2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[TheLogician]

I feel like we are going to get Dragic. The Rockets trade doesn’t make much sense unless we had a couple of target PGs lined up. The Heat are probably making calls to see if anyone has a better offer for Dragic but there just really isn’t any playoff team that needs a PG. I think we’ll end up trading a protected 1st for him along with the expiring contracts of Tyson and Daniels. Possibly move Davon Reed too so they get a young player.

Dragic, along with Anderson and Ariza add quality veterans that can actually contribute to a winning culture unlike Tyson who was washed up to begin with.
Dragic / Booker / Ariza / Anderson / Ayton
Melton / Bridges / Jackson / Warren / Bender

That might actually be enough to sneak us into the playoff. Savvy veterans that bring defense (not Anderson), three point shooting, and leadership. We’ve already blown through most of our treasure chest of assets, we should accelerate this timeline as long as it doesn’t jeopardize our current youth group.

Agree 100%. Also, Reed graduated from Miami so there's already familiarity with their fan base.

[jredsaz]

I would be all in on a Warren for George Hill. Clears space for 2019. Balances the roster.

It seems like Warren for Hill would be selling low on Warren but you would gain a bunch of cap space if that is your goal next year.

We already will have between 23 and 33 million if we waive Anderson.

More cap space is better unless TJ figured out how to shoot 3 at 35% with consistent attempts and he can better space the floor.

[gaspar]

I can't think of many things that would make me stop watching the Suns. Trading for Goran Dragic would be the top of that list.

[Qwigglez]

I can't think of many things that would make me stop watching the Suns. Trading for Goran Dragic would be the top of that list.

I don't understand why so many dislike Dragic this much. He was my favorite player in the 2010 playoffs against the Spurs. He played at an all-star level when we first signed him when we had a terrible team. Why does he get so much hate?

[bwgood77]

It seems like Warren for Hill would be selling low on Warren but you would gain a bunch of cap space if that is your goal next year.

We already will have between 23 and 33 million if we waive Anderson.

More cap space is better unless TJ figured out how to shoot 3 at 35% with consistent attempts and he can better space the floor.

Well, if you trust McD with cap space. Trading Warren would give us $35-$45 million in potential cap space. I hate that he can't shoot the 3 but he has still been one of our best players the past couple of years. I think there's a decent chance he will get to a respectable level from 3 and is improving as a defender. I don't know that teams need him though or he holds that much value but Cleveland could probably use him. I think if years go by and he is only a sixth man type scorer off the bench with what he has, his contract will still be bargain.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Trading a first for a guy like Beverly is crazy. No need to mortgage an asset that could be used in a bigger deal down the line for a stop gap considering the west is crazy loaded and that's not putting them into the playoffs.

I'm not 100% sold on rozier but at least he can be part of the long term core.

Dragic I'm a little torn. Normally with his age and contact I'd say pass but his relationship with Igor kind of intrigues me as he could instantly come in and help build his system. Plus his game should age ok.

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[Jdiddy701]

If the Suns can get Goran Dragic without giving up Warren, boy that’s a win. From Miami’s view, why would they trade Goran? They would be starting the season without a PG and can make the playoffs with him this year. Pat Riley doesn’t believe in losing.


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[Mr Puddles]

Maybe we could jump in as a third teamed and snag Goran for Warren and the bucks pick returned?

I know it isn't entirely fair to look at it this way, but if we did this trade McD will have effectively traded:

Eric Bledsoe, Isaiah Thomas, Markieff Morris, TJ Warren + #27

For

Ryan Anderson and Melton

- I hope people are following the logic here, I'm effectively subtracting all the players we traded back for:
*We used the assets from the Goran Dragic trades (Miami picks) to get our Lakers Pick back
*We used the asset from the Eric Bledsoe trade (Bucks pick) + TJ Warren to get back Goran back
*We used the asset from the Isiah trade (bogdanovic) + asset from the Markief Morris trade (#13) to acquire Marquise Chriss
*We used the asset from the Lakers pick (later gained back) + Marquise Chriss (above mentioned Morris + Thomas) asset to acquire Ryan Anderson and Melton


A simpler way of saying this is that we gave Goran to Miami on loan for nothing for a couple of seasons, and gave up Bledsoe and TJ Warren in the process.

[Qwigglez]

If the Suns can get Goran Dragic without giving up Warren, boy that’s a win. From Miami’s view, why would they trade Goran? They would be starting the season without a PG and can make the playoffs with him this year. Pat Riley doesn’t believe in losing.


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According to Hoopshype the Heat currently have the highest payroll for 2018-19 season at $151 million. Chris Bosh is still on their payroll but I'm not sure how much of his salary actually counts towards their cap. But even if you cut his salary completely out they are still in the luxury tax. If we traded Chandler and Reed along with a pick they would instantly cut salary by about $3 million. I'm sure Chandler would agree to a buyout and they would cut slightly more, plus I'm not sure Dragic will opt out into free agency this off-season. I'm sure he will because this will likely be his last big contract, but that uncertainty still looms over their head.
Without even looking I bet they will be a repeater in the luxury tax, and I doubt if they make the playoffs they'll make any money because of this. To me, it makes sense financially to shed some salary. And they'll have their own draft pick this upcoming draft, so they can start a fresh rebuild.

These are all reasons that make me believe they will likely trade Dragic and I'm hoping it's to us. We do seem to have trust with the Heat front office since we've made multiple trades with them over the last 10 years or so.

[Blonde]

I’d do the Dragic trade if it just took expirings and a pick. It’s by far the most attractive option I’ve read over the last few days.

I’m skeptical about our glut of wings if one of them isn’t dealt for a PG. I want to avoid another situation with malcontent players, but I don’t want to give Warren away just because. He’s good, and he deserves to play.

Maybe winning cures the issues, or maybe Anderson will play very few minutes, but I don’t think he would have reduced his guaranteed salary unless he had a promise that he would play.

If we traded Chandler/Daniels/Mil 1st for Dragic, I think we’d need to bring Anderson off the bench:

Dragic (28)/Shaq (12) /Okobo (8)/Melton
Booker (32)/Bridges (16)/Reed
Warren (24)/JJ (24)/(King)
Ariza (24)/Anderson (16)/Bender (8)
Ayton (30)/Holmes (10) /Bender (8)

That still doesn’t feel like enough minutes for Warren/JJ/Bridges. Definitely feels like we’re going to trade one of them.

[gaspar]

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[Saberestar]

It seems like Warren for Hill would be selling low on Warren but you would gain a bunch of cap space if that is your goal next year.

We already will have between 23 and 33 million if we waive Anderson.

More cap space is better unless TJ figured out how to shoot 3 at 35% with consistent attempts and he can better space the floor.

More cap space for what?

We have enough space (or can create easily) to offer max money to a FA.
The problem is that great FAs prefer to sign with other franchises.

[BobbieL]

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Dragic for the Bucks pick and Chandler?

I'd be Ok with that. Miami gets an asset and an expiring. We get a starting PG who can shoot and distribute.

Of course for that, but they will want one of our own firsts. Any pick we trade would have to be protected though. And I would probably not trade next year's first. Our 21 first would make sense since they don't have their own and at that point we should be decent.

I get the Heat will want draft picks and the Bucks pick probably doesn't cut it - but the Suns 2020 with protections might.

But the Suns also have 24m of expiring with Arthur, Daniels and Chandler. Would Riley be interested in moving Dragic if he could attach a contract to it. I don't want Waiters - but between Waiters, Richardson, and Johnson or Johnson - my guess Riley would want to attach one to get contract space for next summer. Granted, its still a long shot for the Heat to get cap space.


Dragic for Chandler, Daniels and either the Bucks pick or a protected pick

my guess if the Suns were to take on Waiters - that would facilitiate a deal as well but it would probably cost Reed and Arthur

So who is going to do the following if Riley wanted to attach a player :

ARthur, Reed, Daniels, Chandler and a 1st for Dragic and Waiters?


Personally, I don't want Waiters as that locks up cap space for the Suns so would prefer to just do the first part, Chandler, Daniels (Heat might want Reed) and a pick with protections - like non lottery.

[Frank Lee]

I can't think of many things that would make me stop watching the Suns. Trading for Goran Dragic would be the top of that list.

hahaha.... So you stick by the worst team in the league 2-3 yrs running but will turn your back over a personal butthurt rejection ? Dragic did us all a favor by exposing the sniveling selfcentered side of the Babbler and his big eared protégé. That fiasco was the beginning of the exodus of talent and BBIQ, and thus resulting in the sheetshow we’ve watched over the past 4 dragic-less yrs. I’m guessing McDownside learned a good PR lesson from it all... may be

it’s all water under a burning bridge at this point. You/we should embrace any PG addition that will help take this team into +.500 land.... if that is possible.

Id Say odds on Dragic 6/1 .... Teodosic 3/1
And my long shot ... John Wall at 25/1
We have salary to give in Chandler and Warren, young talent in a few of our recent picks as well as a future or two. Now is not the time to be stingy, nor to be invested in or in love with future picks/rooks.

Imo, selecting Bridges has made one if not both, Jackson or Warren expendable. Okobo can go too. I’d be highly surprised if he is not included in a deal for a starting PG.

Get it McDone!

PS... let me add one more....2/1 we do nothing.... and hope like H somebody from the PG trio steps up

[BobbieL]

I can't think of many things that would make me stop watching the Suns. Trading for Goran Dragic would be the top of that list.

hahaha.... So you stick by the worst team in the league 2-3 yrs running but will turn your back over a personal butthurt rejection ? Dragic did us all a favor by exposing the sniveling selfcentered side of the Babbler and his big eared protégé. That fiasco was the beginning of the exodus of talent and BBIQ, and thus resulting in the sheetshow we’ve watched over the past 4 dragic-less yrs. I’m guessing McDownside learned a good PR lesson from it all... may be

it’s all water under a burning bridge at this point. You/we should embrace any PG addition that will help take this team into +.500 land.... if that is possible.

Id Say odds on Dragic 6/1 .... Teodosic 3/1
And my long shot ... John Wall at 25/1
We have salary to give in Chandler and Warren, young talent in a few of our recent picks as well as a future or two. Now is not the time to be stingy, nor to be invested in or in love with future picks/rooks.

Imo, selecting Bridges has made one if not both, Jackson or Warren expendable. Okobo can go too. I’d be highly surprised if he is not included in a deal for a starting PG.

Get it McDone!

PS... let me add one more....2/1 we do nothing.... and hope like H somebody from the PG trio steps up

I don;t let what happened Gorans second time in Phoenix and his trade affect his coming again. Maybe Goran could have handled things better, for sure the Front office - but whatever. Plus Igor Kokoskov is the coach - he has a good relationship with Goran. I am sure if a deal is happening - they will have talked. Who knows - maybe they "bumped" into each other over the summer.

Goran Dragic would help this roster. And like you said Frank, with Jackson and Warren - onee is expendable. Preferably Warren. I think with Melton, Okobo, Reed and Shaq - one of those guys is expendable - probably Okobo but I am not sure how trading him works - maybe you have to wait 30 dyas to trade a rookie.

But if you get Goran for say Warren, Daniels and say Okobo or Melton - the team is a player in FA to a degree next year

If you use Chandler, and say Daniels - well that takes away a bit of cap space next summer because Chandler being renounced was 20m and Goran picking up his option would be about 19m.

So, I think the deal will be Chandler, Okobo and either Daniels or Reed and a pick for Dragic - IF a trade is made. I tried to see how WArren fits on Miami and he really doesn't. They need a guy like Okobo or even Melton more. Many bad contracts from Riley

[juanc]

Why are you guys hatin' on Goran? He is one of the most humble and hard working guys in the league. He plays with great passion every game and that's something that the young guys can get from him. He also is a great mentor(Luka learned a lot from him in the eurobasket campagin).
He has a great relationship with Igor and I think he is a great fit with the suns team. He benefits from having shooters around him(I still remember the Frye-Goran P'n'P )
And yes, he still is a top10 PG in the league

[BobbieL]

Why are you guys hatin' on Goran? He is one of the most humble and hard working guys in the league. He plays with great passion every game and that's something that the young guys can get from him. He also is a great mentor(Luka learned a lot from him in the eurobasket campagin).
He has a great relationship with Igor and I think he is a great fit with the suns team. He benefits from having shooters around him(I still remember the Frye-Goran P'n'P )
And yes, he still is a top10 PG in the league

Lets say the Suns do make the Goran trade:

So what you are saying is that a shooter like Ryan Anderson could pick and pop with a player like Goran leaving the low post for Ayton and Booker to have a big more opportunity to score as better players around him. All the while veterans like Goran, Ariza and Anderson this year are buying time for Josh Jackson, Mikal Bridges and Deandre Ayton to grow. And we can include Bender, Warren, Okobo - whomever are still left as well. Now GOran could opt out next summer but that is turning down 19m . Kind of hard to see him do that.

[Fo-Real]

If the Suns can't acquire any of the major guys mentioned (lilard, Dragic, Rosier etc...) we should do nothing. Don't trade just to trade. Don't use assets on a nothing pg just to say you did something.

[Stark]

I'd be so okay with trading for Dragic. Forget all the past drama, it's not like we are going to trade a fortune for him (i hope), He is a smart vet, he can shoot, he can pass the ball. He would be great fit with Ayton and Anderson. He is familiar with our rookie coach and his system. Dragic's contract is also not horrible. I would love to have him again on the team. Yes his departure wasn't cool but i'd still prefer him to guys like Thomas, Bledsoe and Mo. Bros.

If we are serious about making a push this year we have to get a solid pg. Shaq and rookies are just not enough, they don't have the experience or talent to run the team. Do you guys remember the summer league where our guards even struggle with making easy passes to Ayton in the paint. Without a reliable pg to run the team, again we are giving all the ballhandling duties to our golden boy Booker which will exhaust him and drop his efficiency like last year.

[bwgood77]

If we do trade expirings for Goran, we are essentially punting on max free agency next year. Not that I really expected to sign anyone great, but it will end up being like we signed him for one year next summer and then likely lost most all our cap space for the foreseeable future.