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2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1641 » by mkot » Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:23 am

thamadkant wrote:So for those who are smart enough to not put up with garbage from a franchise, who are you guys supporting while Suns go through hell for the next several years?

Personally, I want Wemby to set records but ultimately hope Nuggets or Thunder or Rockets get better quick to ensure Lakers don't win another ring in that timeframe. Basically, any team that can prevent Lakers winning I will be rooting for.


I'm rooting for Denver because I'm a Jokić fan. I have certain type, I love table setter with high BBIQ who doesn't necessary do foul baiting and flashy stuff like LeBron and Luka do but are steady engine on the court, like Nash and Diaw are my all-time favorite player. However the Nuggets are going in without a legit coach and the Clips has Tyron Lue and Jeff VanGundy so I think they are doomed.

I like the Rockets because I like the makeup of that team. I like some of their core pieces minus Jabari Smith Jr. and Jalen Green. Jabari is a good player but I think he is a little soft and Green is low IQ and inefficient. That said, I think their opponent is going to be GSW and if so they probably will flame out and that would be due to the lack of offensive fire power, which is good for us. If it's the Grizzlies tho they should be able to advance, both teams play with alot of intensity but Houston has more talent.

Definitely rooting for the Wolves and it's mostly about the Fakers. I used to like the Wolves a lot but since the KAT trade the chemistry, the culture and vibe are off on that team. Randle is one of my least favourite player and I hate Gobert even more now. So this is tough lol My heart says Wolves in 6 but my brain says Lakers in 6. If Finch continues to play Gobert with Reid or Randle together, Luka will hunt and cook their bigs all game long and this will be a short series. McDaniels is one of the best perimeter defender in the league but he is 1) too foul prone and 2) not strong enough against a big wing/guard in Luka. NAW is too small/skinny and DDV actually isn't that good of a 1v1 defender and he gambles too much. ANT man is the only guy who has the size and strength to guard Luka, but this doesn't look like a series for Mike Conley so their offense will be on the shoulder of Edwards too. I think that's too much to ask from ANT man. And we haven't talk about LeBron and Austin Reaves who's been brilliant playing off two future HOF. Randle had never played decent in the playoffs so I think for the WOlves to have a chance, Gobert needs to dominate his matchup against Jackson Hayes.

Will be interesting to see how OKC does this time. OKC plays with a lot of intensity in the regular season that wins them a lot of games, but in the playoffs the intensity will be just as high from everyone so that advantage is gone (same goes to the Grizzlies and Rockets). I wouldn't be surprise if they beat whoever the 8th seed is in 6 games instead of 4 or 5.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1642 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Apr 15, 2025 3:20 pm

sunsbum wrote:2 championship coaches:lol:


So if so many coaches couldn't make this team a contender, even with 2 coaches with a proven championship pedigree, doesn't that indicate a much bigger issue being the front office decision-makers still in place and also the roster construction? :dontknow:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1643 » by Fo-Real » Tue Apr 15, 2025 3:52 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
sunsbum wrote:2 championship coaches:lol:


So if so many coaches couldn't make this team a contender, even with 2 coaches with a proven championship pedigree, doesn't that indicate a much bigger issue being the front office decision-makers still in place and also the roster construction? :dontknow:


Its also funny that we can say that two high esteem coaches couldn't win here but in the same sense neither were esteemed enough to keep the jobs where they won championships. Why fire a championship coach? Those two teams have to be nuts right?
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1644 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:04 pm

Fo-Real wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
sunsbum wrote:2 championship coaches:lol:


So if so many coaches couldn't make this team a contender, even with 2 coaches with a proven championship pedigree, doesn't that indicate a much bigger issue being the front office decision-makers still in place and also the roster construction? :dontknow:


Its also funny that we can say that two high esteem coaches couldn't win here but in the same sense neither were esteemed enough to keep the jobs where they won championships. Why fire a championship coach? Those two teams have to be nuts right?


Obviously, it speaks more to the disturbing trend in the NBA today based around an "instant gratification" desire/ expectation. And a "what have you done for me lately! culture. Now, of course, rosteer fit and coach/players fit is paramount consideeration! But whose job is it to make that happen and actually construct the proper pieces conducive for success? The coach or the front office and ownership? I'd see such hasty or rash decisions being more of an indictment of an inept front office than of the coach man. :dontknow:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1645 » by Calvin Klein » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:18 pm

sunskerr wrote:
sunsbum wrote:
ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Frank poked the bear. He should know better.
Frank with the longest rant I’ve ever seen then GoK triples down with the novel. i love it!!


And here comes frank with the steel chair!!

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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Crazy thing is that triple PG experiment was way younger than our mid three.

I do think that team sort of confirmed the year before was a fluke and we were ultimately a treadmill squad. The roster really wasn't that great outside of Goran who maybe couldve been a 2nd option in those prime years at best.

Sucks how it turned out. I don't think signing IT2 was the worst move (hey he was a free 20 ppg trade asset, can't argue with that) but how we handled it obviously was. Didn't get very much in return for any of our PGs when they started asking out.


It's actually a very good team to look back on when you think about the current roster. The 2014 team had clear roles. Then they got greedy with IT and everything went to **** because nobody was happy with their role. They had 3 PG who wanted starter minutes. Didn't work out and everybody was upset.

So even if they got IT for cheap, it wasn't a good move because it alienated everyone.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1646 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:23 pm

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1647 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:25 pm

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1648 » by BobbieL » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:30 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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You beat me to it GOK!

But around 3:20 starts talking Durant and why Butler was needed. It was for the locker room. Stephen A let Booker off the hook and only blamed Durant. But I think Booker and Durant are similar - they are just about "hooping" per Stephen A. And I thought the same thing, they like to hoop, no doubt. But where does Winning rank on the scale. No team with Booker and Durant should be this bad.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1649 » by BobbieL » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:32 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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Here it comes - the Ishbia special

Durant to Houston or another teams
Those players/picks to the Pelicans
Zion to the Suns and Ishbia will add more draft picks
handsome salary
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1650 » by handsome salary » Tue Apr 15, 2025 4:36 pm

Now the talk is how the Suns will work with Durant so he can go where he wants. The few teams involved in that conversation are going to sit back and go "You're asking too much. Here's what little we'll give you. Take it or leave it."
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1651 » by BobbieL » Tue Apr 15, 2025 5:27 pm

handsome salary wrote:Now the talk is how the Suns will work with Durant so he can go where he wants. The few teams involved in that conversation are going to sit back and go "You're asking too much. Here's what little we'll give you. Take it or leave it."


Booker signing an extension
Durant getting maybe a FRP and a top 8 player

32 win season incoming
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1652 » by Calvin Klein » Tue Apr 15, 2025 5:32 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
So if so many coaches couldn't make this team a contender, even with 2 coaches with a proven championship pedigree, doesn't that indicate a much bigger issue being the front office decision-makers still in place and also the roster construction? :dontknow:


Its also funny that we can say that two high esteem coaches couldn't win here but in the same sense neither were esteemed enough to keep the jobs where they won championships. Why fire a championship coach? Those two teams have to be nuts right?


Obviously, it speaks more to the disturbing trend in the NBA today based around an "instant gratification" desire/ expectation. And a "what have you done for me lately! culture. Now, of course, rosteer fit and coach/players fit is paramount consideeration! But whose job is it to make that happen and actually construct the proper pieces conducive for success? The coach or the front office and ownership? I'd see such hasty or rash decisions being more of an indictment of an inept front office than of the coach man. :dontknow:


Every single coach has been fired at some point, except 2 or 3. People put too much blame on coaches. They all have seasons were they are considered the best and then, if the situation chances, are considered the worst. It's all about fit and having a proper roster. Coaches can't do magic.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1653 » by Slim Charless » Tue Apr 15, 2025 5:40 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Ghost , you need a post and word limit. My gawd. You love a long winded argument and are never wrong. Two great qualities. Eh? The length you go defending ‘your magical cap space plan, is disturbing. Even when you timidly take it to the big board, people shy away from engagement just from the insane volume. Fccck, you can’t even acknowledge that the front office has pretty clearly stated a different path, yet you incessantly blow your whimsical whistle with far fetched blow it up 5 sided trades, second round sleepers and this ‘boy you just wait till 27-28 when we sign our franchise saving free agents’. Like that will somehow will launch us into contention? Yup, everyone is stupid that doesn’t see the wisdom in gutting this team for draft picks and cap space. Because ohhh there is a crime for being middle ranked team next yr with Booker. And he needs to go now because his value is peaking? Barring injury, Book isn’t going to lose any value anytime soon. And there was a time when people wanted to play with him.

Shttt, all I have proposed is stretching Beal to get and stay under the second apron, giving Phnx a lot more flexibility. And a measly 19 million ticked off in cap space ….3 yrs from now when the cap amount will have increased by more than that amount. Keep in mind, your wonder plan clips Phnx for 50 mill in 25/26 and 26/27…… so you can load up on your second rounders and minimum one yr deals for the next two yrs. Oh but wait, may be we can trade Beal because he will be a massive expiring. Why even keep Beal if you are booting Book out the door?

I don’t care so much as what they do. But I think I can see their path or at least one that follows all that they have said so far. It’s just a shame that 3 or 4 fn know it all’s have hijacked these threads with the same old spew over and over and can do nothing but eye poke and demean alternative thoughts, even when they parallel what has been outlined in the media.

The way I see, I’m done commenting on your maniacal input here. There is no point. You are a fn genius GM. Gawd, you have even taken possession of this team with your ‘I’ would do this and ‘I’ would do that rhetoric.

This site is a reflection of this season. This might be an abrasive response to your bomb of red letter rebuttals… but Christ, just give it rest. Stretching Beal is no where near the top of problems with this organization.
I’m outta here


Lol! You're last post that I responded to was longer than my supposed bomb of red letters, man! And I've never told anyone or claimed to be "never wrong." Just like everyone else here, I share my opinions and perspectives on our various situations, which I'm obviously passionate about. And yes, I defend my views as I see them just like anyone else is free to do also! And what you sarcastically point out with your usual veiled barbs and clever backhanded compliments as "two great qualities" is your perogative! Are those considered "great qualities" in the interest of open dialogue on a discussion board, man?

I defend what I believe to be true and accurate, but when/if someone can actually present a legitimate counterpoint to my perspective, I am willing to consider it. Absent that, I stand by my convictions. Now, could I be wrong about my views? absolutely! And obviously, I'm wrong about as much as I'm right.. But so far, the very obvious evidence points to the contrary on this premise. And a consensus perspective or hive mentality is not required towards objective assessments, man. Also, there's nothing magical about my plan for utilizing cap space, as every team actually chooses to do this at some point each season with respect to their individual situation.

And LOL at the timidly take it to the trade board comment on the trade board as all you have to do is look and you'll see that I have no issues with sharing my opinion there if I find an example that is highly oppositional to our teams' best interests. By the way, how many of your ideas or views have you shared on there in equity man? I'm only asking because I don't think I've ever seen you post on there, if maybe more than once? But then again, I could be wrong!...................... See, I can only admit that possibility without too much emotional duress! Maybe you've missed it or just haven't been paying attention much. But I've acknowledged the front office as having a clearly stated different path, and then stated how idiotic, delusional, shortsighted, and counterproductive to our long-term viability/ sustainability it is!

And as for my trades, whether or not people see them as "far-fetched" or whimsical is completely subjective. Also, my trades are only as complex as our very restrictive situation dictates. But I'll ask again, If you happen to have any semblance of a legitimately more simplified solution that can fix things, or at least put us on a more beneficial path, then please feel free to offer it. And maybe you still can't fully comprehend the measure we're restricted by yet, but absent actual trade assets, the ability to aggregate 1st round picks, or even a balanced roster financially, 2nd round picks become a critical conduit for cost-effective depth acquisition under the 2nd apron. And having up to two max salary slots available in the summer of 27' or even massive cap space to sign multiple higher tier free agents for legitimate depth will expedite our competitive resurgence much faster
than carrying 24-25 million in dead cap restricting our flexibility for thee next half decade while only beeeing ableee to add maybe 1 mediocre midlevel option and a bunch of vet mins again. Because clearly, filling out our bench majority with vet-min retreads has really paid off for us over the past couple of seasons.

And LOL at gutting our team for draft picks and cap space! Obviously, we'd be getting players back in the deal, and sorry if you still don't recognize the value of having draft picks man. Either as premium currency in trades or as a legit mechanism to add cost-controlled positional depth pieces/ trade assets/ core pieces to balance out our very top-heavy roster. Because we've been so very successful without having picks or young players .....right?? And you actually believe that we'd somehow miraculously become a midranked team next year when even with having BOTH KD and Booker, we can't even make the play in!! We'd be giving up an elite talent in KD, almost 27 points a game, and a player that offers elite lateral gravity to get Booker open, but somehow we get much more competitive even with less talent, scoring/ production. And no elite player to pull doubleee and triple teams off Booker. Do you remember how well he handled those double and triple teams, man?

But adding a mid-level option and more vet mins should be the solution .........right?? And yes, Booker's value will absolutely depreciate the more he ages, the closer he gets to the wrong side of 30. Also, as his 8% contractual increases hit too, that'll also offset his value going forward unless he somehow gets much better as he gets older. But again, I might be wrong! Just show me any legitimate examples of NBA players who have gotten better with age around 30 years old or older and increased their trade value. Any players' bookers' age or older??? This shouldn't be at all controversial man. This is basic depreciation! All players are subject to it! That's why the saying.... "Father time is undefeated" is so prevalent.

And you do understand that we can't even stretch Beal unless he 1st agrees to a 15% buyout reduction (= $17-18 million) just to make it legal to stretch him under the conditions of this CBA. Do you really think he'll just agree to give that money away so we can dump him? And even after that, IF he somehow miraculously agrees to do that (which makes absolutely no sense in his situation), we'd still be on the hook for $25 million dead cap that'll restrict us for the next 5-6 years anyways. This would mean that if we don't also trade KD, and with Bookers' 8% escalators each of the next two seasons, W'd still be very limited and could maybe have the MLE and vet mins and then end up right back at/over the 2nd apron again. But now we're also carrying Beals' 25 million on our books for the next half-decade!

And if that MLE player and those vet min signings don't drastically improve our trajectory, then we'll have just screwed ourselves further for what exactly?? And so what if we have Beals'50 million salary on our books for the next two seasons. He'd offer more production and gravity by a wide margin than any MLE and vet min options you're puzzlingly championing, anchoring ourselves with $25 million cap hit for the next 5-6 years for man! And my "wonder plan actually allows for the opposite of what you're claiming because in trading Booker, too, we'd actually be getting elite young core talent, vet players (for salary matching) and high picks (lottery), obviously not 2nd rounders and vet mins! Unless you somehow think that'd be Booker's trade value? We'd have massive cap space, draft picks, elite young talent, and a bunch of veteran options. So I'm not sure where you come up with loading up on vet mins and 2nd rounders??

And yes! It'd be much easier to trade Beal as an expiring for the reasons that I've already mentioned (IF he even would choose to stay). Also, yes!! A massive $57 million expiring would be a very desirable trade asset with this current CBA and how punitive the 2nd apron is! Or for teams already in the 2nd apron with disgruntled stars that might not want to stay on those teams, or teams that want to pivot and rebuild and are looking to get out from under long-term money! One such perfect example that comes to mind is Lauri Markannen in Utah! or really also taking back multiple smaller long-term contracts in exchange for getting other key pieces- maybe a Jerami Grant? Or perhaps a Jamal Murray or Aaron Gordon+ pivot? But again, IF trading Booker and KD, then obviously Beal wouldn't even want to stay for a rebuild! So, he'd agree to a trade and waive his NTC.

And it's funny you claim to not care what they do, but then fairly aggressively attack any differing perspectives man! And you "think" you can see their path, or at least one that follows what they've said? And this somehow makes sense to you how exactly? because their decisions and strategies have been so great and successful and yielded such great results!! And honestly, man, how is that any different than what you're doing with your veiled barbs, backhanded comments, and constant chiding of ideas that are different than yours or the front office?? Kind of hypocritical to accuse others of doing the very thing you're doing consistently just because some of us don't choose to follow "lock step" to the front offices' egregiously bad decisions that put us in this very situation to begin with!

Lastly, that's cool if you're done responding to my posts, man! Hopefully, doing so will save you much frustration and emotional trauma. And my posts are only so long and detailed out of respect to give your replies the level of investment/effort I feel they deserve. If I didn't still respect you, I would just answer in kind with sarcastic one-liners or short responses. But I guess we all have our roles here...huh?....LOL. Apparently, to you, mine is a maniacal antagonist. But is doesn't take an FN' genius GM or genius in general to look at our situation and understand that continuing to do the same thing over and over again despite repeated failures is a very bad plan or "path" to pursue! And how else would you prefer I share my perspectives than by using "I" would do this and "I" would do that rhetoric? Would it be more palatable to you if I just used a 3rd person rhetoric? Should I impose to say other people would/should do this as if to speak on the behalf of others?

All this being said, you're right that stretching Beal is not the top of our problems! Let's see how things play out and if that actually happens this summer. At the very least, it's going to be very interesting to see how the front offices' plan you're championing (to a degree) plays out for our future! :D


Bumping this to annoy Frank and say I'm Team GoK.
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1654 » by SunsRback4Good » Tue Apr 15, 2025 10:09 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Ghost , you need a post and word limit. My gawd. You love a long winded argument and are never wrong. Two great qualities. Eh? The length you go defending ‘your magical cap space plan, is disturbing. Even when you timidly take it to the big board, people shy away from engagement just from the insane volume. Fccck, you can’t even acknowledge that the front office has pretty clearly stated a different path, yet you incessantly blow your whimsical whistle with far fetched blow it up 5 sided trades, second round sleepers and this ‘boy you just wait till 27-28 when we sign our franchise saving free agents’. Like that will somehow will launch us into contention? Yup, everyone is stupid that doesn’t see the wisdom in gutting this team for draft picks and cap space. Because ohhh there is a crime for being middle ranked team next yr with Booker. And he needs to go now because his value is peaking? Barring injury, Book isn’t going to lose any value anytime soon. And there was a time when people wanted to play with him.

Shttt, all I have proposed is stretching Beal to get and stay under the second apron, giving Phnx a lot more flexibility. And a measly 19 million ticked off in cap space ….3 yrs from now when the cap amount will have increased by more than that amount. Keep in mind, your wonder plan clips Phnx for 50 mill in 25/26 and 26/27…… so you can load up on your second rounders and minimum one yr deals for the next two yrs. Oh but wait, may be we can trade Beal because he will be a massive expiring. Why even keep Beal if you are booting Book out the door?

I don’t care so much as what they do. But I think I can see their path or at least one that follows all that they have said so far. It’s just a shame that 3 or 4 fn know it all’s have hijacked these threads with the same old spew over and over and can do nothing but eye poke and demean alternative thoughts, even when they parallel what has been outlined in the media.

The way I see, I’m done commenting on your maniacal input here. There is no point. You are a fn genius GM. Gawd, you have even taken possession of this team with your ‘I’ would do this and ‘I’ would do that rhetoric.

This site is a reflection of this season. This might be an abrasive response to your bomb of red letter rebuttals… but Christ, just give it rest. Stretching Beal is no where near the top of problems with this organization.
I’m outta here


Lol! You're last post that I responded to was longer than my supposed bomb of red letters, man! And I've never told anyone or claimed to be "never wrong." Just like everyone else here, I share my opinions and perspectives on our various situations, which I'm obviously passionate about. And yes, I defend my views as I see them just like anyone else is free to do also! And what you sarcastically point out with your usual veiled barbs and clever backhanded compliments as "two great qualities" is your perogative! Are those considered "great qualities" in the interest of open dialogue on a discussion board, man?

I defend what I believe to be true and accurate, but when/if someone can actually present a legitimate counterpoint to my perspective, I am willing to consider it. Absent that, I stand by my convictions. Now, could I be wrong about my views? absolutely! And obviously, I'm wrong about as much as I'm right.. But so far, the very obvious evidence points to the contrary on this premise. And a consensus perspective or hive mentality is not required towards objective assessments, man. Also, there's nothing magical about my plan for utilizing cap space, as every team actually chooses to do this at some point each season with respect to their individual situation.

And LOL at the timidly take it to the trade board comment on the trade board as all you have to do is look and you'll see that I have no issues with sharing my opinion there if I find an example that is highly oppositional to our teams' best interests. By the way, how many of your ideas or views have you shared on there in equity man? I'm only asking because I don't think I've ever seen you post on there, if maybe more than once? But then again, I could be wrong!...................... See, I can only admit that possibility without too much emotional duress! Maybe you've missed it or just haven't been paying attention much. But I've acknowledged the front office as having a clearly stated different path, and then stated how idiotic, delusional, shortsighted, and counterproductive to our long-term viability/ sustainability it is!

And as for my trades, whether or not people see them as "far-fetched" or whimsical is completely subjective. Also, my trades are only as complex as our very restrictive situation dictates. But I'll ask again, If you happen to have any semblance of a legitimately more simplified solution that can fix things, or at least put us on a more beneficial path, then please feel free to offer it. And maybe you still can't fully comprehend the measure we're restricted by yet, but absent actual trade assets, the ability to aggregate 1st round picks, or even a balanced roster financially, 2nd round picks become a critical conduit for cost-effective depth acquisition under the 2nd apron. And having up to two max salary slots available in the summer of 27' or even massive cap space to sign multiple higher tier free agents for legitimate depth will expedite our competitive resurgence much faster
than carrying 24-25 million in dead cap restricting our flexibility for thee next half decade while only beeeing ableee to add maybe 1 mediocre midlevel option and a bunch of vet mins again. Because clearly, filling out our bench majority with vet-min retreads has really paid off for us over the past couple of seasons.

And LOL at gutting our team for draft picks and cap space! Obviously, we'd be getting players back in the deal, and sorry if you still don't recognize the value of having draft picks man. Either as premium currency in trades or as a legit mechanism to add cost-controlled positional depth pieces/ trade assets/ core pieces to balance out our very top-heavy roster. Because we've been so very successful without having picks or young players .....right?? And you actually believe that we'd somehow miraculously become a midranked team next year when even with having BOTH KD and Booker, we can't even make the play in!! We'd be giving up an elite talent in KD, almost 27 points a game, and a player that offers elite lateral gravity to get Booker open, but somehow we get much more competitive even with less talent, scoring/ production. And no elite player to pull doubleee and triple teams off Booker. Do you remember how well he handled those double and triple teams, man?

But adding a mid-level option and more vet mins should be the solution .........right?? And yes, Booker's value will absolutely depreciate the more he ages, the closer he gets to the wrong side of 30. Also, as his 8% contractual increases hit too, that'll also offset his value going forward unless he somehow gets much better as he gets older. But again, I might be wrong! Just show me any legitimate examples of NBA players who have gotten better with age around 30 years old or older and increased their trade value. Any players' bookers' age or older??? This shouldn't be at all controversial man. This is basic depreciation! All players are subject to it! That's why the saying.... "Father time is undefeated" is so prevalent.

And you do understand that we can't even stretch Beal unless he 1st agrees to a 15% buyout reduction (= $17-18 million) just to make it legal to stretch him under the conditions of this CBA. Do you really think he'll just agree to give that money away so we can dump him? And even after that, IF he somehow miraculously agrees to do that (which makes absolutely no sense in his situation), we'd still be on the hook for $25 million dead cap that'll restrict us for the next 5-6 years anyways. This would mean that if we don't also trade KD, and with Bookers' 8% escalators each of the next two seasons, W'd still be very limited and could maybe have the MLE and vet mins and then end up right back at/over the 2nd apron again. But now we're also carrying Beals' 25 million on our books for the next half-decade!

And if that MLE player and those vet min signings don't drastically improve our trajectory, then we'll have just screwed ourselves further for what exactly?? And so what if we have Beals'50 million salary on our books for the next two seasons. He'd offer more production and gravity by a wide margin than any MLE and vet min options you're puzzlingly championing, anchoring ourselves with $25 million cap hit for the next 5-6 years for man! And my "wonder plan actually allows for the opposite of what you're claiming because in trading Booker, too, we'd actually be getting elite young core talent, vet players (for salary matching) and high picks (lottery), obviously not 2nd rounders and vet mins! Unless you somehow think that'd be Booker's trade value? We'd have massive cap space, draft picks, elite young talent, and a bunch of veteran options. So I'm not sure where you come up with loading up on vet mins and 2nd rounders??

And yes! It'd be much easier to trade Beal as an expiring for the reasons that I've already mentioned (IF he even would choose to stay). Also, yes!! A massive $57 million expiring would be a very desirable trade asset with this current CBA and how punitive the 2nd apron is! Or for teams already in the 2nd apron with disgruntled stars that might not want to stay on those teams, or teams that want to pivot and rebuild and are looking to get out from under long-term money! One such perfect example that comes to mind is Lauri Markannen in Utah! or really also taking back multiple smaller long-term contracts in exchange for getting other key pieces- maybe a Jerami Grant? Or perhaps a Jamal Murray or Aaron Gordon+ pivot? But again, IF trading Booker and KD, then obviously Beal wouldn't even want to stay for a rebuild! So, he'd agree to a trade and waive his NTC.

And it's funny you claim to not care what they do, but then fairly aggressively attack any differing perspectives man! And you "think" you can see their path, or at least one that follows what they've said? And this somehow makes sense to you how exactly? because their decisions and strategies have been so great and successful and yielded such great results!! And honestly, man, how is that any different than what you're doing with your veiled barbs, backhanded comments, and constant chiding of ideas that are different than yours or the front office?? Kind of hypocritical to accuse others of doing the very thing you're doing consistently just because some of us don't choose to follow "lock step" to the front offices' egregiously bad decisions that put us in this very situation to begin with!

Lastly, that's cool if you're done responding to my posts, man! Hopefully, doing so will save you much frustration and emotional trauma. And my posts are only so long and detailed out of respect to give your replies the level of investment/effort I feel they deserve. If I didn't still respect you, I would just answer in kind with sarcastic one-liners or short responses. But I guess we all have our roles here...huh?....LOL. Apparently, to you, mine is a maniacal antagonist. But is doesn't take an FN' genius GM or genius in general to look at our situation and understand that continuing to do the same thing over and over again despite repeated failures is a very bad plan or "path" to pursue! And how else would you prefer I share my perspectives than by using "I" would do this and "I" would do that rhetoric? Would it be more palatable to you if I just used a 3rd person rhetoric? Should I impose to say other people would/should do this as if to speak on the behalf of others?

All this being said, you're right that stretching Beal is not the top of our problems! Let's see how things play out and if that actually happens this summer. At the very least, it's going to be very interesting to see how the front offices' plan you're championing (to a degree) plays out for our future! :D


Bumping this to annoy Frank and say I'm Team GoK.


We are all team GOK!

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1655 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Apr 16, 2025 1:39 am

Calvin Klein wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:
Its also funny that we can say that two high esteem coaches couldn't win here but in the same sense neither were esteemed enough to keep the jobs where they won championships. Why fire a championship coach? Those two teams have to be nuts right?


Obviously, it speaks more to the disturbing trend in the NBA today based around an "instant gratification" desire/ expectation. And a "what have you done for me lately! culture. Now, of course, rosteer fit and coach/players fit is paramount consideeration! But whose job is it to make that happen and actually construct the proper pieces conducive for success? The coach or the front office and ownership? I'd see such hasty or rash decisions being more of an indictment of an inept front office than of the coach man. :dontknow:


Every single coach has been fired at some point, except 2 or 3. People put too much blame on coaches. They all have seasons were they are considered the best and then, if the situation chances, are considered the worst. It's all about fit and having a proper roster. Coaches can't do magic.


In fairness, I think the blame is shared by everyone! But with the lion's share of it going to Ishbia and low-key Isaiah Thomas (as this has his fingerprints all over, just like what he did to the Knicks too! Then it breaks down more or less like this for me personally:

- Ishbia. 60%
- Jones/ Bartlestein/ front office. 20%
- Coach Bud. 10% for his rigid, unmutable, unadaptive rotations and his basic unwillingness to play our young players in favor of his favorites in Plumlee, Jones, etc. Also, his taking 82 games to still not figure out a stable rotation and having the 23rd-ranked defense when Vogel did much better with a much less talented roster.
- Players. 10%
:dontknow:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1656 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Apr 16, 2025 1:53 am

handsome salary wrote:Now the talk is how the Suns will work with Durant so he can go where he wants. The few teams involved in that conversation are going to sit back and go "You're asking too much. Here's what little we'll give you. Take it or leave it."



There'll be teams that become desperate to land him once they get bounced or do well, but come close only to fall short and then look at KD as the missing piece that'll push them over the top! And then offers will escalate and get better once teams start bidding!

For sure, teams like Denver, Dallas, the Knicks, and possibly even the flakers will aggressively pursue him this offseason! Our inept front office only needs to exhibit patience and strength in negotiations to pull solid value! Let other teams overthink things for a change! :D
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1657 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Apr 16, 2025 2:03 am

BobbieL wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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Here it comes - the Ishbia special

Durant to Houston or another teams
Those players/picks to the Pelicans
Zion to the Suns and Ishbia will add more draft picks


Even though I get the concerns around Zion, I'd actually like getting him as he's a legitimate "alpha" who, when fully engaged (the big question) has shown to be unstoppable in the post and going to the hoop! Also, physicality obviously isn't an issue for him, neither is athleticism or that "go for the jugular" mentality! Under the current circumstances, I wouldn't give up the farm for him, but maybe say a couple 2-3 premium players and like 3 1sts, and if done correctly, let Booker play off of him? And as long as his contract is still loaded with partial guarantees and benchmark incentives, I think it could work?? Luckily though, we really don't have more picks to add even if Ishbia wanted to?

I'd be curious to see what his consensus value might actually be right now with the durability concerns and any other considerations. :dontknow:
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1658 » by sunskerr » Wed Apr 16, 2025 2:25 am

Hero we needed in the media might be Stephen A Smith of all people?

Good lord, dark times. But if people on high-profile media start talking about how bad Ishbia is, he'll be super embarrassed which is good (or bad?).
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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part V 

Post#1659 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Apr 16, 2025 5:08 am

sunskerr wrote:Hero we needed in the media might be Stephen A Smith of all people?

Good lord, dark times. But if people on high-profile media start talking about how bad Ishbia is, he'll be super embarrassed which is good (or bad?).

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Re: 2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV 

Post#1660 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Apr 21, 2025 2:36 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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Many here, including Slim and myself, had been trying to tell people that Monty Williams was the problem. how many potential really good or impactful players had to be lost due to this as well as James Jones' gross ineptitude, and Sarvers' overall parsimonious azzhattery? :banghead:
Before the KD trade and before the Beal trade, the Suns under Monty Williams were 64-18.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2022.html

Who fixed what wasn't broken?
Bye bye Beal.

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