Season Speculation, Trade Ideas and Discussion

[bwgood77]

I think Chandler makes sense to have until Bender is ready to play a little more at the 5. I don't think either Chandler or Len will be moved this year, and I think if one moves this year it would be Chandler more near the deadline. But ultimately I expect Chandler to more likely be moved next year mid season if he still is playing well or perhaps in the off season.

I mentioned this in a past post but do you think there's any thinking internally to keep Chandler around to "diminish" Len's contract year?

I mentioned this here viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1496837&p=50498441#p50495809 so yes I think there is definitely a chance that plays a part in everything. Probably not the sole reason, but maybe part of it.

[lilfishi22]

I think Chandler makes sense to have until Bender is ready to play a little more at the 5. I don't think either Chandler or Len will be moved this year, and I think if one moves this year it would be Chandler more near the deadline. But ultimately I expect Chandler to more likely be moved next year mid season if he still is playing well or perhaps in the off season.

I mentioned this in a past post but do you think there's any thinking internally to keep Chandler around to "diminish" Len's contract year?

I mentioned this here viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1496837&p=50498441#p50495809 so yes I think there is definitely a chance that plays a part in everything. Probably not the sole reason, but maybe part of it.

It would be frustrating for Len to not be able to start and be productive but what eases that mindset also is that the guy starting in front of him is grabbing 20 rebs a game.

[AtheJ415]

Are there any legs to this Noel rumor? I don't see how it fixes any problems. In fact I think it puts us in a worse position because he's another restricted free agent. We already have Len who seems to have improved.

Are you watching the games? Len has been horrible this season. I'm not exaggerating. If you want proof then see below.

This is just... This guy needs to go. Alex Len having that bad of a +/- is concerning, but i think he spends most of his time on the floor with Knight, unfortunately. Plus Len was awful to start the season, but he's been turning it around lately. But yeah, Knight by far the worst total +/-, the worst per game, and the worst per 36. There is no way the team isn't trying to tank "subtly". What can the Suns even squeeze out of another team, though?

Player Team +/- +/- Per Game +/- Per 36 Min
443 Brandon Knight PHX -214 -8.6 -12.7
442 Timofey Mozgov LAL -172 -6.6 -11.3
441 Emmanuel Mudiay DEN -162 -6.8 -8.1
439 Evan Turner POR -153 -5.7 -8.1
440 Luol Deng LAL -153 -5.7 -8.1
438 Justin Anderson DAL -143 -6.2 -11.4
437 Alex Len PHO -135 -5.6 -8.7
436 Trevor Booker BKN -128 -5.8 -7.4
435 Buddy Hield NO -127 -4.9 -9.9
434 Dario Saric PHI -124 -5.2 -7.6


EDIT: I spent a **** of time making that look pretty while avoiding doing work, and the spacing doesn't even show up after submitting. RAGE.

That is really bad. No surprise though. Len is pure garbage and down in the lower half with Knight. If you are anywhere near Knight this season then you are a terrible player that does not deserve a contract.

Mark my words. If we give Len a big contract he will be worse than Robin Lopez. He will not have any motivation and he will regress.

No. Box +/- isn't even appropriate to use over a single season imo, much less 20 games. I have watched every single play of the Suns' season, and Len is far from garbage. As a starter in particular he has played well. You can look at his efficiency gains and splits to see that his numbers and efficiency jump up across the board in the games Tyson didn't play.

[grumpysaddle]

Are there any legs to this Noel rumor? I don't see how it fixes any problems. In fact I think it puts us in a worse position because he's another restricted free agent. We already have Len who seems to have improved.

Are you watching the games? Len has been horrible this season. I'm not exaggerating. If you want proof then see below.

This is just... This guy needs to go. Alex Len having that bad of a +/- is concerning, but i think he spends most of his time on the floor with Knight, unfortunately. Plus Len was awful to start the season, but he's been turning it around lately. But yeah, Knight by far the worst total +/-, the worst per game, and the worst per 36. There is no way the team isn't trying to tank "subtly". What can the Suns even squeeze out of another team, though?

Player Team +/- +/- Per Game +/- Per 36 Min
443 Brandon Knight PHX -214 -8.6 -12.7
442 Timofey Mozgov LAL -172 -6.6 -11.3
441 Emmanuel Mudiay DEN -162 -6.8 -8.1
439 Evan Turner POR -153 -5.7 -8.1
440 Luol Deng LAL -153 -5.7 -8.1
438 Justin Anderson DAL -143 -6.2 -11.4
437 Alex Len PHO -135 -5.6 -8.7
436 Trevor Booker BKN -128 -5.8 -7.4
435 Buddy Hield NO -127 -4.9 -9.9
434 Dario Saric PHI -124 -5.2 -7.6


EDIT: I spent a **** of time making that look pretty while avoiding doing work, and the spacing doesn't even show up after submitting. RAGE.

That is really bad. No surprise though. Len is pure garbage and down in the lower half with Knight. If you are anywhere near Knight this season then you are a terrible player that does not deserve a contract.

Mark my words. If we give Len a big contract he will be worse than Robin Lopez. He will not have any motivation and he will regress.

No. Box +/- isn't even appropriate to use over a single season imo, much less 20 games. I have watched every single play of the Suns' season, and Len is far from garbage. As a starter in particular he has played well. You can look at his efficiency gains and splits to see that his numbers and efficiency jump up across the board in the games Tyson didn't play.

It is appropriate for Brandon Knight though. It just confirms the eye test.

[bwgood77]

Are there any legs to this Noel rumor? I don't see how it fixes any problems. In fact I think it puts us in a worse position because he's another restricted free agent. We already have Len who seems to have improved.

Are you watching the games? Len has been horrible this season. I'm not exaggerating. If you want proof then see below.

This is just... This guy needs to go. Alex Len having that bad of a +/- is concerning, but i think he spends most of his time on the floor with Knight, unfortunately. Plus Len was awful to start the season, but he's been turning it around lately. But yeah, Knight by far the worst total +/-, the worst per game, and the worst per 36. There is no way the team isn't trying to tank "subtly". What can the Suns even squeeze out of another team, though?

Player Team +/- +/- Per Game +/- Per 36 Min
443 Brandon Knight PHX -214 -8.6 -12.7
442 Timofey Mozgov LAL -172 -6.6 -11.3
441 Emmanuel Mudiay DEN -162 -6.8 -8.1
439 Evan Turner POR -153 -5.7 -8.1
440 Luol Deng LAL -153 -5.7 -8.1
438 Justin Anderson DAL -143 -6.2 -11.4
437 Alex Len PHO -135 -5.6 -8.7
436 Trevor Booker BKN -128 -5.8 -7.4
435 Buddy Hield NO -127 -4.9 -9.9
434 Dario Saric PHI -124 -5.2 -7.6


EDIT: I spent a **** of time making that look pretty while avoiding doing work, and the spacing doesn't even show up after submitting. RAGE.

That is really bad. No surprise though. Len is pure garbage and down in the lower half with Knight. If you are anywhere near Knight this season then you are a terrible player that does not deserve a contract.

Mark my words. If we give Len a big contract he will be worse than Robin Lopez. He will not have any motivation and he will regress.

No. Box +/- isn't even appropriate to use over a single season imo, much less 20 games. I have watched every single play of the Suns' season, and Len is far from garbage. As a starter in particular he has played well. You can look at his efficiency gains and splits to see that his numbers and efficiency jump up across the board in the games Tyson didn't play.

I doubt many guy's +/- are going to look good when playing primarily with Knight, unless Knight is on fire.

[grumpysaddle]

Are you watching the games? Len has been horrible this season. I'm not exaggerating. If you want proof then see below.



That is really bad. No surprise though. Len is pure garbage and down in the lower half with Knight. If you are anywhere near Knight this season then you are a terrible player that does not deserve a contract.

Mark my words. If we give Len a big contract he will be worse than Robin Lopez. He will not have any motivation and he will regress.

No. Box +/- isn't even appropriate to use over a single season imo, much less 20 games. I have watched every single play of the Suns' season, and Len is far from garbage. As a starter in particular he has played well. You can look at his efficiency gains and splits to see that his numbers and efficiency jump up across the board in the games Tyson didn't play.

I doubt many guy's +/- are going to look good when playing primarily with Knight, unless Knight is on fire.

Literally on fire.

[OGBAH]

Knight for Noel if we could pull off a Len for Rubio swap?

[bwgood77]

Knight for Noel if we could pull off a Len for Rubio swap?

I might do it if our medical staff signed off on Noel and it was Len for Tyus Jones instead of Rubio. I have a feeling Tyus Jones could be that guy that is an undiscovered gem and might be a little like KJ was in that way. Behind others but if given the opportunity, would prove to be better than those guys.

[carey]

I'm not Len's biggest supporter, but I'll say over the last 10 games he has looked decent out there. The numbers aren't eye popping, 9 points and 7 rebounds in 24 minutes on 48% from the field but he's also blocking 2 shots per game in those 24 minutes. I think he is going to be a 10 & 10 guy on mid 40's shooting (really wish that was better) with a couple blocks per game. That may be worth $10M/yr in the current landscape. It is NOT worth $16M/yr which someone will surely pay him this Summer.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'm not Len's biggest supporter, but I'll say over the last 10 games he has looked decent out there. The numbers aren't eye popping, 9 points and 7 rebounds in 24 minutes on 48% from the field but he's also blocking 2 shots per game in those 24 minutes. I think he is going to be a 10 & 10 guy on mid 40's shooting (really wish that was better) with a couple blocks per game. That may be worth $10M/yr in the current landscape. It is NOT worth $16M/yr which someone will surely pay him this Summer.

I think he'll get that FG% over 50 eventually, when we all agree that he should not be taking jumpers.

And I think that is certainly worth about $16 million. There just aren't that many guys in the league who can provide those numbers.

[batsmasher]

I reckon league wide Len probably has more stock than Noel right now. That's based on what Woj said about Noel on the pod a couple of days ago. Said teams who had been gathering intel on him hadn't been getting good things back.

[bwgood77]

I'm not Len's biggest supporter, but I'll say over the last 10 games he has looked decent out there. The numbers aren't eye popping, 9 points and 7 rebounds in 24 minutes on 48% from the field but he's also blocking 2 shots per game in those 24 minutes. I think he is going to be a 10 & 10 guy on mid 40's shooting (really wish that was better) with a couple blocks per game. That may be worth $10M/yr in the current landscape. It is NOT worth $16M/yr which someone will surely pay him this Summer.

I think he'll get that FG% over 50 eventually, when we all agree that he should not be taking jumpers.

And I think that is certainly worth about $16 million. There just aren't that many guys in the league who can provide those numbers.

That's funny, I was about to have the exact same response. I think he is worth $16 million in this landscape and I don't think there is any reason to assume he won't get the FG% over 50% unless he is shooting 3s or something like that.

What I find odd though is that you say that yet were advocating trading him earlier.

[bwgood77]

I reckon league wide Len probably has more stock than Noel right now. That's based on what Woj said about Noel on the pod a couple of days ago. Said teams who had been gathering intel on him hadn't been getting good things back.

Have you been looking at the trade board? A bunch of stuff regarding our centers and Noel.

[batsmasher]

I reckon league wide Len probably has more stock than Noel right now. That's based on what Woj said about Noel on the pod a couple of days ago. Said teams who had been gathering intel on him hadn't been getting good things back.

Have you been looking at the trade board? A bunch of stuff regarding our centers and Noel.

The trade board ay. A board that isn't the Suns board. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

*strolls off to the trade board*

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'm not Len's biggest supporter, but I'll say over the last 10 games he has looked decent out there. The numbers aren't eye popping, 9 points and 7 rebounds in 24 minutes on 48% from the field but he's also blocking 2 shots per game in those 24 minutes. I think he is going to be a 10 & 10 guy on mid 40's shooting (really wish that was better) with a couple blocks per game. That may be worth $10M/yr in the current landscape. It is NOT worth $16M/yr which someone will surely pay him this Summer.

I think he'll get that FG% over 50 eventually, when we all agree that he should not be taking jumpers.

And I think that is certainly worth about $16 million. There just aren't that many guys in the league who can provide those numbers.

That's funny, I was about to have the exact same response. I think he is worth $16 million in this landscape and I don't think there is any reason to assume he won't get the FG% over 50% unless he is shooting 3s or something like that.

What I find odd though is that you say that yet were advocating trading him earlier.

I'm pretty sure my posts have been more nuanced than that. I've said I don't think we can keep both him and Chandler. At $16 mil per, you get a pretty square deal with Alex. Alex and Chandler are performing at about the same level. I was wondering what we could acquire in trade, assuming that we end up with one of:

Tyson Chandler @ $13 mil + Whatever we can get for Alex
OR
Alex Len @ $16 mil + Whatever we can get for Chandler

Not so much advocating as inquiring, as I think a review of my posts would reflect.

[bwgood77]

I think he'll get that FG% over 50 eventually, when we all agree that he should not be taking jumpers.

And I think that is certainly worth about $16 million. There just aren't that many guys in the league who can provide those numbers.

That's funny, I was about to have the exact same response. I think he is worth $16 million in this landscape and I don't think there is any reason to assume he won't get the FG% over 50% unless he is shooting 3s or something like that.

What I find odd though is that you say that yet were advocating trading him earlier.

I'm pretty sure my posts have been more nuanced than that. I've said I don't think we can keep both him and Chandler. At $16 mil per, you get a pretty square deal with Alex. Alex and Chandler are performing at about the same level. I was wondering what we could acquire in trade, assuming that we end up with one of:

Tyson Chandler @ $13 mil + Whatever we can get for Alex
OR
Alex Len @ $16 mil + Whatever we can get for Chandler

Not so much advocating as inquiring, as I think a review of my posts would reflect.

Due to our cap situation I think we are fine keeping both, particularly if we don't bring back Tucker and get rid of Knight...but even with all those guys we will be under the tax. The owners are raking in dough with the new deal though just as the players are since it is a pretty even split. I don't think any teams are losing money any more unless they are way over the cap and that usually only happens with the extremely rich owners who don't really care, or for a championship favorite.

[OGBAH]

If you knew that Len is going to get 16+ mil a year would you trade him right now with Knight for B.Lopez?

[bwgood77]

If you knew that Len is going to get 16+ mil a year would you trade him right now with Knight for B.Lopez?

That's a tough one. Maybe because Lopez is only 28.

[Kerrsed]

If you knew that Len is going to get 16+ mil a year would you trade him right now with Knight for B.Lopez?

Yes, and i wouldnt think twice about it.

[carey]

If you knew that Len is going to get 16+ mil a year would you trade him right now with Knight for B.Lopez?

Not without another asset attached. Brook is a FA soon so we'd only have him for a season and a half. I want to dump Knight as much as the next guy, but for me there'd have to be some kind of pick attached even if it is way down the line and also a player like Joe Harris. Maybe figure out a way to put Tucker in the deal and have Harris back up Warren. I'd think about it and then probably pass on it in the end though. I don't know...