Potential Trade Thread

[Grots]

I know it's not likely and I guess Melo was mentioned in that podcast as the likely guy. I know that despite Whiteside's great numbers, Miami somehow, as a team plays better without him, and going small with Bosh. So maybe Howard wouldn't be their answer.

But I just can't see them having enough assets to get Melo. Whiteside is a nice piece. Perhaps if NY still wanted Dragic, but that's still not enough for Melo and they really don't have picks. I guess Dragic, Whiteside and Winslow might get them fairly close.

Not a bad young lineup for NY with Dragic as their vet leader, with Jerian Grant in the dual pg lineup, Winslow, Porzingis, Whiteside.

It'd probably be Winslow, Deng, maybe Tyler Johnson to the Knicks. I doubt Phil Jackson wants anything to do with Dragic and his terrible contract after the way he's played this year.

Melo isn't the trade asset he used to be. He's on a giant contract with a no-trade clause and he's getting older and he doesn't look like the same player after coming off knee surgery.

No way they get Melo for a package like that. That's laughable. I don't even like Melo. His fg%'s are down, but his assists and rebounds are up. I've actually thought he's played pretty well this season. You never want a guy shooting 41%, but he is ok from 3 (at least not terrible) and is pretty much, for the most part, the same player he's always been. Of course, in these days high usage+those % = losses but just in principle I can't see them taking so little. Dragic would probably be much better with the ball in his hands all the time. Whiteside would have to be in the deal I would think. With all rookie contracts, Dragic's contract isn't as bad for them as it would be for others. By the time those guys get to 2nd deals, he will be in his last year.

Also, how COULD Miami absorb Melo without someone like Dragic going out? They have to come close in matching salaries.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=onu7b64

You could swap Mcbob for Anderson, but I'm guessing Riley would rather keep McBob.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. It's only ridiculous if you look at Melo as a huge name and ignore all the context. His no-trade clause significantly reduces his value. His age reduces his value. His health concerns reduces his value. His knee surgery reduces his value. His regression reduces his value. His contract reduces his value. The Knicks are getting back one of the most hyped prospects of the draft (whether that's warranted or not), one the Celtics tried to give up a million picks to get. He and Porzingis can grow together. Tyler Johnson is young and and dirt cheap and has actually been playing better than Dragic this year. They'd be glad to get him if they could.

As for Dragic, I've never seen a player get more excuses made for him. "If only X and Y were happening then he'd be playing great, poor guy." I don't think Phil wants to take a 5 year 86 million dollar chance that if the stars align in a certain way maybe Dragic can play great again, because if it doesn't work out then his contract is unmoveable without giving things up. They already have one old overpaid foreign PG they wish they could get rid of in Calderon. But who knows, maybe he would take that chance.

Anyway, this is the Suns trade thread so I'll just stop there.

[bwgood77]

It'd probably be Winslow, Deng, maybe Tyler Johnson to the Knicks. I doubt Phil Jackson wants anything to do with Dragic and his terrible contract after the way he's played this year.

Melo isn't the trade asset he used to be. He's on a giant contract with a no-trade clause and he's getting older and he doesn't look like the same player after coming off knee surgery.

No way they get Melo for a package like that. That's laughable. I don't even like Melo. His fg%'s are down, but his assists and rebounds are up. I've actually thought he's played pretty well this season. You never want a guy shooting 41%, but he is ok from 3 (at least not terrible) and is pretty much, for the most part, the same player he's always been. Of course, in these days high usage+those % = losses but just in principle I can't see them taking so little. Dragic would probably be much better with the ball in his hands all the time. Whiteside would have to be in the deal I would think. With all rookie contracts, Dragic's contract isn't as bad for them as it would be for others. By the time those guys get to 2nd deals, he will be in his last year.

Also, how COULD Miami absorb Melo without someone like Dragic going out? They have to come close in matching salaries.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=onu7b64

You could swap Mcbob for Anderson, but I'm guessing Riley would rather keep McBob.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. It's only ridiculous if you look at Melo as a huge name and ignore all the context. His no-trade clause significantly reduces his value. His age reduces his value. His health concerns reduces his value. His knee surgery reduces his value. His regression reduces his value. His contract reduces his value. The Knicks are getting back one of the most hyped prospects of the draft (whether that's warranted or not), one the Celtics tried to give up a million picks to get. He and Porzingis can grow together. Tyler Johnson is young and and very cheap and has actually been playing better than Dragic this year. They'd be glad to get him if they could.

As for Dragic, I've never seen a player get more excuses made for him. "If only X and Y were happening and he'd be playing great, poor guy." I don't think Phil wants to take a 5 year 86 million dollar chance that if the stars align in a certain way maybe Dragic can play great again, because if it doesn't work out then his contract is unmoveable without giving things up. They already have one old overpaid foreign PG they wish they could get rid of in Calderon. But who knows, maybe he would take that chance.

Anyway, this is the Suns trade thread so I'll just stop there.

Hey, I don't think it's a bad trade, and as a matter of fact if I was the Knicks I would do it, but I can't stand Melo. I just think his perceived value is really high. I might be wrong, but it seems like people were really after him in FA just a little over a year ago. To think he's now only worth the 10th pick and throw ins seems crazy.

[thamadkant]

Regarding Rockets needs...
Beverly is the ideal PG next to Harden.. Since he plays defense and shoots 3s. Lawson was never a good idea. Harden is a Point Shooting Guard lol.


Knight would be a catch and shoot PG for Rockets so he wont get much usage with Harden... But he could come off the bench do some overlap playing time with Harden then take over when he rests.


Sounds crazy but Harden in a high tempo system could become more efficient IMO. He draws fouls almost everytime he drives. Rockets should push the ball more.. Encourage more movement towards the rim which will open up shots. In that situation with Harden as main ball handler could be a 23/7/5 guard. But Morey is stubborn.

[AtheJ415]

if i'm Morey.....

Dwight + Kieff = not a contender
Dwight + Anderson = max deal to RA when i already have D-Mo

but

Cousins + Kieff + Harden = in there
Cousins + anybody + Harden = in there

so.....

we (PHX) don't want Jones, we don't need Anderson, they want Cousins, we want Cousins, they can't get Cousins until they get rid of Dwight. but, adding Kieff to their current roster won't make them better. it might even make them worse.

so if i (Morey) want to make Houston better, i have to try for Cousins, trade Howard, or do both at the same time. everything else - like a trade for Kieff - could be centered on what i offer in a Cousins deal. also, a Howard deal would involve Houston getting a lot back. maybe Kieff becomes a piece of a huge blockbuster deal involving Cousins, Howard, and more. either way, the only way to make my team (Morey) better is by trading Howard and/or trading for Cousins, and seeing how the roster develops as a result of those moves. if he doesn't trade Dwight, and he bolts, Morey might not be able to recruit a free agent to the James Harden Misses No Less Than 15 Shots A Night show. that's why (in my opinion) Morey is 99% likely to trade him now, before he gets hurt again, and 40 games a season turns into 20.

all of that is why i doubt Houston will trade for Kieff unless they - somehow - manage to land Boogie. unless we can think of a different trade destination for Kieff - or land Boogie ourselves - i don't see Houston happening.

Detroit still makes a lot of sense, by the way. they're kind of hiding in plain sight.

Okay, but what does Houston have that could even remotely get them Cousins? Their young guys are awful asides from DMO and Jones. I like McDaniels and Harrell long-term, but them and every pick Houston has for the next 3 years with 0 protection wouldn't even be close to Cousins' value.

I agree they need to get a younger supporting star, but it's going to have to be the FA route like Dwight was.

[AtheJ415]

I think the deal ends up bigger. We end up having to pay Brewer for $8m a year. If it were just the Kieff for Jones + Brewer I would want a pick to go with it but Houston already traded next year's pick (top 14 protected) so I think the deal ends up either a later on draft pick like 2 years down the road along with the original deal. Other alternative is Kieff/Tucker/Goodwin for Brewer/Jones/Harrell/Dekker.

I'd be more than ok with the second deal I just don't understand how McD can't get somebody that at least expires for Kieff a la Ryan Anderson or something like that. Doesn't make sense for McD to encumber the team's salary cap for more years down the road on somebody who's position is likely blocked or would be blocking a young player. If Brewer plays SG he'd be blocking Knight/Booker and if he plays SF he'd be blocking Warren.

I completely agree on Brewer,and I get he'd have to be added for salary reasons. I think we need to have a 3rd team involved to dump Brewer to. If nobody wants him at all trade Brewer and the Cavs pick to someone with cap space like Philly.

[AtheJ415]

Is there a way that we could get Jones, Howard goes somewhere else, Houston gets Kieff, we get another player from somewhere?

I'm thinking Miami. Zach Lowe on his recent podcast talked about how Riley might be willing to trade Justice Winslow because Riley won't be around and doesn't care about 5 years down the road. He is desperate to win now.

But Miami would probably have to try to trade more pieces.

Something along the lines of Kieff and Whiteside to Houston, Howard to Miami, Winslow and Jones to us? I think we'd need to add more salary in some places. And it seems like we would come out very well in this deal, but I don't think it looks THAT bad for either of the other teams.

I don't know if those salaries work, but something like that would be pretty sweet.

I think we'd have to throw in a pick or 2 to get Winslow, but I'd be willing to do that. Winslow at the 2 and 3 would be ideal for this team.

[AtheJ415]

I'll add this about the rumor. Jones is going to get a lot of money in FA, but he's capped at the mini max, and I don't think you'll see him get the mini-max either. IMO, he'll probably get less than Tristan Thompson, in part due to playing time, similar to how Bledsoe's deal was structured.

Ryan Anderson very well could be maxed out. Stretch 4s are rare and he's a big one having a great year.

So, when evaluating this trade, you need to factor in that Anderson is going to get a lot more money than Jones, is 4 years older, and is an awful defender. For as good as his offensive game is, he is just as bad defensively. He is nearly the stretch 4 version of Enes Kanter. In fact, in some respects his defensive numbers are as bad. The Pelicans are actually better net rating with Asik, who I don't think any of us would want.

Jones, on the other hand, is 23 (fits our age group), athletic, still improving, can shoot 3s, has incredible handles and even leads the fast break at times in Houston, is a decent defender, rebounder, and can block shots at the 4 spot. Honestly, that fits the bill for everything we have been complaining about out of the 4 spot for a long time. He is not the offensive juggernaut Anderson is. His release and pump fake is slow, he doesn't shoot 1 legged Dirk fadeaways and the other stuff Anderson can do, but he's the 2 way player with more room to grow who fits the age window of this team.

I personally like Jones for this team. He's a good fit imo. Anderson would be too, but I'd personally rather have Jones at $15 million than Anderson at nearly $30 million. These are long-term, not short-term decisions. And I don't see the point of just letting Anderson walk if we trade for him either. At that point it's better to just trade for a draft pick or something.

[AtheJ415]

One other aspect of this, and also so I can get 5 posts in a row, Brewer is 6'9". Could we trade Tucker, start Warren, and use Brewer as a backup at the 3 spot with occasional minutes at the 2? That would allay everyone's fears of him eating minutes at the 2.

[thamadkant]

Some GM actually think Anderson is worth 30 million a year. Lol.

If so, they can have him. My thinking was at minimum he will command 15 million similar to Carroll... And at max would command 17. Basically he will get paid. But 30 million? Thats what I expect Lebron to sign for... 150-160 million for 5 years. Slightly lower than the 35 million he should command usually due to him wanting the Cavs to sign or retain the team.

[bwgood77]

I'll add this about the rumor. Jones is going to get a lot of money in FA, but he's capped at the mini max, and I don't think you'll see him get the mini-max either. IMO, he'll probably get less than Tristan Thompson, in part due to playing time, similar to how Bledsoe's deal was structured.

Ryan Anderson very well could be maxed out. Stretch 4s are rare and he's a big one having a great year.

So, when evaluating this trade, you need to factor in that Anderson is going to get a lot more money than Jones, is 4 years older, and is an awful defender. For as good as his offensive game is, he is just as bad defensively. He is nearly the stretch 4 version of Enes Kanter. In fact, in some respects his defensive numbers are as bad. The Pelicans are actually better net rating with Asik, who I don't think any of us would want.

Jones, on the other hand, is 23 (fits our age group), athletic, still improving, can shoot 3s, has incredible handles and even leads the fast break at times in Houston, is a decent defender, rebounder, and can block shots at the 4 spot. Honestly, that fits the bill for everything we have been complaining about out of the 4 spot for a long time. He is not the offensive juggernaut Anderson is. His release and pump fake is slow, he doesn't shoot 1 legged Dirk fadeaways and the other stuff Anderson can do, but he's the 2 way player with more room to grow who fits the age window of this team.

I personally like Jones for this team. He's a good fit imo. Anderson would be too, but I'd personally rather have Jones at $15 million than Anderson at nearly $30 million. These are long-term, not short-term decisions. And I don't see the point of just letting Anderson walk if we trade for him either. At that point it's better to just trade for a draft pick or something.

I agree. I hadn't really realized Anderson was THAT bad defensively, and was watching those 30 pt games he was dropping, but listening to that Zach Lowe podcast the other day and him saying he would run far away from Anderson because he would be WAY overpaid and his defense is SO terrible that it pretty much eliminates his offense is scary, especially if he is going to be paid that much.

I'd be really happy with Jones. I would love for it somehow to happen today, even if we have to take back Lawson.

[AtheJ415]

Some GM actually think Anderson is worth 30 million a year. Lol.

If so, they can have him. My thinking was at minimum he will command 15 million similar to Carroll... And at max would command 17. Basically he will get paid. But 30 million? Thats what I expect Lebron to sign for... 150-160 million for 5 years. Slightly lower than the 35 million he should command usually due to him wanting the Cavs to sign or retain the team.

You're right. $30 mill may be an exaggeration, but I fully expect him to get at least $7 mill a year more than whatever Jones get. There have been reports that the Pelicans and others think he'll get maxed. I think for a vet he's eligible for that huge max number, but I'm not a CBA wonk so I'm not sure what that is. But Anderson at $20+ mill is just not worth it at all imo. And I think he's going to get $20 mill in a world where guys like Tristan Thompson get so much even with mini-max restrictions.

[Cutter]

Any GM that pays Ryan Anderson $30m per year will quickly lose his job. The cap isn't going up that much that you can throw away 30% of your total salary cap on someone like Ryan Anderson. A $15-17m deal would be good value for him, especially if he were to remain healthy.

[nevetsov]

If we seriously wanted to develop and mentor our youth, I actually wouldn't mind one year of Joe Johnson on this team.

- All Star pedigree, just like Chandler
- Respected, hardworking vet, just like Chandler
- High bball IQ, just like Chandler
- Good shooter, solid defender
- Can play both wing positions, eg alongside all of Booker, Warren, Goodwin
- Big upgrade at the 3 from Tucker

We'd have Tyson as our vet big, mentoring Len
JJ as our vet wing, mentoring Booker, Goodwin and Warren

A year of expensive yet expiring JJ would give our young wings the opportunity to learn and position themselves to be starters next year. We can road test Booker/ JJ, JJ/ Warren, even Archie/ JJ as starters. Best 2 earn the starting gigs next year, with the 3rd as 6th man.

I just don't think we have the salary to make it work. We'd need Morris, PJ and about another $9-11m at least. Would have to be Knight (not until Jan 15th, unless we can do a non-simultaneous trade?) or Chandler (which defeats the purpose anyway).

[Saberestar]

One other aspect of this, and also so I can get 5 posts in a row, Brewer is 6'9". Could we trade Tucker, start Warren, and use Brewer as a backup at the 3 spot with occasional minutes at the 2? That would allay everyone's fears of him eating minutes at the 2.

Brewer is 6'9 ??!
If you have seen this guy playing you would know that he is 6'7" at most. And he is an skinny player, probably more than Goodwin. He can play SF some minutes here and there, but he doesn't have the strength and phisical that is needed on a constant basis.

People need to understand that NBA measurements are not the truth, a lot of players lie about his height and weight. The eye test is better to know how big they are.

[kennydorglas]

I think Tucker will be in this trade with Rockets too

[Cutter]

One other aspect of this, and also so I can get 5 posts in a row, Brewer is 6'9". Could we trade Tucker, start Warren, and use Brewer as a backup at the 3 spot with occasional minutes at the 2? That would allay everyone's fears of him eating minutes at the 2.

Brewer is 6'9 ??!
If you have seen this guy playing, even only one game, you would know that he is 6'7" at most. And he is an skinny player, probably more than Goodwin. He can play SF some minutes here and there, but he doesn't have the strength and phisical that is needed on a constant basis.

People need to understand that NBA measurements are not the truth, a lot of players lie about his height and weight. The eye test is better to know how big they are.

I thought the exact same thing as you that he was a skinny 6'7" wing. However basketball-reference has him listed at 6'9" and 186 pounds (skinny as a rail), and draftexpress has him listed at 6'8". He's a little taller than I thought, but super skinny.

[Grots]

I bet the Nets pay Ryan Anderson big money. They're desperate for talent and they can't draft for the foreseeable future.

[AtheJ415]

One other aspect of this, and also so I can get 5 posts in a row, Brewer is 6'9". Could we trade Tucker, start Warren, and use Brewer as a backup at the 3 spot with occasional minutes at the 2? That would allay everyone's fears of him eating minutes at the 2.

Brewer is 6'9 ??!
If you have seen this guy playing you would know that he is 6'7" at most. And he is an skinny player, probably more than Goodwin. He can play SF some minutes here and there, but he doesn't have the strength and phisical that is needed on a constant basis.

People need to understand that NBA measurements are not the truth, a lot of players lie about his height and weight. The eye test is better to know how big they are.

If you google Corey Brewer's height, it's 6'9" listed, and he's been measured at 6'8" at the combine with shoes. It's certainly possible he's grown an inch, but even so, at 6'8" he can play the 3. Easily.

And I get what you're saying, but it's immaterial, because if every player's listed height is exaggerated, then all of the other small forwards aren't as tall as they are listed, so the disparity in the heights evens out, even with the "eye test" relative to guys being guarded. But 6'8" with shoes is his measured height.

[gaspar]

Who cares how tall Corey Brewer is? He's a terrible basketball player on a terrible multi-year contract. You can find better players for vet minimum every year. Terrence Jones is just a guy. He's not much better than Leuer or Teletovic and much worse than motivated Keef. And he's injury prone and is a free agent this summer...

[AtheJ415]

Who cares how tall Corey Brewer is? He's a terrible basketball player on a terrible multi-year contract. You can find better players for vet minimum every year. Terrence Jones is just a gay. He's not much better than Leuer or Teletovic and much worse than motivated Keef. And he's injury prone and is a free agent this summer...

Completely disagree on Jones. Somewhat agree on Brewer. But size matters, because this is basketball.


In reality, we ought to be shooting for this trade from Houston:

Kieff, Cavs 1st for Terrence Jones, KJ McDaniels, and any other low salary player on the team (Marcus Thornton, Harrell, any of the low salaries will work).

It eliminates the whole Corey Brewer BS and gives us somebody who could actually help us longterm in McDaniels, who Houston routinely sends to the D League and can't crack the rotation.