2016 Draft

[AtheJ415]

I'm so very torn about what PF I'd want with the WAS pick. Rabb may be the most projectable 2 way guy. I like a lot about Chriss, Ellenson, Skal, Stone, Sabonis, Davis. Lots of really good options. I think I'd probably go Chriss, Ellenson, Rabb, Skal at the moment.

[ATTL]

We were discussing girls?

I don't know how the hell my phone turned "Hield" into "Girls". HIeld!

I was talking about Ullis. Although I always judge girls I meet based on their ability to guard NBA 1s.

I've judged girls based on their potential, in the past. I prefer finished products now.

[thamadkant]

I think OG Anunoby is leaning towards declaring, he got inconsistent minutes as a freshman and Farrell/ Bryant(most likely) are leaving so Indiana has to start over from scratch. He should be a lock for the lotto, we should be all over a shutdown defender who can guard positions 1-5 with a ungodly wingpsan of 7'6 (8 inches more than his height!). Right now he's offensively raw, needs to convert more at the line and cut down the turnovers, also needs to quicken his release and gather to get his shot off when contested. But he can already knock down open threes and has a soft touch around the basket

Good read
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4699719-og-anunoby-nba-draft-scouting-report-kawhi-leonard-jimmy-butler

But... Suns development team especially in defense and smarts... Will play a huge factor in bringing out a Kawhi Leonard or Butler out of someone.



Suns may also need to poach some other teams staff this off season.



O

[saintEscaton]

Honestly torn between Ingram and Simmons, but at the end of the day, I think it's easier to teach Simmons how to shoot than it is to teach Ingram how to do a lot of other stuff

Simmons doesn't even have a jumper to fix,its virtually non-existent. His free throw form looks fine, but set shot mechanics are entirely different and not predictive. He will be a tweener defensively if he can't body up 4s, fortunately for him there a few ZBo style bangers in the league, he is backed down way too easily in the post and there's no way in hell he has the lateral agility or length to stay in front of wings. He is good at anticipating and picking off passing lanes tho. I think Ingram can fill out his rail think frame well above 200+ pounds to take and finish through NBA contact without compromising his game which isn't predicated on speed, he actually is kind of slow-footed for his weight with an awkard gait. KD had no functional upper body strength entering the league(couldn't even manage a rep at the Combine) so I'm not too concerned, his two-way upside and well-rounded offensive arsenal makes up for it

[bwgood77]

Maybe next year the Suns can draft themselves a new Dragan. Probably could have gotten him with the Lakers pick if it isn't top 3. He's projected to go 6th and can hit the 3.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbrXB3Lcung[/youtube]

I'm quoting myself from a July post on the first page...just in case people hadn't watched him at all...this is of course a while in the past, but just watching it, though it's only in an under 18 competition against Bologna, you see some nice passes, a nice hook shot and he really seems to fight for rebounds which is something we haven't seen much out of our PFs in the past.

[bwgood77]

Honestly torn between Ingram and Simmons, but at the end of the day, I think it's easier to teach Simmons how to shoot than it is to teach Ingram how to do a lot of other stuff

Simmons doesn't even have a jumper to fix,its virtually non-existent. His free throw form looks fine, but set shot mechanics are entirely different and not predictive. He will be a tweener defensively if he can't body up 4s, fortunately for him there a few ZBo style bangers in the league, he is backed down way too easily in the post and there's no way in hell he has the lateral agility or length to stay in front of wings. He is good at anticipating and picking off passing lanes tho. I think Ingram can fill out his rail think frame well above 200+ pounds to take and finish through NBA contact without compromising his game which isn't predicated on speed, he actually is kind of slow-footed for his weight with an awkard gait. KD had no functional upper body strength entering the league(couldn't even manage a rep at the Combine) so I'm not too concerned, his two-way upside and well-rounded offensive arsenal makes up for it

I'd take Ingram probably but I'd be happy with either. I like ball movement and passing, but I hate guys that can't shoot, so if we get Simmons he better learn that or the rest of his skills won't matter as much.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Simmons shooting form does look ugly. But LeBron shoots 34% outside of 3 feet.

I think there's plenty of opportunity to get Simmons to a 16-20 point player even with that handicap.
- Transition 2 FGs = 4 points
- Half Court In The Paint 3 FGs = 6 points
- 4 Trips to FT Line = 5 points
= 15 points without needing a good jumper.

Then you look to his strengths with rebounding, assists, steals, blocks and you could have a 15/10/5/2/1 player which I don't think exists in the NBA right now.

What would help Simmons for us is that we already potentially have our clutch scorers in Booker and Warren, so Simmons doesn't have to be the no.1.

[saintEscaton]

Maybe next year the Suns can draft themselves a new Dragan. Probably could have gotten him with the Lakers pick if it isn't top 3. He's projected to go 6th and can hit the 3.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbrXB3Lcung[/youtube]

I'm quoting myself from a July post on the first page...just in case people hadn't watched him at all...this is of course a while in the past, but just watching it, though it's only in an under 18 competition against Bologna, you see some nice passes, a nice hook shot and he really seems to fight for rebounds which is something we haven't seen much out of our PFs in the past.

Posted this earlier, in case you missed it. Nice breakdown

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJD9kPQNdJ4[/youtube]

[Mulhollanddrive]

My concerns about Bender are whether he can develop moves inside the arc (I've made mention before he's probably even behind Alex Len albeit at 18).

In his Israel league stats, 2pt shots make up 41% of his total points. That is similar to Channing Frye (38% in 2011) which is what I hope he doesn't become, just an outside stretch shooter and below average rebounder.

[saintEscaton]

Simmons basically projects to be a super glue guy. More capable of creating for himselfbut overall inferior Draymond Green without the leadership intangibles, chip on shoulder or firey D. He's an absolute freight train in the open court but he would literally have to live at the charity stripe to be 20+ PPG scorer and he's not quite the freak of nature /crafty initiator who can just put his head down and draw calls at will. He is a confused leftie who is actually right hand dominant as a driver, most of his running floaters come from that side as well.

[JMac1]

I see my boy (figure of speech) Gambo likes Dunn. He is going into his pre-draft brain washing stage pretty early this year. But, I think Dunn is going to be a stud, as is Hield and Ingram, and possibly Murray, though I have cooled on him.

[Mulhollanddrive]

1 deal breaker with Dunn - Has never had over 106 Offensive Rating against college kids.

That's similar to what Brandon Knight has had in the NBA, so imagine Dunn's may be even worse against professionals.

[JMac1]

1 deal breaker with Dunn - Has never had over 104 Offensive Rating against college kids.

That's what Brandon Knight has had in the NBA, so imagine what Dunn's figure will be against professionals.

If you are going to throw a bunch analytics at me, I am not hearing it. I had Stats 50 at UCLA, I know about dependent variables that are involved in those numbers such as, what type of offense were they running, what type of defense was being played are those similar to the NBA? What type of guys played with him, against him? What was he dealing with off of the court? How about his girlfriend's impact? blah blah blah..... You guys just throw a random number out there like that's it.

I saw Brandon play and Dunn play, Dunn looks to pass and Brandon looks to shoot.... Dunn plays better defense. Now analytics will say it is Brandon, but it won't say he has Tim Duncan circa 1999 playing behind him..........

[jeff2020]

Interesting article as I am 100% against drafting bender with the 3rd pick. It's such a gamble that he never even has an impact as just a role player and at the 3rd pick that would set us back pretty far if we are trying to build through the draft. We miss on him here and the rebuild is set back 2-3 years. If we are 3rd I really want no part of that pick unless it's Dunn and we trade Knight.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

[JMac1]

Interesting article as I am 100% against drafting bender with the 3rd pick. It's such a gamble that he never even has an impact as just a role player and at the 3rd pick that would set us back pretty far if we are trying to build through the draft. We miss on him here and the rebuild is set back 2-3 years. If we are 3rd I really want no part of that pick unless it's Dunn and we trade Knight.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

Yea, think I am pretty much in this camp. Problem is, Knight is untradeable, so I guess we better be ready to trade back.

[jeff2020]

Interesting article as I am 100% against drafting bender with the 3rd pick. It's such a gamble that he never even has an impact as just a role player and at the 3rd pick that would set us back pretty far if we are trying to build through the draft. We miss on him here and the rebuild is set back 2-3 years. If we are 3rd I really want no part of that pick unless it's Dunn and we trade Knight.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

Yea, think I am pretty much in this camp. Problem is, Knight is untradeable, so I guess we better be ready to trade back.

I think Knight is tradeable but not for the price McD will be wanting. If we are 3rd the best thing to do in my opinion is trade down and accumulate a 1st rounder a year or 2 down the road.

[jcsunsfan]

Interesting article as I am 100% against drafting bender with the 3rd pick. It's such a gamble that he never even has an impact as just a role player and at the 3rd pick that would set us back pretty far if we are trying to build through the draft. We miss on him here and the rebuild is set back 2-3 years. If we are 3rd I really want no part of that pick unless it's Dunn and we trade Knight.

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

The more I look at film of Bender, the more I am not interested in him. He is just too raw, has to develop too much. The Suns cannot afford to throw the dice with that pick. It has to be a sure thing. Its the best pick they have had or will have for a while. They have to take the nearest thing to a sure thing. If its the third pick, its probably Hield.

[NavLDO]

Thing is half of your list for Wash pick have higher ceiling and could end up better player than him.I'd rather gamble on potential in weak draft like this than settle for a guy which has energy backup big written all over him.Let alone draft him 5th overall.I'd rather take Luwawu if he is available than Sabonis TBH.

I'm not really saying take him. I'd probably rather gamble too, but I will trust what McD does. The problem is he may be forced to look short term since he is in the last year of his contract.

He should swing for the fences, I don't see any realistic acquisition/rookie who will immediately move the needle.

I'm actually more concerned that McD is forced to take, and overpay for, a middling talent in FA, ala Knight, in order to attempt to move the needle to the playoffs. I'd prefer the team (read: Sarver) would take a similar approach to developing the team that the Wolves are taking. The Wolves are oozing with young talent: LaVine, Shabazz, Wiggins, Dieng, and Towns; additionally, they have some decent role players that are young as well: G. Smith, Payne, and Tyus Jones. If they upgrade their PG, they are serious contenders next year, or the year after. And let's say they take Dunn this year, that's a line-up in two years of:

Dunn / T. Jones
LaVine / Shabazz
Wiggins / ??
Dieng / Payne
Towns / G. Smith

Anybody here think that's not an impressive squad in 2017-2018 season???

Yet the best we are looking at, is:

Bledsoe / Knight
Booker / Goodwin
Warren / Bogdanovic
Bender (or Simmons if we're lucky) / (Rabb, Davis, or Labissiere)
Len / Chandler

And that's $27M tied up in two middling talents...as BACK-UPS!! Does anyone see that in Minny??

My point is, Sarver needs to wake-up and go full rebuild and suck it up for a season or two, to get us to the 'promised land'. Having a vet like Teletovic or Leuer or Tucker or Budinger for $3-to-$7M per is fine...and smart, but the Chandler thing didn't work, and neither did the Knight experiment. Cut those guys loose and trade them.

I know, I go back and forth on this with Knight, but honestly, he's not worth $14M per when we have a Bledsoe-Booker, PG-SG combo. And if we take a Dunn or Demetrius Jackson because they are BPA, then fine, so long as at least ONE of our lotto picks is a PF. And if we are able to dump Knight and Chandler this off-season, and take on an overpriced expiring or two for next season, then roll with that, then that's fine. And if in doing that, we stink again next season and get another early-to-mid lotto selection, we go into the '17-'18 season with:

Bledsoe / (lotto pick)
Booker / Goodwin???
Warren / Bogdanovic
(lotto pick) / (Vet like Teletovic)
Len / (lotto pick)

Then we are looking like a team on the rise, IMO. But Sarver needs to allow McD a couple of years to put this together without fear of being fired. And if somehow, McD can parlay any assets into a no-kidding All-Star, then even better; but so long as McD continues being pressured into building a win-now team next season for fear of being fired, then we will never be able to dig out of this funk. Paying $27M per, for two back-up-level players, is not the way to get to being a contender, IMO.

[Djedefre]

For the future of franchise it's substantial to be patient.
Even the first pick this year won't save us, or make us a contender neither upcoming season, nor season after that. If the choice is to build through the draft, it is foolish to think that one year, one draft is enough, no matter how deep it is, unless you have like 5 lotto picks.
One more season without mad chase for the last two spots in the PO and securing the top 5 pick for the (as it appears now great) 2017 draft could be huge for us. That's one more year of maturing and gaining experience for our core players (Book, Len, TJ, Bledsoe, Knight (if there is no hope in this wicked world), that top 5 pick from this years draft) and a chance to evaluate their progress, deciding whether they're still viewed as a part of teams future, consequently making a move when you are in charge of the moment, not the other way around.

[NavLDO]

I think OG Anunoby is leaning towards declaring, he got inconsistent minutes as a freshman and Farrell/ Bryant(most likely) are leaving so Indiana has to start over from scratch. He should be a lock for the lotto, we should be all over a shutdown defender who can guard positions 1-5 with a ungodly wingpsan of 7'6 (8 inches more than his height!). Right now he's offensively raw, needs to convert more at the line and cut down the turnovers, also needs to quicken his release and gather to get his shot off when contested. But he can already knock down open threes and has a soft touch around the basket

Good read
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4699719-og-anunoby-nba-draft-scouting-report-kawhi-leonard-jimmy-butler

Kind of the same reasoning I'm interested in Thomas Bryant from Indiana. He's a F/C at 6'10.5", but also an 'ungodly' wingspan of 7'5.5" and standing reach of 9'4". He's shot 69% from the field, and 36% from 3 (albeit extremely sparsely), but the fact that he's even taken those shots leads me to believe he has some versatility. Additionally, he's a hustler, and at 241 lbs, that's pretty impressive, and something that can't be taught; either you have the go-gettive-ness and motor, or you don't, and he has it. Just watch some of his highlights from time hack 1:12 to about 2:00 and from 6:50 on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oDTpS3Pnzo

Oh, and he turns just 19 on 31 July. If he's still on the board at 27, we should strongly consider taking him, depending on what we've already done in the lotto. If we take a euro-stash in the late lotto, then definitely, Bryant should be on McD's radar, IMO.