Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[thamadkant]

The more I think about it... Magic sold Payton so low to the Suns because Suns are a threat to them this coming draft... Magic are banking on one of Doncic or Young. By trading a semi good young PG to the Suns at cheap rates... It changes the Suns focus on who draft. Hence increasing the chances for Magic to land one of Doncic or Young.

The other teams competing for those 2 already have young PGs and Suns were the clear cut team that lacks a PG... Hence Magic have Payton away for free to the Suns.

I see you Magic...

That sounds a bit ludicrous, but it's funny how the polls have changed a bit and how Doncic and Young are suddenly dropping because of a few good games from Elfrid. I don't think he should have much impact on our drafting strategy whatsoever.

Hopefully unless it was a toss up anyway, McD doesn't shy away from who he thinks is the BPA for today's game in the draft.

But I know you are a guy that wants a big and a low posts scorer. I think you've been posting about it for 10 years or so, so you might finally get it.

I want the Suns to have their first true great center... Someone like Hakeem, Admiral, Duncan, or the modern greats like Davis, Cousins etc

Great shooting is great. But Great Big men... Make championships easier to attain. Duncan and Hakeem played with teams with great shooters (for their time) and they dominated as well.

Great shooters feed off of great big men... And vice versa. I feel suns shooters would thrive better with a big man attracting attention inside.


I think Ayton is going to be a good big... JJJ is also someone I really like.. Reminds me of Davis a bit... Especially the way he attacks the rim and the way he blocks shots...

[thamadkant]

Getting a dominant big inside a true star big is still much harder to get from the draft.

I think of you want shooters... Spot up shooters anyways... Europe is a great place to draft from. But dominant bigs? That big who can put up 20 and 10 a night and go off for 40 easily if left alone still makes championship easier to get.

Davis and Cousins with decent shooters around them would be much better than their current team of slashers and meh shooters. I don't understand why their FO can't see this or doesn't make moves to put spot up shooters around these 2.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Jamal Murray is so niceeeee. Him and Booker together would’ve been wild!

Instead we have Bender...

Jamal is a great young player, but long term, I for one am very pleased we took Bender...even now. Murray is not a real point guard.

With Bledsoe and Booker in place, to take Murray woulda been a curious chess move type pick. Then Bender would have been chosen before #8 ...so Murray and Chriss the likely result. If taking Murray had panned out into Murray and Bender being Suns? Sign me up! Just don't think it would have happened.

[bwgood77]

Jamal Murray is so niceeeee. Him and Booker together would’ve been wild!

Instead we have Bender...

Jamal is a great young player, but long term, I for one am very pleased we took Bender...even now. Murray is not a real point guard.

With Bledsoe and Booker in place, to take Murray woulda been a curious chess move type pick. Then Bender would have been chosen before #8 ...so Murray and Chriss the likely result. If taking Murray had panned out into Murray and Bender being Suns? Sign me up! Just don't think it would have happened.

Yeah, I was going to respond earlier...I'd take Bender today over Murray. Is he as good now? No. But people ignore defense very often and his impact can be enormous. He still might not end up the better pick, but no way would I make the straight up trade right now (not that the Nuggets would either and not that any non-biased Suns fan would agree with, so I don't need to check it out on the trade board). Bender has length, iq, defense, shoots the 3, and likely will be better inside in time....showed a few flashes. Judging a guy like him too early could be a massive error if a roster decision was made because of it. Maybe he doesn't do it..who knows?

Murray has it easy too...he can play PG and not pass much usually...they have a point center and a ton of floor stretches so he gets a ton of wide open looks.

Bender is 10x more versatile and Murray's strength is shooting, and he usually doesn't do a whole lot else (though it's easy to make a hot take after a game)...he will have an occasional game with assists, boards, and can get some steals, but his upside is limited much more so.....even from 3, currrently on bref, Bender shoots 37.9% from 3 and Murray shoots 37.8% from 3. But that is just a small part of what Bender can eventually and has the potential to be a great two way player.

Too many early hot takes on draft picks.

[jredsaz]

Last place at the break. I would bet money we land outside of the top 5 picks

[Kerrsed]

Last place at the break. I would bet money we land outside of the top 5 picks

Its sad because when i use the lotto sim on Tankathon, Suns only get the #1 pick like 2 out of 10 times.

[JJ13]

So did McD save his job with the Payton trade?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Per 30:
Mike James (first 4 games) 19 points, 5 assists, 2 rebounds @ 59/38/88
Isaiah Canaan (first 4 games) 15 points, 6 assists, 5 rebounds @ 40/42/98
Elfrid Payton (first 3 games) 17 points, 7 assists, 7 rebounds @ 58/50/83

[Bogyo]

Per 30:
Mike James (first 4 games) 19 points, 5 assists, 2 rebounds @ 59/38/88
Isaiah Canaan (first 4 games) 15 points, 6 assists, 5 rebounds @ 40/42/98
Elfrid Payton (first 3 games) 17 points, 7 assists, 7 rebounds @ 58/50/83

Sample size, eye test. I wouldn't even let the first two tie Elfrids shoelaces. While I'm not even sure Elfird is our starting PG going forward.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

So did McD save his job with the Payton trade?

I would like to think that McD's job was only under threat in the court of popular opinion.

There was a thread today on reddit nba titled something to the effect of, Suns low key setup really nice for the future?

Didn't got a lot of upvotes, but almost all of the comments were in support of the notion, though most took exception to the descriptor "low key."

Our future looks brighter than perhaps almost any team's. Utah, Denver, Milwaukee, LA, Philly, Minny, Boston are the other teams well set-up for future contention but... I like us. Is it because I'm overly attached to the players I watch play every night? Of course. But for most of the history of my fandom, I've been jealous of the young talent of other teams. Of course, I loved the Nash era (destroyed by Amar'e's microfacture) and the Kidd/McDyess team (destroyed by McDyess's departure). But I've never felt better about this team's future than now. Right now.

Of course, I'd love to add a big. I worry about Ayton, but his upside is so high. Bagley's a sure bet, in my view, but we would still need a rim protector. Jaren Jackson is neck and neck with those two, and honestly, I don't know how to choose among them. Heck, Bamba might just as good for us, given our positional need at the 5.

Love Booker. Love Jackson at least as much. Really, really like Bender. Really like Payton and Warren (is it crazy that already, I'm conflicted as to which of these two is the more valuable player?). Still like Chriss.

We should add a player that can crack that top 3. I agree with bwg about the top 6: any of Doncic, Ayton, Bagley, Porter, Jackson and Young would immediately be up there with our two top guys (the "love" category). Bamba might join Bender, but I might put him somewhere between Booker/Jackson and Bender.

Is Porter a 4? Can Doncic defend the 4? Wouldn't Bender be particularly great initiating a high-low offense with Bagley or Ayton? Could JJJ and Bender revolutionize NBA defense? Isn't it nice that Payton couldn't just bolt if we drafted Young? Could we just take any non-center, create enough room for a max slot, sign Capela, and call it a rebuild?

So many questions.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Seems we stopped Center Bender when it was on a hot streak but I think that'll play an important role in who fits where.

[Saberestar]

Jamal Murray is so niceeeee. Him and Booker together would’ve been wild!

Instead we have Bender...

Jamal is a great young player, but long term, I for one am very pleased we took Bender...even now. Murray is not a real point guard.

With Bledsoe and Booker in place, to take Murray woulda been a curious chess move type pick. Then Bender would have been chosen before #8 ...so Murray and Chriss the likely result. If taking Murray had panned out into Murray and Bender being Suns? Sign me up! Just don't think it would have happened.

Yeah, I was going to respond earlier...I'd take Bender today over Murray. Is he as good now? No. But people ignore defense very often and his impact can be enormous. He still might not end up the better pick, but no way would I make the straight up trade right now (not that the Nuggets would either and not that any non-biased Suns fan would agree with, so I don't need to check it out on the trade board). Bender has length, iq, defense, shoots the 3, and likely will be better inside in time....showed a few flashes. Judging a guy like him too early could be a massive error if a roster decision was made because of it. Maybe he doesn't do it..who knows?

Murray has it easy too...he can play PG and not pass much usually...they have a point center and a ton of floor stretches so he gets a ton of wide open looks.

Bender is 10x more versatile and Murray's strength is shooting, and he usually doesn't do a whole lot else (though it's easy to make a hot take after a game)...he will have an occasional game with assists, boards, and can get some steals, but his upside is limited much more so.....even from 3, currrently on bref, Bender shoots 37.9% from 3 and Murray shoots 37.8% from 3. But that is just a small part of what Bender can eventually and has the potential to be a great two way player.

Too many early hot takes on draft picks.

Bender can be a good (or even great) player if he improves over the next few years, but it looks like Jamal Murray is and is gonna be a TERRIFIC player.

Jamal has it. He is like Booker, he plays with that killer instinct that only the best players in the game have.

The gap between them as a players is huge right now.

[Jdiddy701]

Murray is on a different atmosphere than Bender. If Suns had Murray and Booker, I’d feel very bad for the league. Would be crazy fun to watch.

Bender is a nice role player, does not have the it factor like Murray does. Bender will be a solid stretch big man though, not an all-star like Murray.


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[Qwigglez]

Someone on Suns Reddit posted that the Suns were in talks to acquiring Boogie Cousins with Deandre Jordan going to the Pelicans and a young player going back to the Clippers. Suns didn't want to give up the young player though. They talked about it on the radio or something, can anyone confirm this? I looked it up and can't seem to find it anywhere.

https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/comments/7xstde/lacava_suns_were_in_talks_at_deadline_to_acquire/

[Mulhollanddrive]

Seems like every star trade has asked for Booker or Jackson.

[Revived]

Jamal Murray is so niceeeee. Him and Booker together would’ve been wild!

Instead we have Bender...

Jamal is a great young player, but long term, I for one am very pleased we took Bender...even now. Murray is not a real point guard.

With Bledsoe and Booker in place, to take Murray woulda been a curious chess move type pick. Then Bender would have been chosen before #8 ...so Murray and Chriss the likely result. If taking Murray had panned out into Murray and Bender being Suns? Sign me up! Just don't think it would have happened.

It doesn’t matter if he’s a “real point guard” or not, the Nuggets are still winning ball games with both him and Gary Harris who isn’t a “real point guard” either in the backcourt. They’ve completed their rebuild and one of the best young rosters in the league with the amount of star power and spacing they have.

Murray/Booker would’ve worked fine here especially if we had like Jackson starting at the 3 because then while nobody is great playmaking wise, everyone would at least be good enough to playmake some which would make it enough.

The Nuggets, along with the Jazz, 76ers and Timberwolves are teams who started their rebuild around the same time as the Suns and have now turned into playoff teams.

[Revived]

Jamal is a great young player, but long term, I for one am very pleased we took Bender...even now. Murray is not a real point guard.

With Bledsoe and Booker in place, to take Murray woulda been a curious chess move type pick. Then Bender would have been chosen before #8 ...so Murray and Chriss the likely result. If taking Murray had panned out into Murray and Bender being Suns? Sign me up! Just don't think it would have happened.

Yeah, I was going to respond earlier...I'd take Bender today over Murray. Is he as good now? No. But people ignore defense very often and his impact can be enormous. He still might not end up the better pick, but no way would I make the straight up trade right now (not that the Nuggets would either and not that any non-biased Suns fan would agree with, so I don't need to check it out on the trade board). Bender has length, iq, defense, shoots the 3, and likely will be better inside in time....showed a few flashes. Judging a guy like him too early could be a massive error if a roster decision was made because of it. Maybe he doesn't do it..who knows?

Murray has it easy too...he can play PG and not pass much usually...they have a point center and a ton of floor stretches so he gets a ton of wide open looks.

Bender is 10x more versatile and Murray's strength is shooting, and he usually doesn't do a whole lot else (though it's easy to make a hot take after a game)...he will have an occasional game with assists, boards, and can get some steals, but his upside is limited much more so.....even from 3, currrently on bref, Bender shoots 37.9% from 3 and Murray shoots 37.8% from 3. But that is just a small part of what Bender can eventually and has the potential to be a great two way player.

Too many early hot takes on draft picks.

Bender can be a good (or even great) player if he improves over the next few years, but it looks like Jamal Murray is and is gonna be a TERRIFIC player.

Jamal has it. He is like Booker, he plays with that killer instinct that only the best players in the game have.

The gap between them as a players is huge right now.

Yeah while I can understand liking Bender because of the potential and flashes of potential, that’s all he is at this point. I don’t think the Suns would even hesistate if they can swap Bender for Murray.

Murray is a rising star like Booker. I don’t think many Nuggets fans would even swap him for Booker much less, Dragan Bender.

Bender has zero confidence in his ability and hesitates everything while Jamal Murray since entering the league has played like he belongs. He talks trash to even high profile players and such and doesn’t back down from anything.

Bender has also choked in general in national TV games or games against quality opponents and Murray usually puts up very good numbers against the elite teams (one gripe on him I’ve seen from Nuggets fans is that he sometimes only gets up for the big games, which is the exact opposite of Bender thus far).

It may be a hot take but similar to how many of us knew the Brandon Knight trade was awful right when it happened, this could also be something like that. Hope not though and Bender certainly seems headed to have a better career than Knight.

[NavLDO]

Chriss is someone who was given the green light last year and showed massive amount of improvement after the all-star break. It appears he thought he could coast this summer and would be given the starting role, which he did, however he didn't improve enough for him to keep his starting spot. It's completely his fault, and I think his trajectory at this point is in line with how motivated he wants to be. Should he want to be a starter in this league then that all depends on how hard he works in the gym this summer. I do believe he's the kind of player though, that if he was still our starter we'd see extra motivation from him to continue to improve, but again, he hasn't earned that.

I disagree with this to some extent; I've mentioned it a few times. He was a 19-YO impressionable kid who was just handed millions of dollars, and obviously, not followed up with/pushed/guided/mentored, etc. this off-season. Not in a way that a 19-YO needs to be. the retort, of course, is--"Well, x-player did?" Well, that's great, but not all 19-YOs are built the same. He had played competitive Basketball for 4 years up to last summer. Yes, he played football before that, but that is still different.

Yes, he needs to own his own situation; he's an adult. But do you remember when you were 19-YO? I do. I didn't have the gumption to get up in time to go to my college classes. Hard work? Pffft...

So, my point is, every NBA team needs to have some sort of plan in place for new rookies and 1st year players, IMO. A very regimented diet/practice/workout/training/study schedule. Something akin to how the Military does it for young Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines/Coast Guardsmen. If they let them do what they wanted during their training and first 3-4 years, when junior enlisted, they'd all be out by age 21, most likely.

These 'kids'...yes, 'kids' need to be treated as such, until they prove they can behave on their own, IMO. If I'm paying you $4M, you better believe I'm allowed to impose rules, etc.

[BobbieL]

If Doncic and Ayton are off the board I could see Jaren Jackson being next up.

I can see that being a possibility. Ayton and Doncic seem to be 1/2 or 1A and 1B.

End of the day - even with Payton on board , and even having four young forwards in Bender, WArren, Chriss and Jackson - I don't think McD needs to get cute on draft day and try to plug a need. Just rank the players, and go BPA.

I want Doncic or Ayton today and everyday until ping pong day.

You see Ayton play - like last night - and the potential is there to be a dominating offensive player.

[Wilber85]

Murray is on a different atmosphere than Bender. If Suns had Murray and Booker, I’d feel very bad for the league. Would be crazy fun to watch.

Bender is a nice role player, does not have the it factor like Murray does. Bender will be a solid stretch big man though, not an all-star like Murray.


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I will bet you $1000 Murray never makes an all star team