2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

Wilber85 · Post #1761 » by **Wilber85** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 5:34 pm

I've seen a lot of Josh Jackson trade ideas around the board.

Are we willing to give up Josh Jackson? I want to keep him around, I feel like he can be a perfect fit for the future

I would trade future 1st's, warren, chandler, bender for a PG. or just sign one next year. We arent going to win anything with some of the PG's y'all are mentioning.

Only PG that would make us somewhat relevant is Damian Lillard. The rest of the PG's would still keep us in the lotto. Why trade assets for consistent Lotto pics?

sunsbum · Post #1762 » by **sunsbum** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 5:41 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:I was a huge fan of Wall and have always thought he would be the perfect PG to takeover from a long line of great PG's we've had. But the more I've watched him over the years, he just became less and less the player I thought he would be. While he puts up amazing stats, has all the amazing athleticism and highlights, he hasn't lead the Wizards in WS since his rookie season. Now he's on his supermax deal and with the injury history, I just don't have any interest in the guy any more

His contract is outrageous.

BobbieL · Post #1763 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 6:29 pm

sunsbum wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I was a huge fan of Wall and have always thought he would be the perfect PG to takeover from a long line of great PG's we've had. But the more I've watched him over the years, he just became less and less the player I thought he would be. While he puts up amazing stats, has all the amazing athleticism and highlights, he hasn't lead the Wizards in WS since his rookie season. Now he's on his supermax deal and with the injury history, I just don't have any interest in the guy any more

His contract is outrageous.

Wall doesn't make sense. The contract is crazy and he just is not that good

My final three today - and it will probably change tomorrow but Hill, Dragic and Teodosic.

Goran - this is the third, least chance of the three

Hill - slightly better odds than Goran

Teodosic - just seems like the guy to get and the Clippers match up well with Tyson probably amenable to LA

Post #1764 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 7:36 pm

NavLDO wrote:
bigfoot wrote:
NavLDO wrote:
Going after a legit PG, since we decided not to keep Payton.

If McD would have shown the same willingness to 'overpay', I believe we would have acquired Lillard, Wall, Rondo, Lowry, or Dinwiddie. but honestly, keeping the player who had a top 12 AP48 last year for $3M might have been smart.

I'll echo your broken record, but EP was NOT our problem last year, and the fact that we gave up on him...choosing to believe he was the player of his last 9 games with us, rather than the player that was his first 10 games with us, was foolish. he proved he could be successful on this team, then hit a slump...either intentional (Tanking) or not, but the faact of the matter is, aall the arguments I see here AGAINST EP, start and end with his final 9-10 games with us, conveniently disregarding the first 7-8 games.

So yes, he did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#291-300-sum:pgl_basic

...but he also did this...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01/gamelog/2018#282-289-sum:pgl_basic

Only 17.1 Pts/ 7.5 Asst / 7.5 TRB on 49%FG , which included his subpar 29% 3PT shooting, but we knew he had issue with that from the get-go.

Anyway, point is, McD chose to overpay for a slightly above avg 3&D 32YO, when we just drafted a 3&D specialist in the Top10, choosing not to give him an opportunity to prove himself. Apparently you and others believe that was a smart idea, but IMO, we don't even know if Ariza will be helpful or hurtful, and if you don;t think Ariza presents a gamble, then I don;t know what to tell you. 41% FG% and 37% 3PT% are not stellar numbers. A DRtg of 107 and DBPM of .7 are hardly 'eye-popping' numbers.

So, you, but most likely others, will want to point to how he presents more than what the stat line tells you; well, I say that is bogus. Ariza is not 'all that and a bag of chips'. LeBron has his number, and has his entire career. I'm sure the response will be that everyone is susceptible to LeBron embarrassment, and while that is true, my point is, Ariza is nothing special.

Facts

1) Suns were the worst defensive team last year
2) Suns were the worst 3 point shooting team last year
3) Payton was a poor three point shooter and suspect defender
4) Ulis was a terrible defender and poor three point shooter
5) Jackson and Warren are poor three point shooters
6) Ariza is a good three point shooter and a plus defender
7) Bridges is a good three point shooter and a plus defender
8) Knight is a good three point shooter

Simply put McD jettisoned the players that were both poor three point shooters and defenders. He also drafted and signed players that were both good defenders and three point shooters. Players like Rondo would have been a bad get because of his three point shooting. Starting Rondo and Jackson/Warren would have killed spacing for Booker. With more legitimate 3-D players we can now spread the floor and give more room for Booker, Warren, Knight Melton, and Ayton to operate.

FIFY...

I understand what you are saying, but #6 is not a fact, it's an illusion. Go look at his last four seasons. 35.7% from 3. You consider that 'Good' ?? Look at his last three years of DBPM--0.3 , 1.0 , 0.7 with DRtgs of 108 , 108 , 107. Those numbers are not that great. Is that what you consider a 'Plus' defender? Anything over 0.0 DBPM?

#8 is also not a fact...do you really consider his 33.4% 3PT shooting as a Phoenix Sun as proof positive of him being a good 3PT shooter?

Yet, Rondo has shot 35.7% from 3 his past 3 seasons...better than Knight and equal to Ariza; and you were worried about spacing with Rondo??? And not Knight??

So, if you are basing your argument of your so called, 'facts', then you might want to reconsider. I understand your point, and I'm not saying you are totally off-base, but Ariza was not what this team needed with that $15M. That is all I'm saying.

I don't know why you always use BPM...it really kind of sucks for ranking defense. It basically works off the same kind of formula that PER and stuff do where rebounds, blocks and steals help you.

RPM is a much better indicator (though it has it's own flaws) if you are really looking at how much better the team plays defense when he is on the court, and he ranks fairly well defensively there, the same as PJ Tucker. There is a reason those guys played SO much against GS since they can switch on everyone.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5

35.7% on extremely high volume is pretty good. It equates to 53.5% from 2 on really high volume. His TS% was better than Booker last year.

Post #1765 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 7:38 pm

BobbieL wrote:
sunsbum wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I was a huge fan of Wall and have always thought he would be the perfect PG to takeover from a long line of great PG's we've had. But the more I've watched him over the years, he just became less and less the player I thought he would be. While he puts up amazing stats, has all the amazing athleticism and highlights, he hasn't lead the Wizards in WS since his rookie season. Now he's on his supermax deal and with the injury history, I just don't have any interest in the guy any more

His contract is outrageous.

Wall doesn't make sense. The contract is crazy and he just is not that good

My final three today - and it will probably change tomorrow but Hill, Dragic and Teodosic.

Goran - this is the third, least chance of the three

Hill - slightly better odds than Goran

Teodosic - just seems like the guy to get and the Clippers match up well with Tyson probably amenable to LA

You just say that about Tyson because he went to high school in LA? Is he better than Boban? Is there a real reason they would want Tyson other than trim their roster which they could do by getting rid of worse players than Boban and Teodosic. Seems they'd need more incentive.

BobbieL · Post #1766 » by **BobbieL** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 8:01 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
sunsbum wrote:
His contract is outrageous.

Wall doesn't make sense. The contract is crazy and he just is not that good

My final three today - and it will probably change tomorrow but Hill, Dragic and Teodosic.

Goran - this is the third, least chance of the three

Hill - slightly better odds than Goran

Teodosic - just seems like the guy to get and the Clippers match up well with Tyson probably amenable to LA

You just say that about Tyson because he went to high school in LA? Is he better than Boban? Is there a real reason they would want Tyson other than trim their roster which they could do by getting rid of worse players than Boban and Teodosic. Seems they'd need more incentive.

From what I have seen, I think Tyson is better. But maybe I have not seen enough Boban

I don’t see they cutting Beverly to save a roster spot. Wallace was signed to an offer sheet by the Pels so if the Clips match, another roster spot.

YouTube · Post #1767 » by **Kerrsed** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 8:28 pm

Lets create history.

Screw all these trades for a PG, lets just sign Diana Taurasi to run the point for the season. I mean what could it really hurt....and hasnt she done enough to deserve a chance?

It would be a gorundbreaking move, make this franchise a ton of cash, and maybe in a way help the WNBA along with this recent "Equal Pay" movement that has been started.

Honestly, i cant really see any bad coming from this. If a 5"9 180lb IT can play, why not a 6"0 175lb Female Jordan?

jcsunsfan · Post #1768 » by **jcsunsfan** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 8:31 pm

Kerrsed wrote:Lets create history.

Screw all these trades for a PG, lets just sign Diana Taurasi to run the point for the season. I mean what could it really hurt....and hasnt she done enough to deserve a chance?

It would be a gorundbreaking move, make this franchise a ton of cash, and maybe in a way help the WNBA along with this recent "Equal Pay" movement that has been started.

Honestly, i cant really see any bad coming from this. If a 5"9 180lb IT can play, why not a 6"0 175lb Female Jordan?

She would be overwhelmed quickly. Not trying to be disrespectful but the level of play in the WNBA is not NCAAM level.

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Post #1769 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 8:57 pm

Kerrsed wrote:Lets create history.

Screw all these trades for a PG, lets just sign Diana Taurasi to run the point for the season. I mean what could it really hurt....and hasnt she done enough to deserve a chance?

It would be a gorundbreaking move, make this franchise a ton of cash, and maybe in a way help the WNBA along with this recent "Equal Pay" movement that has been started.

Honestly, i cant really see any bad coming from this. If a 5"9 180lb IT can play, why not a 6"0 175lb Female Jordan?

Can't see any bad coming from it?

YouTube · Post #1770 » by **Kerrsed** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 9:06 pm

Arizona Royalty that has dominated everything everywhere. #WhyNot?

Blonde · Post #1771 » by **Blonde** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 9:41 pm

Kerrsed wrote:Arizona Royalty that has dominated everything everywhere. #WhyNot?

Why Not? Because she’d be the worst player in the NBA and G League.

Post #1772 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 9:52 pm

Right now she is a WNBA legend. She would be humiliated by defenders in the NBA. Booker and the rest of the team would probably be pissed that McD isn't taking building the team seriously (regardless of what he said/tweeted about her), but no one could say anything.

Sure it might be a nice media fun thing for a few minutes, but it would end badly like many or most things McD has attempted.

Flying Colors · Post #1773 » by **Flying Colors** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 9:52 pm

Screw it, its going to happen eventually, might as well happen to one of the most decorated women basketball players of all time

bigfoot · Post #1774 » by **bigfoot** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 10:13 pm

FYI Ann Meyers Drysdale (yes the ex-Suns Color Analyst who quietly retired this year on July 11, 2018) actually had a contract/tryout with the Indiana Pacers. Giving Diana a tryout wouldn't hurt.

Post #1775 » by **TASTIC** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 10:28 pm

Taurasi would get torched. Doesn't have the speed or athleticism to match a male counterpart, it's just physics. (I feel like Ron Burgundy saying that, but it's true).

WNBA legend for sure, but come on...Aaron Brooks doesn't have a contract yet and if he went to the WNBA he'd average 45 and 10.

LukasBMW · Post #1776 » by **LukasBMW** » Mon Sep 3, 2018 10:31 pm

Wilber85 wrote:I've seen a lot of Josh Jackson trade ideas around the board.

Are we willing to give up Josh Jackson? I want to keep him around, I feel like he can be a perfect fit for the future

I would trade future 1st's, warren, chandler, bender for a PG. or just sign one next year. We arent going to win anything with some of the PG's y'all are mentioning.

Only PG that would make us somewhat relevant is Damian Lillard. The rest of the PG's would still keep us in the lotto. Why trade assets for consistent Lotto pics?

I'd trade Jackson, the miami pick, our unprotected 1st, and Chandler + Daniels to the Blazers for Lillard:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9ranj7c

But I don't think that would even be close to a discussion.

Unless we can get a top 5 PG (Steph, Westbrook, Kyrie, Lillard) back for Jackson, we might as well keep him

Post #1777 » by **TASTIC** » Tue Sep 4, 2018 12:26 am

I could see the Hornets being keen on Warren and Jackson for Kemba. Prob need to include MIL pick and maybe Okobo or Melton.

Not sure I see the point, is adding Kemba enough to make the playoffs? Doubt it. The West is BRUTAL...

Post #1778 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Sep 4, 2018 12:37 am

TASTIC wrote:I could see the Hornets being keen on Warren and Jackson for Kemba. Prob need to include MIL pick and maybe Okobo or Melton.

Not sure I see the point, is adding Kemba enough to make the playoffs? Doubt it. The West is BRUTAL...

Why with MKG and Bridges? MKG was about as highly touted as Jackson in the day so if they are not high on him they might be weary on a guy like Jackson....but they might still like him. Then they just spent their highest pick on Miles Bridges. And they have Batum and Lamb. And Marvin Williams. They don't have much for PG depth though.

I think they want to make the playoffs and Kupchak said they wanted Kemba to retire a Hornet. First thing he said as GM basically. I think the only possibility he gets moved is if he says he wants out or won't re-sign. I also think they'd try and trade him for another starting caliber PG if they did trade him even if it was someone like Bledsoe. I can't see them trading him for wings unless they sent Batum out or something.

Jdiddy701 · Post #1779 » by **Jdiddy701** » Tue Sep 4, 2018 12:40 am

bigfoot wrote:FYI Ann Meyers Drysdale (yes the ex-Suns Color Analyst who quietly retired this year on July 11, 2018) actually had a contract/tryout with the Indiana Pacers. Giving Diana a tryout wouldn't hurt.

Wait what!!! I didn’t know she retired.

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bwoolf2 · Post #1780 » by **bwoolf2** » Tue Sep 4, 2018 1:03 am

I was a huge fan of Jackson but his shot is a huge concern moving forward. Ran into him and Booker in Old Town yesterday and despite what it appears like on social media they are both really thin, and Jackson is bone skinny needs to put on some serious weight to be the plus defender he was supposed to be coming out of college.