Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[nevetsov]

Knight and Jones JR to ORL

Hezonja, Payton and Meeks (cut) to PHX

Bledsoe, Ulis, Payton
Booker, Barbosa, Jenkins
Warren, Hezonja, Tucker
Chriss, Bender, Dudley
Chandler, Len, Williams

Swap of underutilised young assets. Also creates better roster balance.

Well after Paytons 26 pts on 8-11 shooting and 14 assists last night I think they might not think Knight is much of an upgrade, if one at all. Add in defense and don't see it. Knight has extremely limited trade value. Philly might be the only possible destination and that is because they have too many centers and Noel desperately wants out. I wouldn't be surprised if we deal him to Philly and Noel goes somewhere else and maybe we get a guard back who may embrace the 6th man role a little better.

Wasn't aware of Payton's big game, but one game does not a season make. Knight, even PJ for that matter have had isolated outings like that and we are still calling for their heads. Much like Orlando have been against Payton so far this season.

Is he still coming off the bench in favour of DJ Augustin?

[bwgood77]

Knight and Jones JR to ORL

Hezonja, Payton and Meeks (cut) to PHX

Bledsoe, Ulis, Payton
Booker, Barbosa, Jenkins
Warren, Hezonja, Tucker
Chriss, Bender, Dudley
Chandler, Len, Williams

Swap of underutilised young assets. Also creates better roster balance.

Well after Paytons 26 pts on 8-11 shooting and 14 assists last night I think they might not think Knight is much of an upgrade, if one at all. Add in defense and don't see it. Knight has extremely limited trade value. Philly might be the only possible destination and that is because they have too many centers and Noel desperately wants out. I wouldn't be surprised if we deal him to Philly and Noel goes somewhere else and maybe we get a guard back who may embrace the 6th man role a little better.

Wasn't aware of Payton's big game, but one game does not a season make. Knight, even PJ for that matter have had isolated outings like that and we are still calling for their heads. Much like Orlando have been against Payton so far this season.

Is he still coming off the bench in favour of DJ Augustin?

Yes, but last night, for example, he played 35 minutes to Augustin's 15. Payton is just a better player than Knight by almost every metric except 3 pt shooting and FT%, but neither is very good at 3pt shooting, however Payton has a better eFG%, TS%, assist rate, steal rate, block rate, and turnover rate and makes far less money. http://bkref.com/tiny/3nqWb

[gaspar]

Woj mentioned the Suns in his podcast today (33:45). He thinks that Knight still has decent value around the league.

Woj on Noel: “The research teams have done on him is not good. They don’t get good reports back on their intel, how he’s carried himself there, of his habits. It’s not a great return. There are teams willing to do a deal for him and bring him in but they don’t want to give up much. And so at some point there, Philly has got to make a decision, ‘What’s the best we can get for him?’ I think at some point he probably moves, too.”

[Zelaznyrules]

I'll be pretty shocked if Bledsoe is traded. Even moreso if Knight becomes the starter. The latter would be awful for me to watch. I'm surprised anyone that watches the team would think Bledsoe will be traded the way he embraces the team and the team embraces him.. The only way I figure McD might trade him is if he gets a 3 or 4 year extension. Without Bledsoe right now, this team would be by far the worst team in the NBA. Not that it would be a bad thing for the future if it was, but McD would last about 2 seconds this year in that scenario.

Well, yeah, Knight only becomes the starter if Bledsoe is traded or out with injury and I don't think there's many that would be looking forward to that. But I'd bet we'd see a far better Brandon Knight if he were the uncontested starting point guard. Not that we'd be all that in love with him but he's playing historically bad and he has far too much talent for that. He was never a great starting point guard but he was never this bad. Right now he's trying to fill that instant offense 6th man role every minute he's on the court even when he's nominally the PG. He wouldn't be doing that if he were back in the starting point guard role (hopefully).

But I agree, we probably won't move Bledsoe (or even Chandler). I just think it's the best thing for this organization. We need to build our foundation now, not string it along for another half dozen years. Bledsoe is playing about as well as he's capable of and I just don't want us to have to go through his next contract negotiation. There's little doubt that Rich Paul is going to be looking for a monster deal for him and I don't think we have the luxury of letting him walk or paying that bill. And if we wait until next year or later, IMO, his trade value will start to go down. So take the lumps now.

Knight wasn't particularly good last year when starting after Bledsoe went down was he? I know he might have been playing through injuries but he really hasn't been playing well since we got him. It seems like Bucks fans don't like him either even though that was probably his best season. All they say is the same things we say. He gets his points to the detriment of everyone else.

No he wasn't but as you said he was playing with injuries and he was in and out of the lineup and even with Eric injured he still wasn't fully given the reins as our point guard. And like Booker, his game suffered from having to function next to some very marginal players. Yes, I know that the "Bucks hated him" theme got a lot of play here but there were a lot of Knight fans there too that got overlooked here because that didn't fit the narrative (the one about McDonough being a complete idiot).

Don't get me wrong, I'd greatly prefer we trade him this instant as long as we get back reasonable value. Personally, I can't stand watching anyone that does the things he does, not the least of which is his post-made shot routine which screams "look at me". I think he's aloof, arrogant and worried more about looking good than playing good. I just hate the idea of selling anyone at a discount if there's anyway to avoid it.

[lilfishi22]

I still am looking at the big picture. Taking into account that it will take a perfectly built team to topple the Cavs or Warriors, is it worth trying to put a competitive team together now when there will be nearly no chance to find the right combination of players to be elite again anytime soon? I want what we had during the Nash era. I don't see Valencuinas moving the needle. It should probably also be a concern if Toronto would be willing to give up on their supposed prized big man for Tucker and Chandler and what would likely be a late lottery pick.

I'm still on the train of drafting high and hope to land a superstar. I don't care about the playoffs. There are 2 things to be excited about as an NBA fan.

- Your team is elite and a legit title contender
or
- Your team is bad and you can watch the young players grow so there's at least hope.

I don't want to be in between anymore.
The Warriors, Cavs, and OKC were bad until they finally nailed the draft. Minny and Philly were bad (still bad but...) until they had good drafts/trades that gave them possible game changing stars. That's just how this league works and is what we need.
I will happily take 10 more losing seasons if it means we find our cornerstone. I know management won't be that patient but it's more exciting than the treadmill.

I would rather keep Chandler to help influence the locker room than trade for a guy who, at best, may just help us reach the playoffs.

That being said, given McD is fighting for his job, I wouldn't be shocked to see this type of trade this season.

But the reason why we're winning games right now is because guys like Chandler is playing great D and grabbing 20-something rebounds every 2nd game. We have a guy like PJ shutting down AD and Melo. These are the guys contributing to wins. If you want a youth focused path, then might I remind you, we're trading Chandler(34) and Tucker(31) for JV(24). Does the maths there not compute for you?

We're trading two old vets for a young C who's less than a year older than Len. YOUTH

If you want to tank then trade the two guys who's contributing to wins! You also get the opportunity to watch a young guy (JV) play and grow.

[sunskerr]

Are there any legs to this Noel rumor? I don't see how it fixes any problems. In fact I think it puts us in a worse position because he's another restricted free agent. We already have Len who seems to have improved.

[AtheJ415]

I don't mind JV, particularly at only 24 years old, but I would rather us draft somebody who is a better fit for our system.

[grumpysaddle]

This is just... This guy needs to go. Alex Len having that bad of a +/- is concerning, but i think he spends most of his time on the floor with Knight, unfortunately. Plus Len was awful to start the season, but he's been turning it around lately. But yeah, Knight by far the worst total +/-, the worst per game, and the worst per 36. There is no way the team isn't trying to tank "subtly". What can the Suns even squeeze out of another team, though?

Player Team +/- +/- Per Game +/- Per 36 Min
443 Brandon Knight PHX -214 -8.6 -12.7
442 Timofey Mozgov LAL -172 -6.6 -11.3
441 Emmanuel Mudiay DEN -162 -6.8 -8.1
439 Evan Turner POR -153 -5.7 -8.1
440 Luol Deng LAL -153 -5.7 -8.1
438 Justin Anderson DAL -143 -6.2 -11.4
437 Alex Len PHO -135 -5.6 -8.7
436 Trevor Booker BKN -128 -5.8 -7.4
435 Buddy Hield NO -127 -4.9 -9.9
434 Dario Saric PHI -124 -5.2 -7.6


EDIT: I spent a **** of time making that look pretty while avoiding doing work, and the spacing doesn't even show up after submitting. RAGE.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I don't mind JV, particularly at only 24 years old, but I would rather us draft somebody who is a better fit for our system.

Didn't we already do that?

[OGBAH]

Is Len hurt or is he traded?

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[OGBAH]

19 mil for those 3 in the trade machine
We could get anyone

[Zelaznyrules]

Are there any legs to this Noel rumor? I don't see how it fixes any problems. In fact I think it puts us in a worse position because he's another restricted free agent. We already have Len who seems to have improved.

Yeah, it makes very little sense. About the only way it would interest me is if they'd swap Noel for Knight and also give us the right to swap 1st rounders in this draft (without protection). From a value standpoint that might sound unwarranted but all we'd really get with Nerlens is the right to overpay him in the offseason. And from Philly's view, they might not consider the swap rights much of a risk. If Philly agreed, we could then send Chandler to Minnesota for a pick or two and have a legit chance of playing winning ball the rest of the season with TJ returning and Ulis/Barbosa eating up Knight's minutes.

[Fo-Real]

Why the hell did we send Ulis and Williams to the d league if Len and Knight are out for this game? Not to mention Warren still out.

[OGBAH]

They'll be back tomorrow night for the Spurs game

[dremill24]

I don't mind JV, particularly at only 24 years old, but I would rather us draft somebody who is a better fit for our system.

What system is that?

[nbafan341]

Jonas valancuinas for pj tucker, chandler and a future lotto protected 1st rounder?

JV is 12/9 in 26 min on a contending team and he'd get 18/12 in any rebuilding team. One catch: his defence sucks. Its excrusiatingly frustrating and half of the raptors board would bash me for this offer. However, if you guys are interested, i hope our GMs are as well. Both chandler and PJ can help the reptors reac thr next level while also getting a pick to not completely sacrificd the reptors future. I know for sure the suns would get the center they wanted LEN to be. I think Bender and Jonas could co exist because Bender reminds me of a stretch 4 in progress with DPOY potential.

BEfore I made jonas trade proposals, i was hoping the reptors wouldve traded up to grab bender. I was betting all season long for the raptors to get him with the knicks pick. He may not have a 3pt shot yet but I know it will come, kid is wayy too talented and loves the game too much to not get better.

[nbafan341]

I still am looking at the big picture. Taking into account that it will take a perfectly built team to topple the Cavs or Warriors, is it worth trying to put a competitive team together now when there will be nearly no chance to find the right combination of players to be elite again anytime soon? I want what we had during the Nash era. I don't see Valencuinas moving the needle. It should probably also be a concern if Toronto would be willing to give up on their supposed prized big man for Tucker and Chandler and what would likely be a late lottery pick.

I'm still on the train of drafting high and hope to land a superstar. I don't care about the playoffs. There are 2 things to be excited about as an NBA fan.

- Your team is elite and a legit title contender
or
- Your team is bad and you can watch the young players grow so there's at least hope.

I don't want to be in between anymore.
The Warriors, Cavs, and OKC were bad until they finally nailed the draft. Minny and Philly were bad (still bad but...) until they had good drafts/trades that gave them possible game changing stars. That's just how this league works and is what we need.
I will happily take 10 more losing seasons if it means we find our cornerstone. I know management won't be that patient but it's more exciting than the treadmill.

I would rather keep Chandler to help influence the locker room than trade for a guy who, at best, may just help us reach the playoffs.

That being said, given McD is fighting for his job, I wouldn't be shocked to see this type of trade this season.

But the reason why we're winning games right now is because guys like Chandler is playing great D and grabbing 20-something rebounds every 2nd game. We have a guy like PJ shutting down AD and Melo. These are the guys contributing to wins. If you want a youth focused path, then might I remind you, we're trading Chandler(34) and Tucker(31) for JV(24). Does the maths there not compute for you?

We're trading two old vets for a young C who's less than a year older than Len. YOUTH

If you want to tank then trade the two guys who's contributing to wins! You also get the opportunity to watch a young guy (JV) play and grow.

If youre down, I really hope our teams are haha.
Jv would be a good 18/12 player. i think his defence will actuslly grt better cus he will play on a team that doesnt scapegoat him cus guys like demar cant guard their man. A top 10 lotto protected or even a lotto protected pick with chandler and pj would be great. I dont know if the suns would do it, depends on how high they see jonas ceiling. From the raptors perspective, i hope masai has given up on jonas and accepts that we cant wait on his defence.

[lilfishi22]

I don't see it happening but I think that's good value for a young big with potential who's not an RFA.

[TeamTragic]

Are there any legs to this Noel rumor? I don't see how it fixes any problems. In fact I think it puts us in a worse position because he's another restricted free agent. We already have Len who seems to have improved.

Are you watching the games? Len has been horrible this season. I'm not exaggerating. If you want proof then see below.

This is just... This guy needs to go. Alex Len having that bad of a +/- is concerning, but i think he spends most of his time on the floor with Knight, unfortunately. Plus Len was awful to start the season, but he's been turning it around lately. But yeah, Knight by far the worst total +/-, the worst per game, and the worst per 36. There is no way the team isn't trying to tank "subtly". What can the Suns even squeeze out of another team, though?

Player Team +/- +/- Per Game +/- Per 36 Min
443 Brandon Knight PHX -214 -8.6 -12.7
442 Timofey Mozgov LAL -172 -6.6 -11.3
441 Emmanuel Mudiay DEN -162 -6.8 -8.1
439 Evan Turner POR -153 -5.7 -8.1
440 Luol Deng LAL -153 -5.7 -8.1
438 Justin Anderson DAL -143 -6.2 -11.4
437 Alex Len PHO -135 -5.6 -8.7
436 Trevor Booker BKN -128 -5.8 -7.4
435 Buddy Hield NO -127 -4.9 -9.9
434 Dario Saric PHI -124 -5.2 -7.6


EDIT: I spent a **** of time making that look pretty while avoiding doing work, and the spacing doesn't even show up after submitting. RAGE.

That is really bad. No surprise though. Len is pure garbage and down in the lower half with Knight. If you are anywhere near Knight this season then you are a terrible player that does not deserve a contract.

Mark my words. If we give Len a big contract he will be worse than Robin Lopez. He will not have any motivation and he will regress.