Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 6

[NavLDO]

Whatever the rap was on Payton's defense, well, he's better than Bledsoe. The eye test on this point is clear. Better passer than Bledsoe, more efficient, younger, and we own his extension rights. Payton>>>Bledsoe, so far.

We dealt Bledsoe for a first and a second. We took a second and turned it into Payton. We had Bledsoe, now we have Payton and a first.

And people are talking about getting rid of McD!?

Yes, McD, we are talking about getting rid of you...

Seriously though, I agree. His individual transactions are not the problem. BUT, the sum of the parts are clearly not working. A GM is responsible for building a winning product, and he's been given ample assets (many through his own dealings), to make this happen, yet, here we are, 18-41, and at the bottom of the standings...again. He maybe be nabbing some great deals, but the players, together, are not getting it done. It's more likely due to his Coaching selections; they have all sucked, but still, that's part of his job, is it not?

I feel, if we are not at least an 8th seed by end of next season, McD needs to be shown the door. Sorry, but he will have been given 6 seasons to get to the Playoffs, and will have been Oh-fer on that front, if we miss again next year. We seem to lose the players that somewhat worthwhile players--Dragic, Bledsoe, Markieff, IT--yet managed to get stuck keeping players we don't want--Chandler, BK, and now, Dudley. Next season we pay-out $37.6M to these 3 players, that do nothing for us. That's a Max player. Great, we can get one next season, you say? Uh-uh...we have to pay Booker, and Elfrid this Summer. That money is gone, so we are left with hoping another 'Booker', or at least 'Warren' comes out of this new crop of rookies...and fast...and hope that JJ becomes a force next season. Maybe that happens, and all is good. Great, McD gets to keep his job. If not??? Sorry, I'm of the opinion that he should not.

[NavLDO]

The more I think about it... Magic sold Payton so low to the Suns because Suns are a threat to them this coming draft... Magic are banking on one of Doncic or Young. By trading a semi good young PG to the Suns at cheap rates... It changes the Suns focus on who draft. Hence increasing the chances for Magic to land one of Doncic or Young.

The other teams competing for those 2 already have young PGs and Suns were the clear cut team that lacks a PG... Hence Magic have Payton away for free to the Suns.

I see you Magic...

Which, to me, I'd rather use 2 x 2nds on PGs, on prospects that, IMO, may be better than Trae Young...IN the NBA...and those prospects are:

Shamet (45% 3PT on 5.7 att/gm)
Carter (17/7/5)
Milton (6'5" 195 -- 18/4.4/4.7)
Carr (46% 3PT on 5.2 att/gm)
Graham (17.5/7.2/4)
Brunson (19.8/4.7/3.1 and 43.8% 3PT on 5.3 att/gm)
Holder, a little hometown love...(19.8/3.8./4.5 and 38.2% on 5.8 3s, but 84% FT%) I'd invest a 50s-ish pick on him

...or, we could 'waste' our #3, 4, 5 overall pick...whatever it turns out to be, on a 6'2" 185 Trae Young who's known to be terrible defensively/athletically.

Young (29.1/9.3/4 and 37.2% 3PT on 10.4 att/gm)

...and BTW, every single one of those guys above shoot at least 80% FT. A couple shoot as well, or better than Young (Milton, Carter)

If we go to Pg 3 on on a list of 3PT% rankings of College Guards (I tried to make it fairly discriminating--at least 700 Minutes played, and 100 3PT atts this year), and scroll down to #255, we get to Trae Young, one of the best college Shooters ever...hmmm...

...so I changed it to as discriminating as it can be, and still include most starters that shoot at least 4 to 5 3PT shots per game, and made it 750 Minutes, and 125 3PT atts this year, and that moved Trae Young up to Pg 2 and ranked 164th...

...so, to get Young on Page 1, I added at least 10 Pts/gm, 3 x 3PT Att/gm, instead of total, and added a total of 80 Assists...finally, Pg 1...#92...again, potentially the best NCAA shooter ever?? Sorry, not seeing it...like, at all.

http://cbbref.com/tiny/DE4Qv

...not to mention being having the highest number of TOs in the NCAA, to boot...sorted by TO/gm...

http://cbbref.com/tiny/XakH5

I'd rather take my chances and hedge my bets on any 2...or heck, fine, pick 3, if we end up with 3 x 2nds...of the above PGs, that one of them will turnout to be a good-to-great starting PG in the NBA.

In the meantime, let's use our 1st, and Miami's 1st, on a PF and C, and go from there...well, let me edit that. If Doncic is not the board when we pick, we should absolutely grab him. I think he truly will be a game changing player/wing in the NBA, and he's so darn multifaceted, he can be used in so many ways, that he can fit on our team no matter what. He can fill in for any player that goes out, from PG-SF, IMO, and excel while he's there.

[bwgood77]

Yep. That makes sense. However, so does the fact that the GM being able to convince the player NOT to take the Max until we get a FA or Trade under contract first. So maybe it's not a whole year, but just a couple of months?

I think (and this is just an example), if we were able sign get Boogie's interest, and told Booker "Hey, we are trying to get Boogie under contract, can you wait a few weeks for us to iron this out?" I'm sure he'd be ok with that.

But absolutely, we need to sign him this summer, if that is what is supposed to happen, and the right thing to do (I'm not overly clear, as you can tell, on how this all works).

But worst case scenario, we do the best we can in the draft, we sign both Booker and Elfrid, which, I fear, is going to be closer to $12-16M per vs $8M per, as some are thinking, and we attempt to compete with what we have so far, until Dudley, Chandler, and BK are resolved.

I'm thinking, if Elfrid maintains something anywhere close to what he's putting up now, say 15/7/5 with at least 37% on 2 Att/Gm, we do everything we can to keep him, draft JJJ and SJA, and move on.

Elfrid / Booker / JJ / Bender / JJJ

SJA / Reed / Warren / Chris / Sauce

+ what ever 2nd Rd picks we get

See what we can do with those, and think about stretching BK next summer for funds...

If we tried to get a top tier free agent this summer such as Boogie it doesn't impact Booker's extension at all. He wouldn't have to wait a couple of weeks. Besides Boogie though I don't see us being remotely interested in the other free agents available, maybe DJ if we drafted anyone but a center in this draft.

No, but it impacts our ability to sign Boogie, doesn't it? Or is it a scenario like Warren's, where if Booker signs now, it just ends up being a PPP, where the money will BE there, but it's not there yet. That's the part I don't understand enough, and I get the feeling some other posters on this forum do not either.

If we can sign Booker's extension/next Max, whatever you call it, this summer, can we conceivably sign someone like Boogie this Summer, as in, Booker's NEW contract, not inhibiting us from sign Boogie at all? I understand we'd need to clean up a little bit of other stuff; I'm just strictly talking about Booker's new contract's effect on our ability to sign a high-priced FA. When does Booker's money come into play?

This might alleviate a lot of misunderstanding around here, if you, or someone else, knows the answer. It may have already been posted, but it's a hard to read every post on every page.

Booker's extension will have zero impact on anything this summer (his salary is set in stone for next year). It would have impact on the summer of 19.

[sunsbum]

Whatever the rap was on Payton's defense, well, he's better than Bledsoe. The eye test on this point is clear. Better passer than Bledsoe, more efficient, younger, and we own his extension rights. Payton>>>Bledsoe, so far.

We dealt Bledsoe for a first and a second. We took a second and turned it into Payton. We had Bledsoe, now we have Payton and a first.

And people are talking about getting rid of McD!?

Yes, McD, we are talking about getting rid of you...

Seriously though, I agree. His individual transactions are not the problem. BUT, the sum of the parts are clearly not working. A GM is responsible for building a winning product, and he's been given ample assets (many through his own dealings), to make this happen, yet, here we are, 18-41, and at the bottom of the standings...again. He maybe be nabbing some great deals, but the players, together, are not getting it done. It's more likely due to his Coaching selections; they have all sucked, but still, that's part of his job, is it not?

I feel, if we are not at least an 8th seed by end of next season, McD needs to be shown the door. Sorry, but he will have been given 6 seasons to get to the Playoffs, and will have been Oh-fer on that front, if we miss again next year. We seem to lose the players that somewhat worthwhile players--Dragic, Bledsoe, Markieff, IT--yet managed to get stuck keeping players we don't want--Chandler, BK, and now, Dudley. Next season we pay-out $37.6M to these 3 players, that do nothing for us. That's a Max player. Great, we can get one next season, you say? Uh-uh...we have to pay Booker, and Elfrid this Summer. That money is gone, so we are left with hoping another 'Booker', or at least 'Warren' comes out of this new crop of rookies...and fast...and hope that JJ becomes a force next season. Maybe that happens, and all is good. Great, McD gets to keep his job. If not??? Sorry, I'm of the opinion that he should not.

Come on. Even the 76ers who are in the east and have an arse load of high picks/more talent are barely in the playoff race. You can't expect a 24 win team full of 2nd and 3rd year players to just all of a sudden be greased for making the playoffs. Unless we make some type of "Steve Nash" acquisition I dont see it and I don't think it's fair to not let MCD see his game plan through right as things are turning for the better.

[BobbieL]

Looking at lists of potential Free Agents in 18 and 19 - maybe it might be worth it to go after Gordon this summer. Granted, the Magic can match a deal. But - the names that I saw were the big free agents in 2019 might be Klay and Kawhi. Hard to think the Suns would win if say the Lakers are involved for either. So, maybe strike with Gordon this summer.

But the Suns do have some assets to trade: Chriss, maybe they can do a "wink-wink" pick for the Magic with the Heat pick plus can include the Bucks pick. Suns have contracts like Daniels that is 3.2 expiring in 2019 and Ulis can be waived. Probably would still need to include Williams - as that is 5.5m not guaranteed to try to get that 20m figure

Granted, can the Suns do a sign and trade for an RFA like Aaron Gordon?

[Hesh]

sorry don't know where to post this where I will get an immediate reply. But need a link to the 3pt contest

[MrMiyagi]

Looking at lists of potential Free Agents in 18 and 19 - maybe it might be worth it to go after Gordon this summer. Granted, the Magic can match a deal. But - the names that I saw were the big free agents in 2019 might be Klay and Kawhi. Hard to think the Suns would win if say the Lakers are involved for either. So, maybe strike with Gordon this summer.

But the Suns do have some assets to trade: Chriss, maybe they can do a "wink-wink" pick for the Magic with the Heat pick plus can include the Bucks pick. Suns have contracts like Daniels that is 3.2 expiring in 2019 and Ulis can be waived. Probably would still need to include Williams - as that is 5.5m not guaranteed to try to get that 20m figure

Granted, can the Suns do a sign and trade for an RFA like Aaron Gordon?

I don't think Aaron Gordon fits this team. I'm also not sure he's worth the money he'll be making next season.

[BobbieL]

sorry don't know where to post this where I will get an immediate reply. But need a link to the 3pt contest

Saturday Night, TNT - I think their coverage starts at 8pm ET

[BobbieL]

Looking at lists of potential Free Agents in 18 and 19 - maybe it might be worth it to go after Gordon this summer. Granted, the Magic can match a deal. But - the names that I saw were the big free agents in 2019 might be Klay and Kawhi. Hard to think the Suns would win if say the Lakers are involved for either. So, maybe strike with Gordon this summer.

But the Suns do have some assets to trade: Chriss, maybe they can do a "wink-wink" pick for the Magic with the Heat pick plus can include the Bucks pick. Suns have contracts like Daniels that is 3.2 expiring in 2019 and Ulis can be waived. Probably would still need to include Williams - as that is 5.5m not guaranteed to try to get that 20m figure

Granted, can the Suns do a sign and trade for an RFA like Aaron Gordon?

I don't think Aaron Gordon fits this team. I'm also not sure he's worth the money he'll be making next season.

I can see that - an RFA like Gordon probably would be what 72-80/4 years.

The Suns probably need another year for the young core to mature: Booker, Jackson, Chriss, Warren, Bender.
Plus they have two first round picks

So maybe before spending on Gordon - take all 7 of those young players and give them a year. Hopefully the coach is still a teacher, developer of talent (that to me is not Jason Kidd). Granted, if they sign Payton, that is really 8 players under 25

So, those 7 young players - play them and see who really starts to shine. Than with expirings like Chandler, Dudley, Sauce, Daniels - maybe just decide to not bring back a player or trade one, also have draft picks to trade and for lack of a better word "tweak or fine-tine" the roster in the summer of 19/20. Granted, if all of the above players mature and grow - that might be your best scenario - though cannot resign them all

In the meantime - find a veteran that will help for the coming season - Tyreke Evans probably has priced himself out of the market but maybe a player in that 8-10m range. Hopefully that veteran with Knight would be enough to help push this team forward.

[thamadkant]

Looking at lists of potential Free Agents in 18 and 19 - maybe it might be worth it to go after Gordon this summer. Granted, the Magic can match a deal. But - the names that I saw were the big free agents in 2019 might be Klay and Kawhi. Hard to think the Suns would win if say the Lakers are involved for either. So, maybe strike with Gordon this summer.

But the Suns do have some assets to trade: Chriss, maybe they can do a "wink-wink" pick for the Magic with the Heat pick plus can include the Bucks pick. Suns have contracts like Daniels that is 3.2 expiring in 2019 and Ulis can be waived. Probably would still need to include Williams - as that is 5.5m not guaranteed to try to get that 20m figure

Granted, can the Suns do a sign and trade for an RFA like Aaron Gordon?

I don't think Aaron Gordon fits this team. I'm also not sure he's worth the money he'll be making next season.

Suns perfect PF right now would be Draymond Green. Someone who can guard 1 to 4 and facilitate all game long

[bwgood77]

I mentioned Gregg Marshall before, who similar to Brad Stevens, elevated a smaller school without great recruits to great season after great season...almost went undefeated a few years back...article today about whether he will stay because he constantly gets recruited to leave...

"His attitude and his intensity mixed with his heart and his care for us and me helped my career tremendously," Early told ESPN.com. "I had never had a coach of his caliber and with his demeanor. He was something new, odd and refreshing for me all at once. Some guys can't handle his type of coaching. I loved it. I went head-to-head with it, but I embraced it."

"He creates a certain kind of adversity in practice that makes the in-game adversity easier to deal with. When you first get here, it's almost like a shellshock situation where you're almost like, 'Dang, what'd I sign up for?' Some days you feel like Coach hates you, but it's all calculated and for a reason."

-Wichita State guard Landry Shamet

"Coach Marshall, when he steps in between those lines, he don't care about nobody's feelings, nothing like that," senior Shaq Morris says. "It's all about the team and us getting better, and he'll tell you like it is. When you come here, you kinda gotta decide before you come if you want to be coached that way."

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22451365/will-gregg-marshall-leave-wichita-state-bigger-job

I'd take a look at him if I was looking at college coaches, but his coaching style might not go over well with some NBA players.

[thamadkant]

Triano Defensive Rating in NBA:

2018: 29th
2011: 30th
2010: 30th
2009: 22nd

This.


I'm open for Triano to stay as Assistant Coach. And it seems he is just a transitional coach and he accepts that.... But Suns need to get over offense only systems... Even D'Antoni has embraced defensive players in his lineups... Ariza, Capela, Tucker, that guy with a funny name, Chris Paul etc.

[bwgood77]

Looking at lists of potential Free Agents in 18 and 19 - maybe it might be worth it to go after Gordon this summer. Granted, the Magic can match a deal. But - the names that I saw were the big free agents in 2019 might be Klay and Kawhi. Hard to think the Suns would win if say the Lakers are involved for either. So, maybe strike with Gordon this summer.

But the Suns do have some assets to trade: Chriss, maybe they can do a "wink-wink" pick for the Magic with the Heat pick plus can include the Bucks pick. Suns have contracts like Daniels that is 3.2 expiring in 2019 and Ulis can be waived. Probably would still need to include Williams - as that is 5.5m not guaranteed to try to get that 20m figure

Granted, can the Suns do a sign and trade for an RFA like Aaron Gordon?

I don't think Aaron Gordon fits this team. I'm also not sure he's worth the money he'll be making next season.

Suns perfect PF right now would be Draymond Green. Someone who can guard 1 to 4 and facilitate all game long

Yeah, he'd be perfect...still hold out hope Bender can become Dray-lite.

[jcsunsfan]

I don't think Aaron Gordon fits this team. I'm also not sure he's worth the money he'll be making next season.

Suns perfect PF right now would be Draymond Green. Someone who can guard 1 to 4 and facilitate all game long

Yeah, he'd be perfect...still hold out hope Bender can become Dray-lite.

Um. I am a Bender fan and have high hopes for him. But, never in a million years. Different types of players. Josh Jackson has a better chance of doing this than Bender (better, not good, or even really remote, just better).

[bwgood77]

Suns perfect PF right now would be Draymond Green. Someone who can guard 1 to 4 and facilitate all game long

Yeah, he'd be perfect...still hold out hope Bender can become Dray-lite.

Um. I am a Bender fan and have high hopes for him. But, never in a million years. Different types of players. Josh Jackson has a better chance of doing this than Bender (better, not good, or even really remote, just better).

It's been talked about before. Draymond is awesome. So hopefully Bender can provide some of the exact same things...guard any position with the long wing span, hit 3s, and be a good distributor. Jackson can't guard bigs or hit 3s. Jackson is a completely different type of player than Green. Bender isn't a similar player, but has some similar attributes to where if he hits his potential he could be able to provide many of the same things.

[MajorMinor]

How about Becky Hammon for coach? Really anyone but Triano or Watson tho.

[oddity]

Looking at lists of potential Free Agents in 18 and 19 - maybe it might be worth it to go after Gordon this summer. Granted, the Magic can match a deal. But - the names that I saw were the big free agents in 2019 might be Klay and Kawhi. Hard to think the Suns would win if say the Lakers are involved for either. So, maybe strike with Gordon this summer.

But the Suns do have some assets to trade: Chriss, maybe they can do a "wink-wink" pick for the Magic with the Heat pick plus can include the Bucks pick. Suns have contracts like Daniels that is 3.2 expiring in 2019 and Ulis can be waived. Probably would still need to include Williams - as that is 5.5m not guaranteed to try to get that 20m figure

Granted, can the Suns do a sign and trade for an RFA like Aaron Gordon?

I don't think Aaron Gordon fits this team. I'm also not sure he's worth the money he'll be making next season.

Suns perfect PF right now would be Draymond Green. Someone who can guard 1 to 4 and facilitate all game long

While we're on Warriors I would actually rather us have KD to play as our 4. He can space the floor, create himself, pass, play defense. I like MPJr so much right now because he kinda has a similar skillset going on.

[jredsaz]

Booker came in - after what he considered a snub - and not only won but set a record. This kid is not going to miss his shot. Wow.

[Saberestar]

I don't think Aaron Gordon fits this team. I'm also not sure he's worth the money he'll be making next season.

Suns perfect PF right now would be Draymond Green. Someone who can guard 1 to 4 and facilitate all game long

While we're on Warriors I would actually rather us have KD to play as our 4. He can space the floor, create himself, pass, play defense. I like MPJr so much right now because he kinda has a similar skillset going on.

KD can play any position. He is an unreal player, easily I would pick Durant over Draymond too.

[hollywood6964]

Suns perfect PF right now would be Draymond Green. Someone who can guard 1 to 4 and facilitate all game long

While we're on Warriors I would actually rather us have KD to play as our 4. He can space the floor, create himself, pass, play defense. I like MPJr so much right now because he kinda has a similar skillset going on.

KD can play any position. He is an unreal player, easily I would pick Durant over Draymond too.

Of course, Draymonds just a system player, without gsw n it's system his cocky ass would never make an all star team.

If he were on atl, or a team like it, he'd just be thought of as a "nice" player. At best. There'd be no flexing after every made play.