The 2016 Offseason Thread

[bwgood77]

Nothing had to crawl up my ass to disagree with you. Ridiculous means not serious and angry means you don't like the team so you will say something negative just to be express your frustration. Obviously something crawled up
your ass.


If you actually think those guys will beat the starters is your opinion, but that means I never have to seriously consider it going forward.

What if I said the Cleveland Browns are better than the Arizona Cardinals and meant it, then anything I say after that about football would not be respected, opinion or not, as if you didn't know. Then again maybe you don't.

JMac, I guess it means he is higher on Warren, Chriss, Bender and Len than you, and higher on Knight than most. A lot of people think Warren is better than Tucker and Chriss/Bender probably have more upside than Dudley, and Len could be better than Chandler this year. I mean, Tucker, Dudley and Chandler isn't a lights out front 3. You think Knight, Warren, Chriss, Bender and Len are as bad as the Cleveland Browns?

Ridiculous: deserving or inviting derision or mockery; absurd.

That is my opinion of Knight, Barbosa, Warren, Rookie and Len being better than Bledsoe Booker JD PJ and Chandler.

The Cleveland Browns did wins 3 games. They play in the NFL and they lost to the Denver Broncos in OT. I didn't compare the Cardinals to the Sun Devils, then you would have a point.

Saying or believing that the back ups are better than those starters is absurd IMO. And many times (probably most times) poster on this board are intentionally ridiculous because they are pissed, so to act as if I was tripping for saying a guy was angry or ridiculous for saying that the bench is better than our starters with a TBH included, is comical.

"Oh my god JMAC, how could you say/imply/ask that of a poster? They are always serious, never angry, and they are very insightful. Something must have crawled up your ass to think otherwise......."

Oh the shock of my retort.

I'm pretty high on Warren and Len. Some think Knight will be much better when not hampered by injury. Many of us are very high on our rookies. Dudley, Tucker and Chandler are all decent, but none are really starting caliber players on a good team. If Knight and Warren got hot and Len cleaned up the boards, with the rookies playing better than expected, it could be a fun competitive game.

Regardless of what you think you don't need to overreact, make assumptions about how someone is feeling or insinuate they are crazy.

[jcsunsfan]

I think Barbosa was more a nostalgia feel good in a rough season move than a sign that a trade is coming. My guess is they chose him over price for that last guard spot.

I think that is also because they want to develop Ulis as a pg in the price role. Leandro also makes trading Knight easy. They could take a good young player and a bad contract back in a multi-player deal.


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If the focus is about the future, then Leandro does not affect dealing Knight. Leandro won't be around for that "future" anyway. You dont trade what you could argue is a young building block because you signed a guy in the twilight of his career when you're a rebuilding team.

This is not true. You trade a young building block guard who is redundant for another young building block or even a star at a different position or a position of need. Leandro provides the requisite depth post trade.


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[jredsaz]

Isn't Chandler the player most likely to get moved? The Suns are suring up the veteran leadership deficit with players who are happy with a rebuild situation.

The only problem is the Suns would probably need to acquire salary in return in order to stay within reach of the floor.

Monroe or Henson?

[NavLDO]

Love the Barbosa move. One more veteran to teach Knight how to be a good sixth man. Barbosa was and is an elite sixth man and Dudley was always a very good backup. Both of these guys will brainwash Knight to make him a good sixth man. Nice additions.

What I don't understand I how Dudley has not gotten more time as a 'stretch 4' type through the years, or played more in a starting role. Is it due to his T-Rex arms (6'7" wingspan on a 6'7.25" height Forward is pretty bad...along with his 8'6" Standing Reach)?

He did start for us quite a bit in the '11-'12 and '12-'13 seasons, but other than those two seasons, he's largely been a back-up. But with a career .399 3PT%, excellent career A/TO (1.7 career)and PPR numbers (.5) for a non-PG, and while not a direct correlation, those numbers are often found with guys with high BBIQs. His lowest TS% of .48 was with the Bobcats his first 1 and a quarter years. The same with his eFG% of .51. But outside of those numbers, they typically hovered around .58 and .57 respectively.

It also appears we was rarely a "1st option" for a team as a scorer, even though his numbers dictate that they might should have been.

Anyway, glad he's back, especially considering that he had one of his best years in the league last year.

[dremill24]

I think that is also because they want to develop Ulis as a pg in the price role. Leandro also makes trading Knight easy. They could take a good young player and a bad contract back in a multi-player deal.


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If the focus is about the future, then Leandro does not affect dealing Knight. Leandro won't be around for that "future" anyway. You dont trade what you could argue is a young building block because you signed a guy in the twilight of his career when you're a rebuilding team.

This is not true. You trade a young building block guard who is redundant for another young building block or even a star at a different position or a position of need. Leandro provides the requisite depth post trade.


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If you subscribe to the premise that we are focused on building for the future, then the bolded part is irrelevant. Trading a redundant building block for another that isn't redundant is perfectly sensible, but is perfectly sensible regardless of whether you have a mid-late 30s guy that can play the departed player's spot. Having Barbosa doesn't suddenly make it ok to trade Knight.

[JMac1]

JMac, I guess it means he is higher on Warren, Chriss, Bender and Len than you, and higher on Knight than most. A lot of people think Warren is better than Tucker and Chriss/Bender probably have more upside than Dudley, and Len could be better than Chandler this year. I mean, Tucker, Dudley and Chandler isn't a lights out front 3. You think Knight, Warren, Chriss, Bender and Len are as bad as the Cleveland Browns?

Ridiculous: deserving or inviting derision or mockery; absurd.

That is my opinion of Knight, Barbosa, Warren, Rookie and Len being better than Bledsoe Booker JD PJ and Chandler.

The Cleveland Browns did wins 3 games. They play in the NFL and they lost to the Denver Broncos in OT. I didn't compare the Cardinals to the Sun Devils, then you would have a point.

Saying or believing that the back ups are better than those starters is absurd IMO. And many times (probably most times) poster on this board are intentionally ridiculous because they are pissed, so to act as if I was tripping for saying a guy was angry or ridiculous for saying that the bench is better than our starters with a TBH included, is comical.

"Oh my god JMAC, how could you say/imply/ask that of a poster? They are always serious, never angry, and they are very insightful. Something must have crawled up your ass to think otherwise......."

Oh the shock of my retort.

I'm pretty high on Warren and Len. Some think Knight will be much better when not hampered by injury. Many of us are very high on our rookies. Dudley, Tucker and Chandler are all decent, but none are really starting caliber players on a good team. If Knight and Warren got hot and Len cleaned up the boards, with the rookies playing better than expected, it could be a fun competitive game.

Regardless of what you think you don't need to overreact, make assumptions about how someone is feeling or insinuate they are crazy.

I didn't insinuate anything. I said exactly what I wanted to say. I didn't call his opinion crazy, I said ridiculous. Like it or not, I can use the word ridiculous. Please don't turn the meaning into crazy just to admonish me, thank you.

Edit: How did I over-react?

He said what does that mean?

You are ridiculous or angry.....far far from over-reacting. I guess any reaction that isn't acceptable is an over-reaction. pfft, smh.

[dremill24]

Love the Barbosa move. One more veteran to teach Knight how to be a good sixth man. Barbosa was and is an elite sixth man and Dudley was always a very good backup. Both of these guys will brainwash Knight to make him a good sixth man. Nice additions.

What I don't understand I how Dudley has not gotten more time as a 'stretch 4' type through the years, or played more in a starting role. Is it due to his T-Rex arms (6'7" wingspan on a 6'7.25" height Forward is pretty bad...along with his 8'6" Standing Reach)?

He did start for us quite a bit in the '11-'12 and '12-'13 seasons, but other than those two seasons, he's largely been a back-up. But with a career .399 3PT%, excellent career A/TO (1.7 career)and PPR numbers (.5) for a non-PG, and while not a direct correlation, those numbers are often found with guys with high BBIQs. His lowest TS% of .48 was with the Bobcats his first 1 and a quarter years. The same with his eFG% of .51. But outside of those numbers, they typically hovered around .58 and .57 respectively.

It also appears we was rarely a "1st option" for a team as a scorer, even though his numbers dictate that they might should have been.

Anyway, glad he's back, especially considering that he had one of his best years in the league last year.

He's not as much of a plus on defense at the 4 as you might think, is probably the biggest reason. And he really doesn't do a whole lot on the boards. While his offensive game is a nice fit as a modern 4, there's a reason the Wizards went from being a good defensive team to a pretty mediocre one when they started going with small ball 4s who don't necessarily excel on defense.

[JMac1]

That is my opinion of Knight, Barbosa, Warren, Rookie and Len being better than Bledsoe Booker JD PJ and Chandler.

well then, I'm guilty of having a ridiculous, angry opinion of Warren being better than both JD and PJ, probably Bender too, and Len being better than Chandler next year. That's 3 out 5 players on the bench that are better than the starters.

So that's 3 out of 5...lol. So you are saying that the bench is better than the starters because you believe 3 out of 5 are better, yes or no?

It's not how many, it is about the totality of the team.....smh...again.

Got Damn.....the things people say just to try to prove a point, totally ignoring the reason why I said the guy was ridiculous or angry. But you don't go on record saying the bench is better than the starters, because if you did, the same would apply to you, but you didn't. be a man and just say the bench is better than the starters, not some 3 out of 5 bull ****.


Edit: Oh **** I didn't see Bender being better than PJ and JD already..... SMH. That's how you come up with 3 out of 5. Btw, PJ and Chandler's defense really takes Len and Warren out of the equation as of today. So for me I'd say 5 out 5.

Bledsoe>Knight
Booker>Barbosa
JD=Warren
PJ>Rookie
Chandler> or = Len

[Moochthemonkey]

That is my opinion of Knight, Barbosa, Warren, Rookie and Len being better than Bledsoe Booker JD PJ and Chandler.

well then, I'm guilty of having a ridiculous, angry opinion of Warren being better than both JD and PJ, probably Bender too, and Len being better than Chandler next year. That's 3 out 5 players on the bench that are better than the starters.

So that's 3 out of 5...lol. So you are saying that the bench is better than the starters because you believe 3 out of 5 are better, yes or no?

It's not how many, it is about the totality of the team.....smh...again.

Got Damn.....the things people say just to try to prove a point, totally ignoring the reason why I said the guy was ridiculous or angry. But you don't go on record saying the bench is better than the starters, because if you did, the same would apply to you, but you didn't. be a man and just say the bench is better than the starters, not some 3 out of 5 bull ****.

okay, fair enough. The bench rotation is better than the starters in my angry ridiculous opinion.

[JMac1]

well then, I'm guilty of having a ridiculous, angry opinion of Warren being better than both JD and PJ, probably Bender too, and Len being better than Chandler next year. That's 3 out 5 players on the bench that are better than the starters.

So that's 3 out of 5...lol. So you are saying that the bench is better than the starters because you believe 3 out of 5 are better, yes or no?

It's not how many, it is about the totality of the team.....smh...again.

Got Damn.....the things people say just to try to prove a point, totally ignoring the reason why I said the guy was ridiculous or angry. But you don't go on record saying the bench is better than the starters, because if you did, the same would apply to you, but you didn't. be a man and just say the bench is better than the starters, not some 3 out of 5 bull ****.

okay, fair enough. The bench rotation is better than the starters in my angry ridiculous opinion.

Can't be both angry and ridiculous. You are one or the other, which is it?

[King4Day]

Too much talent not to contend for the playoffs? Wait. Could you help me, please, because i’m having a hard time recognizing it. We could talk team’s potential and our excitement to watch the kids grow and improve, but this is western conference here guys. We may be loaded with potential, but turning it to a quality isn’t an overnight process. Name me the teams that you envision worse or with less PO chances in the west.

Bledsoe was having an allstar year before he got hurt.
Booker won't have as much attention when the defense has to worry about Bledsoe now.
Had EB not gotten hurt, there's a good chance we would have finished with the 11th-13th range (lottery)

Now, with more chemistry together, and adding vets like Dudley and Barbosa, we are going to compete more than every. It's very unlikely a healthy Suns team finishes bottom 5 this year.

First line - not so sure. 20pts with 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 3.5 turnovers, 45 FG%, 50% EFG and neutral net rating is not so exceptional
Second line - agreed absolutely
Third line - we were 12-19 when he went down, minus of 7 games. Not exactly on pace to be 7th/8th seed contender.
Forth line - don't get me wrong, i'm not scared of us being a bottom team in the west, quite the opposite, it's just that i can't see that instant quality as many here see, as it appears. What can Dudley and Barbosa really add, save for the mentorship and sinking open 3s?

Another thing I didn't mention was, we were in a lot of games after Watson took over. While we'll never know, those are games we might pull out this year.
Just a thought. I felt like, even with Bledsoe down, we were better than our record showed.

[saintEscaton]

Love the Barbosa move. One more veteran to teach Knight how to be a good sixth man. Barbosa was and is an elite sixth man and Dudley was always a very good backup. Both of these guys will brainwash Knight to make him a good sixth man. Nice additions.

What I don't understand I how Dudley has not gotten more time as a 'stretch 4' type through the years, or played more in a starting role. Is it due to his T-Rex arms (6'7" wingspan on a 6'7.25" height Forward is pretty bad...along with his 8'6" Standing Reach)?

He did start for us quite a bit in the '11-'12 and '12-'13 seasons, but other than those two seasons, he's largely been a back-up. But with a career .399 3PT%, excellent career A/TO (1.7 career)and PPR numbers (.5) for a non-PG, and while not a direct correlation, those numbers are often found with guys with high BBIQs. His lowest TS% of .48 was with the Bobcats his first 1 and a quarter years. The same with his eFG% of .51. But outside of those numbers, they typically hovered around .58 and .57 respectively.

It also appears we was rarely a "1st option" for a team as a scorer, even though his numbers dictate that they might should have been.

Anyway, glad he's back, especially considering that he had one of his best years in the league last year.

Back then there were more old school bangers who would eat him up on the glass. Duds can't stay with wings anymore he is exclusively a 4 now

[King4Day]

Didn't know where else to post this but man I miss Nash.

This is my fav mix video of his. Came out 10 years ago (very scary to think about). The quality is really bad but it's still cool to watch.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trjJit37ucM[/youtube]

[Dr Manute]

Looks like what we have so far:

C........Tyson Chandler........Alex Len........Alan Williams
PF........Jared Dudley........Dragan Bender........Marquese Chriss
SF........PJ Tucker........TJ Warren
SG........Brandon Knight........Devin Booker........Archie Goodwin
PG........Eric Bledsoe........Tyler Ulis........Leandro Barbosa

14 players (NBA average)

[OGBAH]

If we are supposed to go after Hayward next summer what's that mean for Warren?

How can this be a make or break year for him if Tucker is still here

[bwgood77]

Ridiculous: deserving or inviting derision or mockery; absurd.

That is my opinion of Knight, Barbosa, Warren, Rookie and Len being better than Bledsoe Booker JD PJ and Chandler.

The Cleveland Browns did wins 3 games. They play in the NFL and they lost to the Denver Broncos in OT. I didn't compare the Cardinals to the Sun Devils, then you would have a point.

Saying or believing that the back ups are better than those starters is absurd IMO. And many times (probably most times) poster on this board are intentionally ridiculous because they are pissed, so to act as if I was tripping for saying a guy was angry or ridiculous for saying that the bench is better than our starters with a TBH included, is comical.

"Oh my god JMAC, how could you say/imply/ask that of a poster? They are always serious, never angry, and they are very insightful. Something must have crawled up your ass to think otherwise......."

Oh the shock of my retort.

I'm pretty high on Warren and Len. Some think Knight will be much better when not hampered by injury. Many of us are very high on our rookies. Dudley, Tucker and Chandler are all decent, but none are really starting caliber players on a good team. If Knight and Warren got hot and Len cleaned up the boards, with the rookies playing better than expected, it could be a fun competitive game.

Regardless of what you think you don't need to overreact, make assumptions about how someone is feeling or insinuate they are crazy.

I didn't insinuate anything. I said exactly what I wanted to say. I didn't call his opinion crazy, I said ridiculous. Like it or not, I can use the word ridiculous. Please don't turn the meaning into crazy just to admonish me, thank you.

Edit: How did I over-react?

He said what does that mean?

You are ridiculous or angry.....far far from over-reacting. I guess any reaction that isn't acceptable is an over-reaction. pfft, smh.

I just don't understand how you can someone angry because they like our bench unit. Are you angry?

[saintEscaton]

Do you think it's because of the Warriors?
If things stand, they'd have to either cut some guys or the players would have to make some sacrifices financially.

Has nothing to do with that.

You sure about that? 3 days after the FA period that has completely shifted the face of the NBA and after 2 years of projections prior to this year they suddenly say "oopsie, calculator broken".

This will actually impact the warriors in a major way from what i read.

Yeah it may have have big implication for the Dubs, if the projection ends up being even less than 102 mill. They can't go over the cap to re-sign Durant because he is on a 1+1 deal, they would have to part ways with Iggy or KD would have to take less than the full max of 33 mill+ which I doubt he would do especially if he is playing third fiddle without enough touches to go around

[bwgood77]

I'm surprised by the poll results that more people think Chandler will be traded than Tucker. While I guess we are kind of thin at PF and could use Tucker, he is in the last year on his deal and makes a lot less and could help out a competitive playoff team or team trying to get into the playoffs far most than Chandler who still has like $39 million on his contract. I think you can get a better asset for Tucker and more teams will need a player like him. With Dudley on the roster it seems we probably wouldn't re-sign him next year anyway, so dealing him seems smart.

Plus just having Len at center seems a little thin.

[DirtyDez]

1. If the Suns were to S&T for Hayward next summer could they give him 5 years or is that not allowed anymore?

2. What will his 4-yr max be next summer (roughly?)

[LukasBMW]

The biggest take away from the Watson interview was that they are trying to create a San Antonio Spurs family like culture.

In theory, I like it. Teams win championships. Teams are needed for great defense.

This explains why we didn't make some low risk/high reward signings like Jennings, T Jones, or Okafor. The Suns are obviously happy with their young talent and want to create a family/friendly environment for them to grow in.

It seems perhaps Watson and even McDonough have reeled in Sarver and gotten him to commit to a long term rebuild? Perhaps Sarver now understands that fans will show up if the team plays hard. Perhaps Sarver has learned from Beasley and other signings of guys with questionable character?

I used to criticize Colangelo for not taking more chances on talented guys with questionable attitudes and quickly trading away talented players with bad attitudes (sometimes at huge loses), but that strategy lead to many many many playoff runs.

I'm all in for a SAS culture and internal growth.

Pretty sure Westbrook, Love, and Okafor won't be coming here anytime soon.

Also seems like Archie has 3-6 months to shape up or he will be waived/traded.