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2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick!

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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1681 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2019 4:45 am

nevetsov wrote:Actually I think it's going to be interesting to see how the AD thing plays out.

His two biggest lottery suitors (NYK and LAL) both ended up with comparable picks (3, 4). So neither really got a leg up on the other in the lottery with respect to added assets.

Depending on what NOP wants, they could really play them against each other (with BOS in the mix as well).

For example, say Dave Griffin likes another top 10 prospect, and says he wants another pick in lieu of their young assets.

You might see LAL and NYK looking to flip their young talent (DSJ, Ball etc) for a pick like ours.

Going to be interesting.


You make some very good points man, However, I personally don't see Boston trading for AD with Irving leaving, As they must surely be aware that he won't resign with them IF irving is gone, And it'll just be him as the only star having to now carry the team.

Also, I'm sure that Lebron has been on the phone, giving Davis " Pillow Talk about how Irving is already going to rejoin him there, and that he's the final piece to the big 3 in lala land. :nonono:
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1682 » by jcsunsfan » Wed May 15, 2019 4:56 am

The rule changes in the lottery are not some big conspiracy. If we want to know why the rule changed we need to look at our own team. The blatant tanking by the Suns and Sixers ( and other teams) made for a more inequitable draft. Ideally, the worst team should have tried to win, and would be rewarded with the first pick. Game the system and they change the game. It’s the way it is.


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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1683 » by Slim Charless » Wed May 15, 2019 5:01 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
Young gun 6 wrote:I know a few on here want Clarke. I’ve seen him on two mocks at 18 and 24.

If that’s who we are wanting surely we trade down and pick up some assets instead of reaching at 6.


That works in football but less so in basketball. All it takes is 1 team to lose him and there aren't a ton of rounds and players so you don't have a ton of things to trade with. Most teams value their pick over moving down.

IIIRC Clarke has a higher PER in college this season that only Zion and Anthony Davis have accomplished before.

He's also a freak athlete so while older, his ceiling is as high as any non-Zion / Morant player in this draft. He has to fix his shot, but frankly if that wasn't an issue he'd be going #2.

I don't mind trading the pick for the right player, but Clarke is a defensive monster and I don't think we'll be getting any PF as good defensively as him in FA since Klieber will stay. I'd rather just take him. He can help us win now. Sign a PG or use the Bucks pick to get one. Don't reach for a bad PG with Clarke on the table. I'd only risk moving down maybe 1 spot or 2 to get more assets, and I'd have to be certain he'd still be there.


He's older but that's even necessarily a bad thing on a Suns team that's so young. Plus watching Gonzaga this year he was really that teams MVP, not Hachimura. They wouldn't have made remotely as far as they did without Clarke. He's roughly the same age as Booker and would probably add some much needed maturity into that locker room. Plus his help D with blocks is fantastic and would much use if Ayton cant pick up his game some.

Hopefully if they grab him they can move 1 of our wings along with that MIL pick for a vet PG. Its not Zion but that's not a bad way to go into the new season.
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1684 » by lilfishi22 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:03 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
nevetsov wrote:Actually I think it's going to be interesting to see how the AD thing plays out.

His two biggest lottery suitors (NYK and LAL) both ended up with comparable picks (3, 4). So neither really got a leg up on the other in the lottery with respect to added assets.

Depending on what NOP wants, they could really play them against each other (with BOS in the mix as well).

For example, say Dave Griffin likes another top 10 prospect, and says he wants another pick in lieu of their young assets.

You might see LAL and NYK looking to flip their young talent (DSJ, Ball etc) for a pick like ours.

Going to be interesting.


You make some very good points man, However, I personally don't see Boston trading for AD with Irving leaving, As they must surely be aware that he won't resign with them IF irving is gone, And it'll just be him as the only star having to now carry the team.

Also, I'm sure that Lebron has been on the phone, giving Davis " Pillow Talk about how Irving is already going to rejoin him there, and that he's the final piece to the big 3 in lala land. :nonono:

I can see it both ways for Boston. If I were them, I would be more than happy to rebuild with salary coming off the books via Kyrie and Horford over the next two seasons and they still have a solid young core of Tatum, Brown, Smart and whatever they have in Hayward. They also have like 3 picks in this draft which I assume they could use move up for a player they like.

But again they could go all in and move some of those young guys (plus picks) for AD and now they are closer to a veteran team that is more focused on winning a title. Ainge thinks Kyrie would resign if they got AD and I think I believe him. To me, their chemistry struggles appear to be between their young guys who have lost minutes and their older players who are just focused on competing. I think the calculus changes if they are all together. If Ainge stands pat, he loses Kyrie. But if he makes the trade, they could potentially keep both

I think Ainge is more inclined to go all in
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1685 » by AtheJ415 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:24 am

http://www.tankathon.com/players/brandon-clarke

People need to look at Clarke's strengths and weaknesses according to the numbers.
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Ball Grabbin' starts at 5:30 AZT TODAY! 

Post#1686 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2019 5:28 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Didn't think you were part of the conspiracy crew too

The problem is you can ALWAYS create a story or narrative around why something happens. Always. Why did the Suns get Ayton last year? Oh it's to keep us away from Zion. Why give the smallest market in the league the most marketable player since Lebron? Uhhh....because....it makes them a slightly bigger market? It would make so much more sense to give that pick to the Knicks and the odds were already in their favor.

You can literally create a narrative around anything to make it look like a conspiracy.



C'mon Ghost, you're better than that.


It's not even that we fell to 6th man that gets me honestly. It's just that it's obvious to me, even though not that obvious to others, because it's always the big market money making teams like the Lakers that miraculously get bailed out in the draft.

You know it's hard enough for small market teams trying to compete in free agency against much bigger markets.

But to change the draft rules ( by the league office) to try and mask their intent to control where the top prospects go, in order to influence and maintain marketing profits and tv revenue for bigger markets continually is disengenous, and unethical as a business model.

But i do understand, in that's what it's all about, Marketing and profits.

And honestly, The media was making it far too obvious about Zion. So of course the league isn't going to make it so blatantly obvious as to give New York Zion.

The Lakers needed the Pels to get Zion, in order for the Pels to be more open to finally trading Davis to LA.

And New York still got Barrett, as they already new that Durant was intent on signing there. So having in having Durant/ and Barrett and another max spot, they could easily still get Kemba too.

Both big Markets gets advanced.

Memphis was just placed in the top 3, as compensation for being willing to move Conley. Most likely to Boston.

To help them also remain relevant. And also in rebuilding from moving Conley, ensures that Boston will likely get a top 3 pick from Memphis, that they can use on Wiseman( The next Anthony Davis) and rebuild super fast.

Bottom line, this was set up by the league to get the Lakers/ Davis deal done. And to compensate the Pels for the whole fiasco too.

It's basically the league realizing that their favorite money making franchise is in total disarray currently.

And No big names are wanting to come there. So they're once again bailing them out with Davis. To help get their top money making market back on track.

Just good business. Just wait till the draft and see if I'm right???.........As for us getting Ayton, two things:

First, Ayton to Phoenix was a feel good marketing story for the league with him being from Phoenix.

Second, The Flakers were still heavily favored ( expected) to be getting Davis at that time, along with other big names too back then.

So the league wasn't needing to intervene on their behalf.

It's only after they both botched the Davis trade and fell out of the playoffs that they ONCE AGAIN miraculously defied the odds to rise back up to the top end of the lottery. ( Why not one of the Hawks/ Wizards/ Timberwolves honestly???)

Simple, Because they're not the Big market Lakers!

The league positioning the exact team that needs compensation in order to consider trading Davis sooner than July being the Pels.

Now in getting Zion, exactly the perfect prospect that would cushion them in exchange for being willing to move Davis, along with the Lakers getting a top 4 pick too( added sweetener for the trade!)

Is setting them up perfectly for the Davis trade to finally go through.

The NBA, as a multi- billion dollar business entity isn't going to realistically leave anything this marketable up to chance.

Again, you can literally write anything (with zero actual evidence) to fit a narrative you want to project.

The phrase 'defying odds' doesn't mean there was human intervention. Odds are defied on a daily basis. Someone mentioned the Lakers had like a 2-3% chance of moving up to the top 4, they did it. It's crazy and I'm sure it makes you feel better to know it wasn't just dumb luck but something more sinister occurred for it to happen but the chances of them winning is a hell of a lot higher than those stories of people who rarely play the lottery, picks up a lotto ticket and somehow wins hundreds of millions of dollars. It happens and just because there's a low chance of it happening doesn't mean something sinister or planned had to have occurred for it to take place.

Seriously it's ridiculous. Let's say the draft went like this

#1 Bulls - In need of a true star (like most lotto teams), have a good core, is a big market that suits Zion
#2 Cavs - "too obvious" to give them the #1 pick since they got the #1 pick the last time Lebron left so #2 is what they get. RJ has star potential in him and Cleveland needs stars.
#3 Suns - Suns couldn't get the #1 pick because we already won it (even though statistically, it's irrelevant) last year and it would obvious be a rig job if we got two #1 picks in a row and Morant is the perfect fit. Even though the league hates Sarver, the NBA still wants to revitalize the image of the once glorious Suns and it's also good for the league.
#4 Knicks - They slide out of the top 3 but since they are moving the pick anyway for stars, the NBA gives them just enough to do a S&T for a Kemba or Kyrie
#5 Mavs (keep their pick) - Helps another mid-large market continue adding to their core but also give them S&T options whereas they wouldn't have a pick otherwise. Clear rig job after lucking into a Luka trade last season and since KP is a question market with his injury and off-court issues, the NBA is just giving them an extra helping hand.

Give me literally any team, where they land on arbitrary spot in the draft and I'll make up a story that involves conspiracies, the NBA, lottery rigging and I'll even throw in the Illuminati to spice it up and REALLY give it some legs


With respect man, A couple of points:

It's important to remember that this is a business, And in any business, The greatest benefit comes in ensuring the profitability and overall sustainability of the biggest markets, As they obviously have the largest number of fans and as a result,

The greatest potential to add to the overall TV revenue and marketing sales for the NBA'S overall profit margin obviously.

So that alone is a very legitimate motivator. Now again, Consider the teams that moved up, And the obvious vested assets and interests involved, prior to heading into free agency:

1- The Pels: The whole Laker Fiasco was an embarrassment to the league. And with the trade failing to occur,

The result is the Lakers missing the playoffs AND becoming dysfunctional and losing viability( means losing money as the league's long time "Cash Cow"!).

As they're the largest market and NBA's "Darling" of a franchise. But currently unable to attract any discernable Big Name players. The Pels are still sore over the whole Rich Paul fiasco, So how do you smooth things over, in order to get the trade done, and restore your largest markets viability???

By enticing the team that still has control of Davis with a "Generational Talent " in Zion, that ensures their franchise marketing and media interest.

Now, Why not New York you ask, Because New York already pretty much has Durant locked up.
And Having Durant and Barrett together, along with the big market draw of New York itself,

As well as another max contract slot to boot, Pretty much ensures they can get another big name, such as Kemba Walker, Who would surely like to play alongside Durant in a huge Market like theirs.

The Mavs, again aren't as big of a marketing draw as LA or New York, So therein lies my point.

It's a business model, And a very lucrative one at that. So to assume that they'd in any way elect to leave potential profits up to genuine chance is highly unrealistic.


So again man, With respect, We're just going to have to have two very differing opinions obviously , and that's fine.

But as neither perspective, can be or have yet been completely proven or discounted, It then becomes only a matter of perspective obviously for now. However, with the same respect......

There's obviously been evidence that can to a point, Substantiate both perspectives too. Otherwise there wouldn't be a continuing debate over such ideas after all these years.

In the end, I don't ask/nor do I expect anyone to subscribe to my perspective on this subject. But just because we see things differently, doesn't mean that I'm wrong anymore than you're perspective is right either.

As again neither perspectives has been irrefutably proven, even after all these years.

All we can do is see how things play out this summer, and make further assertions from that point. :wink:
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1687 » by Blonde » Wed May 15, 2019 6:00 am

Believing that the lottery is actually rigged is so childish
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Ball Grabbin' starts at 5:30 AZT TODAY! 

Post#1688 » by lilfishi22 » Wed May 15, 2019 6:03 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
It's not even that we fell to 6th man that gets me honestly. It's just that it's obvious to me, even though not that obvious to others, because it's always the big market money making teams like the Lakers that miraculously get bailed out in the draft.

You know it's hard enough for small market teams trying to compete in free agency against much bigger markets.

But to change the draft rules ( by the league office) to try and mask their intent to control where the top prospects go, in order to influence and maintain marketing profits and tv revenue for bigger markets continually is disengenous, and unethical as a business model.

But i do understand, in that's what it's all about, Marketing and profits.

And honestly, The media was making it far too obvious about Zion. So of course the league isn't going to make it so blatantly obvious as to give New York Zion.

The Lakers needed the Pels to get Zion, in order for the Pels to be more open to finally trading Davis to LA.

And New York still got Barrett, as they already new that Durant was intent on signing there. So having in having Durant/ and Barrett and another max spot, they could easily still get Kemba too.

Both big Markets gets advanced.

Memphis was just placed in the top 3, as compensation for being willing to move Conley. Most likely to Boston.

To help them also remain relevant. And also in rebuilding from moving Conley, ensures that Boston will likely get a top 3 pick from Memphis, that they can use on Wiseman( The next Anthony Davis) and rebuild super fast.

Bottom line, this was set up by the league to get the Lakers/ Davis deal done. And to compensate the Pels for the whole fiasco too.

It's basically the league realizing that their favorite money making franchise is in total disarray currently.

And No big names are wanting to come there. So they're once again bailing them out with Davis. To help get their top money making market back on track.

Just good business. Just wait till the draft and see if I'm right???.........As for us getting Ayton, two things:

First, Ayton to Phoenix was a feel good marketing story for the league with him being from Phoenix.

Second, The Flakers were still heavily favored ( expected) to be getting Davis at that time, along with other big names too back then.

So the league wasn't needing to intervene on their behalf.

It's only after they both botched the Davis trade and fell out of the playoffs that they ONCE AGAIN miraculously defied the odds to rise back up to the top end of the lottery. ( Why not one of the Hawks/ Wizards/ Timberwolves honestly???)

Simple, Because they're not the Big market Lakers!

The league positioning the exact team that needs compensation in order to consider trading Davis sooner than July being the Pels.

Now in getting Zion, exactly the perfect prospect that would cushion them in exchange for being willing to move Davis, along with the Lakers getting a top 4 pick too( added sweetener for the trade!)

Is setting them up perfectly for the Davis trade to finally go through.

The NBA, as a multi- billion dollar business entity isn't going to realistically leave anything this marketable up to chance.

Again, you can literally write anything (with zero actual evidence) to fit a narrative you want to project.

The phrase 'defying odds' doesn't mean there was human intervention. Odds are defied on a daily basis. Someone mentioned the Lakers had like a 2-3% chance of moving up to the top 4, they did it. It's crazy and I'm sure it makes you feel better to know it wasn't just dumb luck but something more sinister occurred for it to happen but the chances of them winning is a hell of a lot higher than those stories of people who rarely play the lottery, picks up a lotto ticket and somehow wins hundreds of millions of dollars. It happens and just because there's a low chance of it happening doesn't mean something sinister or planned had to have occurred for it to take place.

Seriously it's ridiculous. Let's say the draft went like this

#1 Bulls - In need of a true star (like most lotto teams), have a good core, is a big market that suits Zion
#2 Cavs - "too obvious" to give them the #1 pick since they got the #1 pick the last time Lebron left so #2 is what they get. RJ has star potential in him and Cleveland needs stars.
#3 Suns - Suns couldn't get the #1 pick because we already won it (even though statistically, it's irrelevant) last year and it would obvious be a rig job if we got two #1 picks in a row and Morant is the perfect fit. Even though the league hates Sarver, the NBA still wants to revitalize the image of the once glorious Suns and it's also good for the league.
#4 Knicks - They slide out of the top 3 but since they are moving the pick anyway for stars, the NBA gives them just enough to do a S&T for a Kemba or Kyrie
#5 Mavs (keep their pick) - Helps another mid-large market continue adding to their core but also give them S&T options whereas they wouldn't have a pick otherwise. Clear rig job after lucking into a Luka trade last season and since KP is a question market with his injury and off-court issues, the NBA is just giving them an extra helping hand.

Give me literally any team, where they land on arbitrary spot in the draft and I'll make up a story that involves conspiracies, the NBA, lottery rigging and I'll even throw in the Illuminati to spice it up and REALLY give it some legs


With respect man, A couple of points:

It's important to remember that this is a business, And in any business, The greatest benefit comes in ensuring the profitability and overall sustainability of the biggest markets, As they obviously have the largest number of fans and as a result,

The greatest potential to add to the overall TV revenue and marketing sales for the NBA'S overall profit margin obviously.

So that alone is a very legitimate motivator. Now again, Consider the teams that moved up, And the obvious vested assets and interests involved, prior to heading into free agency:

1- The Pels: The whole Laker Fiasco was an embarrassment to the league. And with the trade failing to occur,

The result is the Lakers missing the playoffs AND becoming dysfunctional and losing viability( means losing money as the league's long time "Cash Cow"!).

As they're the largest market and NBA's "Darling" of a franchise. But currently unable to attract any discernable Big Name players. The Pels are still sore over the whole Rich Paul fiasco, So how do you smooth things over, in order to get the trade done, and restore your largest markets viability???

By enticing the team that still has control of Davis with a "Generational Talent " in Zion, that ensures their franchise marketing and media interest.

Now, Why not New York you ask, Because New York already pretty much has Durant locked up.
And Having Durant and Barrett together, along with the big market draw of New York itself,

As well as another max contract slot to boot, Pretty much ensures they can get another big name, such as Kemba Walker, Who would surely like to play alongside Durant in a huge Market like theirs.

The Mavs, again aren't as big of a marketing draw as LA or New York, So therein lies my point.

It's a business model, And a very lucrative one at that. So to assume that they'd in any way elect to leave potential profits up to genuine chance is highly unrealistic.


So again man, With respect, We're just going to have to have two very differing opinions obviously , and that's fine.

But as neither perspective, can be or have yet been completely proven or discounted, It then becomes only a matter of perspective obviously for now. However, with the same respect......

There's obviously been evidence that can to a point, Substantiate both perspectives too. Otherwise there wouldn't be a continuing debate over such ideas after all these years.

In the end, I don't ask/nor do I expect anyone to subscribe to my perspective on this subject. But just because we see things differently, doesn't mean that I'm wrong anymore than you're perspective is right either.

As again neither perspectives has been irrefutably proven, even after all these years.

All we can do is see how things play out this summer, and make further assertions from that point. :wink:

If that's the perspective you hold then fine but just because you write a lot about why each team were "given" their pick by the NBA doesn't make it true or that it could even possibly be proven. Nothing you've written nor what I've literally made up on the spot is any more grounded in truth, facts and evidence than the other and that's what I want readers to take from this
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1689 » by BurningHeart » Wed May 15, 2019 6:13 am

New Orleans should trade that hostage-taking piece of **** cancer for whatever they can get and start fresh.

Absolutely tell that guy to eat dicks.
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1690 » by ryanball » Wed May 15, 2019 6:16 am

Blonde wrote:Believing that the lottery is actually rigged is so childish


Believing an organization worth many tens of billions of dollars is leaving its fortunes to lottery balls is mature.
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1691 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2019 6:17 am

jcsunsfan wrote:The rule changes in the lottery are not some big conspiracy. If we want to know why the rule changed we need to look at our own team. The blatant tanking by the Suns and Sixers ( and other teams) made for a more inequitable draft. Ideally, the worst team should have tried to win, and would be rewarded with the first pick. Game the system and they change the game. It’s the way it is.


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You're right man, There not, it's fairly obvious as to what benefit they serve. And I also agree that it's just the way it is....

Although I wouldn't say that we were intentionally tanking either. As we obviously suffered quite a few injuries to our key players, And once those players went down, it's not like we really had any tangible depth with which to compete anyways.

Some teams are just bad, Even though they don't really want to be. But with respect to that, there's no perfect system for the draft as of yet.

As all these changes really accomplish, is to make it easier for the better teams to bow out at late in the season and have a better chance at jumping ahead of poorer teams.

In reality, all your doing is taking away yet another avenue for severely struggling teams to be able to get talented players that they otherwise couldn't get in free agency due to bigger markets outbidding or being more desirable for them.

And the unfortunately reality is that for smaller market teams such as the Suns, Cleveland, Atlanta, New Orleans, etc. The draft is unfortunately our best and most realistic Avenue for improvement.

I mean, when was the last time a big name player said......I'd really prefer to go to this smaller market struggling franchise???.......... :-?

It doesn't happen...And even with free agency, How many times have you seen a small market even with cap space, Actually be able to beat out a larger more competitive market in bidding for a potential star cornerstone player. Again it just doesn't happen often if at all.

The reality is that in which teams such as the Thunder, the Suns, Cleveland, Minnesota and even the Hawks as a recent example have come to accept.

That to be able to build a competitive team and compete against the bigger markets, it has to be through the draft.

I'm sure that if given the choice, pretty much all of these lottery teams would rather compete in the playoffs.

And their fans and owners would much rather be able to have pride in their team actually being competitive, rather than hoping for a miracle player to turn around our franchises.

But it's because of the lack of parity that all these teams struggle so much. And honestly, IF the NBA truly cared about the smaller markets no longer being consistent lottery contenders, then they'd look to change the narrative themselves.

For starters, They need to absolutely eliminate this whole Superteam and Collusion garbage. They could accomplish this quite easily if they wanted,

By capping max contracts allowed to NO MORE THAN 2 max contracts per team period, NO EXCEPTIONS!!

Along with a more stringent hard cap and much stiffer penalties for luxury tax offenders/ as well as restricting the model for team salary levels to-

2 max players/ 3 veteran level salaries( with allowable incentives contractually determined But also enforced within the confines of the labor agreement).

Veteran level salaries in the range of 5-10 million slightly above the midlevel exception for players/ then of course the biannual exceptions for bench level players and veterans minimum for 3rd string vets.

And each team can apply for endorsement deals with specific interest to that teams' Sponsorship.

The point is, If you truly want to eliminate tanking, then offer the struggling , less desirable smaller market teams better options with which to compete against these larger markets.

Again, Actually limit the number of stars allowed contractually per team, In order to eliminatethese Superteams for forming.

And quit catering to the needs of these bigger markets stars, above the smaller ones. Revenue sharing was a nice start, but it really needs to be contractually balanced out for EVERY TEAM, Including shared portions of endorsement deals that the bigger markets use as leverage.

In doing this, as much as the stars might not like it, You balance out the revenue between all the teams more equally, and thus even the playing field much more for drawing players to otherwise less desirable teams.
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1692 » by timetoshinebaby » Wed May 15, 2019 6:26 am

Obviously upset a bit as Williamson is a beast and Morant would have been nice. However, not going to complain about 6th pick. Probably able to snap up a Clarke who is actually a very good fit next to Ayton. Williamson while a beast is not as nice fit and we'd probably have to adjust more to fit him in. Not saying its not worth it but I think Clarke might surprise a few.

That being said, I suspect we will trade the pick. I think the time has come to move forward and no longer be a bottom feeder.
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1693 » by No-Man » Wed May 15, 2019 6:44 am

This is the 2nd easiest draft decision after Zion nº1

options;

trade down if you can get an offer that makes sense both in terms of the package and the guy/tier that you can target lower in the draft

trade out for future draft assets that will retain value better or maybe mean better upside

both of these depend on the offers obviously, so not entirely up to the front office, and nope, trading the pick for a veteran would not be a good option

if you stay put at 6th the decision it's fairly easy, either Brandon Clarke or Jarrett Culver, nobody else should warrant consideration

/thread
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1694 » by King Ken » Wed May 15, 2019 6:48 am

I have Garland and White rated as high as Sexton and SGA was last year so it speaks positively about the two.
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1695 » by Kerrsed » Wed May 15, 2019 7:28 am

Plot Twist: Durant will sign with New Orleans to play with Holiday and Zion. Zion will be one of the leagues most dominant players and be that on a cheap rookie scale contract for the foreseeable future.

They will then get Brook Lopez in FA with the available capspace (Bucks have to re-sign Middleton/Brogdon/Mirotic who are also Free Agents and could lose out on Lopez if the Pelican offer is too high).

The Pelicans will then flip Davis to the Knicks for Knox/SmithJr/Trier/Robinson/#3(Barrett).

Smith Jr/Holiday/Durant/Zion/Lopez ------ Jackson/Trier/Barrett/Knox/Robinson
Its #DUMPSTERFIRE SEASON! #TeamTRAINWRECK -KERRSED- The Mod, The Myth, The Legend
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1696 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2019 8:31 am

Blonde wrote:Believing that the lottery is actually rigged is so childish


As is being intentionally naive and obtuse to fairly blatant measures of profit control. Just in order to nurture a false sense of comfort.
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Ball Grabbin' starts at 5:30 AZT TODAY! 

Post#1697 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed May 15, 2019 8:46 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Again, you can literally write anything (with zero actual evidence) to fit a narrative you want to project.

The phrase 'defying odds' doesn't mean there was human intervention. Odds are defied on a daily basis. Someone mentioned the Lakers had like a 2-3% chance of moving up to the top 4, they did it. It's crazy and I'm sure it makes you feel better to know it wasn't just dumb luck but something more sinister occurred for it to happen but the chances of them winning is a hell of a lot higher than those stories of people who rarely play the lottery, picks up a lotto ticket and somehow wins hundreds of millions of dollars. It happens and just because there's a low chance of it happening doesn't mean something sinister or planned had to have occurred for it to take place.

Seriously it's ridiculous. Let's say the draft went like this

#1 Bulls - In need of a true star (like most lotto teams), have a good core, is a big market that suits Zion
#2 Cavs - "too obvious" to give them the #1 pick since they got the #1 pick the last time Lebron left so #2 is what they get. RJ has star potential in him and Cleveland needs stars.
#3 Suns - Suns couldn't get the #1 pick because we already won it (even though statistically, it's irrelevant) last year and it would obvious be a rig job if we got two #1 picks in a row and Morant is the perfect fit. Even though the league hates Sarver, the NBA still wants to revitalize the image of the once glorious Suns and it's also good for the league.
#4 Knicks - They slide out of the top 3 but since they are moving the pick anyway for stars, the NBA gives them just enough to do a S&T for a Kemba or Kyrie
#5 Mavs (keep their pick) - Helps another mid-large market continue adding to their core but also give them S&T options whereas they wouldn't have a pick otherwise. Clear rig job after lucking into a Luka trade last season and since KP is a question market with his injury and off-court issues, the NBA is just giving them an extra helping hand.

Give me literally any team, where they land on arbitrary spot in the draft and I'll make up a story that involves conspiracies, the NBA, lottery rigging and I'll even throw in the Illuminati to spice it up and REALLY give it some legs


With respect man, A couple of points:

It's important to remember that this is a business, And in any business, The greatest benefit comes in ensuring the profitability and overall sustainability of the biggest markets, As they obviously have the largest number of fans and as a result,

The greatest potential to add to the overall TV revenue and marketing sales for the NBA'S overall profit margin obviously.

So that alone is a very legitimate motivator. Now again, Consider the teams that moved up, And the obvious vested assets and interests involved, prior to heading into free agency:

1- The Pels: The whole Laker Fiasco was an embarrassment to the league. And with the trade failing to occur,

The result is the Lakers missing the playoffs AND becoming dysfunctional and losing viability( means losing money as the league's long time "Cash Cow"!).

As they're the largest market and NBA's "Darling" of a franchise. But currently unable to attract any discernable Big Name players. The Pels are still sore over the whole Rich Paul fiasco, So how do you smooth things over, in order to get the trade done, and restore your largest markets viability???

By enticing the team that still has control of Davis with a "Generational Talent " in Zion, that ensures their franchise marketing and media interest.

Now, Why not New York you ask, Because New York already pretty much has Durant locked up.
And Having Durant and Barrett together, along with the big market draw of New York itself,

As well as another max contract slot to boot, Pretty much ensures they can get another big name, such as Kemba Walker, Who would surely like to play alongside Durant in a huge Market like theirs.

The Mavs, again aren't as big of a marketing draw as LA or New York, So therein lies my point.

It's a business model, And a very lucrative one at that. So to assume that they'd in any way elect to leave potential profits up to genuine chance is highly unrealistic.


So again man, With respect, We're just going to have to have two very differing opinions obviously , and that's fine.

But as neither perspective, can be or have yet been completely proven or discounted, It then becomes only a matter of perspective obviously for now. However, with the same respect......

There's obviously been evidence that can to a point, Substantiate both perspectives too. Otherwise there wouldn't be a continuing debate over such ideas after all these years.

In the end, I don't ask/nor do I expect anyone to subscribe to my perspective on this subject. But just because we see things differently, doesn't mean that I'm wrong anymore than you're perspective is right either.

As again neither perspectives has been irrefutably proven, even after all these years.

All we can do is see how things play out this summer, and make further assertions from that point. :wink:

If that's the perspective you hold then fine but just because you write a lot about why each team were "given" their pick by the NBA doesn't make it true or that it could even possibly be proven. Nothing you've written nor what I've literally made up on the spot is any more grounded in truth, facts and evidence than the other and that's what I want readers to take from this




And I agree man. But isn't that the point that I also stated in my post above. Before listing reasons for teams getting their respective picks?

That neither of our opinions can be proven to be anything more than just exactly that at this time?

Now, As for things being proven, I believe that I also indicated that we would just have to make our own assertions post draft.

And when we see how certain situations play out, We can then make further assertions to hopefully bolster our respective views and opinions on the discussion accordingly.

As I previously stated, Differing opinions. And I'm also fine with that. Makes for more interesting discussions. :wink:
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1698 » by sunsbum » Wed May 15, 2019 8:51 am

man. I tune in to the burns and gambo show on the way to work and they are freaking the **** out. I was so excited, then they start talking about NO and im like wayment.... why you so excited for the pelicans you pin heads?! It took them another 10 minutes to break my heart and say the suns dropped to 6th.
Man clarke would be so perfect if he could shoot...can we afford to make this team even worse at the 3pt line? If we had good shooters I'd say yea lets take a chance but we need people that can put the ball in the hole from deep.

This is the first time in a long time where I really don't have much interest in what I've seen so far. Maybe after I watch some tape.. I like the Alexander Kid from VT at the end of the first.
"Mannnnn I’m like the guy that pissed this whole board off saying literally all year no Mikal, no Mikal in the KD trade."
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1699 » by BVPN » Wed May 15, 2019 8:54 am

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Blonde wrote:Believing that the lottery is actually rigged is so childish


As is being intentionally naive and obtuse to fairly blatant measures of profit control. Just in order to nurture a false sense of comfort.


The NBA draft lottery is audited by Ernst and Young, a company worth more than the NBA. They have far bigger interests that would be jeopardized by letting the NBA rig the draft.
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Re: 2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick! 

Post#1700 » by jsierra1985 » Wed May 15, 2019 10:30 am

trade the pick is a must....i laugh when i hear people say trade back for more assets as if this team hasnt has been trash for so many years already..the suns must come up with some sort of package they can (even though other than booker and i guess ayton we have no talent)to offer for a vet point guard ..we needed to come out with a top 3 pick in this draft and it didnt happen....huge blow to this team...i dont care what anyone else says..the worst case is us drafting at 6 another player that will make no damn impact and viewed as another project...im at a point were the suns need to hit free agency with intentions of giving a max deal to the best pg available even if hes not worth the max....there is no way the suns go into the season with that glaring hole at the PG spot...no way....trade that terrible 6th pick...and pray we land a big time fa

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