Trade & FA Ideas & Discussion

[kennydorglas]

from reddit:

[Mulhollanddrive]

Why would Williams sign for the extra 2 years, it's of no benefit for him.

- If he plays well he's locked into below market salary
- If he doesn't play well he gets cut

But if this is the case it looks like Len will get a similar deal and we'll target a star C in the future.

[DirtyDez]

[RaisingArizona]

[Mulhollanddrive]

Gambo says deal is dead now that Jackson is off the table, other teams have better offers.

[Kerrsed]

Gambo says deal is dead now that Jackson is off the table, other teams have better offers.

Source?

[Mulhollanddrive]

http://arizonasports.com/category/podcast_player/?a=334066&sid=1005&n=Burns+%26+Gambo

Between 13-20 minute mark.

[cberry78]

Gambo says deal is dead now that Jackson is off the table, other teams have better offers.

Source?

Um, he said Gambo.

[grumpysaddle]

[Mulhollanddrive]

Wonder if that's just Booker doing that on his own or he has some direction from FO.

[Jdiddy701]

Wonder if that's just Booker doing that on his own or he has some direction from FO.

Well Kyrie liked a video of Devin Booker on an IG post so he started it. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Phystic]

I don't think other players necessarily view this as him not getting the fame or usage he wants. I think most players realize Lebron is priming the team to bail and Irving wanting out before the dumpster is set on fire seems completely fair. I don't think these stars that are all demanding trades are going to look down on Irving for demanding a trade.

And I also don't think it's fair to simply say we won't compete right away if we get him so what's the point. By that logic we never should have traded for Bledsoe in the first place. And the Suns don't appear to have any interest in trading Jackson. Otherwise the trade would already be complete I feel. I think its a matter of would you rather resign Bledsoe and Warren to large contracts and hope our current youth turns into stars(while also having to find a way to pay them all), or would you rather consolidate a few pieces to get an upgrade at PG. Despite what people are saying in this thread, Irving IS an upgrade over Bledsoe. Talentwise at least. Despite his short comings he's still the better player. Now arguing that he doesn't fit our team make-up is completely fair and valid.

I personally would probably rather not get Irving but try to facilitate (while sending Bledsoe to Cleveland) a trade that nets us a young PG that fits our rosters timeline.

The reason we'd need to contend for, at the very least, the playoffs right away with Irving is because he will be an unrestricted free agent in just 2 years. Trading for him, losing games and then losing him for nothing as a free agent would be a complete disaster.

And I agree that Irving is more talented than Bledsoe, but I don't know that his talent translates to winning games when he isn't being lifted up by one of the greatest players in history. The stats so far say "no".

I'm for consolidating our assets somewhere down the line (and for moving Warren before having to pay him 15+ million a year, I like the guy buy he is too limited to throw a ton of money at) but I think Irving is fools gold.

And that's all completely fair. But you have to take some of that stuff with a grain of salt. For instance,it's assuming Irving would walk. ANY player we trade for is going to have the exact same circumstances. When was the last time a star player was traded with a 4 or 5 years remaining on their contract? It's always a couple years or even expiring. So unless a star player flat out says "I want to play in Phoenix and only Phoenix" it will always be a gamble trading for a star player. And keep in mind, we will be able to offer Irving more money than anyway, and that may not be a guarantee like it once was, but it's still a huge + for us.

And ya I know the stats Irving as a total ****show when Lebron is off the floor or even pre-lebron. But keep in mind the make-up of the team as well as the mentality. Irving very well may have tried to press and show how great he is when Lebron wasn't there. That wouldn't necessarily be the case when he has "his own" team. He would know he's the centerpiece and not a complimentary player. Now that doesn't mean he still isn't an incapable leader and facilitator, that could still very well be the case. However, sometimes you have to gamble in sports. We've seen to at least some degree what Irving is capable of. We don't know what he's capable of when he's away from the Cavs and Lebron. Harden struggled at times in OKC, and many thought he wasn't star material after his horrible Finals and now look at him. Carmelo was once thought of as the same level of talent as Lebron and could lead a team, that quickly was proven untrue. Nash was a broken down point guard and then completely changed the NBA. Different situations can have a huge impact on a players game and mentality.

With that said, I agree Irving may not translate into many wins. However, is that necessarily a bad thing for THIS year? If we can land Irving while keeping our young core(say Bledsoe, Dudley/Chandler, Miami '18 and Future Suns 1st) and still land a top 5 pick. That would be an absolutely buttload of assets and talent.Sure it may not be what Irving wants but it could also be a situation like the Warriors where players can grow together as a team. I think landing Irving for the Suns is strictly a matter of what we give up and the results as far W/L shouldn't be a huge factor in the SHORT TERM. In this proposed trade, even IF Irving walks we wouldn't lose anything of major value. Sure it would still hurt but it wouldn't be disastrous IMO.

[Mulhollanddrive]

George = Oladipo, Sabonis, Pick
Cousins = Hield, Pick
Butler = Lavine, Dunn, Pick Swap
Irving =

Depending on the cost of Irving we could have had the assets to get all 4.

[bwgood77]

I don't think other players necessarily view this as him not getting the fame or usage he wants. I think most players realize Lebron is priming the team to bail and Irving wanting out before the dumpster is set on fire seems completely fair. I don't think these stars that are all demanding trades are going to look down on Irving for demanding a trade.

And I also don't think it's fair to simply say we won't compete right away if we get him so what's the point. By that logic we never should have traded for Bledsoe in the first place. And the Suns don't appear to have any interest in trading Jackson. Otherwise the trade would already be complete I feel. I think its a matter of would you rather resign Bledsoe and Warren to large contracts and hope our current youth turns into stars(while also having to find a way to pay them all), or would you rather consolidate a few pieces to get an upgrade at PG. Despite what people are saying in this thread, Irving IS an upgrade over Bledsoe. Talentwise at least. Despite his short comings he's still the better player. Now arguing that he doesn't fit our team make-up is completely fair and valid.

I personally would probably rather not get Irving but try to facilitate (while sending Bledsoe to Cleveland) a trade that nets us a young PG that fits our rosters timeline.

The reason we'd need to contend for, at the very least, the playoffs right away with Irving is because he will be an unrestricted free agent in just 2 years. Trading for him, losing games and then losing him for nothing as a free agent would be a complete disaster.

And I agree that Irving is more talented than Bledsoe, but I don't know that his talent translates to winning games when he isn't being lifted up by one of the greatest players in history. The stats so far say "no".

I'm for consolidating our assets somewhere down the line (and for moving Warren before having to pay him 15+ million a year, I like the guy buy he is too limited to throw a ton of money at) but I think Irving is fools gold.

And that's all completely fair. But you have to take some of that stuff with a grain of salt. For instance,it's assuming Irving would walk. ANY player we trade for is going to have the exact same circumstances. When was the last time a star player was traded with a 4 or 5 years remaining on their contract? It's always a couple years or even expiring. So unless a star player flat out says "I want to play in Phoenix and only Phoenix" it will always be a gamble trading for a star player. And keep in mind, we will be able to offer Irving more money than anyway, and that may not be a guarantee like it once was, but it's still a huge + for us.

And ya I know the stats Irving as a total ****show when Lebron is off the floor or even pre-lebron. But keep in mind the make-up of the team as well as the mentality. Irving very well may have tried to press and show how great he is when Lebron wasn't there. That wouldn't necessarily be the case when he has "his own" team. He would know he's the centerpiece and not a complimentary player. Now that doesn't mean he still isn't an incapable leader and facilitator, that could still very well be the case. However, sometimes you have to gamble in sports. We've seen to at least some degree what Irving is capable of. We don't know what he's capable of when he's away from the Cavs and Lebron. Harden struggled at times in OKC, and many thought he wasn't star material after his horrible Finals and now look at him. Carmelo was once thought of as the same level of talent as Lebron and could lead a team, that quickly was proven untrue. Nash was a broken down point guard and then completely changed the NBA. Different situations can have a huge impact on a players game and mentality.

With that said, I agree Irving may not translate into many wins. However, is that necessarily a bad thing for THIS year? If we can land Irving while keeping our young core(say Bledsoe, Dudley/Chandler, Miami '18 and Future Suns 1st) and still land a top 5 pick. That would be an absolutely buttload of assets and talent.Sure it may not be what Irving wants but it could also be a situation like the Warriors where players can grow together as a team. I think landing Irving for the Suns is strictly a matter of what we give up and the results as far W/L shouldn't be a huge factor in the SHORT TERM. In this proposed trade, even IF Irving walks we wouldn't lose anything of major value. Sure it would still hurt but it wouldn't be disastrous IMO.

First bolded part: He did give a list of 4 teams he wanted to go to.

Second bolded part: If that is the deal I'd probably role the dice, but I'd need that future pick to have protection on it that didn't run out....turned into 2 2nds later.

[Kerrsed]

Ok, just listened to the Gambo podcast and jeez i hate that guy.

Burns tries to bring things up and Gambo just shuts them down right away. Burns even tried to ask him if his info was before or after it was known that Kyrie has demanded out, and Gambo wouldnt answer and instead jumps to another one of his points. "All of my Cleveland people in the know say its done, over with". Then when he is asked if the Cavs can somehow just hold on to Irving or is everything too far gone, Gambos response is "Well, JJ Adande thinks that Irving stays in Cleveland!!!".

[Mulhollanddrive]

At this stage I think the FO would have to low ball given risk of having to re-trade him in 12 months if he doesn't extend.

Bledsoe, Warren, Miami is the most I can see us doing unless Irving commits long term to us.

[lilfishi22]

I will always and1 Office gifs

[AtheJ415]

Everyone willing to just throw Chriss into a deal for Kyrie because he had a bad summer league baffle me. You all act like Kyrie is the 2nd coming again he is talented and is one of the best scorers of the basketball in the NBA, he is also one of the worst defenders of the basketball in the NBA and seems to have little to no care in making others around him better. I just don't see the fit with Booker it doesnt make sense. The Warriors do what they do because they all play selfless basketball and they all play D. Would I be willing to take a chance it works and trade Bled, Duds, and Miami 1st yes but thats it, and that is more than likely better than any offer they are going to get, unless they basically tell LeBron screw you and go all in on a rebuild knowing James is leaving and take back a bunch of young prospects and picks.

You have to give them something to make them accept the deal. You can't offer a downgrade at PG plus a bunch of scraps and expect them to take it.

Chriss averaged something like 17 and 7 after the all star break. In the real NBA. That compares to Kyrie at the same age. That is more than a throw-in.

Stars are not traded for fair value. Fans here keep throwing in insane trades that try to mirror fair value when that never happens in the NBA. Nobody trades 4-5 1st rounders plus guys of Bleds caliber in the same trades. I would argue taking on Shump (which normally would cost Cle a 1st), while including Bled (probably worth a couple 1sts) and Chriss (definitely worth a 1st) and extras is too much and not close to the traditional star trade. Cleveland, if anything, will get less because it became public that he wants out.

The standard is 3 1sts for a star. That is usually what happens. Also, just because the Cavs want a young player doesn't mean they will get one.

Bledsoe averages 20, 6, and 4 with much better D than Kyrie, and a much better relationship with Lebron than Kyrie. Kyrie is a better player than Bled, but not by that much, and is arguably a worse fit for Cle than Bled.

All we have to do is beat the next best offer. If Minnesota is willing to include Wiggins we aren't winning this trade anyways. Cleveland will take that. Melo maybe too, but he isn't waiving his no trade to go to Cleveland according to reports. Thus, our trade with Bled, Dudley or Chandler, plus taking on Shump is the best on the table. I don't think we should have to include any of the youngsters here, and if that ends up being the case, then just walk away. Cleveland's value for Kyrie is only going to go down because he only has 2 years on his contract and they know he wants out, and the situation will not get better with him and Lebron the longer they play together.

[lilfishi22]

Everyone willing to just throw Chriss into a deal for Kyrie because he had a bad summer league baffle me. You all act like Kyrie is the 2nd coming again he is talented and is one of the best scorers of the basketball in the NBA, he is also one of the worst defenders of the basketball in the NBA and seems to have little to no care in making others around him better. I just don't see the fit with Booker it doesnt make sense. The Warriors do what they do because they all play selfless basketball and they all play D. Would I be willing to take a chance it works and trade Bled, Duds, and Miami 1st yes but thats it, and that is more than likely better than any offer they are going to get, unless they basically tell LeBron screw you and go all in on a rebuild knowing James is leaving and take back a bunch of young prospects and picks.

You have to give them something to make them accept the deal. You can't offer a downgrade at PG plus a bunch of scraps and expect them to take it.

Chriss averaged something like 17 and 7 after the all star break. In the real NBA. That compares to Kyrie at the same age. That is more than a throw-in.

Really?

[AtheJ415]

Read on Twitter

sheesh

that's fully messed up

first waiving Barbosa for no reason (no one is getting signed, and we still need to reach market value), and only guaranteeing the first year of guy who loves the Suns as much as anyone and is already receiving less than his market value with his contract. minor moves sure, but I don't like what the FO has done here.

Are you kidding? They have given themselves an extra $6 mil in cap space potentially over the next 2 years. Also, if they decline the option they could still then sign him using a variety of exceptions after going over the cap. Finally, Knight, who everyone wants to stretch, is at, guess what? 6 Mil/year if stretched.

The FO did its freaking job. It is not here to give contracts to the biggest fans of the team in the NBA. It exists to put the team in the best position going forward.