The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[lilfishi22]

Towns is eligible for the 188 mil Supermax after making third team according to Gambo and that may be why Minnesota would trade him.

Do we want to pay Towns $188M when he only made the third team? Clearly him and Thibodeau don't get along. Perhaps this is more about his attitude.

Sure I'd pay Towns that; it's the going rate for an All NBA guy. Thibs is an **** so while I can't say for sure I tend to side with Towns in that spat.

lol at 22 and *only* making Third Team All-NBA

yeah OK

[8on]

Is Triple J the safest pick in the draft? Would anyone do 1 for 3 and Prince?

[lilfishi22]

Hmmm.....so a former 16 year NBA Veteran, World Champion. Former NBA head coach and current head coach of the University of Alabam, Avery Johnson said Ayton is David Robinson with a jumper per Burns and Gambo.

What does Avery know? He only played 9 seasons with David Robinson and watched Ayton live once against his team...... must be like Ayton’s coach trying to get Ayton drafted and make himself look good. Wouldn’t trust what he says, because he sounds just like Ayton’s former coach and Jay Williams and Charles Barkley and Jay Bilas...those guys know nothing.

I wonder how much research these guys have actually done on Doncic. Euroleague and ACB isn't exactly widely broadcast here America while college basketball is one of the most broadcast and widely watched sporting events. Not saying these guys know nothing or that their opinions aren't valid but guaranteed guys like Barkley does the absolute minimum when it comes to research draft prospects.

[lilfishi22]

For those who think putting out a lineup with 3 wings, please recall how bad the Nash/JRich/Hedo/Warrick/Frye(Rlo) lineup was and reconsider your position.

Wings who can shoot, pass, drive and create are what's moving offenses nowadays. Nash was also a ball dominant PG who played in a system where he was the primary creator. If things didn't work, that's when guys like Hedo would try and create a shot. It's different personal in a different system that heavily relied on *one* guy who run that system. In a 3 win line up, you have 3 guys who are comfortable playing off the ball, all who can shoot (minus JJ right now) and then you'd have a Bender who can also shoot in that lineup. I would be very comfortable with a lineup of Booker/JJ/Doncic

[lilfishi22]

For those who think putting out a lineup with 3 wings, please recall how bad the Nash/JRich/Hedo/Warrick/Frye(Rlo) lineup was and reconsider your position.

For those who think putting out a lineup with 3 wings, please recall how amazing the Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Durant/Green lineup is and solidify your opinion.

It's all about personnel.

Yea and booker, JJ, and Doncic would be a nightmare defensively next year

It's going to be a nightmare defensively unless we drafted a guy like JJJ or maybe Bamba

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Do we want to pay Towns $188M when he only made the third team? Clearly him and Thibodeau don't get along. Perhaps this is more about his attitude.

Sure I'd pay Towns that; it's the going rate for an All NBA guy. Thibs is an **** so while I can't say for sure I tend to side with Towns in that spat.

lol at 22 and *only* making Third Team All-NBA

yeah OK

I'm sorry, isn't Towns a "center"? Isn't he in fact a terrible defender (as opposed to projected to be)?

What are we talking about here, again?

[lilfishi22]

Is Triple J the safest pick in the draft? Would anyone do 1 for 3 and Prince?

What is your criteria for a safe pick? IMO a safe pick is looking at what the player is if their best skill/ability doesn't translate.

I still think Doncic is up there. If the best thing that he does, doesn't work, then what is he? If his offense initiation from the perimeter doesn't pan out, he's still going to be a solid spot up shooter, a great passer (without being the point of offense) and running the ball in transition, he's still a damn solid player. With Ayton, I think his best quality is his mid range shooting because it opens up his game so much but if he's unable to hit that in the NBA, he'll still be a Dwight Howard type rebounder and high FG% scorer. With JJJ, I think his best skill is his perimeter defense, if that doesn't translate at the NBA level, he's should still be a weakside shot blocker and perhaps a good rim protector.

[oddity]

My problem with Ayton is that he's a center. We don't even know if it's possible to win a championship anymore with a center taking up a massive portion of your cap. I think he has to become like Anthony Davis for it to be possible.

With Doncic, well, he doesn't really look "passable" or average athletically for the NBA (like Klay or Harden's level). He may get to that level, or near it, or he may not. But right now it doesn't look like he's going to be taking opponents off the dribble, since he doesn't handle the ball at an absolutely elite level (Curry, Irving, Paul etc - all of whom are not the fastest guys on the court).

I think Luka is a better athlete than Klay. He's certainly quicker with the ball than Klay. I think that in a few years his shot will gravitate towards the 40%, with a beautiful stroke and more open shots for him to capitalize on. His height is a huge factor in shooting over guys, and the elevation on his jumpshot reminds me of how Booker shoots. And about handling the ball at an elite level! Booker did it coming into the league with a worse handle than Luka. At one point during his mid rookie season breakout he was in the 90-somethingth percentile in pick and roll handling lobbing to Len and Chandler. His shot translated, and I think Luka's can too. And Luka is clearly much better at orchestrating and passing out of a pick and roll, with far more experience doing it about every play at an extremely competitive level and all sorts of defenses in RMD. I think the kid will be fine.

[lilfishi22]

Sure I'd pay Towns that; it's the going rate for an All NBA guy. Thibs is an **** so while I can't say for sure I tend to side with Towns in that spat.

lol at 22 and *only* making Third Team All-NBA

yeah OK

I'm sorry, isn't Towns a "center"? Isn't he in fact a terrible defender (as opposed to projected to be)?

What are we talking about here, again?

I don't like the idea of trying to win with a KAT/dominant big with poor defense but if we're OK with trying to win with Ayton then I'll take 22 and already All-NBA level big over Ayton.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Is Triple J the safest pick in the draft? Would anyone do 1 for 3 and Prince?

(is strongly considering)

[TheLogician]

Ayton is going to surprise a lot of you when his defense is better than advertised. The system and coaching will cut down on a lot of the guessing and simple mistakes. He will learn to use his body and elite physical gifts with more experience. It will be exciting watching him grow into a two-way beast in a Suns uniform. I fully expect him to become our 1(b) offensive weapon and defensive anchor. It won't happen right away but it will be worth the wait.

Watch on YouTube

[8on]

Is Triple J the safest pick in the draft? Would anyone do 1 for 3 and Prince?

What is your criteria for a safe pick? IMO a safe pick is looking at what the player is if their best skill/ability doesn't translate.

I still think Doncic is up there. If the best thing that he does, doesn't work, then what is he? If his offense initiation from the perimeter doesn't pan out, he's still going to be a solid spot up shooter, a great passer (without being the point of offense) and running the ball in transition, he's still a damn solid player. With Ayton, I think his best quality is his mid range shooting because it opens up his game so much but if he's unable to hit that in the NBA, he'll still be a Dwight Howard type rebounder and high FG% scorer. With JJJ, I think his best skill is his perimeter defense, if that doesn't translate at the NBA level, he's should still be a weakside shot blocker and perhaps a good rim protector.

A safe pick is someone I don’t think will fail to meet our expectations.

3 and Prince might be better than Doncic or Ayton.

I still prefer Ayton, but I would have absolutely no problem with Jackson and Prince. None at all.

[JDJ26]

Ayton is going to surprise a lot of you when his defense is better than advertised. The system and coaching will cut down on a lot of the guessing and simple mistakes. He will learn to use his body and elite physical gifts with more experience. It will be exciting watching him grow into a two-way beast in a Suns uniform. I fully expect him to become our 1(b) offensive weapon and defensive anchor. It won't happen right away but it will be worth the wait.

Watch on YouTube

If Igor is a good coach I expect improvement with Chriss and Bender. An Ayton and Improved Chriss/Bender frontcourt could be potent.

[lilfishi22]

Is Triple J the safest pick in the draft? Would anyone do 1 for 3 and Prince?

What is your criteria for a safe pick? IMO a safe pick is looking at what the player is if their best skill/ability doesn't translate.

I still think Doncic is up there. If the best thing that he does, doesn't work, then what is he? If his offense initiation from the perimeter doesn't pan out, he's still going to be a solid spot up shooter, a great passer (without being the point of offense) and running the ball in transition, he's still a damn solid player. With Ayton, I think his best quality is his mid range shooting because it opens up his game so much but if he's unable to hit that in the NBA, he'll still be a Dwight Howard type rebounder and high FG% scorer. With JJJ, I think his best skill is his perimeter defense, if that doesn't translate at the NBA level, he's should still be a weakside shot blocker and perhaps a good rim protector.

A safe pick is someone I don’t think will fail to meet our expectations.

3 and Prince might be better than Doncic or Ayton.

I still prefer Ayton, but I would have absolutely no problem with Jackson and Prince. None at all.

Fair enough. I like JJJr and Prince but not enough to move down from #1

[bigfoot]

With that said Robinson did have a devastating baseline jumper too. He's my favorite player of all time next to Charles and all my old posters of him have him with that jump pose... Along with his double handed cocked back dunks.


Robinson's biggest advantage over Ayton is shot blocking and steals ability... With a broken back Admiral was still amongst the leagues elite back in 1999 to 2003

And still couldn't win a championship until he got Timmy

Your not picking because of your Biased against big men.

Robinson's talent around him led to Sean Elliot being his best side kick.

And he usually lost to Suns with better talent and The Rockets with Hakeem the dream and his better cast.... And both of those teams best players were BIG men in a sense and better talent.



So again.. Having a small versatile team doesn't mean they will win.

Ayton is as talented as Doncic if not his ceiling is even higher....



Talent wins out at the end... Big or small..

You cannot win with a single source of talent... You need 3 all stars... Always has been since the 80s with the Celtics and Lakers.

Yes I agree we need three stars. We have one star, Booker. Jackson and Ayton are both question marks, shooting and defense, respectively. I feel much more comfortable Doncic is a star and will contribute next season to more wins while it could take two years before Ayton is might be a star. Booker is in his fourth year after all. Then if we can get one in free agency by moving some of these draft picks we accumulated or Jackson pans out. We have our three stars.

[SuperSunsFan]

For those who said it is easy for Euro player to adjust playing in the NBA, Childress unlearned everything about how to play in the NBA just by spending two years there. There are so many question marks about Doncic's game and quickness that many cards have to be falling into place for him to be the player his supporters anticipate he would become. For Ayton everything is simple, if he can improve his defense to a an acceptable level he would easily be an all star. For Ayton's detractors who argue that Ayton could easily be the next anthony Bennett or Oden or Okafor, Doncic can just as easily turn out to be Marko Milic, marko jaric, Rudy Fernandez, belinelli, Delfino or even Casey Jacobsen. Someone should go ask Casey how his lack of foot speed limited his potential to become a good NBA player.

[JMac1]

Hmmm.....so a former 16 year NBA Veteran, World Champion. Former NBA head coach and current head coach of the University of Alabam, Avery Johnson said Ayton is David Robinson with a jumper per Burns and Gambo.

What does Avery know? He only played 9 seasons with David Robinson and watched Ayton live once against his team...... must be like Ayton’s coach trying to get Ayton drafted and make himself look good. Wouldn’t trust what he says, because he sounds just like Ayton’s former coach and Jay Williams and Charles Barkley and Jay Bilas...those guys know nothing.

I wonder how much research these guys have actually done on Doncic. Euroleague and ACB isn't exactly widely broadcast here America while college basketball is one of the most broadcast and widely watched sporting events. Not saying these guys know nothing or that their opinions aren't valid but guaranteed guys like Barkley does the absolute minimum when it comes to research draft prospects.

It ain’t about Doncic, it’s about Ayton.

[JMac1]

For those who think putting out a lineup with 3 wings, please recall how bad the Nash/JRich/Hedo/Warrick/Frye(Rlo) lineup was and reconsider your position.

For those who think putting out a lineup with 3 wings, please recall how amazing the Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Durant/Green lineup is and solidify your opinion.

It's all about personnel.

And that’s a once in a two lifetime personnel. Good luck trying to find that again.

[timetoshinebaby]

For those who said it is easy for Euro player to adjust playing in the NBA, Childress unlearned everything about how to play in the NBA just by spending two years there. There are so many question marks about Doncic's game and quickness that many cards have to be falling into place for him to be the player his supporters anticipate he would become. For Ayton everything is simple, if he can improve his defense to a an acceptable level he would easily be an all star. For Ayton's detractors who argue that Ayton could easily be the next anthony Bennett or Oden or Okafor, Doncic can just as easily turn out to be Marko Milic, marko jaric, Rudy Fernandez, belinelli, Delfino or even Casey Jacobsen. Someone should go ask Casey how his lack of foot speed limited his potential to become a good NBA player.

My big concern with his athletic ability is not his ability to play but his ability to play PG against smaller more athletic opponents and not get blown away. I think there is huge risk that he might not be suitable to play PG in the NBA. This is something that is a big risk for the Suns as they already have Booker and Jackson. There is far less risk for one of the other teams that don't have a Booker or Jackson where Doncic can find his spot rather than be forced into a spot.

I want the trade up for him but I think you take him as the second option as there is more risk that is more relevant to the Suns.

[JMac1]

Read on Twitter

He was my #1 in that draft and I was high on McCollum too. Len ... what a waste of a five pick. Still makes me leery of moving Chriss and Bender unless it is a package for a star player.

This entire board wanted him!!!