Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working

[phnart]

I have to think TJ Warren is gone after this season. Aside from his lack of defense and passing, in his most durable season he played 66 games. He gets the weirdest injuries, too...the head thing that they never really said what happens, now a "sore ankle" or a bone bruise?
When you have a Kelly Oubre Jr ready to go, who plays defense, can get hot, and is two years younger has the experience of playing in the playoffs, it's a no brainer. Now, who would be interested in TJ and what you can get for him is another story.

I love TJ. I just think that the chemistry and defensive identity we've been developing in his absence shouldn't be disrupted. Sure, we'd be better giving all of JJ's minutes to TJ right now. So maybe it's a question of the value we could get in trade. Most of us think TJ would fetch more value in trade, but maybe not. I just love this chemistry and don't see where TJ fits in except perhaps behind Bender (or his replacement) and I just can't see him accepting such a diminished role. TJ's better than that. He should be scoring 22 PPG as a starter somewhere.

Good point...I am a fan of his, too, don't get me wrong, but the chemistry right now is better (especially the last few games). His contract is pretty friendly and he is definitely a proven scorer...maybe somebody would like to have a 60 game a year guy who scores 22ppg.

[sunsbum]

tj would go great with lebron

[bwgood77]

I love TJ. I just think that the chemistry and defensive identity we've been developing in his absence shouldn't be disrupted. Sure, we'd be better giving all of JJ's minutes to TJ right now. So maybe it's a question of the value we could get in trade. Most of us think TJ would fetch more value in trade, but maybe not. I just love this chemistry and don't see where TJ fits in except perhaps behind Bender (or his replacement) and I just can't see him accepting such a diminished role. TJ's better than that. He should be scoring 22 PPG as a starter somewhere.

I wouldn't say we've developed a defensive intensity in his absence. Since he's been out, before the last two games we were allowing over 121 ppg, which is league worst (for the season we allow 116 ppg, so with him we allow less on avg). Now the last two games we have held teams to 107 avg, but of course it's two games. There is no doubt last night was an impressive victory, but I think it's important to not jump to conclusions off a few games. We just came off a franchise record 17 game losing streak with TJ out for all but the first 4 of them (and 2 of those 4 we lost on buzzer beaters to Toronto and Minnesota).

I think Tyler Johnson has really helped with the communication and his energy seems infectious since our whole team has seemed to step up since his arrival, despite a couple of poor shooting nights, because he just stays focused and continues to hustle...plays smart.

[SideSwipe]

I love TJ. I just think that the chemistry and defensive identity we've been developing in his absence shouldn't be disrupted. Sure, we'd be better giving all of JJ's minutes to TJ right now. So maybe it's a question of the value we could get in trade. Most of us think TJ would fetch more value in trade, but maybe not. I just love this chemistry and don't see where TJ fits in except perhaps behind Bender (or his replacement) and I just can't see him accepting such a diminished role. TJ's better than that. He should be scoring 22 PPG as a starter somewhere.

I wouldn't say we've developed a defensive intensity in his absence. Since he's been out, before the last two games we were allowing over 121 ppg, which is league worst (for the season we allow 116 ppg, so with him we allow less on avg). Now the last two games we have held teams to 107 avg, but of course it's two games. There is no doubt last night was an impressive victory, but I think it's important to not jump to conclusions off a few games. We just came off a franchise record 17 game losing streak with TJ out for all but the first 4 of them (and 2 of those 4 we lost on buzzer beaters to Toronto and Minnesota.

I think Tyler Johnson has really helped with the communication and his energy seems infectious since our whole team has seemed to step up since his arrival, despite a couple of poor shooting nights, because he just stays focused and continues to hustle...plays smart.

All these last two games are showing is that the team has finally learned to win without TJ. That's not all because of TJ, but he is definitely a part of it. Players are exploring different areas on the court without him out there, they are gauging their offense and defensive positions. The toughness from the last two games has been remarkable. Ayton has been a revelation the last two.

Nothing gives me more pride as a Suns fan than seeing Giannis getting frustrated trying to put a move on Ayton, only to pass back out, miss or be blocked. He did still have an alright game, but Ayton put his stamp on the last two games. He was actually dominant, and what we hope to see more of in the future. He also finally put it on the floor and got to the rim. If our bad inlet passes are going to make him keep floating away from the key, that dribble step towards the hoop will be very important for him. But the defense....the defense..., the defense...hello Mr. Ayton, I see you.

[bwgood77]

I love TJ. I just think that the chemistry and defensive identity we've been developing in his absence shouldn't be disrupted. Sure, we'd be better giving all of JJ's minutes to TJ right now. So maybe it's a question of the value we could get in trade. Most of us think TJ would fetch more value in trade, but maybe not. I just love this chemistry and don't see where TJ fits in except perhaps behind Bender (or his replacement) and I just can't see him accepting such a diminished role. TJ's better than that. He should be scoring 22 PPG as a starter somewhere.

I wouldn't say we've developed a defensive intensity in his absence. Since he's been out, before the last two games we were allowing over 121 ppg, which is league worst (for the season we allow 116 ppg, so with him we allow less on avg). Now the last two games we have held teams to 107 avg, but of course it's two games. There is no doubt last night was an impressive victory, but I think it's important to not jump to conclusions off a few games. We just came off a franchise record 17 game losing streak with TJ out for all but the first 4 of them (and 2 of those 4 we lost on buzzer beaters to Toronto and Minnesota.

I think Tyler Johnson has really helped with the communication and his energy seems infectious since our whole team has seemed to step up since his arrival, despite a couple of poor shooting nights, because he just stays focused and continues to hustle...plays smart.

All these last two games are showing is that the team has finally learned to win without TJ. That's not all because of TJ, but he is definitely a part of it. Players are exploring different areas on the court without him out there, they are gauging their offense and defensive positions. The toughness from the last two games has been remarkable. Ayton has been a revelation the last two.

Nothing gives me more pride as a Suns fan than seeing Giannis getting frustrated trying to put a move on Ayton, only to pass back out, miss or be blocked. He did still have an alright game, but Ayton put his stamp on the last two games. He was actually dominant, and what we hope to see more of in the future. He also finally put it on the floor and got to the rim. If our bad inlet passes are going to make him keep floating away from the key, that dribble step towards the hoop will be very important for him. But the defense....the defense..., the defense...hello Mr. Ayton, I see you.

It is nice to see them finally find a way to win without TJ. Obviously that doesn't mean they are better without him, just that they will now have an extra weapon to add and will have a better bench and be able to compete well when he sits instead of getting blown out. Before these 3 wins out of 4 games, they had only won one game without him, and it was an early one when Ariza was still here.

I agree about Ayton..it's been fun and impressive to watch him the last couple of games.

[suns12345]

Maybe Bookers has some psychological issue dealing with the hand injury, where he is compensating in some way which is why his 3P% has dropped. Or just because he’s taking harder looks too. I hardly see him get open threes but even when he is open it’s not as automatic as you’d think.

For me, the ideal players to surround Booker/Ayton are versatile lengthy 3&D guys. Exactly what Bridges and Oubre are. Oubre kind of reminds me of Marion where he has that explosive first jump, the length, etc. hes been averaging almost a block and steal a game with a Suns uniform on. He doesn’t have the same defensive IQ as Marion though. For PG, Melton possesses the length for my ideal PG around Booker/Ayton however he will need a couple years to develop.
I bring this up because I don’t want to trade Bridges or lose Oubre. Ideally we don’t lose Warren either.

I play a decent level of ball and have had a hand issue this season. I was also talking about this to a guy the other day who played pro ball in Greece who hurt his hand one season. It definitely affects your shooting and its something that doesn't get better until you give it a good rest because it gets knocked almost every game.

So i wouldn't be surprised if that has been his issue this year, especially since he rushed back with it early on.

[bwgood77]

Maybe Bookers has some psychological issue dealing with the hand injury, where he is compensating in some way which is why his 3P% has dropped. Or just because he’s taking harder looks too. I hardly see him get open threes but even when he is open it’s not as automatic as you’d think.

For me, the ideal players to surround Booker/Ayton are versatile lengthy 3&D guys. Exactly what Bridges and Oubre are. Oubre kind of reminds me of Marion where he has that explosive first jump, the length, etc. hes been averaging almost a block and steal a game with a Suns uniform on. He doesn’t have the same defensive IQ as Marion though. For PG, Melton possesses the length for my ideal PG around Booker/Ayton however he will need a couple years to develop.
I bring this up because I don’t want to trade Bridges or lose Oubre. Ideally we don’t lose Warren either.

Funny you mention Marion because I was thinking it would be nice if Oubre could turn into that type of player after seeing him with all those rebounds.

Obviously that's a very tall order and I think our bar has gotten so low that sometimes people can seem really good and we forget how good it is to have REALLY good players.

For example, look at Marion's 4th year compared to Oubre's. This was a couple years before Nash came back, when Marbury was here.

http://bkref.com/tiny/rQCx9 You look at BPM's, VORP, ORTG, DRTG..

It's amazing looking at once Nash was there, Marion's rebounds went from in the 9s to over 11 per game for a few years.

[Saberestar]

Maybe Bookers has some psychological issue dealing with the hand injury, where he is compensating in some way which is why his 3P% has dropped. Or just because he’s taking harder looks too. I hardly see him get open threes but even when he is open it’s not as automatic as you’d think.

For me, the ideal players to surround Booker/Ayton are versatile lengthy 3&D guys. Exactly what Bridges and Oubre are. Oubre kind of reminds me of Marion where he has that explosive first jump, the length, etc. hes been averaging almost a block and steal a game with a Suns uniform on. He doesn’t have the same defensive IQ as Marion though. For PG, Melton possesses the length for my ideal PG around Booker/Ayton however he will need a couple years to develop.
I bring this up because I don’t want to trade Bridges or lose Oubre. Ideally we don’t lose Warren either.

Funny you mention Marion because I was thinking it would be nice if Oubre could turn into that type of player after seeing him with all those rebounds.

Obviously that's a very tall order and I think our bar has gotten so low that sometimes people can seem really good and we forget how good it is to have REALLY good players.

For example, look at Marion's 4th year compared to Oubre's. This was a couple years before Nash came back, when Marbury was here.

http://bkref.com/tiny/rQCx9 You look at BPM's, VORP, ORTG, DRTG..

It's amazing looking at once Nash was there, Marion's rebounds went from in the 9s to over 11 per game for a few years.

Marion was an amazing two-way player. One of my all time favourites. I would love to watch a player like him as a Sun again, but that is not happening for now.

Siakam probably is close...different type of PF but he can have similar impact in the future for the Raptors.

[LukasBMW]

Bender has been playing much better lately. Not picking up his option seems to have lit a fire under his ass. If we can sign him on a inexpensive short term deal (maybe 2 years with a team option for the 3rd), I'll take him.

His energy on defense last night was fantastic and much like Ayton, he is a 7 footer who can stick with quicker smaller guys on the perimeter, yet he is still a decent shot blocker.

If Bender is willing to play with high energy on defense AND he is willing to dedicate his summer to improving his 3 point shot (ideally working with TJ's miracle working shooting coach) Bender WILL become a rotation player and possibly the ideal stretch 4 next to Bender.

And he's not a 5 or a 3. He's a god damn 4, but he's a 4 who can switch off on quicker players and not get burned.

[LukasBMW]

Maybe Bookers has some psychological issue dealing with the hand injury, where he is compensating in some way which is why his 3P% has dropped. Or just because he’s taking harder looks too. I hardly see him get open threes but even when he is open it’s not as automatic as you’d think.

For me, the ideal players to surround Booker/Ayton are versatile lengthy 3&D guys. Exactly what Bridges and Oubre are. Oubre kind of reminds me of Marion where he has that explosive first jump, the length, etc. hes been averaging almost a block and steal a game with a Suns uniform on. He doesn’t have the same defensive IQ as Marion though. For PG, Melton possesses the length for my ideal PG around Booker/Ayton however he will need a couple years to develop.
I bring this up because I don’t want to trade Bridges or lose Oubre. Ideally we don’t lose Warren either.

Funny you mention Marion because I was thinking it would be nice if Oubre could turn into that type of player after seeing him with all those rebounds.

Obviously that's a very tall order and I think our bar has gotten so low that sometimes people can seem really good and we forget how good it is to have REALLY good players.

For example, look at Marion's 4th year compared to Oubre's. This was a couple years before Nash came back, when Marbury was here.

http://bkref.com/tiny/rQCx9 You look at BPM's, VORP, ORTG, DRTG..

It's amazing looking at once Nash was there, Marion's rebounds went from in the 9s to over 11 per game for a few years.

Marion was an amazing two-way player. One of my all time favourites. I would love to watch a player like him as a Sun again, but that is not happening for now.

Siakam probably is close...different type of PF but he can have similar impact in the future for the Raptors.

Ayton = Amare
Oubre = Marion
Booker = JJ

Now all we need is Nash.

[Saberestar]

Funny you mention Marion because I was thinking it would be nice if Oubre could turn into that type of player after seeing him with all those rebounds.

Obviously that's a very tall order and I think our bar has gotten so low that sometimes people can seem really good and we forget how good it is to have REALLY good players.

For example, look at Marion's 4th year compared to Oubre's. This was a couple years before Nash came back, when Marbury was here.

http://bkref.com/tiny/rQCx9 You look at BPM's, VORP, ORTG, DRTG..

It's amazing looking at once Nash was there, Marion's rebounds went from in the 9s to over 11 per game for a few years.

Marion was an amazing two-way player. One of my all time favourites. I would love to watch a player like him as a Sun again, but that is not happening for now.

Siakam probably is close...different type of PF but he can have similar impact in the future for the Raptors.

Ayton = Amare
Oubre = Marion
Booker = JJ

Now all we need is Nash.

Yeah...good luck with that.

I would try to sign McConnell. I think he is a better option (and cheaper) than "bigger" names as Rubio, Rozier or Rondo.

McConnell / Tyler Johnson can be a solid rotation at PG for next season.

[BobbieL]

Marion was an amazing two-way player. One of my all time favourites. I would love to watch a player like him as a Sun again, but that is not happening for now.

Siakam probably is close...different type of PF but he can have similar impact in the future for the Raptors.

Ayton = Amare
Oubre = Marion
Booker = JJ

Now all we need is Nash.

Yeah...good luck with that.

I would try to sign McConnell. I think he is a better option (and cheaper) than "bigger" names as Rubio, Rozier or Rondo.

McConnell / Tyler Johnson can be a solid rotation at PG for next season.

McConnell is a smart player. Played on one of the U of A's best teams - maybe the best team if Ashley didn't break his foot


but if you keep Tyler - he would kind of offset the cost for one year

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Funny you mention Marion because I was thinking it would be nice if Oubre could turn into that type of player after seeing him with all those rebounds.

Obviously that's a very tall order and I think our bar has gotten so low that sometimes people can seem really good and we forget how good it is to have REALLY good players.

For example, look at Marion's 4th year compared to Oubre's. This was a couple years before Nash came back, when Marbury was here.

http://bkref.com/tiny/rQCx9 You look at BPM's, VORP, ORTG, DRTG..

It's amazing looking at once Nash was there, Marion's rebounds went from in the 9s to over 11 per game for a few years.

Marion was an amazing two-way player. One of my all time favourites. I would love to watch a player like him as a Sun again, but that is not happening for now.

Siakam probably is close...different type of PF but he can have similar impact in the future for the Raptors.

Ayton = Amare
Oubre = Marion
Booker = JJ

Now all we need is Nash.

Except Booker = Nash for the purposes of our program. What we need are Raja Bell (Johnson/Melton?), Leandro Barbosa (Josh Jackson?) and Channing Frye (Bender?).

It's important to recognize that we are not the 7SOL Suns. We don't have Kemp, Malone, Charles or Amare (paired with Payton, Stockton, KJ and Nash, respectively). We're more like like Sean Elliott and David Robinson, Drexler and Olajuwon, Ginobili and Duncan, and to a lesser extent (because Deandre ain't no Shaq), Penny/Wade/Kobe & Shaq. You surround an elite 2 and 5 with DEFENSE, as all those teams did, and place a little less emphasis on getting an elite PG. If you can get a guy with the total package (like the Spurs did with Tony Parker), you obviously prefer that to Derek Fisher, but the key is defense, and that's what we need to continue to focus on.

If Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, Ricky Rubio or Lonzo Ball are attainable, they fit the mold. But we don't need a great point guard to be great - just a good one who plays well on defense. One can obviously upgrade from Tyler Johnson, but Melton might break out in a season or two. Johnson would be great as a backup, but honestly he isn't bad as a starter - below average for sure, but a pretty good fit with our team.

.... As an additional note, all those elite 2/5 teams emphasized having a very good 4 next to their big man. I think part of the reason for this is if you're running a traditional center, he'll be guarded by a traditional center, and you need a second guy to be able to defend and attack the interior if you're taking this approach. Traditionally, the good ones (I'm thinking Grant, Oakley, Thorpe, Rodman, Haslem) were tough inside and all but Rodman could stretch to the mid-range. But the guy I think of who would best suit the modern age is Robert Horry. The last time a team with a traditional 5 not named Duncan got to the finals, it was the Magic, who used Ryan Anderson. Dragan fits that mold. He's just young.

[BobbieL]

Marion was an amazing two-way player. One of my all time favourites. I would love to watch a player like him as a Sun again, but that is not happening for now.

Siakam probably is close...different type of PF but he can have similar impact in the future for the Raptors.

Ayton = Amare
Oubre = Marion
Booker = JJ

Now all we need is Nash.

Except Booker = Nash for the purposes of our program. What we need are Raja Bell (Johnson/Melton?), Leandro Barbosa (Josh Jackson?) and Channing Frye (Bender?).

It's important to recognize that we are not the 7SOL Suns. We don't have Kemp, Malone, Charles or Amare (paired with Payton, Stockton, KJ and Nash, respectively). We're more like like Sean Elliott and David Robinson, Drexler and Olajuwon, Ginobili and Duncan, and to a lesser extent (because Deandre ain't no Shaq), Penny/Wade/Kobe & Shaq. You surround an elite 2 and 5 with DEFENSE, as all those teams did, and place a little less emphasis on getting an elite PG. If you can get a guy with the total package (like the Spurs did with Tony Parker), you obviously prefer that to Derek Fisher, but the key is defense, and that's what we need to continue to focus on.

If Jrue Holiday, Mike Conley, Ricky Rubio or Lonzo Ball are attainable, they fit the mold. But we don't need a great point guard to be great - just a good one who plays well on defense. One can obviously upgrade from Tyler Johnson, but Melton might break out in a season or two. Johnson would be great as a backup, but honestly he isn't bad as a starter - below average for sure, but a pretty good fit with our team.

.... As an additional note, all those elite 2/5 teams emphasized having a very good 4 next to their big man. I think part of the reason for this is if you're running a traditional center, he'll be guarded by a traditional center, and you need a second guy to be able to defend and attack the perimeter if you're taking this approach. Traditionally, the good ones (I'm thinking Grant, Oakley, Thorpe, Rodman, Haslem) were tough inside and all but Rodman could stretch to the mid-range. But the guy I think of who would best suit the modern age is Robert Horry. The last time a team with a traditional 5 not named Duncan got to the finals, it was the Magic, who used Ryan Anderson. Dragan fits that mold. He's just young.

The Suns do need a PG and PF. But I also think with Booker and Ayton, they have the potential star players. its those role players that fill out the roster; the professional NBA players that just help your team. You bring up Bell, Barbosa and Frye -- good examples.

Hence - depending on what happens with cap space and what not - I see the Suns needing "good quantity" which is realistic this offseason over a Kawhi Kemba or KD. Granted, if one of those dudes want to show up - for sure figure it out. But last year, Ryan spent 15m on Ariza

I get hindsight is 2020 but spreading the wealth would have been much better. Say Bejelica and a PG or something like that.

[lilfishi22]

I love TJ. I just think that the chemistry and defensive identity we've been developing in his absence shouldn't be disrupted. Sure, we'd be better giving all of JJ's minutes to TJ right now. So maybe it's a question of the value we could get in trade. Most of us think TJ would fetch more value in trade, but maybe not. I just love this chemistry and don't see where TJ fits in except perhaps behind Bender (or his replacement) and I just can't see him accepting such a diminished role. TJ's better than that. He should be scoring 22 PPG as a starter somewhere.

I wouldn't say we've developed a defensive intensity in his absence. Since he's been out, before the last two games we were allowing over 121 ppg, which is league worst (for the season we allow 116 ppg, so with him we allow less on avg). Now the last two games we have held teams to 107 avg, but of course it's two games. There is no doubt last night was an impressive victory, but I think it's important to not jump to conclusions off a few games. We just came off a franchise record 17 game losing streak with TJ out for all but the first 4 of them (and 2 of those 4 we lost on buzzer beaters to Toronto and Minnesota.

I think Tyler Johnson has really helped with the communication and his energy seems infectious since our whole team has seemed to step up since his arrival, despite a couple of poor shooting nights, because he just stays focused and continues to hustle...plays smart.

All these last two games are showing is that the team has finally learned to win without TJ. That's not all because of TJ, but he is definitely a part of it. Players are exploring different areas on the court without him out there, they are gauging their offense and defensive positions. The toughness from the last two games has been remarkable. Ayton has been a revelation the last two.

Nothing gives me more pride as a Suns fan than seeing Giannis getting frustrated trying to put a move on Ayton, only to pass back out, miss or be blocked. He did still have an alright game, but Ayton put his stamp on the last two games. He was actually dominant, and what we hope to see more of in the future. He also finally put it on the floor and got to the rim. If our bad inlet passes are going to make him keep floating away from the key, that dribble step towards the hoop will be very important for him. But the defense....the defense..., the defense...hello Mr. Ayton, I see you.

Not ready to write off TJ just because we've won 4 games without him. Let's not forget we also won 10 games with him

[Kerrsed]

Booker=Kobe
Ayton=Shaq
Bridges=Horry
Oubre=Fox

[Crives]

Booker=Kobe
Ayton=Shaq
Bridges=Horry
Oubre=Fox

And Sarver = Sarver

[sunsbum]

Could you imagine thowing ball into our stretch man armstrong lineup?

Watching this team get after it on defense is so damn fun.

[bwoolf2]

I think this team needs some continuity as much as anything, resign Oubre keep the guys you have if you can make a great pickup do it but dont make a stupid signing, ie Ariza, just for the sake of signing someone, Rubio, Rozier, all feel like that type of move to me.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Good message from Johnson.

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