Official Trade Thread: New Year, New Thread, New Laughs

letsgosuns · Post #1781 » by **letsgosuns** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:40 am

When the Suns finish 9th this season, get the 14th pick of the draft, Goran Dragic leaves, Green leaves, and the Suns are stuck in the same position as last year where they did not develop their young guys, fans will be complaining again. I already said, if you do not like the Joe Johnson idea, fine. Think of another trade for Dragic. He is going to leave. Johnson was an idea because I believe he brings something the Suns sorely lack. Veteran leadership, experience closing games, and the ability to to guard other shooting guards. He has a big salary so you have to trade several players for him.

I do not like Isaiah Thomas, obviously. I do not believe in players that are 5'9" winning championships in this league. Big wins. Just like Phil Jackson said this is a big man's game. How can you fault me for that being my opinion. You can throw out all the advanced statistics you want at me. I watch the game and say wow, Thomas takes really dumb shots a lot of the time. He dribbles the ball all around and does not set up players for easy shots. Is he a good scorer? Hell yeah he is an awesome scorer. Do I care? Not really. Why? Because you do not win championships with selfish point guards. His height just makes it all that much worse. I could not stand Allen Iverson either. Incredible scorer but incredibly selfish. The Suns have a flawed team with so many point guards. Dragic said it himself earlier in the season. They have three point guards and only one ball.

letsgosuns · Post #1782 » by **letsgosuns** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:42 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
He was one of 4 players in the entire league to average 20 and 8 last year. One of 4. His stats also make him a frontrunner for 6th man of the year this year. I don't need any more justification than that to say he could be a bench player on a title team. Name me one high school dropout who started a computer company and was successful before people started actually doing it? The fact that it hasn't happened proves nothing about IT. Name me the last time a 5'9" PG started in the NBA and put up 20 and 8 at 24? 2 years ago you could've used your very same argument to say the season he had was impossible.

When someone advocates trading Goran Dragic for Joe Johnson in this day and age, there is a right and wrong, not a differing opinion. It's that bad.

That's because the general population still considers Dragic a PG, so why would he be on there? Just compare his numbers to theirs and what he did defensively while playing the 2 for us to what those guys did. Dragic's season last year was one that has statistically only happened about 7 times in the past 2 decades. And never quote some fan blogger with 37 twitter followers as an authority on anything. I can find a fan blog that will claim literally anything. Dragic is considered a top 60 trade asset in this league according to Bill Simmons, while Joe Johnson is universally considered one of the 5 worst contracts in the entire league. Goran was 3rd team all NBA last year and for the past 26 games has put up those same numbers.

Read the AZcentral article I just posted. Goes to show why I do not consider Dragic a shooting guard. He even said himself it is hard for him to guard other shooting guards. And no there is not a right or wrong about trading Goran Dragic for Joe Johnson. I would do it. You would not. Seriously, how the hell is it that bad. They average virtually the exact same statistics. Look:

Dragic: 16.7 PPG 3.6 RPG 4.0 APG 77.1% FT 51.2% FG 34.8% 3P% 33 MPG
Johnson: 15.7 PPG 4.7 RPG 3.8 APG 80.8% FT 42.7% FG 36.4% 3P% 35.7 MPG

Those stats nearly identical. The only difference is overall field goal percentage. Sure Dragic is younger and is in his prime right now while Johnson is past his prime. However, like I keep saying, Dragic is a point guard on a team that is overloaded with point guards and is most likely going to leave as a free agent. Johnson is a 6'7" true shooting guard and the Suns team lacks a reliable shooting guard that can guard other shooting guards. So again, you might not agree with the trade, but that is your opinion, not a fact. Dragic was all NBA last year. This year he has had a major drop off. He also has zero all star appearances. Joe Johnson was all nba one time but he also has made seven all star games, including last year.

I won't read your article. I'm going to go do something else. This will be my last post on this subject. The fact that you think a 10% difference in FG% is nearly identical shows all I need. Also, you should look at the trend in those numbers. Dragic, for the past nearly 30 games, has rebounded from his slow start and is matching last year's 51/41/76 percentages on 20, 6, 3. Given that trend and what Dragic has done over the more relevant, larger sample size of the past 1.5 seasons, the only thing Joe has on Dragic in the offensive arsenal is a slightly better FT% and 1 more RPG in 2 more MPG. Not to mention Joe gets to play most of his games against the East, so he's putting up worse numbers against worse competition.

You do not want to read the article? Written by Paul Coro with quotes from Dragic explaining why he is having such a difficult time guarding shooting guards. I guess words straight from the source is not good enough for you. I also said the difference is overall field goal percentage. Did you even read what I wrote?

MrMiyagi · Post #1783 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:42 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Joe Johnson is making 23 and 24 million dollars for this season and next. Why the hell would you trade for that contract?

He's also 33 years old!

I don't even know how we make that trade work without either throwing in Bledsoe or half our roster to make the money match up.

DirtyDez · Post #1784 » by **DirtyDez** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:44 am

WT

"Goran Dragic to give every team an equal opportunity in FA". Yeah no **** why wouldn't he, b/c we signed his brother? :lol:

letsgosuns · Post #1785 » by **letsgosuns** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:49 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:Joe Johnson is making 23 and 24 million dollars for this season and next. Why the hell would you trade for that contract?

He's also 33 years old!

I don't even know how we make that trade work without either throwing in Bledsoe or half our roster to make the money match up.

G. Dragic, Z. Dragic, Green, Thomas, and Plumlee works money wise.

This trade is not just about Joe Johnson. This trade opens up lots of playing time for Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis. The Suns are not going anywhere this year. That is my whole point. They need a trade. Instead of losing Dragic and Green for nothing, you can get Joe Johnson to be a mentor and his ability to hit big shots down the stretch. He is only signed through next year. I am more excited about doing this trade because I want to see the young guys play.

Revived · Post #1786 » by **Revived** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:50 am

bigfoot wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
bigfoot wrote:Trade Green and a second round pick for Jared Dudley. Our second unit gets better defensively and has a high IQ leader to help them out.

We would never have to include a 2nd rounder for Dudley. Like it or not, Green, who got some 6th man of the year recognition as a candidate last year, is worth way more than Dudley.

Green and Dudley are basically the same age. Now take a look at this link.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 4=&p5=&p6=

Dudley has better shooting percentages for 2pt and 3pt, way, way fewer turnovers, more assists, more rebounds, more steals, better offensive and defensive rating. In the past, Dudley has received votes for both sixth man of the year and NBA all-defensive team. Finally, Jared's BBIQ is Einsteinian compared to Green. Green needs to go, period. He's hurting our team.

Been saying this for a very long time.

Only people who think Green is so good are people who just watch highlights and see his dunks and 3s on SportsCenter top 10.

MrMiyagi · Post #1787 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:51 am

letsgosuns wrote:When the Suns finish 9th this season, get the 14th pick of the draft, Goran Dragic leaves, Green leaves, and the Suns are stuck in the same position as last year where they did not develop their young guys, fans will be complaining again. I already said, if you do not like the Joe Johnson idea, fine. Think of another trade for Dragic. He is going to leave. Johnson was an idea because I believe he brings something the Suns sorely lack. Veteran leadership, experience closing games, and the ability to to guard other shooting guards. He has a big salary so you have to trade several players for him.

I do not like Isaiah Thomas, obviously. I do not believe in players that are 5'9" winning championships in this league. Big wins. Just like Phil Jackson said this is a big man's game. How can you fault me for that being my opinion. You can throw out all the advanced statistics you want at me. I watch the game and say wow, Thomas takes really dumb shots a lot of the time. He dribbles the ball all around and does not set up players for easy shots. Is he a good scorer? Hell yeah he is an awesome scorer. Do I care? Not really. Why? Because you do not win championships with selfish point guards. His height just makes it all that much worse. I could not stand Allen Iverson either. Incredible scorer but incredibly selfish. The Suns have a flawed team with so many point guards. Dragic said it himself earlier in the Suns. They have three point guards and only one ball.

You do realize that IT is a sixth man, right? You realize that Dallas and San Antonio both had "me first" (by your definition) sixth men when they won their championships?

I get that we need a perimeter defender, but Joe Johnson is not a very good one, he's old and he makes way too much money for us to even consider trading for him.

MrMiyagi · Post #1788 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:53 am

letsgosuns wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
He's also 33 years old!

I don't even know how we make that trade work without either throwing in Bledsoe or half our roster to make the money match up.

G. Dragic, Z. Dragic, Green, Thomas, and Plumlee works money wise.

This trade is not just about Joe Johnson. This trade opens up lots of playing time for Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis. The Suns are not going anywhere this year. That is my whole point. They need a trade. Instead of losing Dragic and Green for nothing, you can get Joe Johnson to be a mentor and his ability to hit big shots down the stretch. He is only signed through next year. I am more excited about doing this trade because I want to see the young guys play.

I'm confused as hell. Why would we trade for Joe Johnson because we aren't going anywhere this season? Why not just let Green and Dragic walk to open up the playing time and possibly sign a free agent to help us instead of strangling our cap?

MrMiyagi · Post #1789 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:57 am

I'm starting to wonder if letsgosuns is actually Joe Johnson campaigning to come back to Phoenix, because nothing about trading for Joe Johnson makes sense. At all.

letsgosuns · Post #1790 » by **letsgosuns** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:00 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:I don't even know how we make that trade work without either throwing in Bledsoe or half our roster to make the money match up.

G. Dragic, Z. Dragic, Green, Thomas, and Plumlee works money wise.

This trade is not just about Joe Johnson. This trade opens up lots of playing time for Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis. The Suns are not going anywhere this year. That is my whole point. They need a trade. Instead of losing Dragic and Green for nothing, you can get Joe Johnson to be a mentor and his ability to hit big shots down the stretch. He is only signed through next year. I am more excited about doing this trade because I want to see the young guys play.

I'm confused as hell. Why would we trade for Joe Johnson because we aren't going anywhere this season? Why not just let Green and Dragic walk to open up the playing time and possibly sign a free agent to help us instead of strangling our cap?

Haha. Okay. I believe trading for Johnson gives the Suns a better chance to try to make the playoffs this year rather than having Goran Dragic, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, and Z. Dragic. That might sound insane but Johnson has experience and is a closer. Green and Thomas have low bball iq's. Plumlee sucks now. Z. Dragic never plays. I hate the dual point guard lineup the Suns start now. Plus this trade allows Bledsoe to take full reigns of the team. At the very least, if it does not work out, it opens up playing time for the young guys which is what excites me the most. I do not want to wait. The Suns are not in championship contention. Play the young guys as much as possible. This trade lets that happen while at the same time the Suns get a guy who is an experienced all star shooting guard. I do not consider G. Dragic, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, or Z. Dragic part of the future of the team.

gaspar · Post #1791 » by **gaspar** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:05 am

letsgosuns wrote:
The Suns trade G. Dragic, Thomas, Green, Plumlee, and Z. Dragic for Joe Johnson.

This is BY FAR the dumbest trade proposal I've seen on this forum, ever. Sorry buddy, but you're an imbecile.

AtheJ415 · Post #1792 » by **AtheJ415** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:05 am

letsgosuns wrote:When the Suns finish 9th this season, get the 14th pick of the draft, Goran Dragic leaves, Green leaves, and the Suns are stuck in the same position as last year where they did not develop their young guys, fans will be complaining again. I already said, if you do not like the Joe Johnson idea, fine. Think of another trade for Dragic. He is going to leave. Johnson was an idea because I believe he brings something the Suns sorely lack. Veteran leadership, experience closing games, and the ability to to guard other shooting guards. He has a big salary so you have to trade several players for him.

If Goran and Green leave, we're in a better position than if we add Joe. Adding Joe while losing Thomas and Plumlee also makes us worse. The bolded above is why the Nets are literally trying to give him away. He is not worth his giant salary (2nd or 3rd highest paid player in the league). If they could trade him to a team without taking salary back they would do it in a heartbeat. How you can consider IT a bad deal and Joe not is just astonishing. IT, Goran and Bledsoe combined would barely be higher than what Joe makes. Having to throw in all those guys to make the salary work isn't a matter of fact thing that you can shrug off, it's a fatal flaw to making this any semblance of anything other than an awful deal. Taking on a non-expiring $24 million, 33 year old guard is the absolute worst thing we could do. Re-signing Michael Beasley makes as much sense.

MrMiyagi · Post #1793 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:06 am

letsgosuns wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
G. Dragic, Z. Dragic, Green, Thomas, and Plumlee works money wise.

This trade is not just about Joe Johnson. This trade opens up lots of playing time for Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis. The Suns are not going anywhere this year. That is my whole point. They need a trade. Instead of losing Dragic and Green for nothing, you can get Joe Johnson to be a mentor and his ability to hit big shots down the stretch. He is only signed through next year. I am more excited about doing this trade because I want to see the young guys play.

I'm confused as hell. Why would we trade for Joe Johnson because we aren't going anywhere this season? Why not just let Green and Dragic walk to open up the playing time and possibly sign a free agent to help us instead of strangling our cap?

Haha. Okay. I believe trading for Johnson gives the Suns a better chance to try to make the playoffs this year rather than having Goran Dragic, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, and Z. Dragic. That might sound insane but Johnson has experience and is a closer. Green and Thomas have low bball iq's. Plumlee sucks now. Z. Dragic never plays. I hate the dual point guard lineup the Suns start now. Plus this trade allows Bledsoe to take full reigns of the team. At the very least, if it does not work out, it opens up playing time for the young guys which is what excites me the most. I do not want to wait. The Suns are not in championship contention. Play the young guys as much as possible. This trade lets that happen while at the same time the Suns get a guy who is an experienced all star shooting guard. I do not consider G. Dragic, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, or Z. Dragic part of the future of the team.

I'll just say that I'm glad you are not our GM. You are trading away 44 points per game and expecting Joe Johnson to replace that and lead us to the playoffs.......... :crazy:

letsgosuns · Post #1794 » by **letsgosuns** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:13 am

I just think much more highly of Joe Johnson than you guys do. I also have a disdain for a team that plays three point guards and am willing do most anything to get rid of that and play the young guys. If the Suns could salary dump Thomas for a 2020 second round pick I would do that. That is how much I hate his game. That is how much I would rather see the young guys play instead of Thomas out there playing. I would love to see Alex Len get at least ten shots a game. But the three point guards do not let that happen. I would love to see Goodwin and his freak athleticism out there but I have to watch watch a 6'3", 6'1", and 5'9" group of point guards play altogether instead. It seems the Suns think they can compete for a title with a group of three point guards. More power to them I guess.

letsgosuns · Post #1795 » by **letsgosuns** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:16 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:I'm confused as hell. Why would we trade for Joe Johnson because we aren't going anywhere this season? Why not just let Green and Dragic walk to open up the playing time and possibly sign a free agent to help us instead of strangling our cap?

Haha. Okay. I believe trading for Johnson gives the Suns a better chance to try to make the playoffs this year rather than having Goran Dragic, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, and Z. Dragic. That might sound insane but Johnson has experience and is a closer. Green and Thomas have low bball iq's. Plumlee sucks now. Z. Dragic never plays. I hate the dual point guard lineup the Suns start now. Plus this trade allows Bledsoe to take full reigns of the team. At the very least, if it does not work out, it opens up playing time for the young guys which is what excites me the most. I do not want to wait. The Suns are not in championship contention. Play the young guys as much as possible. This trade lets that happen while at the same time the Suns get a guy who is an experienced all star shooting guard. I do not consider G. Dragic, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, or Z. Dragic part of the future of the team.

I'll just say that I'm glad you are not our GM. You are trading away 44 points per game and expecting Joe Johnson to replace that and lead us to the playoffs..........

No. I am expecting Joe Johnson to help while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis can become the new bench crew while they are developing for the future. Johnson replaces Dragic while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis replace Thomas and Green.

MrMiyagi · Post #1796 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:21 am

letsgosuns wrote:I just think much more highly of Joe Johnson than you guys do. I also have a disdain for a team that plays three point guards and am willing do most anything to get rid of that and play the young guys. If the Suns could salary dump Thomas for a 2020 second round pick I would do that. That is how much I hate his game. That is how much I would rather see the young guys play instead of Thomas out there playing. I would love to see Alex Len get at least ten shots a game. But the three point guards do not let that happen. I would love to see Goodwin and his freak athleticism out there but I have to watch watch a 6'3", 6'1", and 5'9" group of point guards play altogether instead. It seems the Suns think they can compete for a title with a group of three point guards. More power to them I guess.

If you're so concerned and certain that height is the determining factor, why isn't Hasheem Thabeet dominating the NBA?

Just about any other move would be better than the Suns giving up 5 players, 3 of which are averaging more than 13 points per game, for Joe Johnson....

**** I'd do IT and a filler for Lance Stephenson before I'd trade for Joe Johnson.

letsgosuns · Post #1797 » by **letsgosuns** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:23 am

A lot of you guys love Demarcus Cousins even though I am not a big fan of his. Well do not forget what he said about Isaiah Thomas: “It’s been incredible, it’s been incredible,” Cousins said. “It’s been a smooth transition. The ball is moving a lot better. It’s not stuck in one place. It’s not being overdribbled by anybody on the floor.” The Kings are not a good team with or without Isaiah Thomas. But their star player sure is happy that he is gone.

MrMiyagi · Post #1798 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:24 am

letsgosuns wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:
Haha. Okay. I believe trading for Johnson gives the Suns a better chance to try to make the playoffs this year rather than having Goran Dragic, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, and Z. Dragic. That might sound insane but Johnson has experience and is a closer. Green and Thomas have low bball iq's. Plumlee sucks now. Z. Dragic never plays. I hate the dual point guard lineup the Suns start now. Plus this trade allows Bledsoe to take full reigns of the team. At the very least, if it does not work out, it opens up playing time for the young guys which is what excites me the most. I do not want to wait. The Suns are not in championship contention. Play the young guys as much as possible. This trade lets that happen while at the same time the Suns get a guy who is an experienced all star shooting guard. I do not consider G. Dragic, Green, Thomas, Plumlee, or Z. Dragic part of the future of the team.

I'll just say that I'm glad you are not our GM. You are trading away 44 points per game and expecting Joe Johnson to replace that and lead us to the playoffs..........

No. I am expecting Joe Johnson to help while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis can become the new bench crew while they are developing for the future. Johnson replaces Dragic while Goodwin, Warren, and Ennis replace Thomas and Green.

What makes Joe Johnson so special that he can mentor our young guys better than the guys we have now? And weren't you just saying that they aren't ready and that next season is going to be a **** without Dragic and Green because they aren't ready? None of this makes any sense.

You also said that Joe would help us make the playoffs.......

MrMiyagi · Post #1799 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:27 am

letsgosuns wrote:A lot of you guys love Demarcus Cousins even though I am not a big fan of his. Well do not forget what he said about Isaiah Thomas: “It’s been incredible, it’s been incredible,” Cousins said. “It’s been a smooth transition. The ball is moving a lot better. It’s not stuck in one place. It’s not being overdribbled by anybody on the floor.” The Kings are not a good team with or without Isaiah Thomas. But their star player sure is happy that he is gone.

And Sacramento is still terrible. I don't think IT was the problem.

ryanball · Post #1800 » by **ryanball** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:31 am

letsgosuns wrote:I do not like Isaiah Thomas, obviously. I do not believe in players that are 5'9" winning championships in this league. Is he a good scorer? Hell yeah he is an awesome scorer. Do I care? Not really. Why? Because you do not win championships with selfish point guards. His height just makes it all that much worse.

I pretty much agree with that. However, its not like we're trying to build the team around him or expect him to win us championships. What he appears to be is simply an excellent value given his current contract. So what we have is an efficient scorer off the bench, who is young and could possibly still improve, and he is not costing us too much money.