2016 Draft

[rsavaj]

Last night's win really hurt our lotto chances. WAS pick got worse, and now there's a good chance we'll end up with the 4th worst record instead of the 3rd

UGH.

[rsavaj]

... without big signing Suns can't compete for playoffs.

Disagree. We have a ton of talent on paper. The questions are, in my mind:

1. Is there a coach that can get this squad to play the right way?
2. Can we stay healthy?

I think we have a chance to make a big improvement next year without making any big additions.

I'm not seeing the talent you're seeing. I see Bledsoe with an injury history, Booker, and then a lot of role players.

[saintEscaton]

We are SO behind the likes of Minny, Milwaukee and Utah, and we had a head start in the rebuild compared to the more promising young cores

[jcsunsfan]

We are SO behind the likes of Minny, Milwaukee and Utah, and we had a head start in the rebuild compared to the more promising young cores

Really? We had a head start? The Suns have had an above .500 record for six out of ten years and had a winning record as few as three years ago. We were in the conference finals six years ago.

The Jazz have been rebuilding since 2010-11. They made the playoffs once in a strike shortened year and lost in the first round.

Milwaukee has had one season above .500 in ten years. They have been a treadmill team in the horrible east. They would not have made the playoffs once had they played in the west.

Minnesota has not had a winning record in 10 years and has not made the playoffs in eleven years.

We should be ahead of the Jazz, but they are the only ones. The aberration year set us back.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

We are SO behind the likes of Minny, Milwaukee and Utah, and we had a head start in the rebuild compared to the more promising young cores

Really? We had a head start? The Suns have had an above .500 record for six out of ten years and had a winning record as few as three years ago. We were in the conference finals six years ago.

The Jazz have been rebuilding since 2010-11. They made the playoffs once in a strike shortened year and lost in the first round.

Milwaukee has had one season above .500 in ten years. They have been a treadmill team in the horrible east. They would not have made the playoffs once had they played in the west.

Minnesota has not had a winning record in 10 years and has not made the playoffs in eleven years.

We should be ahead of the Jazz, but they are the only ones. The aberration year set us back.

I don't think the aberration year set us back much, if at all. Allowed us to get more value for Dragic than he was worth. We drafted TJ Warren that year - had we picked 5th, I don't think we would have drafted a better player (maybe LaVine). The only thing that set us back was finishing ahead of Minny - had we finished behind them, we would have had the #13 and #14 rather than just the #14.

Not you, JC, but many others... The negativity on Suns message boards these days is borderline delirious. Thing that bothers me most is, no one ever says they were wrong in hindsight, they only ever say the FO was wrong in hindsight. So if we finish next season with 48 or 50 wins, no one around here will say they were wrong about the talent on this team or the management. And they certainly won't doubt themselves the next time they start with their wild prognostications and diagnoses. I just can't respond to mst of the posters around here. I don't get where they're coming from at all.

[bwgood77]

We are SO behind the likes of Minny, Milwaukee and Utah, and we had a head start in the rebuild compared to the more promising young cores

Really? We had a head start? The Suns have had an above .500 record for six out of ten years and had a winning record as few as three years ago. We were in the conference finals six years ago.

The Jazz have been rebuilding since 2010-11. They made the playoffs once in a strike shortened year and lost in the first round.

Milwaukee has had one season above .500 in ten years. They have been a treadmill team in the horrible east. They would not have made the playoffs once had they played in the west.

Minnesota has not had a winning record in 10 years and has not made the playoffs in eleven years.

We should be ahead of the Jazz, but they are the only ones. The aberration year set us back.

I don't know if we should even be ahead of the Jazz. You say we started our rebuild at the same time, but they were able to get a lot out of the Deron Williams trade (Favors, Devin Harris and two firsts), and we started the rebuild at the same time. I'd say they had a head start and should be ahead as well.

[saintEscaton]

We will be having the same conversation a year from now you can quote me on it. This FO does not deserve the benefit of the doubt, if anything they don't get enough flack. There isn't even a process to speak of, at least Hinkie was committed to go all the way even if it costed him his job

[saintEscaton]

Anyways back to the draft. I guess this makes Bender more enticing, although he shouldn't be expected to be an immediate contributor

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IAmDPick/status/717716673105625088[/tweet]

[bwgood77]

We will be having the same conversation a year from now you can quote me on it. This FO does not deserve the benefit of the doubt, if anything they don't get enough flack. There isn't even a process to speak of, at least Hinkie was committed to go all the way even if it costed him his job

Yeah, the fact that we can't even sit our vets to not risk health when a loss helps us possibly build the team better for the future and even teams like Brooklyn, who don't even benefit from team building for the future because of it, sits them just to prevent injury, there is something wrong.

[AtheJ415]

No. What cost Hinkie his job was awful drafting. He had top picks and arguably has worse players than the Suns got in the late lotto over that timeframe. In particular, he drafted 3 centers who can't play together and a Euro PF who is still overseas.

If you're going to tank, you can't afford to mess up the draft.

[saintEscaton]

No. What cost Hinkie his job was awful drafting. He had top picks and arguably has worse players than the Suns got in the late lotto over that timeframe. In particular, he drafted 3 centers who can't play together and a Euro PF who is still overseas.

If you're going to tank, you can't afford to mess up the draft.

Hinkie's only bad move was gifting away Vucevic to the Magic and setting the reset button too early, he has taken everyone else to the cleaners including the Holiday/Knight deals. Whatever success Bryan Colangelo has will be attribued to the foundation he sacrifically built. Sure you can fault him for going BPA over fit when bigs are being devalued, but he has made the best of those situations. At the end of the day Philly has better chips to pawn off. Can't blame him for not passing on a can't miss talent like Embiid despite his injury history, Noel is still a DPOY caliber center when played in position, and Jah is already light years ahead of Kanter/Al Jefferson as a high volume post scorer/passer

[AtheJ415]

No. What cost Hinkie his job was awful drafting. He had top picks and arguably has worse players than the Suns got in the late lotto over that timeframe. In particular, he drafted 3 centers who can't play together and a Euro PF who is still overseas.

If you're going to tank, you can't afford to mess up the draft.

Hinkie's only bad move was gifting away Vucevic to the Magic and setting the reset button too early, he has taken everyone else to the cleaners including the Holiday/Knight deals. Whatever success Bryan Colangelo has will be attribued to the foundation he sacrifically built. Sure you can fault him for going BPA over fit when bigs are being devalued, but he has made the best of those situations. At the end of the day Philly has better chips to pawn off. Can't blame him for not passing on a can't miss talent like Embiid despite his injury history, Noel is still a DPOY caliber center when played in position, and Jah is more than Kanter/Jefferson he is a legit high volume post scorer

Only bad move? He drafted 3 guys as his top picks who cannot play together whatsoever. That is horrible decisionmaking. His only logic behind it was trading them later for more, but that can't happen when guys don't thrive on the court, which they can't when they are horrible fits together. Okafor is his best pick and he has a PER which suggests his offensive numbers are inflated (similar to MCW) and plays 0 defense while beating civilians after their girlfriends won't give them their phone numbers and they give him **** for his team sucking. Kanter is not somebody who should be a benchmark for a top 3 pick.

The truth is an Embiid, Okafor, Noel frontcourt scares nobody. You clog the paint with your hands up because there is no shooting to be found in any of those guys, which also kills the ability to drive from the guards and forwards. All 3 have talent, but you can't play them together. That's a real problem that he simply ignored for 3 years.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

No. What cost Hinkie his job was awful drafting. He had top picks and arguably has worse players than the Suns got in the late lotto over that timeframe. In particular, he drafted 3 centers who can't play together and a Euro PF who is still overseas.

If you're going to tank, you can't afford to mess up the draft.

Hinkie's only bad move was gifting away Vucevic to the Magic and setting the reset button too early, he has taken everyone else to the cleaners including the Holiday/Knight deals. Whatever success Bryan Colangelo has will be attribued to the foundation he sacrifically built. Sure you can fault him for going BPA over fit when bigs are being devalued, but he has made the best of those situations. At the end of the day Philly has better chips to pawn off. Can't blame him for not passing on a can't miss talent like Embiid despite his injury history, Noel is still a DPOY caliber center when played in position, and Jah is more than Kanter/Jefferson he is a legit high volume post scorer

Only bad move? He drafted 3 guys as his top picks who cannot play together whatsoever. That is horrible decisionmaking. His only logic behind it was trading them later for more, but that can't happen when guys don't thrive on the court, which they can't when they are horrible fits together. Okafor is his best pick and he has a PER which suggests his offensive numbers are inflated (similar to MCW) and plays 0 defense while beating civilians after their girlfriends won't give them their phone numbers and they give him **** for his team sucking. Kanter is not somebody who should be a benchmark for a top 3 pick.

The truth is an Embiid, Okafor, Noel frontcourt scares nobody. You clog the paint with your hands up because there is no shooting to be found in any of those guys, which also kills the ability to drive from the guards and forwards. All 3 have talent, but you can't play them together. That's a real problem that he simply ignored for 3 years.

I thought drafting Jah was just stubborn. He was the one guy they really couldn't draft, but instead of finding a way to trade down, he just took him. As I've said elsewhere, draft picks are like cars - generally, they go down in value after you drive them off the lot. If you hit on a star, though, the opposite can occur (see Booker or KAT - I'm sure KAT could be traded for the #1 pick in this draft and much more). Tanking for one or two years is okay, but at some point, your players need to have a team to play on. Noel hits RFA in a season, and the clock starts. If they don't start the clock (and it did look like Hinkie's plan was to tank indefinitely), then... well you just suck for a long time. No reason to tank more than two years in a row. At some point, you have to build. And he wasn't building anything.

I understood his plan, but it looked like he was just going to dive as deep into the draft as possible for as long as it took to get a superstar. And you can tank all you want, but you don't own the ping pong balls. Tanking makes sense until it doesn't.

[Saberestar]

Agent Rich Paul: Ben Simmons won't play 4 Australia n 2016 Olympics n Rio. Will focus on NBA activities & look 2 play 4 Australia n future.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Chris_Broussard

[thamadkant]

No. What cost Hinkie his job was awful drafting. He had top picks and arguably has worse players than the Suns got in the late lotto over that timeframe. In particular, he drafted 3 centers who can't play together and a Euro PF who is still overseas.

If you're going to tank, you can't afford to mess up the draft.

This exactly it.

Hinkie used draftexpress and other draft sites to make his pick.

Easiest 500K plus a year job he had.

[thamadkant]

If I was Hinkie... I would of shopped that 3rd pick...

Knicks liked Okafor... They could of done a deal for 4th pick and a future protected.. Could of gotten Porzingis. But best non trade Phil Jackson did... He had a feeling Porzingis will pay off and stayed at his slot.



Hinkie conned the 76ers ownership to pay him that much money to NOT do anything a janitor who watches NBA cant do.

[thamadkant]

I really think Suns should trade out if the pick is outside top 2.


The 22 year old scoring guards available in the top 7 are dominating teenages and players a couple of years younger than them. I just see future role players.


I think Suns have a couple of picks that they can afford to package to get a legit team going forward.


Cant just rely on getting lucky on the draft night... You need that dominant player to help the young players out by drawing more defensive attention.



If 76ers rang to trade Okafor and Saric for Suns pick and Knight and maybe Len.. I pull that trade.


Maybe even a trade around Suns pick and Len for Okafor and a future pick.


Len is being used incorrectly... AND unless Chandler gets traded... i think Len will continue to shoot sub 40% from places he is just not good at.

Okafor in the other hand is a much better offensive player and can draw double teams due to his skill set. I see a future 20ppg as soon as next season.

[jcsunsfan]

We are SO behind the likes of Minny, Milwaukee and Utah, and we had a head start in the rebuild compared to the more promising young cores

Really? We had a head start? The Suns have had an above .500 record for six out of ten years and had a winning record as few as three years ago. We were in the conference finals six years ago.

The Jazz have been rebuilding since 2010-11. They made the playoffs once in a strike shortened year and lost in the first round.

Milwaukee has had one season above .500 in ten years. They have been a treadmill team in the horrible east. They would not have made the playoffs once had they played in the west.

Minnesota has not had a winning record in 10 years and has not made the playoffs in eleven years.

We should be ahead of the Jazz, but they are the only ones. The aberration year set us back.

I don't know if we should even be ahead of the Jazz. You say we started our rebuild at the same time, but they were able to get a lot out of the Deron Williams trade (Favors, Devin Harris and two firsts), and we started the rebuild at the same time. I'd say they had a head start and should be ahead as well.

I would agree with that. Trading Deron was the beginning of their rebuild.

[jcsunsfan]

No. What cost Hinkie his job was awful drafting. He had top picks and arguably has worse players than the Suns got in the late lotto over that timeframe. In particular, he drafted 3 centers who can't play together and a Euro PF who is still overseas.

If you're going to tank, you can't afford to mess up the draft.

Hinkie's only bad move was gifting away Vucevic to the Magic and setting the reset button too early, he has taken everyone else to the cleaners including the Holiday/Knight deals. Whatever success Bryan Colangelo has will be attribued to the foundation he sacrifically built. Sure you can fault him for going BPA over fit when bigs are being devalued, but he has made the best of those situations. At the end of the day Philly has better chips to pawn off. Can't blame him for not passing on a can't miss talent like Embiid despite his injury history, Noel is still a DPOY caliber center when played in position, and Jah is more than Kanter/Jefferson he is a legit high volume post scorer

Only bad move? He drafted 3 guys as his top picks who cannot play together whatsoever. That is horrible decisionmaking. His only logic behind it was trading them later for more, but that can't happen when guys don't thrive on the court, which they can't when they are horrible fits together. Okafor is his best pick and he has a PER which suggests his offensive numbers are inflated (similar to MCW) and plays 0 defense while beating civilians after their girlfriends won't give them their phone numbers and they give him **** for his team sucking. Kanter is not somebody who should be a benchmark for a top 3 pick.

The truth is an Embiid, Okafor, Noel frontcourt scares nobody. You clog the paint with your hands up because there is no shooting to be found in any of those guys, which also kills the ability to drive from the guards and forwards. All 3 have talent, but you can't play them together. That's a real problem that he simply ignored for 3 years.

This is the problem with the "gathering assets" stage. You need to move out of it pretty quickly or the losing atmosphere on the team destroys the assets you have gathered. You don't want to be in contention for that top pick for more than two years--only one if you can help it. Every team needs quality veteran leadership to help set the tone for the locker room.

Danny Ainge did a good job of rebuilding when he started with the Celtics. That was the fast mode. OKC did a decent job in the last few years in Seattle and then going into OKC. But your goal is really only 3 players or so. They nabbed Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, and Harden. The problem is that when you build like that through the draft, its hard to hang on to all the players. They all come up for big contracts too close together.

[bwgood77]

No. What cost Hinkie his job was awful drafting. He had top picks and arguably has worse players than the Suns got in the late lotto over that timeframe. In particular, he drafted 3 centers who can't play together and a Euro PF who is still overseas.

If you're going to tank, you can't afford to mess up the draft.

Hinkie's only bad move was gifting away Vucevic to the Magic and setting the reset button too early, he has taken everyone else to the cleaners including the Holiday/Knight deals. Whatever success Bryan Colangelo has will be attribued to the foundation he sacrifically built. Sure you can fault him for going BPA over fit when bigs are being devalued, but he has made the best of those situations. At the end of the day Philly has better chips to pawn off. Can't blame him for not passing on a can't miss talent like Embiid despite his injury history, Noel is still a DPOY caliber center when played in position, and Jah is more than Kanter/Jefferson he is a legit high volume post scorer

Only bad move? He drafted 3 guys as his top picks who cannot play together whatsoever. That is horrible decisionmaking. His only logic behind it was trading them later for more, but that can't happen when guys don't thrive on the court, which they can't when they are horrible fits together. Okafor is his best pick and he has a PER which suggests his offensive numbers are inflated (similar to MCW) and plays 0 defense while beating civilians after their girlfriends won't give them their phone numbers and they give him **** for his team sucking. Kanter is not somebody who should be a benchmark for a top 3 pick.

The truth is an Embiid, Okafor, Noel frontcourt scares nobody. You clog the paint with your hands up because there is no shooting to be found in any of those guys, which also kills the ability to drive from the guards and forwards. All 3 have talent, but you can't play them together. That's a real problem that he simply ignored for 3 years.

I agree with you. The plan wasn't bad, particularly because they would have lost their 2014 and 2016 draft picks if they didn't stay in the top half of the lottery (IIRC), so they almost had a good excuse to be bad for three seasons, but he drafted MCW who, despite being ROY because of course you are going to put up #s when you play a ton of minutes on a horrible team that runs at a fast pace, is not that good of a player, and trade Jrue Holiday for Noel. Noel was a pretty good pick, but DPOY candidate? No. Plus they gave up an all star PG to get him.

Joel Embiid is somewhat understandable, and some thought he could blow up and be someone great, so that can be enticing, but he did already have an injury prone center and Embiid was already injured in college...there were red flags with both of those guys and they play the same position. So, although hindsight is 20/20, trading down for more assets or picks would have been the better thing to do.

Okafor is a tough guy to pass up as well, but the thing is, you have to make decisions with these guys and do it quickly, because as you or someone here said, as soon as you make that draft pick, their value tends to decline, at least for most players.

But if you read some of the stuff written about him, he had TERRIBLE communication skills, was arrogant, not liked by many in the nba, at the top, other GMs, people in his organization, etc.

As people talk about trusting the process, in three years he didn't build any semblance of a team whatsoever. They are in no shape to compete next year either.

Despite trying to suck, their rebuild looks far worse than most rebuilding teams. They have a ton of picks this year in a bad draft, but I don't know how many will pan out.

If I was a fan I probably would have wanted to stick with him a bit longer, because I knew what his plan was, but if they were SO bad again next year it would be tough to stomach that....as a Suns fan this year has been tough to stomach, so I can't imagine 3 years, much less 4...at least we had one somewhat fun year in the middle of a five year bad stretch, so we got false hope, and it was probably for the worst, though perhaps TJ Warren ends up as good as Parker or Embiid anyway, so being bad wouldn't have been worth it, and that fun the fans had wasn't necessarily a terrible thing all things considered.

Of course next year, if I was a Philly fan and they sucked again next year, you always get into that draft hype and again would be hoping for Josh Jackson, Tatum, Giles or whoever else emerges, but I think Hinkie almost got there himself to where he may have almost been trapped in that mindset of being too excited about having a good draft pick when it is largely a crapshoot...of all people though, he should know that by now. Won't matter though, because he won't get another GM job.