The Trade Thread: All Eyes Toward The Offseason

[King4Day]

Trade idea. Don't roast me. Not saying I would do it but just something to discuss.

Knight & Len for Okafor & LAL's next pick (and contracts to fit or trade exception). That would be the base of the deal.

Caveats for Philly:

Philly has Embiid and Noel.
Is Philly willing to take on a big contract in Knight and a soon to be RFA in Len.

Caveats for Phoenix:

Would the brass prefer to pay Len 10-15 mil per year when Len becomes a free agent?
Is Okafor and a pick even enough?

What the trade would do:

Phoenix:

Okafor would replace Len (who is due for the new contract soon). Okafor is still on his rookie deal for a while. This allows Phoenix to see what they have without having to dig into their cap for a player who may or may not have maxed out already.
He can also learn from Chandler and maybe improve his D or his mentality towards playing D.

Knight's contract is off the books.
The pick would just undo what was done 2 years ago. The pick will likely become in the mid to late lottery range (or worse depending on Free Agency).

This also allows Phoenix the flexibility to go after one of the top guards in the draft if Bender is off the board or they just don't want to pick him.

Philly:

Philly gets their scoring guard who, supposedly, has a leader-type personality.
Len would give them more experience and stability at center.
Maybe a twin tower tandem with Noel and Len (as we tried with Chandler and Len).

Final Thoughts:

This one is unlikely due to Philly's lack of need at Center but they really wouldn't be giving up a ton and could always flip Len off somewhere else in the season or by expanding this deal to be a 3 way.

[sixers4real]

Would you trade 4 + 13 + Knight + Chandler (bad contract) for Okafor + 24 + 26?

[bwgood77]

If the Suns go into next season with the same starting lineup as the beginning of last season except with Horford instead of Markieff, they will still be horrible. Knight needs to be traded. If Tucker stays, he has to go to the bench. The only two people you can possibly consider in the starting lineup from that lineup is Bledsoe and Chandler. Assuming Bledsoe and Chandler are still on the roster, the lineup should be Bledsoe, Booker, new sf, new pf, and Chandler/Len. Then you can have Warren and whoever else off the bench.

As much as people will hate it, I wouldn't be totally surprised (particularly if they don't get someone like Batum or Butler and please no Barnes), if Tucker gets re-signed next offseason. It seems everyone loves him. I wouldn't mind it, though I wouldn't want him starting, at least not past mid season this year. If not SF trade or signing, start Tucker, let Warren get back to form, gauge Tucker's trade value after a month or two, and then if nothing by January 15th or so, let Warren start the last three months. If they already know they want to keep Tucker, move him to the bench sooner...I think he would still be a decent guy to have off the bench, for locker room, team chemistry, etc.

I know it won't be popular if that happens, but it just wouldn't totally surprise me.

[Worm122]

Would you trade 4 + Knight for Okafor + 24?

[bwgood77]

Was watching Inside NBA a while ago and Grant Hill said the vast majority of people in the NBA are not after the ring, they're after their paycheck.

Another guy said 20 teams know they aren't winning it, so what do you think they're all thinking about.

To me this off season is about whether Ryan McDonough chases his next paycheck or chases the ring.

If you look at all his moves so far, they have been low risk / low expectation moves with little downside to his resume.

Time to stop making fans the losers and give us some reason to believe you're chasing the ring like we are.

Well he's kind of swung for the season in FA the last two offseasons while being held ransom and missing out on all the other impact FAs. I wouldn't call that low risk....so then he settles for Thomas, when he had three PGs (four if you count Archie) and the following year Telly and Leuer. That's about all that was left.

Though I will say I find it funny that everyone makes fun of Phx for trading IT for a first round pick. Well why did no one sign him for that $8 million price tag in the summer giving up nothing (except the committed $ of course).

[sixers4real]

Would you trade 4 + Knight for Okafor + 24?

I'd think about it, but I like my trade more lol

[bwgood77]

Was watching Inside NBA a while ago and Grant Hill said the vast majority of people in the NBA are not after the ring, they're after their paycheck.

Another guy said 20 teams know they aren't winning it, so what do you think they're all thinking about.

To me this off season is about whether Ryan McDonough chases his next paycheck or chases the ring.

If you look at all his moves so far, they have been low risk / low expectation moves with little downside to his resume.

Time to stop making fans the losers and give us some reason to believe you're chasing the ring like we are.

This is what separates players from being great. Only so many players really care about winning. I know one guy who is playing college ball and I asked em if you were to get drafted in the NBA who would you not want to play for? He said he doesn't give a crap where he plays if he gets those millions. I feel like a vast majority of players have this kind of thinking.

Well most players are not good enough to really tilt a team towards a championship. Only about 10 players or less really have that ability. Maybe another 10 to a lesser extent.

[bwgood77]

Going after Horford, Batum and Barnes seem good ideas

I was also recently looking at Barnes #s. The guy averaged less than 12 pts, 5 rebounds per game this year. It's not like he was lights out from 3 either...he shot 38%. I know PER isn't a great advanced metric, but 15 is supposed to be an avg player and he had a 12.3 PER this year. He played a little under 31 minutes a game. He also started 59 games, and was probably more wide open for shots due to the attention others get...also had good passers finding him in Curry and Green. He also shot 46% from the field.

Conversely, TJ Warren played a little under 23 minutes per game. He scored 11 pts, over 3 boards a game. Over 50% from the field and 40% from 3. PER of 15.9.

TJ Warren has played a year and a half, and not much his first year, and of course injured most of his second, and Barnes has played 4, and arguably TJ is already better. The numbers point to that.

Plus, I don't think Barnes will be as good if he's not playing with Curry, Thompson and Green. Warren is only going to get better with more minutes and more refining of his game and defense.

If we go after a guy like Barnes, first of all I think it's a mistake and would likely be a massive overpay, but it's also kind of unfair to Warren, who has earned his chance and is already just about as good, if not better.

Here are their side by side #s this year.

http://bkref.com/tiny/RQwUX

[Qwigglez]

Going after Horford, Batum and Barnes seem good ideas

I was also recently looking at Barnes #s. The guy averaged less than 12 pts, 5 rebounds per game this year. It's not like he was lights out from 3 either...he shot 38%. I know PER isn't a great advanced metric, but 15 is supposed to be an avg player and he had a 12.3 PER this year. He played a little under 31 minutes a game. He also started 59 games, and was probably more wide open for shots due to the attention others get...also had good passers finding him in Curry and Green. He also shot 46% from the field.

Conversely, TJ Warren played a little under 23 minutes per game. He scored 11 pts, over 3 boards a game. Over 50% from the field and 40% from 3. PER of 15.9.

TJ Warren has played a year and a half, and not much his first year, and of course injured most of his second, and Barnes has played 4, and arguably TJ is already better. The numbers point to that.

Plus, I don't think Barnes will be as good if he's not playing with Curry, Thompson and Green. Warren is only going to get better with more minutes and more refining of his game and defense.

If we go after a guy like Barnes, first of all I think it's a mistake and would likely be a massive overpay, but it's also kind of unfair to Warren, who has earned his chance and is already just about as good, if not better.

Here are their side by side #s this year.

http://bkref.com/tiny/RQwUX

More unfair to PJ Tucker who has put in the time and dedication for the last half decade to bring quality basketball entertainment to Suns fans.

[Saberestar]

Would you trade 4 + Knight for Okafor + 24?

Yes, I probably would make this trade but we need to trade Chandler after that too.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Would you trade 4 + 13 + Knight + Chandler (bad contract) for Okafor + 24 + 26?

No I would definitely not do that trade. I've disliked the chandler deal since the minute it was signed but even I wouldn't including him as a negative asset type trade. It's not a good contract but there's no pressure to get that contract off the books this summer. The suns already have cap space and so does every team so what's the point of getting more? Only thing that will accomplish is using that money to over pay someone else because every free agent will get overpaid this summer.

In general people need to get out of the mindset that any team is going to give up an asset this summer to move a "bad" contract. It's just not the reality with the cap going up.

[AtheJ415]

Going after Horford, Batum and Barnes seem good ideas

I was also recently looking at Barnes #s. The guy averaged less than 12 pts, 5 rebounds per game this year. It's not like he was lights out from 3 either...he shot 38%. I know PER isn't a great advanced metric, but 15 is supposed to be an avg player and he had a 12.3 PER this year. He played a little under 31 minutes a game. He also started 59 games, and was probably more wide open for shots due to the attention others get...also had good passers finding him in Curry and Green. He also shot 46% from the field.

Conversely, TJ Warren played a little under 23 minutes per game. He scored 11 pts, over 3 boards a game. Over 50% from the field and 40% from 3. PER of 15.9.

TJ Warren has played a year and a half, and not much his first year, and of course injured most of his second, and Barnes has played 4, and arguably TJ is already better. The numbers point to that.

Plus, I don't think Barnes will be as good if he's not playing with Curry, Thompson and Green. Warren is only going to get better with more minutes and more refining of his game and defense.

If we go after a guy like Barnes, first of all I think it's a mistake and would likely be a massive overpay, but it's also kind of unfair to Warren, who has earned his chance and is already just about as good, if not better.

Here are their side by side #s this year.

http://bkref.com/tiny/RQwUX

More unfair to PJ Tucker who has put in the time and dedication for the last half decade to bring quality basketball entertainment to Suns fans.

Tucker sucks. How he's a fan favorite when he spends his offseasons downing nachos and inventing new types of DUIs after getting a new deal is beyond me. He's a replaceable player, whose starting spot is a true problem. We need a talent upgrade there. Warren is better, but inexplicably doesn't start (thanks Jeff).

[jcsunsfan]

Was watching Inside NBA a while ago and Grant Hill said the vast majority of people in the NBA are not after the ring, they're after their paycheck.

Another guy said 20 teams know they aren't winning it, so what do you think they're all thinking about.

To me this off season is about whether Ryan McDonough chases his next paycheck or chases the ring.

If you look at all his moves so far, they have been low risk / low expectation moves with little downside to his resume.

Time to stop making fans the losers and give us some reason to believe you're chasing the ring like we are.

IOW, you want him to go out and do something stupid and get fired? A good GM consistently makes good solid decisions. Look at San Antonio.

[rsavaj]

the GM that maxes out Barnes will regret it

[Frank Lee]

Id swap 4 for Noel in an instant. Bout time we get more than a guard from Ky

And pass on Butler... isn't he naturally a SG ?

Value wise it's fair but we'd have both Len & Noel hitting RFA the same summer. Even with the new cap that could be a $30M combined for an underwhelming frontcourt.

Nobody says you have to keep both.

I'd love Noel here, with chandler as his yoda. Len, imo, is easily traded/replaced unless he improves to be the player the hopefuls around here want.

And his anti-age thing… F that. Horford is 30. You ink him for 4-5 yrs. we have the best training staff in the league… they'll keep his motor running. He's solid on both ends and if This so-called core (which really doesn't exist) isn't competing/contending in three years it won't be Horford's fault or any other vet we acquire.

I'd rather pay Horford than Telly or Barnes for that matter

[bwgood77]

I'm starting to wonder if we really do have the best training staff in the league. It certainly hasn't looked that way the last year and a half.

[jcsunsfan]

Gambo said on the radio yesterday that the Suns are willing to move the #4 pick but only for a "young star player." They are not willing to take a player and move back a few spots.

[rsavaj]

Gambo said on the radio yesterday that the Suns are willing to move the #4 pick but only for a "young star player." They are not willing to take a player and move back a few spots.

Okafor is the closest thing available fitting that description. George and Cousins aren't going anywhere. Butler maybe but it would take an overpay.

Few ideas from the trade board:

--4/13 for Okafor (and the Philly mod said he wouldn't mind including 24 and/or 26). If you could land Okafor + 24 and 26, I think that's a great deal.

--4/Knight for Okafor straight up.

[jcsunsfan]

Gambo said on the radio yesterday that the Suns are willing to move the #4 pick but only for a "young star player." They are not willing to take a player and move back a few spots.

Okafor is the closest thing available fitting that description. George and Cousins aren't going anywhere. Butler maybe but it would take an overpay.

Few ideas from the trade board:

--4/13 for Okafor (and the Philly mod said he wouldn't mind including 24 and/or 26). If you could land Okafor + 24 and 26, I think that's a great deal.

--4/Knight for Okafor straight up.

I think #4 and Knight for Okafor is too much. That is not because I value Knight so highly. I am not that high on Okafor. I would do Knight and #13 for Okafor. Okafor still has bust potential. His rim protection and D are horrible for a center in today's nba.

[jcsunsfan]

I'd definitely do that. I rate Okafor higher than Bender

Okafor better than Bender? Only because Bender hasn't played an NBA game yet.

Okafor would go #1 in this draft quite easily. Bender's ceiling is #3 in a weak draft.

If he was a rookie, with the same hype he had as a rookie, he could go #1. If he re-entered the draft right now, with everything that is known about him right now, I don't think so. His D is horrible, same with his character and off-the-court issues.

To me, he is Armen Gilliam. Stat padder in meaningless play with no D.