The Official 2024 Offseason Thread

[lilfishi22]

So this isn't new news since I've have seen that reported before but doesn't this just add more credence to the idea that Sarver ultimately bought into the DA hype? McD wasn't even allowed to go see Luka (like why?) and only Sarver (and JJ) did so the only logical reason they went with DA in the end is if Sarver saw Luka in the flesh and wasn't impressed?

Not to say McD would or wouldn't have been impressed if he did see Luka in person but he didn't and Sarver did.

I also think at the time, it could be forgiven they went with the Bridges deal over SGA. I'm personally biased towards Bridges who's one of my favourite Sun of all time but I believe at the time Mikal had the slightly higher profile and was mocked to go in the top 10 by most scouts whereas SGA was teetering on top 10. SGA was seen has being a bit like a Rondo/Livingston type of potential and didn't necessarily have this MVP level potential he has today. I think you could've gone with either of them there.

The other thing that is rarely brought up and I think made all the sense in the world to me at the time was that we had Igor Kokoškov as a coach. He would have been the best transition for Luca to play here. I personally thought that was the entire play in hiring him as coach and was shocked we did not get Luca. Now I do think Igor Kokoškov was a good X and O's coach but could not get respect in the locker room. If he was paired up with Luca they would have both high higher chances of success. Could of Should of, but having Igor Kokoškov as a coach at the time is hardly brought up and had a strong connection to Luca. What do you think?

This is exactly right! The Kokoskov signing by McD was in large part for that exact strategized outcome initially! And the whole reason that Sarver didn't allow McD to even go and watch him is just the same practice as everything else we've come to know with Sarver. He wouldn't let his people actually do their jobs and wanted "a puppet GM' in place to insulate his decisions that he himself made because he again didn't trust any of his employees and believed that he himself knew better than everyone else and always had the final say in all decisions with everything!! It's really not that hard to see what was really going on behind the scenes when all the numerous reports come out establishing patterns of behavior and habitual tendencies.

1- McD hired Igor Kokoskov. It was allowed only because Kokoskov came cheaply and we were rebuilding anyways and not yet really competing. But for McD, his strategy was to have the corresponding coach in place for such a fitting pick.

2- McD then begins to formulate his plan to scout and draft Luka who fits ideally with the coach he hired for this very purpose. And we're in the perfect position to draft Luka (at the time) at the top of the lottery too.
https://www.nba.com/news/phoenix-suns-hire-igor-kokoskov-official-release

3- Sarver (always the businessman/ banker seeking personal profits above all else) starts getting pressure from his fellow alumni boosters/ donors with deep pockets wanting him to force the Ayton pick at #1 because it obviously promotes U of A bigtime as producing a #1 pick in the NBA with higher level recruiting/signings. Also helps the university make immense sales on merchandise and other promotions too. Add in the Arizona "hometown connection" sell with the fanbase and now Sarver is seeing dollar signs like Scrooge McDuck getting all tingly!!
https://www.abc15.com/sports/sports-blogs-local/espn-details-suns-owners-yelling-berating-of-coaches-front-office
(Pay close attention to the part of the article wherein it mentions his being a U of A Alumn). Again, money to be made from catering to the alumni/ boosters that we're pressuring him to draft Ayton. IF it was true that McD himself wanted Ayton, and he made the pick and was not overruled by Sarver (for business interests, then why was there such a contentious feud between them at that time post-draft before he was fired? But you know who wasn't fired........... Sarvers' puppet mouthpiece GM James Jones who went with Sarver to look at Luka (for optics) but never had any intention of drafting him over Ayton regardless.

4- McD on the other hand is adamant about scouting his planned option and going overseas to get more accurate views and possible interaction, But as with everything we know of Sarver's "iron-fisted" nature, McD is shut down by Sarver himself. Now Sarver and his puppet GM Jones can go over (FOR OPTICS AT THE TIME) and check out Luka but with no real intention of taking him anyway because Sarver is always about personal profits (lining his pockets) first. And he figured he'd stand to make much more money from the boosters and kickbacks, side deals, etc of a "hometown pick" than some overseas prospect. Especially when overseas prospects weren't really popular/ trending yet in the NBA. Remember, Sarver believes he was smarter at business and everything else compared to his employees or even established experts.

5- The Sarver/McD feud more openly begins and rapidly escalates from here!! And Ryan McDonough is fired via telephone.

July 7th, 2018 right after the draft!! What do you suppose McD and Sarver were so heated about? Might it have been over Sarver possibly ordering him to not go scout/interview Luka because those reports would've gotten out about his preference? And then Sarver (having the final say in all decisions) choosing Ayton over McDs' strong endorsement of Luka? And because Mcdonough wouldn't back down to him on this, Sarver fired him only months later with intentions of installing his "yes man" Jones who wouldn't challenge any of his decisions.

Now as for the Shai for Bridges draft day trade McD supposedly had in place but was shut down by Sarver, of course, it's speculation at best, but then again, if you look at the patterns both professionally and behaviorally of Saver (per numerous reports/ etc) it's again not hard to delineate the probable truth in this circumstance either.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/report-suns-owner-robert-sarver-overruled-draft-night-trade-for-shai-gilgeous-alexander

Bob Young of The Athletic:

It’s worth noting that the Suns wouldn’t be in this fix if Robert Sarver, the club’s managing partner, had not reportedly overruled his then-general manager, Ryan McDonough, on draft night.

McDonough reportedly planned to package the club’s pick from Milwaukee and a player taken with the 16th pick to move up and draft Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, a point guard from Kentucky.

When Philadelphia offered the rights to Mikal Bridges for the rights to Zhaire Smith and Miami’s unprotected 2021 first-round pick, Sarver pushed for that deal. So the Suns moved up six spots to add their fourth young wing player.

Watch on YouTube

(2-minute video breakdown of Sarver Overruling McDs' plan that was almost finalized to get Shai here with Booker instead of Bridges but was shut down by Sarver himself dramatically).

It's funny to me that people actually think or somehow convince themselves (after all we've learned of Sarver) that he just allowed his employees to make independent decisions (especially huge ones like the franchises' first ever/only #1 pick and other big decisions with Sarver clearly having the final say, displaying a long documented history of "power playing" his authority of his employees, even berating and micromanaging them over their decisions because he believed that he was always right!! And so many reports come out that only further substantiate these patterns. Yet some people still manage to convince themselves that BOTH the Luka and Shai outcomes weren't a direct result of Saver making those calls and that he went against his well-documented nature to just sit back and let his employees make those big decisions. And you even have insiders from the Suns front office during that time collaborating on those reports too.

When you establish a pattern, and then look at the correlative outcome/ causality of those decisions made, and then hear multiple reports from people working directly with the franchise during his tenure echo those same patterns, the answers seem fairly clear as to who was really calling the shots and making those decisions that left us as we are now. And I'm not saying McD was right or a great GM or anything either. Because clearly, he wasn't. But Sarver was the architect of our franchise's biggest blunders and horrible decisions that have only further crippled this franchise from perennial championship dynasty potential. But I did like DA and Bridges well enough, and also admittedly didn't like the fit between Luka and Booker. But could you just imagine having a trio of any of:

- Doncic/Booker/Shai.
- Booker/Ayton/Shai.
- Doncic/Booker/Bridges.

I've heard the Shai thing before and all the reporting always leads back to Espo being the source so I don't buy Shai was a reality. But if it was, I still think Shai/Mikal was 50/50 at best in terms of talent coming into the league. Nobody thought SGA would be an MVP candidate

[lilfishi22]

I like those big guys especially Daron Holmes II and Missi. Great work this entire summer you've been doing, Ghost. Just like to point that out you've been the backbone of this entire discussion regarding the draft (heck maybe the board itself).

And we know Kolek is Schrodingers Nash. We draft him he's a bust, we don't and he's a great/solid player.

Happy with any of those 3 names I mentioned. I do like the big guys a bit more than Kolek though. But a draft guy I am not, so my opinion holds literally zero value, just thought I'd chime in.

This is my favourite description of Kolek so far

I still like Kolek because I think he brings that poise and all-around game we need. Athleticism, isn't that hard uncommon at this level and I feel like we can find elsewhere.

[lilfishi22]

And why are all these Grayson Allen trades popping up? Are these legit or are all these "bloggers" just trying to come up with whatever content they can?

Grayson seemed pretty damn important this year and we probably finish in the 8th or 9th seed without him. He was singularly responsible for at least 3 wins, maybe more.

Yeah you don't just dump a 45% three point shooter that has played in Bud's system before. The three players I expect most to be on this team next season are Book, Beal, and Grayson. Beal only because he is untradeable.

That's exactly why I think he's a potential trade candidate. He has real value that other teams covet

[Ghost of Kleine]

The other thing that is rarely brought up and I think made all the sense in the world to me at the time was that we had Igor Kokoškov as a coach. He would have been the best transition for Luca to play here. I personally thought that was the entire play in hiring him as coach and was shocked we did not get Luca. Now I do think Igor Kokoškov was a good X and O's coach but could not get respect in the locker room. If he was paired up with Luca they would have both high higher chances of success. Could of Should of, but having Igor Kokoškov as a coach at the time is hardly brought up and had a strong connection to Luca. What do you think?

This is exactly right! The Kokoskov signing by McD was in large part for that exact strategized outcome initially! And the whole reason that Sarver didn't allow McD to even go and watch him is just the same practice as everything else we've come to know with Sarver. He wouldn't let his people actually do their jobs and wanted "a puppet GM' in place to insulate his decisions that he himself made because he again didn't trust any of his employees and believed that he himself knew better than everyone else and always had the final say in all decisions with everything!! It's really not that hard to see what was really going on behind the scenes when all the numerous reports come out establishing patterns of behavior and habitual tendencies.

1- McD hired Igor Kokoskov. It was allowed only because Kokoskov came cheaply and we were rebuilding anyways and not yet really competing. But for McD, his strategy was to have the corresponding coach in place for such a fitting pick.

2- McD then begins to formulate his plan to scout and draft Luka who fits ideally with the coach he hired for this very purpose. And we're in the perfect position to draft Luka (at the time) at the top of the lottery too.
https://www.nba.com/news/phoenix-suns-hire-igor-kokoskov-official-release

3- Sarver (always the businessman/ banker seeking personal profits above all else) starts getting pressure from his fellow alumni boosters/ donors with deep pockets wanting him to force the Ayton pick at #1 because it obviously promotes U of A bigtime as producing a #1 pick in the NBA with higher level recruiting/signings. Also helps the university make immense sales on merchandise and other promotions too. Add in the Arizona "hometown connection" sell with the fanbase and now Sarver is seeing dollar signs like Scrooge McDuck getting all tingly!!
https://www.abc15.com/sports/sports-blogs-local/espn-details-suns-owners-yelling-berating-of-coaches-front-office
(Pay close attention to the part of the article wherein it mentions his being a U of A Alumn). Again, money to be made from catering to the alumni/ boosters that we're pressuring him to draft Ayton. IF it was true that McD himself wanted Ayton, and he made the pick and was not overruled by Sarver (for business interests, then why was there such a contentious feud between them at that time post-draft before he was fired? But you know who wasn't fired........... Sarvers' puppet mouthpiece GM James Jones who went with Sarver to look at Luka (for optics) but never had any intention of drafting him over Ayton regardless.

4- McD on the other hand is adamant about scouting his planned option and going overseas to get more accurate views and possible interaction, But as with everything we know of Sarver's "iron-fisted" nature, McD is shut down by Sarver himself. Now Sarver and his puppet GM Jones can go over (FOR OPTICS AT THE TIME) and check out Luka but with no real intention of taking him anyway because Sarver is always about personal profits (lining his pockets) first. And he figured he'd stand to make much more money from the boosters and kickbacks, side deals, etc of a "hometown pick" than some overseas prospect. Especially when overseas prospects weren't really popular/ trending yet in the NBA. Remember, Sarver believes he was smarter at business and everything else compared to his employees or even established experts.

5- The Sarver/McD feud more openly begins and rapidly escalates from here!! And Ryan McDonough is fired via telephone.

July 7th, 2018 right after the draft!! What do you suppose McD and Sarver were so heated about? Might it have been over Sarver possibly ordering him to not go scout/interview Luka because those reports would've gotten out about his preference? And then Sarver (having the final say in all decisions) choosing Ayton over McDs' strong endorsement of Luka? And because Mcdonough wouldn't back down to him on this, Sarver fired him only months later with intentions of installing his "yes man" Jones who wouldn't challenge any of his decisions.

Now as for the Shai for Bridges draft day trade McD supposedly had in place but was shut down by Sarver, of course, it's speculation at best, but then again, if you look at the patterns both professionally and behaviorally of Saver (per numerous reports/ etc) it's again not hard to delineate the probable truth in this circumstance either.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/report-suns-owner-robert-sarver-overruled-draft-night-trade-for-shai-gilgeous-alexander

Bob Young of The Athletic:

It’s worth noting that the Suns wouldn’t be in this fix if Robert Sarver, the club’s managing partner, had not reportedly overruled his then-general manager, Ryan McDonough, on draft night.

McDonough reportedly planned to package the club’s pick from Milwaukee and a player taken with the 16th pick to move up and draft Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, a point guard from Kentucky.

When Philadelphia offered the rights to Mikal Bridges for the rights to Zhaire Smith and Miami’s unprotected 2021 first-round pick, Sarver pushed for that deal. So the Suns moved up six spots to add their fourth young wing player.

Watch on YouTube

(2-minute video breakdown of Sarver Overruling McDs' plan that was almost finalized to get Shai here with Booker instead of Bridges but was shut down by Sarver himself dramatically).

It's funny to me that people actually think or somehow convince themselves (after all we've learned of Sarver) that he just allowed his employees to make independent decisions (especially huge ones like the franchises' first ever/only #1 pick and other big decisions with Sarver clearly having the final say, displaying a long documented history of "power playing" his authority of his employees, even berating and micromanaging them over their decisions because he believed that he was always right!! And so many reports come out that only further substantiate these patterns. Yet some people still manage to convince themselves that BOTH the Luka and Shai outcomes weren't a direct result of Saver making those calls and that he went against his well-documented nature to just sit back and let his employees make those big decisions. And you even have insiders from the Suns front office during that time collaborating on those reports too.

When you establish a pattern, and then look at the correlative outcome/ causality of those decisions made, and then hear multiple reports from people working directly with the franchise during his tenure echo those same patterns, the answers seem fairly clear as to who was really calling the shots and making those decisions that left us as we are now. And I'm not saying McD was right or a great GM or anything either. Because clearly, he wasn't. But Sarver was the architect of our franchise's biggest blunders and horrible decisions that have only further crippled this franchise from perennial championship dynasty potential. But I did like DA and Bridges well enough, and also admittedly didn't like the fit between Luka and Booker. But could you just imagine having a trio of any of:

- Doncic/Booker/Shai.
- Booker/Ayton/Shai.
- Doncic/Booker/Bridges.

I've heard the Shai thing before and all the reporting always leads back to Espo being the source so I don't buy Shai was a reality. But if it was, I still think Shai/Mikal was 50/50 at best in terms of talent coming into the league. Nobody thought SGA would be an MVP candidate

The source I cited was actually from Bob Young of the Athletic. But yes, Esposito has repeated these rumors it seems. Although under Sarvers' tenure during the time these things were going down, I believe Greg Esposito was an insider with connections inside the suns front office. Other than that it'll likely always be a topic of controversy that'll have oppositional opinions.

[Ghost of Kleine]

And why are all these Grayson Allen trades popping up? Are these legit or are all these "bloggers" just trying to come up with whatever content they can?

Grayson seemed pretty damn important this year and we probably finish in the 8th or 9th seed without him. He was singularly responsible for at least 3 wins, maybe more.

Yeah, you don't just dump a 45% three-point shooter that has played in Bud's system before. The three players I expect most to be on this team next season are Book, Beal, and Grayson. Beal only because he is untradeable.

That's exactly why I think he's a potential trade candidate. He has real value that other teams covet

Sure! It has to at least be somewhat tempting to consider after all we've given up and now have almost nothing else to really leverage in trades. And although his three-point shooting has been crucial to our success, IF our front office is fairly certain (or may have inside information on Hield) in that he would sign here, then that'd make Allen somewhat more expendable despite his high-level floor spacing. But even beyond that, from the mid to late 2nd possibly undrafted range you have a player like Blake Hinson who at 6'8 just happened to shoot 43% from three on 11 attempts per game just last season with limitless range and good physicality. So there would be reasonable to good replacement options for us if they chose to move on him. Are you at all familiar with Blake Hinson man?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/blake-hinson-1.html

Watch on YouTube

[RaisingArizona]

McD liked his Kentucky guards. I tend to believe that report is true.

[BobbieL]

And why are all these Grayson Allen trades popping up? Are these legit or are all these "bloggers" just trying to come up with whatever content they can?

Grayson seemed pretty damn important this year and we probably finish in the 8th or 9th seed without him. He was singularly responsible for at least 3 wins, maybe more.

I think its just bloggers with time on their hands trying to figure out moves the Suns can make
The trades by Gerald B I thought were activity trades - not accomplishment trades

they were trades to just make a trade from what I saw

suns need to keep the draft pick maybe attach Little
get a PG
and role with it

[Stix]

McD liked his Kentucky guards. I tend to believe that report is true.

Yep he liked them so much he picked Josh Jackson over De'Aaron Fox.

Oh and let's not forget Dragan Bender over Jamal Murray.

[BobbieL]

And why are all these Grayson Allen trades popping up? Are these legit or are all these "bloggers" just trying to come up with whatever content they can?

Grayson seemed pretty damn important this year and we probably finish in the 8th or 9th seed without him. He was singularly responsible for at least 3 wins, maybe more.

Yeah you don't just dump a 45% three point shooter that has played in Bud's system before. The three players I expect most to be on this team next season are Book, Beal, and Grayson. Beal only because he is untradeable.

That's exactly why I think he's a potential trade candidate. He has real value that other teams covet

But what can you get for him that makes the team better.

[Slim Charless]

And why are all these Grayson Allen trades popping up? Are these legit or are all these "bloggers" just trying to come up with whatever content they can?

Grayson seemed pretty damn important this year and we probably finish in the 8th or 9th seed without him. He was singularly responsible for at least 3 wins, maybe more.

Yeah you don't just dump a 45% three point shooter that has played in Bud's system before. The three players I expect most to be on this team next season are Book, Beal, and Grayson. Beal only because he is untradeable.

I think KD is more untouchable than Booker. Ish won't want to be made more of a fool by trading the farm for Durant, then turning around and moving him the next yr. For even less. All of them will most likely be here however.

Nurk, OTOH needs to go if we want any wiggle room and to capitalize on what is IMO his best year to date. Hopefully we can get a bunch of seconds at least, if not a 1st for him. Dream would be to somehow turn him into Giddey but Presti won't be doing that most like lol.

[Crives]

Yeah you don't just dump a 45% three point shooter that has played in Bud's system before. The three players I expect most to be on this team next season are Book, Beal, and Grayson. Beal only because he is untradeable.

That's exactly why I think he's a potential trade candidate. He has real value that other teams covet

But what can you get for him that makes the team better.

Just bloggers with nothing to talk about and trying to create content. Allen should be untouchable

[Mr Puddles]

That's exactly why I think he's a potential trade candidate. He has real value that other teams covet

But what can you get for him that makes the team better.

Just bloggers with nothing to talk about and trying to create content. Allen should be untouchable

Untouchable is a bit much, but we definitely need his three point shooting. More than anything we can realistically get in return for Allen IMO.

What I'm hoping we'll do is use our pick to trade down (Utah 29, 32?), bring back Royce O'Neal and work the vet minimum market to get CP3 or Cam Payne, Daniel Theis and Bol. O'Neal would be my trade deadline tradable asset then, not Allen.

If somehow we can turn our '31 pick into Walker Kessler (little + pick), or package 29 and Nurkic for DFS, I'd be all for it but both trades are too lobsided in our favor IMO.

[Crives]

But what can you get for him that makes the team better.

Just bloggers with nothing to talk about and trying to create content. Allen should be untouchable

Untouchable is a bit much, but we definitely need his three point shooting. More than anything we can realistically get in return for Allen IMO.

What I'm hoping we'll do is use our pick to trade down (Utah 29, 32?), bring back Royce O'Neal and work the vet minimum market to get CP3 or Cam Payne, Daniel Theis and Bol. O'Neal would be my trade deadline tradable asset then, not Allen.

If somehow we can turn our '31 pick into Walker Kessler (little + pick), or package 29 and Nurkic for DFS, I'd be all for it but both trades are too lobsided in our favor IMO.

We really just have to see who is there at 22.. could easily have someone unexpected that a team like Utah or NY is willing to trade up for and overpay

[lilfishi22]

Yeah you don't just dump a 45% three point shooter that has played in Bud's system before. The three players I expect most to be on this team next season are Book, Beal, and Grayson. Beal only because he is untradeable.

That's exactly why I think he's a potential trade candidate. He has real value that other teams covet

But what can you get for him that makes the team better.

My thinking is that we have a good wing who can shoot 3's, play D and could start for us in O'Neal. It's great to have depth but if we can get a solid PG which ew currently have zero of, it's not a bad trade off. Ultimately, we can't make trades with players people don't value and Grayson is valuable so logically, he has to be considered

[lilfishi22]

I've heard the Shai thing before and all the reporting always leads back to Espo being the source so I don't buy Shai was a reality. But if it was, I still think Shai/Mikal was 50/50 at best in terms of talent coming into the league. Nobody thought SGA would be an MVP candidate

The source I cited was actually from Bob Young of the Athletic. But yes, Esposito has repeated these rumors it seems. Although under Sarvers' tenure during the time these things were going down, I believe Greg Esposito was an insider with connections inside the suns front office. Other than that it'll likely always be a topic of controversy that'll have oppositional opinions.

Espo has been parroting it for years as if it was fact and as if he was the source. BW mentioned this already and if I recall the sequence of events, it just doesn't make sense for that deal to not only be on the table but was basically a done deal. I remmeber seeing the report when it came out and I was flabbergasted but once more information came out around the sequencing, it just didn't seem possible.

Does that mean Sarver didn't shout at McD in the background of a phone call? No, I imagine it's likely happened more than once over his tenure with the Suns but I don't buy that a trade was a done deal an Sarver killed that deals specifically

This has all been mentioned before and the Shai stuff is incorrect...I have some inside sources (in the room)...we didn't even KNOW we could get Bridges until we were on the clock at 17 about ready to send in our pick of DiVincenzo...Gambo even said it's the pick..and last second Philly called us and traded Bridges because Smith was available. Everyone was surprised that they got the call, because Philly had turned down the offer AT #10 when they were on the clock. Shai was not taken until a couple picks later. We did not think there was any chance we could get Bridges after he was drafted. It doesn't even make sense. This is all coming from McD trying to spin something or someone that was close to McD believing him or maybe who worked under him and was let go.

I know they initially wanted to try and trade for Shai earlier, by getting a pick in the top 10, but they were turned down. If there was an offer that we could have made at 12 or whenever it was, they would have taken it. Bridges was gone at that point. This "rumor" has been going around forever but it's BS. I can't stand Sarver but it's simply not the case.

[RaisingArizona]

McD liked his Kentucky guards. I tend to believe that report is true.

Yep he liked them so much he picked Josh Jackson over De'Aaron Fox.

Oh and let's not forget Dragan Bender over Jamal Murray.

Good point but Archie Goodwin, Tyler Ulis, and Brandon Knight all were. I don't know. Bender and Jackson were all mocked to be picked where they were.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I've heard the Shai thing before and all the reporting always leads back to Espo being the source so I don't buy Shai was a reality. But if it was, I still think Shai/Mikal was 50/50 at best in terms of talent coming into the league. Nobody thought SGA would be an MVP candidate

The source I cited was actually from Bob Young of the Athletic. But yes, Esposito has repeated these rumors it seems. Although under Sarvers' tenure during the time these things were going down, I believe Greg Esposito was an insider with connections inside the suns front office. Other than that it'll likely always be a topic of controversy that'll have oppositional opinions.

Espo has been parroting it for years as if it was fact and as if he was the source. BW mentioned this already and if I recall the sequence of events, it just doesn't make sense for that deal to not only be on the table but was basically a done deal. I remmeber seeing the report when it came out and I was flabbergasted but once more information came out around the sequencing, it just didn't seem possible.

Does that mean Sarver didn't shout at McD in the background of a phone call? No, I imagine it's likely happened more than once over his tenure with the Suns but I don't buy that a trade was a done deal an Sarver killed that deals specifically

This has all been mentioned before and the Shai stuff is incorrect...I have some inside sources (in the room)...we didn't even KNOW we could get Bridges until we were on the clock at 17 about ready to send in our pick of DiVincenzo...Gambo even said it's the pick..and last second Philly called us and traded Bridges because Smith was available. Everyone was surprised that they got the call, because Philly had turned down the offer AT #10 when they were on the clock. Shai was not taken until a couple picks later. We did not think there was any chance we could get Bridges after he was drafted. It doesn't even make sense. This is all coming from McD trying to spin something or someone that was close to McD believing him or maybe who worked under him and was let go.

I know they initially wanted to try and trade for Shai earlier, by getting a pick in the top 10, but they were turned down. If there was an offer that we could have made at 12 or whenever it was, they would have taken it. Bridges was gone at that point. This "rumor" has been going around forever but it's BS. I can't stand Sarver but it's simply not the case.

Just things we may never truly know if they were legitimate or not. And I'm not choosing to view Espo as the holy grail of reputable sources by any means either, or discount BWs claim of sources either. But I am saying that it obviously wasn't only Espo saying these things independently of others, as apparently it's been mentioned separately elsewhere too.

And for my part, I do trust what details I've come to know of Sarver and his reported behavioral tendencies. Now this may not make this Shai trade rumor true or wholly accurate either. But just the same, I can't completely dismiss it knowing our franchise's absurdly terrible luck and choices made under his control either.

With Sarver, even the most maddeningly depressing outcomes that'd other seem an impossibility can actually find their way to legitimate considerations at times. So unlikely or not this specific point of discussion I believe will remain a potential matter of oppositional perspective?? At least until further details emerge if ever.

[Fo-Real]

[quote="bwgood77"

Same could be said about Nurk. Both were very important in the regular season, but nowhere to be found during the playoffs.

Not showing up for the playoffs but were big in the regular season. Keep in mind, this years playoffs were 4 games. Not a big sample size compared to the season.

Nurk has been **** way before we got swept by the Wolves.

I disagree flat out. Also in comparison to Ayton who we NEEDED to get rid of. He was a positive influence on the team, makes half the money, played in more games and the difference in production was they averaged about the same rebounds,
while Ayton put up just over 16 points per and Nurk put up just over 10, while taking less shots. Nurk was a quality center for us, just didn't produce in the playoffs for reasons still undetermined. We needed a quality rim running big off the bench to be a hybrid C\pf for games where Nurk was too big and slow to match up and thats the front offices fault. He was a breath of fresh air against bigger centers who ALWAYS gave us problems like Jokic and Valanciunas, he battled them instead of us being pushed around like always. Eubanks failed us as the back up C and we should have had another option to fill that role.

[Stix]

McD liked his Kentucky guards. I tend to believe that report is true.

Yep he liked them so much he picked Josh Jackson over De'Aaron Fox.

Oh and let's not forget Dragan Bender over Jamal Murray.

Good point but Archie Goodwin, Tyler Ulis, and Brandon Knight all were. I don't know. Bender and Jackson were all mocked to be picked where they were.

I think Fox is the main one. I remember Sarver actually wanting him and it was like the only time I agreed with Sarver.

[BobbieL]

But what can you get for him that makes the team better.

Just bloggers with nothing to talk about and trying to create content. Allen should be untouchable

Untouchable is a bit much, but we definitely need his three point shooting. More than anything we can realistically get in return for Allen IMO.

What I'm hoping we'll do is use our pick to trade down (Utah 29, 32?), bring back Royce O'Neal and work the vet minimum market to get CP3 or Cam Payne, Daniel Theis and Bol. O'Neal would be my trade deadline tradable asset then, not Allen.

If somehow we can turn our '31 pick into Walker Kessler (little + pick), or package 29 and Nurkic for DFS, I'd be all for it but both trades are too lobsided in our favor IMO.

I agree that Allen is not untouchable. Hell , nobody on the roster is untouchable to me. But based on the Gerald B trades - he is making a trade to do something. Not get better. But pretend they are trying to get better by doing something

I agree with you - trade down from 22 or whatever and maybe get a late first or two seconds. Keep O'Neale, keep Allen and see what you have. Especially if you are keeping Beal Durant and Booker

The way to this team getting better, might not be short term but long term - is moving Durant. But as was said, Ishbia won't want to eat a plate a crow. I would even be open to moving Beal for the right trade- cut your losses but I doubt there is a taker Booker - I would trade him too if need be. Trading Nurkic, O'Neale , Little or Allen is just making trades to make a trade.