnant. They need to have man crushes on each other to push each other to go to the next level.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

I know that they're not nearly the same type of players, but still kind of Interesting.

I kinda wish they would compare the numbers more in depth, instead of in a bubble of fours combined. I’d like to see each year numbers to compare the level of improvement year by year. Hard to take anything away by comparing combined numbers .

I don't find the comp useful at all, unsurprising coming from Voita.

I've already done a comp of Book and Green in their first four seasons in response to Sabre so I won't retread too much but TLDR, Booker was a more special talent compared to Green and it was evident earlier despite coming into the league as vastly different prospects (in terms of prospect evaluation). Basically when comparing their first 4 seasons, Book and Green tracked remarkably similarly in their first two seasons as young, inexperienced and inefficient guards. In their first 2 seasons both guys had a 53-54% TS%, very similar PER, very similar free throw rate, Green was a better rebounder but Book was a better passer and they had almost identical usage rates.

In their 3rd season is when things started to deviate quite dramatically. Book became a much more efficient scorer, despite a notable increase in usage, he had almost double the assist rate as Green, he also became better at getting to the line as well and he was doing all this while the team was still very young and not very good while Green's team started to became a playoff team winning 41 and 52 games. Green's efficiency didn't improve, playmaking didn't improve, FTr went backwards...he did become a better rebounder though.

You would expect a guy on a better built and more talented team would see his efficiency and assist rate improving just by having better talent around him and being coached by a much better coach than S-show coaching carousel that was Hornacek, Earl Watson, Triano and Kokoskov. The fact that he didn't tells me more about his individual player development having stalled after his 2nd season despite an improving team situation whereas Book improved in spite of the crap around him. The comp by Voita doesn't tell this story whatsoever.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

I know that they're not nearly the same type of players, but still kind of Interesting.

I kinda wish they would compare the numbers more in depth, instead of in a bubble of fours combined. I’d like to see each year numbers to compare the level of improvement year by year. Hard to take anything away by comparing combined numbers .

Booker took a huge jump from year 1 to year 2. Booker went from 13 PPG to 22 PPG. I’d argue Booker has gone stagnant since year 3 if you look at the numbers.

Green made a moderate jump from 17 to 22 PPG. And regressed in year 3. But has been stagnant pretty much the rest of the way.

Personally I’d have been waiting for Booker to move beyond the 26ish, 4ish rbs, 6ish assists a game for the last 6-7 years. Hard to admit it, but Bookers numbers are very stagnant. I hope Green pushes Booker just as much as Booker should push Green to be better. KDs “oh well, I got mine” attitude rubbed too much off on Booker. Even the biggest Booker fan has to admit last years Booker had zero passion and zero fire for the game on the court.

Both players have a history of being stagnant. They need to have man crushes on each other to push each other to go to the next level.

Great points! Fully agree with you on everything.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

I know that they're not nearly the same type of players, but still kind of Interesting.

I kinda wish they would compare the numbers more in depth, instead of in a bubble of fours combined. I’d like to see each year numbers to compare the level of improvement year by year. Hard to take anything away by comparing combined numbers .

I don't find the comp useful at all, unsurprising coming from Voita.

I've already done a comp of Book and Green in their first four seasons in response to Sabre so I won't retread too much but TLDR, Booker was a more special talent compared to Green and it was evident earlier despite coming into the league as vastly different prospects (in terms of prospect evaluation). Basically when comparing their first 4 seasons, Book and Green tracked remarkably similarly in their first two seasons as young, inexperienced and inefficient guards. In their first 2 seasons both guys had a 53-54% TS%, very similar PER, very similar free throw rate, Green was a better rebounder but Book was a better passer and they had almost identical usage rates.

In their 3rd season is when things started to deviate quite dramatically. Book became a much more efficient scorer, despite a notable increase in usage, he had almost double the assist rate as Green, he also became better at getting to the line as well and he was doing all this while the team was still very young and not very good while Green's team started to became a playoff team winning 41 and 52 games. Green's efficiency didn't improve, playmaking didn't improve, FTr went backwards...he did become a better rebounder though.

You would expect a guy on a better built and more talented team would see his efficiency and assist rate improving just by having better talent around him and being coached by a much better coach than S-show coaching carousel that was Hornacek, Earl Watson, Triano and Kokoskov. The fact that he didn't tells me more about his individual player development having stalled after his 2nd season despite an improving team situation whereas Book improved in spite of the crap around him. The comp by Voita doesn't tell this story whatsoever.

Very true!
The expounding on situational context is key here. Entirely different players and situations aside from both being unique scoring talents.

Hopefully Booker's efficiency and discipline/ leadership can run off on Green. And in kind, hopefully Green's frenetic aggressive tenacity can run off on Booker some too.

Both players idolized Kobe Bryant and his relentless work ethic to become great upon entering the league. It's my underlying hope that they can low key fire each other up to reach new levels and open up new aspects to their game pushing each other in various ways.