Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

TOO · Post #1641 » by **TOO** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:37 am

Avery Bradley is garbage.

AtheJ415 · Post #1642 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:39 am

Cutter wrote:kawhi doesn't have the body of work over time of being the focal point when winning at a high level to justify being worth a #1 pick. He is hugely talented but not a #1 option on a championship team. I don't think there is any substance to the #1 pick for Kawhi rumor. Even from an objective evaluation of his talent it doesn't make any sense at all. I also don't agree that he is a top 5 talent in this league. When paired in the perfect situation with an aging, but still elite, Tim Duncan and aging, but still high level, Manu Ginobli and Tony Parker then Kawhi was able to excel since the other stars were drawing all of the attention from opposing defense. Kawhi has never shown the ability to be the number focus on a team and deprived high level results.

I'm all for for going after kawhi, but trading the #1 pick for him is franchise crippling.

Disagree, but also in a vacuum the #1 pick does not typically net you the #1 option on a title team anyways. It gives you good odds of getting an All-star, but many of those guys are 2nd or 3rd options on title teams.

I am against the trade because while it will be difficult we can arrange the space to sign him next offseason and if we miss there are other max worthy guys next offseason. I thus think we should keep 1 and max somebody else or make a trade that will require fewer assets. Taking Kawhi now will surely cost us at least Jackson and a pick and I am not willing to do that for a rental. And even if we did it now, his salary would prevent us from maxing somebody else, so there is an opportunity cost there just by adding his salary this year.

AtheJ415 · Post #1643 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:44 am

Qwigglez wrote:If the Spurs decide to trade Kawhi to the Lakers for Deng/Kuzma/Ingram do you think they’d be looking to trade LMA too? They are going to lose Parker and I know he didn’t help very much this past season but they could easily start to crumble especially with aging vets.
We could give the Spurs Chriss (to pair with Murray, college buddies), the 16th pick, and the Bucks pick, along with Dudley and maybe Alan Williams.

Want to say though, pretty sure Lebron is orchestrating all this. He told Kawhi to tell his people that he wants to go to LA. This lowers Kawhi value around the league and makes no one really want to make a deal. Lebron tells Lakers front office to swing the above deal and Spurs accept. Lebron and PG sign. Might have to be for a smaller one year or two year contract before they can do some kind of max contract later.

No reason to get LMA if we have Ayton. Their games are too similar. I actually see Ayton's floor as LMA given their mid range efficiency and post ability relative to age. I prefer Ayton though due to athletic upside and he has the time to add a 3 point shot among other things (like working on D tobecome a rim protector).

Also, LMA is a bit old and I am kind of happy we aren't on his deal as good as he is. He has a ton of miles on him from entering the league young. Would prefer to gamble on Chriss's upside than add a 32 year old redundant position who costs a full max and is entering the downside of his career. I actually think Love would be a much better fit if we want the vet PF route just because he won't occupy the same space as Ayton.

thamadkant · Post #1644 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:50 am

Cutter wrote:kawhi doesn't have the body of work over time of being the focal point when winning at a high level to justify being worth a #1 pick. He is hugely talented but not a #1 option on a championship team. I don't think there is any substance to the #1 pick for Kawhi rumor. Even from an objective evaluation of his talent it doesn't make any sense at all. I also don't agree that he is a top 5 talent in this league. When paired in the perfect situation with an aging, but still elite, Tim Duncan and aging, but still high level, Manu Ginobli and Tony Parker then Kawhi was able to excel since the other stars were drawing all of the attention from opposing defense. Kawhi has never shown the ability to be the number focus on a team and deprived high level results.

I'm all for for going after kawhi, but trading the #1 pick for him is franchise crippling.

Well how long is a piece of string...

Kawhi is worth number 1 Pick for sure depending on who is available to draft.... And that's subjective.

YouTube · Post #1645 » by **Kerrsed** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:05 am

We are still feeling the burn financially of Aldridge spurning us for the Spurs (Chandlers contract). While it might have been nice to have him back in the day, he chose the Spurs over us at the last minute and caused a snowball effect on our team. From clearing the capspace for him, Sending out Marcus Morris, to pissing off Kieff, to inking Chandler to a bad deal that we are still paying for, i just honestly want nothing to do with LaMarcus. He turned into a cry baby after a year with the Spurs and had to be coddled in order for him to quit crying and want to stay. Yeah.....no thanks.

Villalobos · Post #1646 » by **Villalobos** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:20 am

Kerrsed wrote:The Spurs fans are starting to turn!

Read on Twitter

was reading a Spurs blog and saw a bunch of comments like "Trade this **** to Sacramento!"

These fans have no idea how good they've had it. Boggles my mind when I see stuff like that and like the Heat fans who were salty for years at LeBron for leaving after he won them two rings.

Hope the Spurs get scraps for Kawhi and Pop retires and they get a taste of that sweet, sweet hopelessness most fans have :lol:

thamadkant · Post #1647 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:20 am

Avery Bradley is a good defender and I think on a decent contract... Will help the Suns. So a contract similar to Lou Williams would be amazing significantly more than that and his appeal fades.

King4Day · Post #1648 » by **King4Day** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:25 am

I think McD will do his due diligence and once he learns Leonard's camp won't commit to re-sign, McD will say thanks but no thanks. And that'll be it. Many rumors around this time but hardly any ever come true.
Besides, the Spurs/Pops haven't even met with him yet. They reportedly were never informed he wants to leave.

thamadkant · Post #1649 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:28 am

The problem of sucking so long is that the team is indeed being avoided by players who want to compete.... the last 8 or so years have been so tough. Before that, Suns being mentioned and being chosen by FA star players was indeed taken for granted...

AtheJ415 · Post #1650 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:56 am

thamadkant wrote:The problem of sucking so long is that the team is indeed being avoided by players who want to compete.... the last 8 or so years have been so tough. Before that, Suns being mentioned and being chosen by FA star players was indeed taken for granted...

Who would we even want in FA this year though? i mean, I look at the list and the best fits are Capela (and that only works if you pass on Ayton), or Gordon, who is probably not going to be worth anywhere near his salary.

It impacted us in getting somebody like Aldridge probably but I think we're much better positioned for success going forward with Jackson and crew than having him and whatever middling FAs came with that.

The key is to show enough next year to get a max guy the year after where there are a few who would be great fits here. This offseason there just aren't good fits for any rebuilding team really except for those 2 and maybe Exum.

thamadkant · Post #1651 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:01 am

Im not just talking about this season, but last season and the season prior etc.

My point is... Suns were once a destination for FA Stars.... and that was due to the Long Playoff streak...
Winning team = Appealing

Hence, getting number 1 finally is like a sigh of relief.... tanking hard has given fruition. Now its time to build up and properly, as in hopefully construct a team that is bound for playoffs for the next decade or so.... just reminiscing of the days

DirtyDez · Post #1652 » by **DirtyDez** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:03 am

Next year’s FA class is really bad assuming Kawhi gets extended this year. The Suns need to be built thru the draft and trades. We aren’t the Lakers/Knicks/Heat.

Saberestar · Post #1653 » by **Saberestar** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:14 am

BobbieL wrote:
ray ray wrote:Avery Bradley is destined to be a Sun once free agent is over

Ray Ray are you hearing things or just think its obvious with the Boston connection

interesting - I think he might be solid defensively but how will he play next to Knight and Booker - that's a big question to me

It is pretty obvios to me with all that have been said that we are gonna try to sign someone like Avery Bradley.

We are looking for 3p shooting, defense and experience. And McD likes him.

asudevil · Post #1654 » by **asudevil** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:38 am

The best the Suns should hope for in a Leonard trade is to eat a bad contract while sending out and expiring, and getting an young player in the process.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using RealGM mobile app

AtheJ415 · Post #1655 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:39 am

Saberestar wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
ray ray wrote:Avery Bradley is destined to be a Sun once free agent is over

Ray Ray are you hearing things or just think its obvious with the Boston connection

interesting - I think he might be solid defensively but how will he play next to Knight and Booker - that's a big question to me

It is pretty obvios to me with all that have been said that we are gonna try to sign someone like Avery Bradley.

We are looking for 3p shooting, defense and experience. And McD likes him.

He hasn't been good at most of that stuff in over 2 years. His ORtg has been AWFUL and his DRtg has been pretty freaking bad.

AtheJ415 · Post #1656 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:51 am

DirtyDez wrote:Next year’s FA class is really bad assuming Kawhi gets extended this year. The Suns need to be built thru the draft and trades. We aren’t the Lakers/Knicks/Heat.

Wrong. Next year's class is MUCH better than this year's for a team like Phoenix. This year's may have more at the very top simply because it has Lebron and PG13, but we have no shot at those guys. Next year's class is much deeper as far as number of stars and in particular young stars.

Horford, Kyrie, Rozier, D'Angelo Russell, Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard, Kevin Love (if he declines his PO), Millsap, Klay Thompson, Jordan Bell, Bojan Bogdanovic, Myles Turner, Patrick Beverley, Tobias Harris, Marc Gasol (if he declines PO), Dragic & Whiteside (both PO), Justise Winslow, Khris Middleton, Bledsoe, Jeff Teague, Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler, KAT (RFA who will be matched), Mirotic (may be outdated since he signed something recently), Mudiay & Porzingis RFAs, Melo, Vucevic, Booker (our RFA), Aminu, Randolph, Cauley-Stein, Kawhi Leonard, Manu (though old), Delon Wright, Valanciunas, Sefolosha, Rubio, Jerebko, Gortat, Kief, Kelly Oubre.

That isn't a complete list just a list of guys who I think have at least moderate value on a general market or decent upside. For Phoenix, that is a lot of PG options, some vet PFs who could help, and some young max worthy guys to try and sign and trade for.

AtheJ415 · Post #1657 » by **AtheJ415** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:54 am

asudevil wrote:The best the Suns should hope for in a Leonard trade is to eat a bad contract while sending out and expiring, and getting an young player in the process.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using RealGM mobile app

Yeah. And I would consider it but it depends on the player. For Ingram I would eat the Deng contract. For Ball it would be a really tough call. The problem is obviously the family is a headache and a half and he can't shoot, but despite not being able to shoot he has been good. His D is much better than expected and his passing and rebounding are solid, and he might be a good fit for our team given his size. I might say no just because of the PGs available next FA class and my expectation that Portland may blow it up soon. Even though I think Kuzma was better than Ball last year, I don't see the same upside so I doubt I would take that awful Deng contract for him.

DirtyDez · Post #1658 » by **DirtyDez** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:15 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:Next year’s FA class is really bad assuming Kawhi gets extended this year. The Suns need to be built thru the draft and trades. We aren’t the Lakers/Knicks/Heat.

Wrong. Next year's class is MUCH better than this year's for a team like Phoenix. This year's may have more at the very top simply because it has Lebron and PG13, but we have no shot at those guys. Next year's class is much deeper as far as number of stars and in particular young stars.

Horford, Kyrie, Rozier, D'Angelo Russell, Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard, Kevin Love (if he declines his PO), Millsap, Klay Thompson, Jordan Bell, Bojan Bogdanovic, Myles Turner, Patrick Beverley, Tobias Harris, Marc Gasol (if he declines PO), Dragic & Whiteside (both PO), Justise Winslow, Khris Middleton, Bledsoe, Jeff Teague, Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler, KAT (RFA who will be matched), Mirotic (may be outdated since he signed something recently), Mudiay & Porzingis RFAs, Melo, Vucevic, Booker (our RFA), Aminu, Randolph, Cauley-Stein, Kawhi Leonard, Manu (though old), Delon Wright, Valanciunas, Sefolosha, Rubio, Jerebko, Gortat, Kief, Kelly Oubre.

That isn't a complete list just a list of guys who I think have at least moderate value on a general market or decent upside. For Phoenix, that is a lot of PG options, some vet PFs who could help, and some young max worthy guys to try and sign and trade for.

I really hope the Suns stay away from most those names and the guys I would want likely won’t hit the market. Unless you want to give Kemba and Conley contract...

Rozier and Russell excite me a little bit but a smart front office like the Nets letting him go would give me pause.

thamadkant · Post #1659 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:39 am

76ers would be very keen on Ingram as well...

Suns need him badly IMO... the forward next to Jackson and Booker... he's inbetween Chriss and Bender height wise and longer than Chriss wingspan wise... better than both combined

Puff · Post #1660 » by **Puff** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:59 am

Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
TOO wrote:
**** that.

:nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono:

Yeah, that would be crazy unless they had a clean physical and had an agreed upon extension with him. That way they could extend him and Book.

But I'd still rather just take Ayton. And I'm sure McD probably would too.

If we traded the #1 pick for him and then lost him in FA next year it would be one of the more brutal blows in Suns history, and we've had some brutal ones.

You’d rather have Ayton than a fully contract extended and medically checked out Kawhi Leonard who is still only 26?

Yes and quite frankly any of the first 5 picks in this draft, for this team.