Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues

[JDLAW]

I have this horrible feeling the Spurs are going to offer Dragic a max and he'll torture us for years...

damn you for even thinking about this, as likely and logical as it sounds...

I think Dragic will give us a discount. Not a big one, but I don't see him demanding 5 years 100mil. The number someone threw out of 5 @ 80 I could def see. Or maybe between 80 and 90. Knowing teams will likely offer him max (Lakers/Knicks for sure), we at least have something cheaper. This way, he gets more than EB but doesn't strangle us entirely. It'd also mean we are all in with the guys we have for the next half decade.

He is not eligible for 5 years from another team - four years max. He will be eligible for as much as 30% of the salary cap, but it is unlikely anyone would pay that much for him. Based on this year's number ($17.7) a 4 year deal from another team would yield about $76M.

Not directed specifically at you Darkhawk, but before you all go into panic about Dragic and what other teams can do, learn the rules of the CBA and where he fits in.

[toucansma]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/515168473434312704[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/515168945058226176[/tweet]

Consider the 3.5 million money well spent in keeping Goran.

Also, not the worst talent to have at the back of the bench.

Bye bye Joe Jackson.

Agreed. At least it's not like the Chris Smith/JR Smith deal either (well I doubt it I don't see Goran doing that plus Zoran has potential).

[MCoster]

16 guaranteed contracts now?

[JDLAW]

So I think Green is probably our most movable asset going forward now, and I know McD traded for em, but I think the real prize he was after was the pick and Plumlee. There would definitely be a handful of teams interested in him but I doubt they would give up any real assets for a rental, or if they do, it will be a high-risk high-reward type prospect.
Cleveland might be interested in trading Tristan Thompson since Kevin Love will be starting, and he is due for a contract extension. I personally wouldn't want to go after em because I don't want to deal with Rich Paul again, and I don't really think he is the PF I envision the Suns getting.
I'd like to see if the Hornets are interested in trading Ryan Anderson for Gerald Green. I think there was a rumor of a deal around draft day, but I don't recall. He isn't exactly the prototypical PF but he would certainly be an upgrade over Frye, and I think Dragic would enjoy some pick and pops with em.

I'd feel better if the Suns made a deal so we didn't have a logjam at the guard position, and I'd rather have Green at SF than Tucker, but if we could deal him for a PF/C that could contribute now, I'd prefer that. I also think Warren is our SF of the future, hopefully he is starting in his 2nd season if he develops like I think he will.

I think you misjudge the relationship between Green and McD. McD was a big part in drafting him at Boston and the Suns genuinely like him. He also likes the Suns. I do not see the Suns moving him as a throw in or for some of the crap some of you are talking about. There has been a faction of fans that have wanted to move Green regardless of how much he contributes. I do not see a diminished role for him. In fact I see an expanded role for him at the 3 position. We saw that toward the end of last season when Green played a at the 3 position with Bledsoe and Dragic in the backcourt.

[bwgood77]

Ennis has to be most likely to be dealt.

There are plenty of teams who could give up a big for him...I'm looking at you Toronto - I'd take either Nogueira or Amir for him...

To the Nets for PLUMLEE! haha. I'd actually love Teletovic here, that guy can shoot and could play the Frye role.

To the Bucks for Henson is a no brainer for us, doubt it for them though.

I think we hang onto him for a bit. A guy drafted around 20 doesn't hold much trade value. He definitely wouldn't get a guy like Amir or Henson, not that I want Henson anyway. I think he could be traded for another rookie, particularly on a young rebuilding team. Maybe something like Milwaukee for Middleton would make sense, but I don't think we need to hurry into anything.

[Sun Scorched]

Guards - #1 Goran Dragic, #2 Eric Bledsoe, #3 Isaiah Thomas, #4 Gerald Green, #5 Archie Goodwin, #6 Zoran Dragic, #7 Tyler Ennis

Forwards - #8 PJ Tucker, #9 TJ Warren, #10 Markieff Morris, #11 Marcus Morris, #12 Anthony Tolliver, #13 Jamil Wilson, #14 Shavlik Randolph

Centers - #15 Miles Plumlee, #16 Alex Len

Rights - Bogdan Bogdanovich, Alec Brown

On a side note, I'm seeing that Shamsports doesn't show us as having signed Ennis yet - that true?

[bwgood77]

So I think Green is probably our most movable asset going forward now, and I know McD traded for em, but I think the real prize he was after was the pick and Plumlee. There would definitely be a handful of teams interested in him but I doubt they would give up any real assets for a rental, or if they do, it will be a high-risk high-reward type prospect.
Cleveland might be interested in trading Tristan Thompson since Kevin Love will be starting, and he is due for a contract extension. I personally wouldn't want to go after em because I don't want to deal with Rich Paul again, and I don't really think he is the PF I envision the Suns getting.
I'd like to see if the Hornets are interested in trading Ryan Anderson for Gerald Green. I think there was a rumor of a deal around draft day, but I don't recall. He isn't exactly the prototypical PF but he would certainly be an upgrade over Frye, and I think Dragic would enjoy some pick and pops with em.

I'd feel better if the Suns made a deal so we didn't have a logjam at the guard position, and I'd rather have Green at SF than Tucker, but if we could deal him for a PF/C that could contribute now, I'd prefer that. I also think Warren is our SF of the future, hopefully he is starting in his 2nd season if he develops like I think he will.

I think you misjudge the relationship between Green and McD. McD was a big part in drafting him at Boston and the Suns genuinely like him. He also likes the Suns. I do not see the Suns moving him as a throw in or for some of the crap some of you are talking about. There has been a faction of fans that have wanted to move Green regardless of how much he contributes. I do not see a diminished role for him. In fact I see an expanded role for him at the 3 position. We saw that toward the end of last season when Green played a at the 3 position with Bledsoe and Dragic in the backcourt.

I agree, and guys on expiring contracts don't hold much trade value (unless they are stars). Not worth trading imo.

[Puff]

And I would not get too attached to Green, and I certainly would not sweat re-signing him a year from now, which I'd almost guarantee will not happen.

I think Green's role is going to shrink, he will have to play most of his minutes at the 3, which will keep him off the court frequently for matchup reasons (because he cant defend anyone), and if TJ Warren comes out strong then Green's minutes will erode rapidly. IMO he is the most likely to be traded player on the roster, and I would not be all that shocked if it happened before the season started.

I can see us moving Green now or later. However I can see him staying as well.

This is the beauty of signing Bledsoe to that contract. We have a lot of options now and going forward.

I can see us moving numerous players if the right opportunity presents itself. That is also the reason I don't mind the signing of Zoran at this time. If as reported, he plays defense, something we can always use.

I expect that everything will work out just fine with Goran next summer but if it doesn't that could open up minutes for Green going forward.

I would expect us to use IT2 in a trade if the right trade opened up to get a legit big. Who knows what the true feeling about Bledsoe is. While I don't expect us to trade him. If the right deal presents itself I can see us moving him as well. If either IT2 or Bledsoe are traded that opens minutes for Green. Everyone is high on Warren, along with me, but he has not played an NBA game yet and does not possess a legit 3 point shot at this point, Green does.

The whole point is that we are in a much better position today than yesterday and I have no idea what our team will actually look like in total for the start of this season and for sure the start of next season. The good news is that we have assets to go out and acquire players to make us better. Unfortunately I do not see any bigs that are currently available that would make us better. This seasons results are really dependent on how well Len and Plumlee hold down the 5. If Markieff and or Marcus have monster years we could be very good this year while adding to our growing stockpile assets going forward.

I really like where this team is at this point.

Let's play ball

[JJ13]

Guards - #1 Goran Dragic, #2 Eric Bledsoe, #3 Isaiah Thomas, #4 Gerald Green, #5 Archie Goodwin, #6 Zoran Dragic, #7 Tyler Ennis

Pretty funny that those are Goran, Bled & Thomas's jersey numbers...basically our PG depth chart ha

[RunDogGun]

If the coaches and FO think Goodwin has made enough of a stride, I could see us dealing Green or letting him walk this summer. Solid player of course but we just paid IT to do the same thing he does. Shoot bad shots and score.

Give Warren a season or two and if he appears to be the next coming of a star, we can deal off Tucker or Marcus (preferably).


With all the youth we have, that leaves us with hoping Memphis is terrible this season and Marc Gasol wants out. Then we deal for him and go with a pretty competitive lineup moving forward.

A few things: I think the team thinks Goodwin is another year off from cracking the rotation. If we aren't close to making the playoffs by the deadline, I could see us dealing Green, or if Warren just kicks major arse.

I don't think we will deal Marcus unless we are also dealing Markief. I think they will sign as a package, and if it includes that if traded, they go together, we may be able to get them to sign for a cheaper deal.

So that may leave dealing Tucker, but I really only hope that happens if Warren can play a similar defense.

[Sun Scorched]

We HAVE to be packaging players/picks for something....

I disagree with anyone who is not a Suns fan that insinuates Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas can't work - I think it will work beautifully. But I still think that Bledsoe would be the first traded of those three.

That leaves Green, Goodwin and Ennis looking for minutes here. I think Green should play SF for us, alongside Warren (who still needs to earn PT) long-term. That presents challenges for both Tucker and Marcus.

Markieff will start at PF this year (I'm pumped) and we begin to become a bit "thinner" here - Tolliver is really the only serviceable player behind Markieff - this seems to indicate a ton of small ball.

Plumlee and Len at C in our big lineups.

Check this out:

PG - Thomas
SG - Bledsoe
SF - Dragic
PF - Green
C - Markieff

Mwuahahahahahahaha - that's the, "We're down by 23 points, but not our of the game as long as we drain 8 threes in a row" lineup.

[RunDogGun]

I have this horrible feeling the Spurs are going to offer Dragic a max and he'll torture us for years...

They have never been a team to throw out a bunch of cash. But maybe that is why we worked so hard to get Zoran.

[Sunsdeuce]

16 guaranteed contracts now?

Yeah, there has to be some sorta trade that is going to happen.


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[RunDogGun]

We HAVE to be packaging players/picks for something....

I disagree with anyone who is not a Suns fan that insinuates Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas can't work - I think it will work beautifully. But I still think that Bledsoe would be the first traded of those three.

That leaves Green, Goodwin and Ennis looking for minutes here. I think Green should play SF for us, alongside Warren (who still needs to earn PT) long-term. That presents challenges for both Tucker and Marcus.

Markieff will start at PF this year (I'm pumped) and we begin to become a bit "thinner" here - Tolliver is really the only serviceable player behind Markieff - this seems to indicate a ton of small ball.

Plumlee and Len at C in our big lineups.

Check this out:

PG - Thomas
SG - Bledsoe
SF - Dragic
PF - Green
C - Markieff

Mwuahahahahahahaha - that's the, "We're down by 23 points, but not our of the game as long as we drain 8 threes in a row" lineup.

I could see a few times where the Mo bros play the 4/5 spot, if the spacing gets tight for our guards.

[JJ13]

16 guaranteed contracts now?

Yeah, there has to be some sorta trade that is going to happen.


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McD said on the radio yesterday that we were only at 14 guaranteed contracts without Zoran...so I think we are now at 15

[ShawnBronald]

Suns are really going to be taking advantage of owning their own D-League team this season. Hopefully that really pays off (and I think it will).

[wheezy]

16 guaranteed contracts now?

Yeah, there has to be some sorta trade that is going to happen.


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McD said on the radio yesterday that we were only at 14 guaranteed contracts without Zoran...so I think we are now at 15

None of the Jamil White articles have made it sound like he was anything other than a training camp body. We should still be at 15.

[SideSwipe]

5/$70 million... Rich Paul did a terrible job representing his client

I think Robert Sarver was willing to give him that money in July if Bledsoe had wanted to negotiate.
In an interview in May, Sarver said that he was seeing next Bledsoe's contract between 7-14 million and for 4 years.
This means that he was willing to pay 14 per year...and finally the extra year because Bledsoe is an "special" guy.

I love the contract, I really think that he deserves around $13-14M per year, he is way better than Lowry, Lawson or Holiday and the cap is going up every year.
Probably,if he stays healthy, in 2-3 years that fith year it will be seen like an steal.

I think it is disingenuous to say that this deal could have been struck in July. Just like Sarver said, his ceiling on Bled was around $14 million. In a negotiation circumstances dictate the price tag. The circumstances in July did not dictate that Sarver and crew go up to 5/70.

The process played itself out and in the end Rich Paul was able to secure Bledsoe $22 million (GUARANTEED) over and above the initial offer proffered by the Suns.

Bottom line, it is time for Rich Paul haters to eat crow. Paul did well by is client and I give him props.



Side note: Suns got a steal. Come 2016 free agency this deal will be viewed as a bargain.

Paul did not do right by his client. he could have had this deal in July, without the muck-raking that Bledsoe's name got. He played it wrong, he thought he would get more and get the max, that's why all of the value leaks were put out there. There were other teams that legitimately valued him at Max. PHX wins, no crow to be eaten here. I guarantee you other draftees will think twice about using Paul considering all of the bad press Bledsoe got. The end doe not justify the means in this case- especially when the same ending could have been had 2 months earlier.

[JJ13]

Found this interesting...not that we want another injury prone big man, but IF he could stay healthy, Brook Lopez is a good fit at center for the Suns.

http://fromrussiawithdunk.com/2014/09/2 ... pproaches/

If Nets suck the first half of the year, with Plumlee's improvement, I could see Nets dealing Lopez for assets, of which the Suns have plenty

[LukasBMW]

Guards - #1 Goran Dragic, #2 Eric Bledsoe, #3 Isaiah Thomas, #4 Gerald Green, #5 Archie Goodwin, #6 Zoran Dragic, #7 Tyler Ennis

Forwards - #8 PJ Tucker, #9 TJ Warren, #10 Markieff Morris, #11 Marcus Morris, #12 Anthony Tolliver, #13 Jamil Wilson, #14 Shavlik Randolph

Centers - #15 Miles Plumlee, #16 Alex Len

Rights - Bogdan Bogdanovich, Alec Brown

On a side note, I'm seeing that Shamsports doesn't show us as having signed Ennis yet - that true?

I'd bet Jamil Wilson is a non guaranteed deal. I wouldn't be surprised if we picked up another body or two for a camp deal.

Only way we keep Jamil or whatever other camp guys we sign is if someone gets moved. But I think it's a higher chance that Jamil is just a body for camp and we aren't planning on trading anyone.