2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[sunsbum]

If we stretch $15 we can probably get under the tax next year, especially if we don't guarantee Payne's either...though not sure what we'd do at PG. I suppose we'd HAVE to try and get one for Ayton. I'm sure they really want Kyrie but Dallas really wants to keep him too...and if we paid Kyrie a max, we would probably be back in the tax.

But we can maybe get another PG for him like Rozier along with Nick Richards or something. Richards isn't great. Can't score away from the rim, but maybe that doesn't matter. He's not great, and can't score away from the rim, but we don't utilize the C much. He could probably give us like 12 and 9 if we played him 27 minutes or so, though he's never averaged 20 mpg.

Nick Richards signed a 3 year / $15,000,000 contract with the Charlotte Hornets, including $10,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $5,000,000. In 2023-24, Richards will earn a base salary of $5,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $5,000,000 and a dead cap value of $5,000,000.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/nick-richards-70684/#:~:text=Current%20Contract,dead%20cap%20value%20of%20%245%2C000%2C000.

Don't see why they'd trade him when they have him plus Mark Willaims already


I'd be fine with Rozier but again, I doubt that the best option. Better than Kyrie though I'll grant you. If we stretch cp3, can we make a play at FVV or maybe DLO? Personally, I'm not convinced the LAL wanna bring him back.

I don't really think it's a great trade, but Charlotte may just want a C who can run and score if they don't get Victor.

Toronto got Poeltl. The Lakers are doing well with Russell and I don't see the Suns wanting to pay him $30 million, to match an Ayton trade. I guess they could get Beasley too or something if he is still under contract.

I doubt if we trade Ayton, people will be happy with the return, but I know some want him gone no matter what we get. I would only trade him if it makes sense, and his value may be at an all time low right now, given he has not played well overall this year, particularly on defense. His value is likely higher, maybe mid year next year if he's playing better, especially with a rising cap where avg C pay will be increasing.

I did notice he is actually at about his playoff averages this year at around 16 and 10 though in the playoffs, though his averages in the Denver series are lower.

Sheesh. I thought his value was the lowest when nobody was interested in signing him to a max contract outside of the pacers. I guess I should never doubt Ayton's floor to seemingly somehow get lower.

[bwgood77]

Nick Richards signed a 3 year / $15,000,000 contract with the Charlotte Hornets, including $10,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $5,000,000. In 2023-24, Richards will earn a base salary of $5,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $5,000,000 and a dead cap value of $5,000,000.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/nick-richards-70684/#:~:text=Current%20Contract,dead%20cap%20value%20of%20%245%2C000%2C000.

Don't see why they'd trade him when they have him plus Mark Willaims already


I'd be fine with Rozier but again, I doubt that the best option. Better than Kyrie though I'll grant you. If we stretch cp3, can we make a play at FVV or maybe DLO? Personally, I'm not convinced the LAL wanna bring him back.

I don't really think it's a great trade, but Charlotte may just want a C who can run and score if they don't get Victor.

Toronto got Poeltl. The Lakers are doing well with Russell and I don't see the Suns wanting to pay him $30 million, to match an Ayton trade. I guess they could get Beasley too or something if he is still under contract.

I doubt if we trade Ayton, people will be happy with the return, but I know some want him gone no matter what we get. I would only trade him if it makes sense, and his value may be at an all time low right now, given he has not played well overall this year, particularly on defense. His value is likely higher, maybe mid year next year if he's playing better, especially with a rising cap where avg C pay will be increasing.

I did notice he is actually at about his playoff averages this year at around 16 and 10 though in the playoffs, though his averages in the Denver series are lower.

Sheesh. I thought his value was the lowest when nobody was interested in signing him to a max contract outside of the pacers. I guess I should never doubt Ayton's floor to seemingly somehow get lower.

Well, only a handful of teams had capspace, and most of them had Cs. But he wasn't worth a max anyway. However, given how it's easier to trade someone than sign a max guy, given a lot more teams could make offers. But his play is worse. At least he at elite efficiency last year and was a bit better on D. This year his defense regressed more, as did his efficiency overall, though some of that was probably due to an ever changing lineup this year. That obviously shouldn't impact his motor. His scoring was up from the last two years, due to other scoring options being out this year, but efficiency down...he had a bad start from midrange this season but suffered some due to larger defensive focus when we were missing a lot of starters.

The main thing is most teams have Cs

[garrick]

The NBA's new collective bargaining agreement has made maintaining a title contender over an extended period of time a difficult proposition for any franchise, especially mid to small market franchises. The strain could be felt first by the Milwaukee Bucks, who face a critical offseason with the free agencies of Brook Lopez and Khris Middleton.

"I also just want to say with the player movement that happens and the various rules, it is hard to keep a team together for six to 10 years like it was before," said Brian Windhorst on his podcast.

"And now it has become that much harder with these new rules," interjected Tim Bontemps. "These new rules are designed to break teams up. That's what they're designed to do."

"The thing about the new rules, this second apron, which the Bucks are going to be headed for... if you hit the second apron, it buries you. You can't sign anybody. You can't really trade for anybody. Your draft picks are automatically kicked to the back of the first round. It is a target on the Clippers, Lakers and at least the Nets when they started negotiating it, the Nets have since broken down. It is an absolute target to keep these teams from being able to maneuver. That's what the Bucks are potentially facing here. They are facing the fall out of the Warriors winning the title and the Nets and the Clippers paying so much money in luxury tax."

Maybe for the Suns not being able to sign anyone won't matter too much since we are always picking from the scrap heaps anyway trying to look for talent that other teams have discarded in the mold of Ish, DJ Washington, S.Lee etc etc.

I'm hoping Ishbia brings back our G league team because we are going to have to really have slim pickings trying to build our roster being so over the cap and not being a prime free agent destination in the first place.

[blee732]

Haven't posted in a while but still visit here regularly. Just wanted to post this clip from JJ Redick's podcast. Both he and Legler really hit the nail on the head in how they broke down the challenges on the offensive end.

It's so frustrating watching Book/CP3 and sometimes even KD just getting a screen up top to force a switch....only to stand there waiting for the defense to reset while nobody else moves. Really hoping to see something different tonight and seeing Payne closer to his normal self!

Watch on YouTube

[darealjuice]

PRAYING we're able to fleece someone into taking Ayton off our hands this offseason

[kennydorglas]

PRAYING we're able to fleece someone into taking Ayton off our hands this offseason

and to think we were THIS close to land Sabonis for him.
oh boy

[starbosa10]

PRAYING we're able to fleece someone into taking Ayton off our hands this offseason

and to think we were THIS close to land Sabonis for him.
oh boy

Sabonis or Turner would've been amazing

[BobbieL]

PRAYING we're able to fleece someone into taking Ayton off our hands this offseason

and to think we were THIS close to land Sabonis for him.
oh boy

Sabonis or Turner would've been amazing

I cannot recall last summer but I am not sure the Pacers were offering Turner for Ayton in an S&T. I think anybody would do that deal today

Just have to hope the Suns find a sucker: Detroit, Charlotte, maybe Dallas - to take him. Detroit just traded for Wiseman but would they try Bogdo and Wiseman for Ayton?

[RayLight]

and to think we were THIS close to land Sabonis for him.
oh boy

Sabonis or Turner would've been amazing

I cannot recall last summer but I am not sure the Pacers were offering Turner for Ayton in an S&T. I think anybody would do that deal today

Just have to hope the Suns find a sucker: Detroit, Charlotte, maybe Dallas - to take him. Detroit just traded for Wiseman but would they try Bogdo and Wiseman for Ayton?

Bogdanovic, Wiseman and Stewart for Ayton and Shamet is a dream for me.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

?t=XGyW1wj2iKBwtgMoxWxLiA&s=19

Jesus Booker, also jfc Ayton

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[sunskerr]

Sabonis or Turner would've been amazing

I cannot recall last summer but I am not sure the Pacers were offering Turner for Ayton in an S&T. I think anybody would do that deal today

Just have to hope the Suns find a sucker: Detroit, Charlotte, maybe Dallas - to take him. Detroit just traded for Wiseman but would they try Bogdo and Wiseman for Ayton?

Bogdanovic, Wiseman and Stewart for Ayton and Shamet is a dream for me.

Stewart is ok but a post defender he is not right now. Still very young and could develop in that regard, and the shooting is nice.

I prefer however to send Ayton to NYK for Mitch Rob (or Hartenstein...whomever is better) and Quickley, who imo massively compliment Book and KD with their defense. Quickley also gives us an option to replace Paul as he is stuck behind Brunson.

Also look to see if anything happens with Robinson Earl as he could be a good bench center. He might be available with the OKC front court depth they have.

[BobbieL]

I cannot recall last summer but I am not sure the Pacers were offering Turner for Ayton in an S&T. I think anybody would do that deal today

Just have to hope the Suns find a sucker: Detroit, Charlotte, maybe Dallas - to take him. Detroit just traded for Wiseman but would they try Bogdo and Wiseman for Ayton?

Bogdanovic, Wiseman and Stewart for Ayton and Shamet is a dream for me.

Stewart is ok but a post defender he is not right now. Still very young and could develop in that regard, and the shooting is nice.

I prefer however to send Ayton to NYK for Mitch Rob (or Hartenstein...whomever is better) and Quickley, who imo massively compliment Book and KD with their defense. Quickley also gives us an option to replace Paul as he is stuck behind Brunson.

Also look to see if anything happens with Robinson Earl as he could be a good bench center. He might be available with the OKC front court depth they have.

Not sure the Knicks work as a trade partner from a cap perspective as Ayton is 33m and MRob is like 16 and Hartenstein half that

I think if not Dallas for Kyrie - I think Detroit might be a decent fit for Ayton

[WeekapaugGroove]

Booker to Ayton after 5 years and needing him in a tough spot last night

https://youtu.be/UsjoFZEwAyI

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[Ghost of Kleine]

and to think we were THIS close to land Sabonis for him.
oh boy

Sabonis or Turner would've been amazing

I cannot recall last summer but I am not sure the Pacers were offering Turner for Ayton in an S&T. I think anybody would do that deal today

Just have to hope the Suns find a sucker: Detroit, Charlotte, maybe Dallas - to take him. Detroit just traded for Wiseman but would they try Bogdo and Wiseman for Ayton?

With Detroit, The reason that I mentioned an Ayton trade with them was because they already have plenty of redundant big man options and matching expiring contracts to activate swap for Ayton, including some that would address our positional depth concerns. Now there wouldn't be any draft assets available this summer for inclusion really but they still have reasonable depth pieces and are looking to take the next jump to actually making the playoffs for their young core to garner the resulting experience.

For me personally, and at this point too, whilst not my preferred trade priority, obviously I see this as fairly palatable for us!

Phoenix/ Detroit-
Ayton/ Shamet for Burks/ Wiseman/ Hayes/ 23' 31st (Detroit 2nd ). This gives the Pistons an immediate experience upgrade from Wiseman, and would pair two of the top 3 picks from the 2018 draft together for their core! Wiseman wasn't a big time cost acquisition for them anyways, and they'll be sitting on a huge amount of cap space this summer. Getting a number 1 pick (in Ayton) for exchanging near equal salary and only giving up another yet unproven lotto big a fringe rotation player, and a multiyear unproven fringe bust project guard and a 2nd is equitable value for what Ayton and Shamet are capable of offering in a different environment.

For us, it's a "no brainer" !! We'd have a young comparable development big with potential upside on a cheaper scale deal. Burks and Hayes would equate to around 20 million in expirings to help restore our cap viability/ flexibility (buyout Paul after). And focus on revamping our roster. Or we could simply choose to trade Ayton for those three expirings and a 2nd ( 31st pick) to drastically reduce our tax restrictions. Maybe flip those expirings to Toronto for Van Vleet and Trent Jr around the deadline? Or to another team for other pieces/ assets.

Overall, my preference would be:
1- Dallas.
Ayton/ Shamet for Hardaway Jr/ Bertans/ Kleber/ McGee/ and the 10th pick in the 23' draft.
OR
Ayton for Hardaway Jr/ Kleber/ McGee/ 10th pick 23' draft.

2- Houston. (For cap reduction, young cost controlled assets, and draft picks)??
Ayton for Eason/ Martin Jr/ Washington/ 20th pick ( 2023 draft). IF Houston wants to get Ayton to pair with Harden and still keep more cap flexibility to add key pieces around Harden and Ayton, then I'd be absolutely willing to take back Porter Jr's 18 million in a trade deal. Maybe alternatively this:

Ayton/ Shamet for KPJr/ Eason/ Martin Jr/ 20th pick in the 2023 draft.

3- Charlotte ( ** IF they miss out on Wemby)
Ayton/ Shamet for Rozier/ Bouknight/ Richards or Williams ( their preference)/ 27th pick/ 39th pick in 2023 draft.
They can keep their top 3 pick to take Scoot or another guard, and us taking back comparable salary allows them to still bring back Bridges and add some other key free agent pieces!! Then Detroit as a 4th alternative option.

[bwgood77]

and to think we were THIS close to land Sabonis for him.
oh boy

Sabonis or Turner would've been amazing

I cannot recall last summer but I am not sure the Pacers were offering Turner for Ayton in an S&T. I think anybody would do that deal today

Just have to hope the Suns find a sucker: Detroit, Charlotte, maybe Dallas - to take him. Detroit just traded for Wiseman but would they try Bogdo and Wiseman for Ayton?

They were not. Because if we turned down a Turner for Ayton max S&T there is no way they would have thought it was a good idea to offer him a max deal and expect us not to match. Why would we not match a max if we wouldn't even take Turner for him?

[bwgood77]

I cannot recall last summer but I am not sure the Pacers were offering Turner for Ayton in an S&T. I think anybody would do that deal today

Just have to hope the Suns find a sucker: Detroit, Charlotte, maybe Dallas - to take him. Detroit just traded for Wiseman but would they try Bogdo and Wiseman for Ayton?

Bogdanovic, Wiseman and Stewart for Ayton and Shamet is a dream for me.

Stewart is ok but a post defender he is not right now. Still very young and could develop in that regard, and the shooting is nice.

I prefer however to send Ayton to NYK for Mitch Rob (or Hartenstein...whomever is better) and Quickley, who imo massively compliment Book and KD with their defense. Quickley also gives us an option to replace Paul as he is stuck behind Brunson.

Also look to see if anything happens with Robinson Earl as he could be a good bench center. He might be available with the OKC front court depth they have.

Why would NY send quickly for him? I'm pretty sure they are quite high on him.

[bwgood77]

Interesting..

Read on Twitter

[BobbieL]

Interesting..

Read on Twitter

Nice of Jock to stand up for him

I think fans get frustrated as we see the potential and if Ayton just plays hard and is focused - he could be stellar. It’s the inconsistency

[kennydorglas]

Jock is such a great teammate.

[Jdiddy701]

New York has a lot of role players that I can see getting for Deandre Ayton.

Toppin, Quickly, Grimes, Robinson. I would love these type of players. I also wonder if they’d give up RJ Barrett. I’m not saying all these guys are available but do think a mix of those guys may work for both teams.


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