2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion

[sunsbum]

Might actually be apt in this case. I've never seen any sort of analytical thought process coming from sunsfan101. Just licking Aytons balls post after post. No breakdowns of players, how they fit into the roster, what the roles are, what the future looks like. Kind of sad but its whatever. I've gotten pretty good at ignoring people like that. Good skill to have.

We got 2 known role players and 1 potential role player for a guy who has played at role player to upper role player level for several seasons now outside of one post season. And given that this trade occurred he probably didn't even want to be here. 3 real guys for 1 guy who didn't want to play here. It could be worse.

If he has as much potential as some people think he does, he wouldn't reach it here as the 4th option. Ayton fans should be glad he gets a chance to prove himself. They can go watch the Blazers now like how they were telling us people who wanted to draft Doncic to watch the Mavs.

And yeah, I am interested to see how he looks on the Blazers. I think he will be better (more motivated).

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the look on my trailblazer buddies faces when he pulls his first triple pump fake fade on a 6'5 SG. In all honesty I hope Portland is better for him, he seemed to be entering a bad place mentally in PHX and I wouldn't be shocked if he was using 2k as a way to escape some of his real world basketball/life issues.

DA will continue defecAyton in Portland.

lol wait is this a sidewalk poop reference

[sunsbum]

If Cam Payne goes to Milwaukee I'm going to be pissed.

[Djedefre]

Blazers needed the Suns to facilitate trading Dame. One could argue that Ayton had to be traded eventually, after everything that happened or that his value wasn't exactly sky-high. But what we got for him is hot garbage - Nurkic will be barely playable in PO, just wait and see; Keon is a frontrunner for next waive, Little is like 10th or 11th guy in rotation level; Allen is yet another end of the bench guy and an absolute prick.

We made a trade that was instant quality downgrade for us and at the same helped other contender. If the idea was just to dump Ayton, they could've at least scoop a second round pick or two in the process. This is bad on so many levels.

This Ishbia guy built a fantastically dysfunctional team that'll take years (which we don't have) to gel into something meaningful. But it's okay, he can start anew and completely overhaul the whole roster in a year, but this time not forgetting to also ship Booker and the ballboy. That sounds really fun.

[King4Day]

I think enough time has passed for people to vent about the trade. Let's try to move into a positive direction. It's making this place toxic

[bwoolf2]

I think enough time has passed for people to vent about the trade. Let's try to move into a positive direction. It's making this place toxic

Good luck it's been toxic why most posters left

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think enough time has passed for people to vent about the trade. Let's try to move into a positive direction. It's making this place toxic

Good luck it's been toxic why most posters left

I don't think an exorcism would even be enough to remove the toxicity of this board.

People refraining from replying to the couple obvious trolls might help.

Sent from my SM-F731U using RealGM mobile app

[matt131]

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707510930974888366

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707512371324100824

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707514165789884469

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707515812356215159

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707517037957026051

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707517657111724265

[WeekapaugGroove]

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707510930974888366

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707512371324100824

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707514165789884469

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707515812356215159

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707517037957026051

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707517657111724265

David always has some smart points but I really think this trade was far far more about removing Ayton and his contact than it was about who they got back.

It's really as simple as they didn't believe in him anymore and I suspect that includes guys like Booker and KD. It's also about breaking that max contract slot into 3 smaller contracts. You can have 3 max guys and find a way to get under the second apron, it's pretty much impossible with 4. So this off-season they chose Beal taking that slot over Ayton. Well see if it's the right move. I also think it gives them more lineup and offensive freedom because there was a level of minutes and involvement you felt DA needed. If Nurk wants to complain they can tell him to **** off much easier and his contact is also easier to trade if you had to.

Sent from my SM-F731U using RealGM mobile app

[garrick]

Blazers needed the Suns to facilitate trading Dame. One could argue that Ayton had to be traded eventually, after everything that happened or that his value wasn't exactly sky-high. But what we got for him is hot garbage - Nurkic will be barely playable in PO, just wait and see; Keon is a frontrunner for next waive, Little is like 10th or 11th guy in rotation level; Allen is yet another end of the bench guy and an absolute prick.

We made a trade that was instant quality downgrade for us and at the same helped other contender. If the idea was just to dump Ayton, they could've at least scoop a second round pick or two in the process. This is bad on so many levels.

This Ishbia guy built a fantastically dysfunctional team that'll take years (which we don't have) to gel into something meaningful. But it's okay, he can start anew and completely overhaul the whole roster in a year, but this time not forgetting to also ship Booker and the ballboy. That sounds really fun.

This deal was done partly for salary concerns.

Little and Johnson are on super affordable deals so I think it was a way to fill some spots on the roster this season even if they turn out to be end of the bench guys.

Grayson Allen is a turd but he can be useful as a pesky defender and decent 3pt shooter or possible trade bait as an expiring contract.

It will be interesting to see where we are as a team several years from now when KD will be in his late 30's and Beal will be in his early 30's, if their performance drops off significantly will Book be willing to slog through a season carrying this team all by himself?

[sunsfan1o1]

Or non groupy men who don’t care about below average nba players don’t care. There’s always 9,999 reasons. Don’t be so naive.

YOU DOn'T KnOW BAsKEEtbALl!

Might actually be apt in this case. I've never seen any sort of analytical thought process coming from sunsfan101. Just licking Aytons balls post after post. No breakdowns of players, how they fit into the roster, what the roles are, what the future looks like. Kind of sad but its whatever. I've gotten pretty good at ignoring people like that. Good skill to have.

We got 2 known role players and 1 potential role player for a guy who has played at role player to upper role player level for several seasons now outside of one post season. And given that this trade occurred he probably didn't even want to be here. 3 real guys for 1 guy who didn't want to play here. It could be worse.

If he has as much potential as some people think he does, he wouldn't reach it here as the 4th option. Ayton fans should be glad he gets a chance to prove himself. They can go watch the Blazers now like how they were telling us people who wanted to draft Doncic to watch the Mavs.

And yeah, I am interested to see how he looks on the Blazers. I think he will be better (more motivated).

Lol. I have a life doing things that actually matter. You’re gonna have to pay me for that.
Obviously you don’t read. Cuz I don’t care about trading Ayton. I care about giving the bucks Dame and probably lakers, clippers or warriors Jrue and we get what we got.
I also said I would’ve rather 2 first round pick swaps for DA than what we got.

[King4Day]

If Nurk takes #27, who was the last Sun with that number?

[Crives]

Feels like a trade is coming or being explored.

[bullsaficianado]

The Ayton trade is a little disappointing as I was hoping they would hold onto him. I like Nurkic, Allen in the deal. However Ayton was not a complete flop as a Sun and being a #1 draft pick. The Suns did make the Finals with him on the roster. That's more you can claim than some #1 picks. Ultimately the Suns decided to end the Ayton experiment and yes it was likely a salary related move along with maybe Ayton wanted out. Still it's not like the Suns did not have some success with Ayton picked at #1, they did. So should they have picked Doncic, yes, but Ayton was not a total bust is what I am trying to say. He is still a developing player. If he winds up putting up Drob stats than Blazers got a steal. Suns though are in win now mode they don't want to keep developing a player.

[darealjuice]

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707510930974888366

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707512371324100824

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707514165789884469

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707515812356215159

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707517037957026051

https://x.com/theivpointplay/status/1707517657111724265

David always has some smart points but I really think this trade was far far more about removing Ayton and his contact than it was about who they got back.

It's really as simple as they didn't believe in him anymore and I suspect that includes guys like Booker and KD. It's also about breaking that max contract slot into 3 smaller contracts. You can have 3 max guys and find a way to get under the second apron, it's pretty much impossible with 4. So this off-season they chose Beal taking that slot over Ayton. Well see if it's the right move. I also think it gives them more lineup and offensive freedom because there was a level of minutes and involvement you felt DA needed. If Nurk wants to complain they can tell him to **** off much easier and his contact is also easier to trade if you had to.

Sent from my SM-F731U using RealGM mobile app

I don't think there's any doubt that getting rid of Ayton was the main goal. There's not much reason to take this trade now given Ayton's "upside" unless you're done with him.

I just can't imagine Nurkic complaining about touches playing with KD, Booker, and Beal. I get it when you're playing with a bunch of young guys jacking up shots on a garbage team, but he's just here to play defense, set good screens, run DHOs, and pass the ball.

[lonea]

Ayton fans will never get it. No one really wanted to sign him to the max, no one really wanted to give up any value for him. Truth is a hard pill to swallow I guess.

Then.... you....keep....him.

Giving him away for bum like Nurk and much less paying for the honor is stupid. Something 1 of the haters would do here.

It was a silly move.

The silly move wasn’t trading Ayton. The silly move wasn’t trading Ayton for Nurkic. The silly move was helping the Bucks get Lillard and now probably Clippers, Warriors or Lakers getting Jrue.
How dumb can you be to do that?

LOL, once again. Ayton have no value.

[lonea]

If Cam Payne goes to Milwaukee I'm going to be pissed.

Cam payne sucks?

[lonea]

DA will continue defecAyton in Portland.

do you mean he will "DominAyton"?

[lilfishi22]

But I still struggle with the awful return. I would've rather traded DA for Walker Kessler straight up. Or Turner. Or Capela. Or any number of Cs other than Nurkic, who while being a good passer, sucks at everything else way more than DA does even when DA is not trying. I would rather run a rotation of Eubanks and Bol Bol than play Nurk 25+ MPG. He only is a good matchup for giant throwback Cs who are not in the league anymore aside from maybe 3 dudes.

Little has upside, but Keon Johnson is worse than Cam Payne, who we could sign right now if we wanted to.

Allen may help now but I doubt the upgrade of him relative to buyout candidates mid season and ring chasing vets is really that large to warrant what we did here.

Dude doesn't have that kind of value

[lilfishi22]

I don’t think Suns will have another player as polarizing as DeAndre Ayton for a very long time. Many fans hated him and then many fans defended him like crazy. I’ve already seen some tweets of people saying they were Suns fans since the Charles Barkley days and are now leaving to become fans of the Blazers or some other team because of this trade.

Personally I think he was a big reason the Suns made the finals. However he never put forth that same level of consistent effort ever again. Absolutely wasted a #1 overall pick in a draft in that has had at least 2 generational talents.

Overall, he’s probably my least favorite Suns player to play in Phoenix when considering expectations, contract etc.

+1 but it is what it is

I think any rational fan should give him the credit he deserved for the 2021 playoff run. Whether he's the most important player or #2 or #3 to you, we definitely do not go to the Finals without him. But I also think we can and should reasonably expect at least that level of impact moving forward given he's shown that and I just don't think he ever got back to that peak, and one could even argue last season might've been his worst since his rookie season especially on the defensive end.

I think when you have b2b seasons where you're just not close to the player you were during that Finals run, you're going to be put under a microscope, in particular when you're getting paid the max. Some fans don't believe we made a mistake in the 2018 draft but I've made peace with that decision because most experts saw it was either Luka or DA and we went with the more known quantity. We obviously lost out on that but then again, who knows whether Luka takes the Mavs back to the WCF or further again before he leaves.

Coming back to your comment about wasting the #1 pick....in my books, we already won the lottery drafting Booker at #13. We have no business expecting him to turn into the best SG in the league, leading the Suns to a Finals run, being in the MVP conversation and being a top 3 player in franchise history from a prospect picked near the end of the lottery.

[lilfishi22]

Grayson Allen's advanced stats are actually pretty good.
TS% Regular Season last year: 61%
TS% Playoffs last year: 65.8% (he shot 48% from three! Yes, in 5 games, but dang)
FTr of 22.6%

To compare…
Deandre's stats last year
TS% Regular Season last year: 61.2%
TS% Playoffs last year: 55.3%
FTr of 22.5%

Grayson Allen, who is 6'4" and shoots 65.7% of his shots from 3, has the same free throw rate as DA.
Dude can freaking stroke it from deep. I would not be surprised if he starts. It will cause problems defensively, but wow, he’s the perfect guy to kick out to. Having him AND Eric Gordon on the same team is ridiculous. Grayson seems to shoot pretty darn well off movement, but can still hit from far beyond the three point line. Gordon is a little more of a stand still shooter, but it seems like we have the best three point shooting players this team has seen in a while in terms of volume, percentage, shot type, and consistency.

I can see him starting although I would prefer more size as the 5th starter. But yes, I think what we get in an unproven Goodwin, you have in a more proven Allen. Shooting, defense, foundation level playmaking.