Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

[thamadkant]

Getting Leonard now... then maybe when Dudley and Chandler expires next season, they can convince Klay Thompson to join or even have Anthony Davis agree on a trade.

Stars attract stars

[DirtyDez]

76ers would be very keen on Ingram as well...

Suns need him badly IMO... the forward next to Jackson and Booker... he's inbetween Chriss and Bender height wise and longer than Chriss wingspan wise... better than both combined

Ingram’s high ceiling will show when his body matches his skill. He’s a better fit with Lebron than Simmons and Lebron should demand they keep him.

[OzzyAZ]

If we trade the #1 pick, Booker or JJ for a year of Kawhi (if he actually feels like playing) I will literally buy a pitchfork and a torch and take to the streets.

[thamadkant]

76ers would be very keen on Ingram as well...

Suns need him badly IMO... the forward next to Jackson and Booker... he's inbetween Chriss and Bender height wise and longer than Chriss wingspan wise... better than both combined

Ingram’s high ceiling will show when his body matches his skill. He’s a better fit with Lebron than Simmons and Lebron should demand they keep him.

but to heck with Lebron.


I want Ingram on the Suns....

Taken on Deng and get Ingram... heck give them a future protected pick if they must

Ball I think he'll be much better next season...

[asudevil]

Getting Leonard now... then maybe when Dudley and Chandler expires next season, they can convince Klay Thompson to join or even have Anthony Davis agree on a trade.

Stars attract stars

How do you see the Suns taking on $18mil in Leonard? There is no way the Suns take Leonard without giving up all their cap space for years...along with a ton of picks.

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[Revived]

Yeah, that would be crazy unless they had a clean physical and had an agreed upon extension with him. That way they could extend him and Book.

But I'd still rather just take Ayton. And I'm sure McD probably would too.

If we traded the #1 pick for him and then lost him in FA next year it would be one of the more brutal blows in Suns history, and we've had some brutal ones.

You’d rather have Ayton than a fully contract extended and medically checked out Kawhi Leonard who is still only 26?

Yes and quite frankly any of the first 5 picks in this draft, for this team.

Chances that more than one of the first 5 picks ends up a player half as good as Kawhi is lower than the chance of Suns winning the title next season (Vegas odds at 300/1).

[Revived]

Getting Leonard now... then maybe when Dudley and Chandler expires next season, they can convince Klay Thompson to join or even have Anthony Davis agree on a trade.

Stars attract stars

How do you see the Suns taking on $18mil in Leonard? There is no way the Suns take Leonard without giving up all their cap space for years...along with a ton of picks.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using RealGM mobile app

Who cares about cap space if the team is already a contender? Do you think the Warriors are worried about cap space? Or the Rockets? Or the big 3 Heat? Or the back to back Lakers?

The only purpose of cap space is to build a contender using it. Once you have a contender that’s gonna last for several years, it’s not needed.

Booker/Leonard/Jackson or Booker/Leonard/Ayton or Doncic is a contender within 2 years with cheap role players all around them.

If Kawhi doesn’t agree to an extension of course hell no.

[asudevil]

Getting Leonard now... then maybe when Dudley and Chandler expires next season, they can convince Klay Thompson to join or even have Anthony Davis agree on a trade.

Stars attract stars

How do you see the Suns taking on $18mil in Leonard? There is no way the Suns take Leonard without giving up all their cap space for years...along with a ton of picks.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using RealGM mobile app

Who cares about cap space if the team is already a contender? Do you think the Warriors are worried about cap space? Or the Rockets? Or the big 3 Heat? Or the back to back Lakers?

The only purpose of cap space is to build a contender using it. Once you have a contender that’s gonna last for several years, it’s not needed.

Booker/Leonard/Jackson or Booker/Leonard/Ayton or Doncic is a contender within 2 years with cheap role players all around them.

If Kawhi doesn’t agree to an extension of course hell no.

I think I just have a more optimistic view of this team in another year.

Yes we could gut our roster for Leonard...but I'd rather bank on holding tight for one more year with what we have.

I think we have the ability (not probably) to set us up for the future better than selling the farm for the near future that Leonard would provide.

I like the idea of keeping the youth/picks that we have. I'd rather compete for a championship in the 4-8 year window than playing 4th fiddle to GS/Houston/LA for the next 3 years.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Revived]

How do you see the Suns taking on $18mil in Leonard? There is no way the Suns take Leonard without giving up all their cap space for years...along with a ton of picks.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using RealGM mobile app

Who cares about cap space if the team is already a contender? Do you think the Warriors are worried about cap space? Or the Rockets? Or the big 3 Heat? Or the back to back Lakers?

The only purpose of cap space is to build a contender using it. Once you have a contender that’s gonna last for several years, it’s not needed.

Booker/Leonard/Jackson or Booker/Leonard/Ayton or Doncic is a contender within 2 years with cheap role players all around them.

If Kawhi doesn’t agree to an extension of course hell no.

I think I just have a more optimistic view of this team in another year.

Yes we could gut our roster for Leonard...but I'd rather bank on holding tight for one more year with what we have.

I think we have the ability (not probably) to set us up for the future better than selling the farm for the near future that Leonard would provide.

I like the idea of keeping the youth/picks that we have. I'd rather compete for a championship in the 4-8 year window than playing 4th fiddle to GS/Houston/LA for the next 3 years.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using RealGM mobile app

That’s kind of a loser mentality. The Warriors won’t go away until someone makes them. The Heat went away when the Spurs made them go away.

As for “gutting this roster”, this roster besides Booker, Jackson and whoever is drafted with #1 overall isn’t worth much or anything at all.

Trading for a star player that commits longterm even at the expense of draft picks and players isn’t such a bad thing. Boston did it with Kyrie and their seen as 2nd or 3rd favorite to win the title. Of course there are other examples as well.

By this logic, if Anthony Davis was available for a trade, I feel like some would argue the Suns shouldn’t pursue it....

If this was a George like situation where Kawhi doesn’t agree to extend and simply says he’ll make a decision after the season then of course don’t trade much or anything for him.

[Waylay13]

Who cares about cap space if the team is already a contender? Do you think the Warriors are worried about cap space? Or the Rockets? Or the big 3 Heat? Or the back to back Lakers?

The only purpose of cap space is to build a contender using it. Once you have a contender that’s gonna last for several years, it’s not needed.

Booker/Leonard/Jackson or Booker/Leonard/Ayton or Doncic is a contender within 2 years with cheap role players all around them.

If Kawhi doesn’t agree to an extension of course hell no.

I think I just have a more optimistic view of this team in another year.

Yes we could gut our roster for Leonard...but I'd rather bank on holding tight for one more year with what we have.

I think we have the ability (not probably) to set us up for the future better than selling the farm for the near future that Leonard would provide.

I like the idea of keeping the youth/picks that we have. I'd rather compete for a championship in the 4-8 year window than playing 4th fiddle to GS/Houston/LA for the next 3 years.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using RealGM mobile app

That’s kind of a loser mentality. The Warriors won’t go away until someone makes them. The Heat went away when the Spurs made them go away.

As for “gutting this roster”, this roster besides Booker, Jackson and whoever is drafted with #1 overall isn’t worth much or anything at all.

Trading for a star player that commits longterm even at the expense of draft picks and players isn’t such a bad thing. Boston did it with Kyrie and their seen as 2nd or 3rd favorite to win the title. Of course there are other examples as well.

By this logic, if Anthony Davis was available for a trade, I feel like some would argue the Suns shouldn’t pursue it....

If this was a George like situation where Kawhi doesn’t agree to extend and simply says he’ll make a decision after the season then of course don’t trade much or anything for him.

So let’s look at what most people say the Suns would have to give up to get Kawhi, the most common thought is I think would take the #1 and Jackson to get him. If the Suns were to give up that much to get we are worst off then we’d are now. Sure we might back the playoffs but we don’t have the talent to go any farther. You need at least 3 star player to progress in the playoffs. Now staying the course with Booker, Jackson and the #1, we will have our 3 star but we progress slower. Maybe the Suns don’t make the playoffs this years but there is a lot of improvement on the team and we still have the cap space and draft picks to bring in other talent. This is all assuming that Kawhi agrees to come to the Suns and signs an extension; if not the Suns will likely lose Booker soon after Kawhi walks because we are in a much worst spot. In my option there is almost no chance that the come out ahead if they trade for KAwhi and the trade includes any part of #1 and or Jackson.

[bigfoot]

He would have to agree to extend at the end of the season. It may not make financial sense for him to extend with any team this summer.

It’s similar to what Kevin Love did when the Cavs traded the #1 overall pick in the ‘14 draft for Love with assurances from Love that he would extend with Cavs after the season.

Suns would require assurances from Kawhi to extend after the season in the same sense.

What's to stop him from changing his mind after the suns suck again?

Nothing legally but it’s pretty rare to see a player verbally agree to extend and then leave. For example, did anyone expect Kevin Love to go anywhere else after his first season? Nope, it was basically assured that he remains there even before the season started.

Only players I can think of that changed minds after verbally agreeing to sign are Carlos Boozer and DeAndre Jordan. Both players took a hit to their reputation off it as well.

I’d say it’s like a 97% chance that players who agree to verbally sign with a team usually sign with that team.

And I don’t think a Booker/Kawhi/Jackson(?) team would suck either. I think it’s a playoff team easily and then with cap space the following summer, they can really improve even more.

Still have bad memories of McDyess

[BobbieL]

If we trade the #1 pick, Booker or JJ for a year of Kawhi (if he actually feels like playing) I will literally buy a pitchfork and a torch and take to the streets.

that's the thing - just cannot trust Kawhi to sign long term and the cost to me would take away the core so much the net gain would not be much

now if you tell Kawhi signs a long term deal and the Suns still have Booker and Jackson - I would trade Ayton and the Heat pick

but that is probably not happening

[jcsunsfan]

If we trade the #1 pick, Booker or JJ for a year of Kawhi (if he actually feels like playing) I will literally buy a pitchfork and a torch and take to the streets.

It would be the worst trade in Suns history. But, of course, we won't do that. McD always talks about "control" when he speaks of trades. This concept, he understands, though it seems many in the media do not.

[jcsunsfan]

You’d rather have Ayton than a fully contract extended and medically checked out Kawhi Leonard who is still only 26?

Yes and quite frankly any of the first 5 picks in this draft, for this team.

Chances that more than one of the first 5 picks ends up a player half as good as Kawhi is lower than the chance of Suns winning the title next season (Vegas odds at 300/1).

Baloney. One of those picks will be a superstar. And there is something wrong with Leonard. I think he has some serious injuries, and then the there is his controlling posse.

[GetYourPHX]

Kawhi doesn't want to play in Phoenix, and there's no way that Pop trades him here anyway.

Why is this even a discussion? Move on.

[darealjuice]

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2018/06/16/houston-rockets-trevor-ariza-free-agency-contract-golden-state-warriors/

Ariza reportedly looking for $50-60M over 4-5 years in his next contract. Not sure where he expects to find that though.

[jredsaz]

Next year’s FA class is really bad assuming Kawhi gets extended this year. The Suns need to be built thru the draft and trades. We aren’t the Lakers/Knicks/Heat.

Wrong. Next year's class is MUCH better than this year's for a team like Phoenix. This year's may have more at the very top simply because it has Lebron and PG13, but we have no shot at those guys. Next year's class is much deeper as far as number of stars and in particular young stars.

Horford, Kyrie, Rozier, D'Angelo Russell, Kemba Walker, Dwight Howard, Kevin Love (if he declines his PO), Millsap, Klay Thompson, Jordan Bell, Bojan Bogdanovic, Myles Turner, Patrick Beverley, Tobias Harris, Marc Gasol (if he declines PO), Dragic & Whiteside (both PO), Justise Winslow, Khris Middleton, Bledsoe, Jeff Teague, Taj Gibson, Jimmy Butler, KAT (RFA who will be matched), Mirotic (may be outdated since he signed something recently), Mudiay & Porzingis RFAs, Melo, Vucevic, Booker (our RFA), Aminu, Randolph, Cauley-Stein, Kawhi Leonard, Manu (though old), Delon Wright, Valanciunas, Sefolosha, Rubio, Jerebko, Gortat, Kief, Kelly Oubre.

That isn't a complete list just a list of guys who I think have at least moderate value on a general market or decent upside. For Phoenix, that is a lot of PG options, some vet PFs who could help, and some young max worthy guys to try and sign and trade for.

I really hope the Suns stay away from most those names and the guys I would want likely won’t hit the market. Unless you want to give Kemba and Conley contract...

Rozier and Russell excite me a little bit but a smart front office like the Nets letting him go would give me pause.

In the end the Suns won't have the space or the talent to add any game changers this or next off season via free agency. Booler isnt and shouldnt delay thay extension. Given the Lakers impending super team it's clear we need to build around Booker, Ayton, and Jackson. Suns need to add quality role players around this crew and start winning ball games. They won't be in a position to win a ring for another 3 to 5 years regardless of who they add (Save for LeBron and Kawhi coming here).

They should keep the Bucks and Heat picks as future assets to make a big move closer to their ring window. #16, #31, 2019 1st, and this year's cap space all can be used to add quality vet or two. If the Suns win a championship this decade it's going to be because Booker, Ayton, and Jackson became a big three.

[LukasBMW]

Booker, JJ, and Ayton all want to be here.

All have all-star potential.

Let's keep them and build around them.

Avery Bradly is interesting, but if you put Elf on the Celtics (with a fresh haircut) and Bradley on the Magic...I wonder what the stats look like.

[King4Day]

Dave Griffin was on NBA radio and said (regarding Philly) that the 10 & 26th picks are too much for absorbing parsons and the 4. If that's the case, I guess it wouldn't cost us the farm to get him/the pick. He admitted that the contract is really big and you won't get a ton of assets if you are moving that salary to a team who can absorb it.

[Revived]

Yes and quite frankly any of the first 5 picks in this draft, for this team.

Chances that more than one of the first 5 picks ends up a player half as good as Kawhi is lower than the chance of Suns winning the title next season (Vegas odds at 300/1).

Baloney. One of those picks will be a superstar. And there is something wrong with Leonard. I think he has some serious injuries, and then the there is his controlling posse.

If he has serious injuries, he wouldn’t be ready to pass up the super max from the Spurs to play on the final year of his contract.

Regardless, this is all hypothetical because like someone else already said, there’s no way he wants to play here and commits to an extension.