2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 5 - the calm before the storm

[bwgood77]

That's not what I said in the post you quoted. I said "maybe, maybe not KD" Also, why do you want Donte over Hart?

He's younger, he's a 40% 3pt shooter while Hart is a 30% shooter, he's better from 2, he's a better defender. He has a winning mentality. He was the best player in the national championship game where Villanova won with Bridges, Brunson and him. Stepped up big. Plays hard. He's not great, but Hart definitely isn't. I think we need guys that can definitely stretch the floor and hit the 3.

Hmmmmm.

Well he's younger, so that part is correct. He also went to Nova and was a key player. As for the rest.

He's not a better defender. Most advanced numbers back that statement up as does the eye tests. I don't think he's as quick or as strong. Hart has proven his ability to play hard when he grabs 8 boards a game while outworking guys who have almost a foot on him.

Your statement that Hart isn't good makes wonder how much NYK you watch.

DD is a better shooter....but we don't need that as we'll have Grayson. Randle will be shooting a lot too. Basically most of what he does, we have.

But it won't matter because OKC will trade for KD and I'll be proven right.

You always need shooters. You can't play a guard much if he only shoots 30% a game. Josh Hart is a good rebounder and passer but his efficiency is terrible. He does have a pretty good on/off though.

I wouldn't mind Hart but I'd prefer Donte. But not necessarily by a lot. I just value guys who can shoot. Hart also went Nova, but left the year before they won the championship.

[bwgood77]

It's weird thinking of the Barkley years...we went to the finals his first year (like with Paul) and lost in the 2nd round his next two years (like the last two years), and then we were disappointing in last year with us, getting the 7 seed and losing in the first round. Do you view that 4 year Barkley era better or this last 4 year era better (if we lose in the first round). Same results.....DEFINITELY higher expectations back then though..given before Barkley we had made the WCF twice. We exceeded expectations our first two years with Paul (except the Dallas series...which kind of reminds me of the Rockets series in 95 that we were up 3-1 in and blew).

[Slim Charless]

He's younger, he's a 40% 3pt shooter while Hart is a 30% shooter, he's better from 2, he's a better defender. He has a winning mentality. He was the best player in the national championship game where Villanova won with Bridges, Brunson and him. Stepped up big. Plays hard. He's not great, but Hart definitely isn't. I think we need guys that can definitely stretch the floor and hit the 3.

Hmmmmm.

Well he's younger, so that part is correct. He also went to Nova and was a key player. As for the rest.

He's not a better defender. Most advanced numbers back that statement up as does the eye tests. I don't think he's as quick or as strong. Hart has proven his ability to play hard when he grabs 8 boards a game while outworking guys who have almost a foot on him.

Your statement that Hart isn't good makes wonder how much NYK you watch.

DD is a better shooter....but we don't need that as we'll have Grayson. Randle will be shooting a lot too. Basically most of what he does, we have.

But it won't matter because OKC will trade for KD and I'll be proven right.

You always need shooters. You can't play a guard much if he only shoots 30% a game. Josh Hart is a good rebounder and passer but his efficiency is terrible. He does have a pretty good on/off though.

I wouldn't mind Hart but I'd prefer Donte. But not necessarily by a lot. I just value guys who can shoot. Hart also went Nova, but left the year before they won the championship.

He's an elite rebounder and the aforementioned dirty work is what this team really needs. Guys who don't whine about their roles and don't mind just helping out the stars. I think Hart would be great here and would likely start over Grayson actually, who I think is better coming off the bench as a spark.

FTR, it's still my opinion that you're wrong about OKC fans hating him. I also don't see too much with his family wanting NYC. They'll go wherever he wants to go and won't say much. Lastly, the Knicks are Brunson's team. I'm not sure how much he'd be able to swing that city for himself. If he wanted the Knicks, he should've gone 5 years ago.

That said, I won't dismiss it outright.

[lilfishi22]

I sound like a broken record here...but again Durant just got finished with debatabley his best season since the OKC years. We will get a good return for him as long as JJ hasn't lost his mind.

I doubt Ish will intercede to take the 1st offer if it comes down to us trading him. We'll get more than enough to continue on with Booker and Beal.

I don't think we're tearing it down either. I just agree with ImNotMcDiSwear that not making the KD trade doesn't mean we're in some magically better place nor that we would necessarily get back equal assets back for what we gave up for KD. However, I don't agree we're going down a burn it all down path. I've said it before, I don't believe Ish is in it purely for the short term.

Of course Ish isn't in it purely for the short term, but he'll be in for a rude awakening when he realizes it's not easy to sign a star free agent or clear the cap space to do so. We are stuck with a lot of minimums and very few draft picks for a long time. Sarver did the same thing though...tried to go all in and thought it would happen forever, signed those Amare "replacements" and then we were in 10+ years of hell.

I mean, perhaps he's not a capologist per se but being around the front office and having gone through an offseason already where we exclusively courted vet min free agents, I don't believe someone as involved as he is would be naive or ignorant in believing we're suddenly a free agent team again this offseason. There's not going to be a "rude awakening" there.

[lilfishi22]

I've been saying, essentially, two things:

1.I could see KD wanting out this offseason, because this team isn't built well and isn't good enough, and we lack the means to improve it. If he sticks around, we should expect his trade value to tank the following season, leaving us in a worse position medium- and long-term. It would cost a mind-boggling amount of money - and in all likelihood, we'd be worse next year than this year, because the clock only moves forward.

And we’d be ‘continuing’ mediocrity with Book and Beal as our 1 and 2.

Exactly, and we can't trade Beal. Leaves us choosing between running Booker at the 3 or having a $50 mil per guy in his prime come off our bench. If we kept Durant we'd have to start KD and Booker at the forward spots - yuck! There's a reason people were shocked when we dealt for Beal in the first place. KD *should* want out.

2. If KD wants out, Booker should want out, too. And we'd be smart to acquiesce, rather than waste his career selling tickets for a team that can't compete.

But let me clarify a third point, which is implicit in my position:

3. Moving KD for players rather than picks would more or less cement our spot in purgatory, because we don't have picks or cap space, and we can't trade Beal. There is no realistic scenario in which we trade KD and are a better team as a result. KD's been phenomenal this season.

So then you'd have:

Booker
Beal
Hart
Randle
Mitchell

My point exactly. KD might be injury-prone due to age, but Julius Randle is injury-prone because he's injury-prone. Same with Mitch Rob. That hypothetical Knicks/Suns hybrid lineup - which is about the best I can imagine getting back would get wrecked. we'd probably see about 10 games of it due to injuries - and the fans would probably give up on them after 5 games. Frank's right that we need a PG, but I don't see how we could even play a PG, let alone obtain one.

OK maybe I didn't read your previous post thoroughly but reading this, I don't agree

1. I don't believe KD wants out after one season with this team. AFAIK he didn't want out of Brooklyn even after all the shenanigans
over there but only after Harden was traded AND Kyrie asked for a trade. The guy basically changes teams when he's given it his all (OKC), leaving an untenable situation (GSW/Draymond) or straight shenanigans (BKN). Is there a world where he asks out? Sure, it's not an impossibility however history has shown he doesn't leave unless it's one of the reasons above.

2. If KD wants out, I don't think it's automatic Book wants out too. KD came to Phoenix for Book, Book didn't come to Phoenix for KD.

3. IF KD was to be traded, it'll be for good players and draft capital. It won't be for just players

[starbosa10]

Okc not doing us any favors tonight

[bwgood77]

Hmmmmm.

Well he's younger, so that part is correct. He also went to Nova and was a key player. As for the rest.

He's not a better defender. Most advanced numbers back that statement up as does the eye tests. I don't think he's as quick or as strong. Hart has proven his ability to play hard when he grabs 8 boards a game while outworking guys who have almost a foot on him.

Your statement that Hart isn't good makes wonder how much NYK you watch.

DD is a better shooter....but we don't need that as we'll have Grayson. Randle will be shooting a lot too. Basically most of what he does, we have.

But it won't matter because OKC will trade for KD and I'll be proven right.

You always need shooters. You can't play a guard much if he only shoots 30% a game. Josh Hart is a good rebounder and passer but his efficiency is terrible. He does have a pretty good on/off though.

I wouldn't mind Hart but I'd prefer Donte. But not necessarily by a lot. I just value guys who can shoot. Hart also went Nova, but left the year before they won the championship.

He's an elite rebounder and the aforementioned dirty work is what this team really needs. Guys who don't whine about their roles and don't mind just helping out the stars. I think Hart would be great here and would likely start over Grayson actually, who I think is better coming off the bench as a spark.

FTR, it's still my opinion that you're wrong about OKC fans hating him. I also don't see too much with his family wanting NYC. They'll go wherever he wants to go and won't say much. Lastly, the Knicks are Brunson's team. I'm not sure how much he'd be able to swing that city for himself. If he wanted the Knicks, he should've gone 5 years ago.

That said, I won't dismiss it outright.

KD said not long ago that his family had wanted him to go to the Knicks (I think when he came to the Suns).

[sunskerr]

[phnart]

Here's a serious question: Do the Suns win another game this year?

[garrick]

Almost all of our offseason signings were duds.

Eubanks, KBD, Yuta, Metu.

What hurts is that our genius GM didn't pickup a 3rd string center so we now have to play Eubanks as the starting center in place of Nurkic and he's been stinking it up for the most part.

Should have grabbed Bismack when he got waived or even tried to resign him on during the offseason on a team friendly deal. In the limited minutes Bismack plays he brings some toughness and defense which is not something that Eubanks can provide.

Such a fail of an offseason and some questionable free agent signings by our genius front office.

[lilfishi22]

Almost all of our offseason signings were duds.

Eubanks, KBD, Yuta, Metu.

What hurts is that our genius GM didn't pickup a 3rd string center so we now have to play Eubanks as the starting center in place of Nurkic and he's been stinking it up for the most part.

Should have grabbed Bismack when he got waived or even tried to resign him on during the offseason on a team friendly deal. In the limited minutes Bismack plays he brings some toughness and defense which is not something that Eubanks can provide.

Such a fail of an offseason and some questionable free agent signings by our genius front office.

It'll be nice to get everything right in the offseason but we were working with vet mins which normally don't turn out great. That said we turned KBD/Yuta/Metu/Goodwin into RON which is a helluva trade considering these guys had basically no value. I don't remember the last time a team traded multiple vet min players who didn't play well and turned them into an actually useful rotation guy.

You're right though, Eubanks has straight up sucked

[sunsbg]

Don't touch Eubanks. Result would've been 40-0 in 1st qtr without him.

[Saberestar]

Don't touch Eubanks. Result would've been 40-0 in 1st qtr without him.

IMO he is part of the problem with this team. He makes everything more difficult for anyone out there.

[sunsbg]

Don't touch Eubanks. Result would've been 40-0 in 1st qtr without him.

IMO he is part of the problem with this team. He makes everything more difficult for anyone out there.

Mavs fans used to say the same about Powell for years. Yet it didn't appear to affect Doncic's game.

[Saberestar]

Don't touch Eubanks. Result would've been 40-0 in 1st qtr without him.

IMO he is part of the problem with this team. He makes everything more difficult for anyone out there.

Mavs fans used to say the same about Powell for years. Yet it didn't appear to affect Doncic's game.

Doncic is playing better than ever without Powell as their starting C, so probably it was true.

[sunsbg]

IMO he is part of the problem with this team. He makes everything more difficult for anyone out there.

Mavs fans used to say the same about Powell for years. Yet it didn't appear to affect Doncic's game.

Doncic is playing better than ever without Powell as their starting C, so probably it was true.

Yep, we should have gone after Gafford so our Big 3 doesn't lay an egg every other game. Ayton is gone, bring Eubanks in.

[Saberestar]

Mavs fans used to say the same about Powell for years. Yet it didn't appear to affect Doncic's game.

Doncic is playing better than ever without Powell as their starting C, so probably it was true.

Yep, we should have gone after Gafford so our Big 3 doesn't lay an egg every other game. Ayton is gone, bring Eubanks in.

Obviously Gafford would be a better backup C than Eubanks, but his salary is too high so it wasn't really an option.

Eubanks is really a part of the problem because he is useless out there and makes every set more difficult. Defensively he is nothing to talk about it, a negative player too.

For some reason Vogel loves him and plays him everytime, but I am not the only one thinking that him should have been traded or benched some time ago.

[Puff]

I like Book but it is hard to understand how he continues to suck in all the really important games.

We replaced all those horrible teammates that he had so that he could have his very own super team and we/he continues to suck in all the really big important games.

For those trying to support this team. We now have a healthy Big 3 and we still suck.

Maybe the problem was not Monty and Ayton. Maybe we should not have traded for KD or dumped CP3.

All we wanted was a legit defensive big to play alongside Ayton and a legit Back up PG.+

[garrick]

Doncic is playing better than ever without Powell as their starting C, so probably it was true.

Yep, we should have gone after Gafford so our Big 3 doesn't lay an egg every other game. Ayton is gone, bring Eubanks in.

Obviously Gafford would be a better backup C than Eubanks, but his salary is too high so it wasn't really an option.

Eubanks is really a part of the problem because he is useless out there and makes every set more difficult. Defensively he is nothing to talk about it, a negative player too.

For some reason Vogel loves him and plays him everytime, but I am not the only one thinking that him should have been traded or benched some time ago.

Eubanks should be a third string center at best the only problem is our bench is so thin we have to rely on him to play regular minutes which is exceedingly insufferable.

With no first round picks to trade and a team of vet minimum players it makes it very hard to make trades for impactful players like Gafford.

Improving this roster next season is going to be pretty challenging, we need to get bigger, faster and younger but we really have few assets to work with until KD and Beal come off the books and that's a long ways away.

[phnart]

I might be talking to myself here, but do they win again this season?

They don’t seem to want to match intensity with anyone and all three teams they play have a reason to win these games. This sets up a 10th seed and a road game loss to LA or GS.

I predict 0-4 and “360 unbothered”…

Disappointed fans don’t seem to matter to this team at all so I guess I shouldn’t care, either. Let’s go 2031/32 Suns!