2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[garrick]

"Jones was a driving force in the decision to fire Monty Williams, sources tell Windhorst".

Most thought it's Ishbia/Isaiah behind this decision, but apparently it was Jones who was pushing for a championship level coach.

Damn I wonder if this was JJ trying to blame Monty for the team's failures to save his own job?

Even though Monty had his faults a lot of it falls on JJ and his failure to secure a proper bench and find a decent backup for CP3.

So are we gonna ignore the fact, Monty straight up said he didn’t run an offense. Or that Monty would let the other team go on 15-0 runs before he would call a time out? Or the fact be played misguided bias mind games and favored players like Shamet. Or that Monty couldn’t develop younger players. Or that he lost the lockerroom. Or that two years in a row we get blown out in deciding games.

Monty was is one of the worst Xs and Os coaches in the league. And that’s a fact!

And yes Jones has been subpar the last 3 years in trades and improving the roster. Personally I think Jones is not a good GM. But Monty had a LOT of coaching issues that couldn’t be ignored!

I'm not saying Monty was without fault but JJ made some huge blunders as well.

Skipping on Halburton and drafting Stix, failing to find a backup PG, trading and extending Shamet, trading away Dario for a super distant 2nd draft pick etc etc.

There are a number of small moves he could have made that wouldn't have broke the bank so to speak so I don't think it was a lack of financial flexibility due to Sarver's penny pinching or Monty's poor coaching decisions.

[Slim Charless]

I’m starting to think Monty cares more about arranging his daughters with NBA players than winning championships. Dude is a very weird guy! Glad he’s the Pistons problem and not ours!

Read on Twitter

Shame right now:



Then:




Guess he's staying DC now. No trade for him.

[sunsbum]

Ayton did improve considerably though in year 2 and year 3 and on offense in year 4. Turner's rebounding #s obviously were down playing with Sabonis but even without him, he only averaged 7.5 even though that was an uptick. I really like Turner though and think it would be a great return...I can just see people eventually complaining about him as well, with what I've said, being injured often, etc. I understand he doesn't make as much, but that's kind of moot given our team's salaries. We are well over the cap even just removing him entirely.

I think there is still a very good chance he gets traded though. The restriction for Indy is tomorrow so we will see if anything happens, and it wouldn't necessarily happen right away. Indy seemingly wanted to pair Turner and Ayton though, so I don't know if they'd want to make the swap given they didn't last summer. Unless we declined an Ayton for Turner trade last summer, but that doesn't make sense because Indy wouldn't have cleared the cap space to give him an offer sheet. If they offered a max S&T and we rejected Turner, they would have certainly known we would match and wouldn't have likely tied up cap space to give the offer. If they rejected a swap last summer, then given Turner played better and Ayton worse last year, it doesn't make sense they'd do it now.

Even though I want to get rid of Ayton there's not a trade that's been proposed or whispered since Sabonis that I personally would've pulled the trigger on. I definitely would have included him for KD instead of Mikal but that's about it. The Turner trade doesn't feel like we are getting = value back. I'm willing to give DA a shot with this squad but in reality is he going to be happy with his role? I guess we're going to find out, and at this point I'm ok with it. I just hope the effort is there.

[sunsbum]

Fewer dunks too which might bother a lot of people.

. I know you say this as a little rib shot to the Ayton haters that think he should dunk more but it’s kind lame because in fact he should be finishing stronger. That’ll never happen though, we both know that.

He's saying that because you ppl constantly whine about Ayton. The 1st few years you only had dunks to cry about so you did. There was legit stuff to complain about but alot of you guys don't know basketball and don't understand what you're watching so "dUnKzZZzZ iZ KeWl" became your mantra.

I understand what I'm watching, you act like suns fans are the only people that see it. You aren't the 2nd coming of miss cleo dude.

[grumpysaddle]

YoU dOn'T uNdErStAnD bAsKeTbAlL!!!1

[Slim Charless]

YoU dOn'T uNdErStAnD bAsKeTbAlL!!!1

. I know you say this as a little rib shot to the Ayton haters that think he should dunk more but it’s kind lame because in fact he should be finishing stronger. That’ll never happen though, we both know that.

He's saying that because you ppl constantly whine about Ayton. The 1st few years you only had dunks to cry about so you did. There was legit stuff to complain about but alot of you guys don't know basketball and don't understand what you're watching so "dUnKzZZzZ iZ KeWl" became your mantra.

I understand what I'm watching, you act like suns fans are the only people that see it. You aren't the 2nd coming of miss cleo dude.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em boys. No need to take offense if you're not the ones that the comment applies to. Fact remains that there are numerous posters here that never have and never will accept Ayton. Nothing the dude does, is ever correct. Nothing he can do can satisfy.

[lilfishi22]

Vogel loves Ayton and some of you need to get over it. He’s not getting traded.

Read on Twitter

Absolutely. It was clear from his first interview. Some people still in denial though.

Excited to see what Vogel can bring out of DA defensively.

It’s been said time and time again there aren’t many #1 centers you can draft who put up a near 20/10 type of numbers while 3 & D guys are easier to acquire. People are forgetting how well Ayton played for us in 21 and only focus on the last couple of years. Don’t be surprised if 21 Ayton comes swinging out of the gates to begin the season. Vogul is going to make him a better player just watch.

People also seem to ignore the last couple of years or just blame someone else for his poor form.

I wouldn't be shocked if 2021 Ayton comes swinging out the gate. I also wouldn't be surprised one bit if he comes back down to earth after that new coach energy wears out.

[lilfishi22]

I'm not really sold on Vogel meaning we get a new Ayton. Igor spent the entire season talking about how Ayton needed to work harder, then we hire Monty and the narrative is "Monty coached young AD and players love him, he'll be able to help develop and motive Ayton." We saw how that went. Now the narrative shifts to Vogel being the big man whisperer because he unlocked... Hibbert? Vucevic had his worst 2 seasons under Vogel in Orlando, but I don't see that mentioned.

We'll see what happens. It's easy to say you're going to get him involved on offense, but hard to achieve when he's the fourth banana.

Technically it's Fizdale who's the bigs whisperer because he got Bosh to shoot 3's

During that time he developed the reputation as “the Bigs whisper”. See as the story goes he plays a great role in Chris Bosh’s transition from a lanky 20-10 guy who played in the paint into a 6’11 3 point specialist and a much improved perimeter defender.

[lilfishi22]

We really about to trade Payne for salary relief…. Damn, everyone has to go huh?

Could just be TJ is more reliable from an availability standpoint. Payne's availability (and play) has been steadily dropping since he got here. He played 60 games in 2021, 58 in 2022 and 48 this past season.

[BobbieL]

Looks like Cam for cap space. He posted something to Mikal Bridges. Wonder if that means Brooklyn

Suns can than sign Bol Bol

My thought of TJ and Turner for Ayton - probably not happening

[sunsbum]

YoU dOn'T uNdErStAnD bAsKeTbAlL!!!1

He's saying that because you ppl constantly whine about Ayton. The 1st few years you only had dunks to cry about so you did. There was legit stuff to complain about but alot of you guys don't know basketball and don't understand what you're watching so "dUnKzZZzZ iZ KeWl" became your mantra.

I understand what I'm watching, you act like suns fans are the only people that see it. You aren't the 2nd coming of miss cleo dude.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em boys. No need to take offense if you're not the ones that the comment applies to. Fact remains that there are numerous posters here that never have and never will accept Ayton. Nothing the dude does, is ever correct. Nothing he can do can satisfy.

I dont take offense, I just think your basketball head is bigger than the MSG vegas sphere.

[Puff]

Looks like Cam for cap space. He posted something to Mikal Bridges. Wonder if that means Brooklyn

Suns can than sign Bol Bol

My thought of TJ and Turner for Ayton - probably not happening

Anyone know how Goodwin is doing? He left the first game in Vegas with a sore knee.

I do not think it makes much sense to just dump Payne for salary relief without a replacement coming in.

If Ishbia and company are worried about the money, aren't they a little too late?

Gambo does not think Indy would trade McConnell for Payne. I really like Payne and hope we keep him.

[sunsbg]

Absolutely. It was clear from his first interview. Some people still in denial though.

Excited to see what Vogel can bring out of DA defensively.

It’s been said time and time again there aren’t many #1 centers you can draft who put up a near 20/10 type of numbers while 3 & D guys are easier to acquire. People are forgetting how well Ayton played for us in 21 and only focus on the last couple of years. Don’t be surprised if 21 Ayton comes swinging out of the gates to begin the season. Vogul is going to make him a better player just watch.

People also seem to ignore the last couple of years or just blame someone else for his poor form.

I wouldn't be shocked if 2021 Ayton comes swinging out the gate. I also wouldn't be surprised one bit if he comes back down to earth after that new coach energy wears out.

But then you seem to ignore in '22 playoffs he had 20/10/2.5 on 70% FG series with Book out and half of his games in Mavs series were good, in rest the whole team sucked. Clippers series this year was OK-ish. The only real stinker was against what should have been a 3-time MVP though he played him very well in '21.

I can see both outcomes too, but still excited to see how Ayton plays under Vogel, who noted the relation between touches on offense and effort on defense in the video posted. Not sure where those touches come from with so many scorers on the team, but if they play unselfish a 60% scorer should be utilized. Fizdale's role in Bosh shooting 3s is also interesting. Still remember DA shooting 5/7 from three in the bubble and they never came back to it with CP3 running the show. I don't think Ayton is really bothered by the number of shots either. He just felt underappreciated and let this reflect on his game. We'll have to wait and see if playing for new owner and coach on a true title contender will motivate him again. I hope so, because his ceiling is a lot higher than Turner's.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Where's this Payne for salary relief coming from?

Makes no sense to have no point guards of any note.

[enigmatics]

Looks like Cam for cap space. He posted something to Mikal Bridges. Wonder if that means Brooklyn

Suns can than sign Bol Bol

My thought of TJ and Turner for Ayton - probably not happening

Good.

He can help them build the treadmill show we had growing in PHX

[enigmatics]

It’s been said time and time again there aren’t many #1 centers you can draft who put up a near 20/10 type of numbers while 3 & D guys are easier to acquire. People are forgetting how well Ayton played for us in 21 and only focus on the last couple of years. Don’t be surprised if 21 Ayton comes swinging out of the gates to begin the season. Vogul is going to make him a better player just watch.

People also seem to ignore the last couple of years or just blame someone else for his poor form.

I wouldn't be shocked if 2021 Ayton comes swinging out the gate. I also wouldn't be surprised one bit if he comes back down to earth after that new coach energy wears out.

But then you seem to ignore in '22 playoffs he had 20/10/2.5 on 70% FG series with Book out and half of his games in Mavs series were good, in rest the whole team sucked. Clippers series this year was OK-ish. The only real stinker was against what should have been a 3-time MVP though he played him very well in '21.

I can see both outcomes too, but still excited to see how Ayton plays under Vogel, who noted the relation between touches on offense and effort on defense in the video posted. Not sure where those touches come from with so many scorers on the team, but if they play unselfish a 60% scorer should be utilized. Fizdale's role in Bosh shooting 3s is also interesting. Still remember DA shooting 5/7 from three in the bubble and they never came back to it with CP3 running the show. I don't think Ayton is really bothered by the number of shots either. He just felt underappreciated and let this reflect on his game. We'll have to wait and see if playing for new owner and coach on a true title contender will motivate him again. I hope so, because his ceiling is a lot higher than Turner's.

TOUCHES ON OFFENSE! With the addition of Bradley Beal on top of the touches for Booker and KD. Do you even hear what you're saying?

This is just my opinion but you're in denial. This is not Sheandre's team. He's not even a 2nd option let alone a 3rd. Imagine telling yourself that given what I just said and that they're going to feed him more. If you haven't noticed yet this team continues to move further and further away from needing Ayton's offensive impact.

...... and DA shooting 3's? I've got beachfront property in Scottsdale to sell you if you think he's gonna flex out and start shooting those. Just stop. Bosh was already a better shooter outside of 10-12 ft than DA before he was a Heatle.

[sunsbg]

People also seem to ignore the last couple of years or just blame someone else for his poor form.

I wouldn't be shocked if 2021 Ayton comes swinging out the gate. I also wouldn't be surprised one bit if he comes back down to earth after that new coach energy wears out.

But then you seem to ignore in '22 playoffs he had 20/10/2.5 on 70% FG series with Book out and half of his games in Mavs series were good, in rest the whole team sucked. Clippers series this year was OK-ish. The only real stinker was against what should have been a 3-time MVP though he played him very well in '21.

I can see both outcomes too, but still excited to see how Ayton plays under Vogel, who noted the relation between touches on offense and effort on defense in the video posted. Not sure where those touches come from with so many scorers on the team, but if they play unselfish a 60% scorer should be utilized. Fizdale's role in Bosh shooting 3s is also interesting. Still remember DA shooting 5/7 from three in the bubble and they never came back to it with CP3 running the show. I don't think Ayton is really bothered by the number of shots either. He just felt underappreciated and let this reflect on his game. We'll have to wait and see if playing for new owner and coach on a true title contender will motivate him again. I hope so, because his ceiling is a lot higher than Turner's.

TOUCHES ON OFFENSE! With the addition of Bradley Beal on top of the touches for Booker and KD. Do you even hear what you're saying?

This is just my opinion but you're in denial. This is not Sheandre's team. He's not even a 2nd option let alone a 3rd. Imagine telling yourself that given what I just said and that they're going to feed him more. If you haven't noticed yet this team continues to move further and further away from needing Ayton's offensive impact.

...... and DA shooting 3's? I've got beachfront property in Scottsdale to sell you if you think he's gonna flex out and start shooting those. Just stop. Bosh was already a better shooter outside of 10-12 ft than DA before he was a Heatle.

I already said it's a waste of time discussing anything with you when it comes to Ayton. Check Vogel's quote on p.78. I guess you know better than him.

[SunsRback4Good]

People also seem to ignore the last couple of years or just blame someone else for his poor form.

I wouldn't be shocked if 2021 Ayton comes swinging out the gate. I also wouldn't be surprised one bit if he comes back down to earth after that new coach energy wears out.

But then you seem to ignore in '22 playoffs he had 20/10/2.5 on 70% FG series with Book out and half of his games in Mavs series were good, in rest the whole team sucked. Clippers series this year was OK-ish. The only real stinker was against what should have been a 3-time MVP though he played him very well in '21.

I can see both outcomes too, but still excited to see how Ayton plays under Vogel, who noted the relation between touches on offense and effort on defense in the video posted. Not sure where those touches come from with so many scorers on the team, but if they play unselfish a 60% scorer should be utilized. Fizdale's role in Bosh shooting 3s is also interesting. Still remember DA shooting 5/7 from three in the bubble and they never came back to it with CP3 running the show. I don't think Ayton is really bothered by the number of shots either. He just felt underappreciated and let this reflect on his game. We'll have to wait and see if playing for new owner and coach on a true title contender will motivate him again. I hope so, because his ceiling is a lot higher than Turner's.

TOUCHES ON OFFENSE! With the addition of Bradley Beal on top of the touches for Booker and KD. Do you even hear what you're saying?

This is just my opinion but you're in denial. This is not Sheandre's team. He's not even a 2nd option let alone a 3rd. Imagine telling yourself that given what I just said and that they're going to feed him more. If you haven't noticed yet this team continues to move further and further away from needing Ayton's offensive impact.

...... and DA shooting 3's? I've got beachfront property in Scottsdale to sell you if you think he's gonna flex out and start shooting those. Just stop. Bosh was already a better shooter outside of 10-12 ft than DA before he was a Heatle.

Now I’m interested in your lucrative offer. But to be frank, AZ does not currently have a beach unless you travel to Tucson, which is approximately 215 miles from the closest ocean beach located in Puerto Penasco, Mexico.

[SunsRback4Good]

But then you seem to ignore in '22 playoffs he had 20/10/2.5 on 70% FG series with Book out and half of his games in Mavs series were good, in rest the whole team sucked. Clippers series this year was OK-ish. The only real stinker was against what should have been a 3-time MVP though he played him very well in '21.

I can see both outcomes too, but still excited to see how Ayton plays under Vogel, who noted the relation between touches on offense and effort on defense in the video posted. Not sure where those touches come from with so many scorers on the team, but if they play unselfish a 60% scorer should be utilized. Fizdale's role in Bosh shooting 3s is also interesting. Still remember DA shooting 5/7 from three in the bubble and they never came back to it with CP3 running the show. I don't think Ayton is really bothered by the number of shots either. He just felt underappreciated and let this reflect on his game. We'll have to wait and see if playing for new owner and coach on a true title contender will motivate him again. I hope so, because his ceiling is a lot higher than Turner's.

TOUCHES ON OFFENSE! With the addition of Bradley Beal on top of the touches for Booker and KD. Do you even hear what you're saying?

This is just my opinion but you're in denial. This is not Sheandre's team. He's not even a 2nd option let alone a 3rd. Imagine telling yourself that given what I just said and that they're going to feed him more. If you haven't noticed yet this team continues to move further and further away from needing Ayton's offensive impact.

...... and DA shooting 3's? I've got beachfront property in Scottsdale to sell you if you think he's gonna flex out and start shooting those. Just stop. Bosh was already a better shooter outside of 10-12 ft than DA before he was a Heatle.

I already said it's a waste of time discussing anything with you when it comes to Ayton. Check Vogel's quote on p.78. I guess you know better than him.

I want Ayton to succeed just like the next person does but he’s correct on Ayton getting less touches. If DA was complaining while have Monty as a coach who prides on ball movement and CP3 who’s an expert passer, who exactly will dish the ball to Ayton? My only hope is Saben Lee if he plays amazingly and is inserted in the starting lineup. Saben is good at driving inside and finding an open shooter and can create easier shots for Ayton.

[sunsbg]

I want Ayton to succeed just like the next person does but he’s correct on Ayton getting less touches. If DA was complaining while have Monty as a coach who prides on ball movement and CP3 who’s an expert passer, who exactly will dish the ball to Ayton? My only hope is Saben Lee if he plays amazingly and is inserted in the starting lineup. Saben is good at driving inside and finding an open shooter and can create easier shots for Ayton.

As I said I don't think Ayton will complain about touches if he feels appreciated. I guess his FGA will be in 10-12 range once they build chemistry with KD and Beal on the PnRs. I have heard a few times EJ criticize Book for his entry passing, so hopefully there is improvement too. I can see DA being unhappy if he's getting 6-7 shots like in a few games after KD trade when the likes of Okogie and Ross took more. With the gravity of Suns star perimeter players he should get a lot of opportunities inside. If they play unselfish opposing teams will have to choose their poison, getting killed from inside or outside.