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[spanishninja]

Jesus Christ man, does it seem like the other top big men in the playoffs are trying to duck Ayton? Gobert gone and now biid gone. There's still Gianni's I guess

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[lilfishi22]

He's elite on one side of the floor and because of his inability to shoot (from range or from FT line), he's just become so exploitable. Even if he doesn't become a good shooter, as long as he gets to the point where he's not exploitable on that side of the floor then he's certainly playing up to his contract.

I don't know if it's reworking his shot, shooting right handed or seeing a sports psychologist, or a combination of the three but he's doing himself a massive disservice by doing none of those things.

[AtheJ415]

It's all mental

It's physical too. He can't shoot in an empty gym either. He's terrible in warmups. His elbow flies out when shooting because he's shooting with the wrong hand. He needs to own that this part of his game sucks and just start over. Start over righty (his actual dominant hand) or rebuild lefty with proper form.

[AtheJ415]

If they lose this game, he's gone this summer. I still see a McCollum for Simmons type deal taking place.

Yep, could be good for both teams. I think he has placed himself firmly in the value range of mcollum not Lillard (not that he was ever worth lillard

Honestly I think with the way he's played lately, he isn't worth McC in a trade... so what else do the Sixers have to add?

I think OKC for Kemba may work

[wheezy]

And Philly has been eliminated. You can say it's in part due to Embiid's injury but he played the whole series and dominated.
They will finally have to break that core up.

Doc just straight up got out-coached. Straight up

Nothing he can do either when his second 'star' can't shoot.
If they don't plan on moving him, I'm telling him to go on vacation and then rebuild his shot. Though I believe his issue is mental more than anything. He was down and I think his days in Philly are finished.

It isn't even that he can't shoot though, the guy literally refuses to try in a game. His defense is only so valuable when he's so in his own head that he's passing up dunks. I mean Trae shot 5-23 and no one is batting an eye.

[wheezy]

Nothing he can do either when his second 'star' can't shoot.
If they don't plan on moving him, I'm telling him to go on vacation and then rebuild his shot. Though I believe his issue is mental more than anything. He was down and I think his days in Philly are finished.

Portland and Philly make interesting trade partners, IMO. CJ for Simmons makes some sense. Portland need to get better defensively, and Philly needs better shot-making.

It makes sense on paper but in practice Simmons would tank their offense to maybe middle of the pack (on the backs of Dame alone) and their defense might at best be a 10 spot improvement.

Really the best trade should've been Simmons to Rockets and they can actually build around him from scratch

There was supposedly a trade involving Simmons for Harden. Shocking now that that didn't happen (6ers wouldn't include enough more apparently).

[lilfishi22]

Portland and Philly make interesting trade partners, IMO. CJ for Simmons makes some sense. Portland need to get better defensively, and Philly needs better shot-making.

It makes sense on paper but in practice Simmons would tank their offense to maybe middle of the pack (on the backs of Dame alone) and their defense might at best be a 10 spot improvement.

Really the best trade should've been Simmons to Rockets and they can actually build around him from scratch

There was supposedly a trade involving Simmons for Harden. Shocking now that that didn't happen (6ers wouldn't include enough more apparently).

Yeah there was. Tyrese Maxey was the dealbreaker for the Sixers lol

[wheezy]

I just replied to a tweet with this trade. Great minds think alike

Sixers need to do something

This will sound hot takey but it isn't. Simmons is criminally overrated. He has a reputation as this elite playmaker who can pass incredibly well but he's not. He mostly just initiates offense by dribbling up the court, passing to the side, and rotating to the dunk spot. He doesn't run pick & roll, doesn't get others open, doesn't really do much of anything on offense creatively except in transition, where you have numbers and most would make the easy / correct read. His contract is insane for a Draymond type player, who only works with the greatest shooting backcourt of all time and even then I wouldn't call Draymond a net positive player anymore. Steph would've averaged 40 if Draymond didn't allow the easy double every play.

I honestly wouldn't trade Cam Johnson for Simmons if the salaries were equal. He's not a 3 and D player. He's a defensive role player who is petrified of shooting and is only a good playmaker compared to his position / height. So is Dario, and Dario ain't all that. If Simmons would at least drive to the hoop and use his height / athleticism to make layups or dunks he'd be okay, but still nowhere near close to the all star he's considered, which is just from reputation, draft pick status, and people overvaluing the little things. Playmaking and offensive efficiency is still by FAR the most valuable skillset in the league, and he does none of that at close to even an above average level, to put it kindly.

I struggle to see how Simmons will ever be better than the 4th best player on a title team. I like Dame a lot and really hope they don't move CJ for him because CJ is worth his contract at the least. I think Simmons ends up on a rebuild job like Houston or OKC, who knows they have time to wait out the contract and see if he develops. Dude is right handed so maybe rebuild his entire shot shooting righty instead of lefty.

Also if it isn't clear from that above, if Draymond were ever to become available imo Phx should run the other way. We're good now because we have no weak shooters and 1 weak defender who barely plays.

I just don't understand why Simmons doesn't spend every possible minute in the offseason working on his jumpshot. I mean damn, they also had Fultz who's shot looked awful and he mostly fixed it.

TJ Warren added his 3 with work. So have pretty much half the centers. Frye never took 3s in AZ or his first few years in the NBA. Brook Lopez didn't take them forever, or Marc Gasol.

He's an idiot not to work on it a lot. Maybe he's just content with that contract, but as hard as he works on defense, you'd think he is a hard worker.

Giannis is somewhat in the same boat, but he is more of an athletic freak with some minor tools in the half court. Bucks are moreso built to cover for him though.

[lilfishi22]

This will sound hot takey but it isn't. Simmons is criminally overrated. He has a reputation as this elite playmaker who can pass incredibly well but he's not. He mostly just initiates offense by dribbling up the court, passing to the side, and rotating to the dunk spot. He doesn't run pick & roll, doesn't get others open, doesn't really do much of anything on offense creatively except in transition, where you have numbers and most would make the easy / correct read. His contract is insane for a Draymond type player, who only works with the greatest shooting backcourt of all time and even then I wouldn't call Draymond a net positive player anymore. Steph would've averaged 40 if Draymond didn't allow the easy double every play.

I honestly wouldn't trade Cam Johnson for Simmons if the salaries were equal. He's not a 3 and D player. He's a defensive role player who is petrified of shooting and is only a good playmaker compared to his position / height. So is Dario, and Dario ain't all that. If Simmons would at least drive to the hoop and use his height / athleticism to make layups or dunks he'd be okay, but still nowhere near close to the all star he's considered, which is just from reputation, draft pick status, and people overvaluing the little things. Playmaking and offensive efficiency is still by FAR the most valuable skillset in the league, and he does none of that at close to even an above average level, to put it kindly.

I struggle to see how Simmons will ever be better than the 4th best player on a title team. I like Dame a lot and really hope they don't move CJ for him because CJ is worth his contract at the least. I think Simmons ends up on a rebuild job like Houston or OKC, who knows they have time to wait out the contract and see if he develops. Dude is right handed so maybe rebuild his entire shot shooting righty instead of lefty.

Also if it isn't clear from that above, if Draymond were ever to become available imo Phx should run the other way. We're good now because we have no weak shooters and 1 weak defender who barely plays.

I just don't understand why Simmons doesn't spend every possible minute in the offseason working on his jumpshot. I mean damn, they also had Fultz who's shot looked awful and he mostly fixed it.

TJ Warren added his 3 with work. So have pretty much half the centers. Frye never took 3s in AZ or his first few years in the NBA. Brook Lopez didn't take them forever, or Marc Gasol.

He's an idiot not to work on it a lot. Maybe he's just content with that contract, but as hard as he works on defense, you'd think he is a hard worker.

Giannis is somewhat in the same boat, but he is more of an athletic freak with some minor tools in the half court. Bucks are moreso built to cover for him though.

More than just that, Giannis isn't afraid to shoot, sometimes to the team's detriment but at least he's a threat. He might not be a good shooter but he doesn't shy away from getting to the line or having a go at shooting the 3. Simmons not shooting just makes it even worse for everyone else because you can sag off him and he still won't make you pay...even at a 30% clip which is what Giannis is shooting from 3.

[bwgood77]

Jesus Christ man, does it seem like the other top big men in the playoffs are trying to duck Ayton? Gobert gone and now biid gone. There's still Gianni's I guess

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He may have to guard Lopez which will really draw him out. I'd like him to guard Giannis but who could possibly guard Lopez? I certainly don't want to play two bigs.

[spanishninja]

Jesus Christ man, does it seem like the other top big men in the playoffs are trying to duck Ayton? Gobert gone and now biid gone. There's still Gianni's I guess

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

He may have to guard Lopez which will really draw him out. I'd like him to guard Giannis but who could possibly guard Lopez? I certainly don't want to play two bigs.

yeah true true. And it seems like the Bucks are really good at making their opponents play the way they want to.

[bwgood77]

This will sound hot takey but it isn't. Simmons is criminally overrated. He has a reputation as this elite playmaker who can pass incredibly well but he's not. He mostly just initiates offense by dribbling up the court, passing to the side, and rotating to the dunk spot. He doesn't run pick & roll, doesn't get others open, doesn't really do much of anything on offense creatively except in transition, where you have numbers and most would make the easy / correct read. His contract is insane for a Draymond type player, who only works with the greatest shooting backcourt of all time and even then I wouldn't call Draymond a net positive player anymore. Steph would've averaged 40 if Draymond didn't allow the easy double every play.

I honestly wouldn't trade Cam Johnson for Simmons if the salaries were equal. He's not a 3 and D player. He's a defensive role player who is petrified of shooting and is only a good playmaker compared to his position / height. So is Dario, and Dario ain't all that. If Simmons would at least drive to the hoop and use his height / athleticism to make layups or dunks he'd be okay, but still nowhere near close to the all star he's considered, which is just from reputation, draft pick status, and people overvaluing the little things. Playmaking and offensive efficiency is still by FAR the most valuable skillset in the league, and he does none of that at close to even an above average level, to put it kindly.

I struggle to see how Simmons will ever be better than the 4th best player on a title team. I like Dame a lot and really hope they don't move CJ for him because CJ is worth his contract at the least. I think Simmons ends up on a rebuild job like Houston or OKC, who knows they have time to wait out the contract and see if he develops. Dude is right handed so maybe rebuild his entire shot shooting righty instead of lefty.

Also if it isn't clear from that above, if Draymond were ever to become available imo Phx should run the other way. We're good now because we have no weak shooters and 1 weak defender who barely plays.

I just don't understand why Simmons doesn't spend every possible minute in the offseason working on his jumpshot. I mean damn, they also had Fultz who's shot looked awful and he mostly fixed it.

TJ Warren added his 3 with work. So have pretty much half the centers. Frye never took 3s in AZ or his first few years in the NBA. Brook Lopez didn't take them forever, or Marc Gasol.

He's an idiot not to work on it a lot. Maybe he's just content with that contract, but as hard as he works on defense, you'd think he is a hard worker.

Giannis is somewhat in the same boat, but he is more of an athletic freak with some minor tools in the half court. Bucks are moreso built to cover for him though.

Not really. At least he shoots and I'm guessing he practices 3s...he at least is over 30% from there 3 out of the last 4 years. He is more like LeBron..they both are bad FT shooters..their career %s are about the same.

LeBron started out his career mostly only going to the rim...and was really bad from everywhere else....for example look at his shot chart and shooting splits by distance...Giannis is better at the rim but also way better from mid range and pretty close to the same from short range. LeBron slightly better from mid-long range and 3 but not much.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/shooting/2008



https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01/shooting/2021

[Bogyo]

Simmons is signed through 2025, and will be making 40 mill that year. :O

[lilfishi22]

Simmons is signed through 2025, and will be making 40 mill that year. :O

Makes Wiggins' max contract look small in comparison.

[wheezy]

I just don't understand why Simmons doesn't spend every possible minute in the offseason working on his jumpshot. I mean damn, they also had Fultz who's shot looked awful and he mostly fixed it.

TJ Warren added his 3 with work. So have pretty much half the centers. Frye never took 3s in AZ or his first few years in the NBA. Brook Lopez didn't take them forever, or Marc Gasol.

He's an idiot not to work on it a lot. Maybe he's just content with that contract, but as hard as he works on defense, you'd think he is a hard worker.

Giannis is somewhat in the same boat, but he is more of an athletic freak with some minor tools in the half court. Bucks are moreso built to cover for him though.

Not really. At least he shoots and I'm guessing he practices 3s...he at least is over 30% from there 3 out of the last 4 years. He is more like LeBron..they both are bad FT shooters..their career %s are about the same.

LeBron started out his career mostly only going to the rim...and was really bad from everywhere else....for example look at his shot chart and shooting splits by distance...Giannis is better at the rim but also way better from mid range and pretty close to the same from short range. LeBron slightly better from mid-long range and 3 but not much.

Spoiler:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/shooting/2008



https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01/shooting/2021

I don't really disagree with you, but that's Giannis in his 8th season vs Lebron in his 5th season. Lebron was able to take another leap when he developed a shot. I just think Giannis is capable of being the best player in the NBA if he works on that part of his game more. Is he a Simmons level liability? No, obviously not. But right now every time he takes a 3 early in the shot clock he should be fined 5k.

Someone else mentioned this, but having 3 level scorers is really the big advantage this playoffs. Book and CP3 are capitalizing on shots that defenses are used to preferring people shoot from, allowing them to get to their spots and getting them in rhythm. Thought this was an interesting read from tonight where they mention that: https://theathletic.com/2663374/2021/06/20/how-devin-booker-dissected-the-clippers-defense-in-suns-game-1-win/

[garrick]

Simmons can hit threes in pick up games but refuses to take them in games maybe because he doesn't want to look stupid but how can he be expected to hit any threes in the post season by completely avoiding taking them in the regular season???

[ATTL]

I dont think we'll ever see simmons above booker on a top player list again.

[sunsbg]

Jesus Christ man, does it seem like the other top big men in the playoffs are trying to duck Ayton? Gobert gone and now biid gone. There's still Gianni's I guess

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He may have to guard Lopez which will really draw him out. I'd like him to guard Giannis but who could possibly guard Lopez? I certainly don't want to play two bigs.

yeah true true. And it seems like the Bucks are really good at making their opponents play the way they want to.

Lopez is primarily launching 3s nowadays. I don't see an issue putting Crowder/Craig on him.

Playing the Bucks will be so different than playing the Clippers. Just need to take lessons from Nets first two games on how to slow down Giannis and the whole team from scoring inside, though Suns were already letting him wide open outside in the RS meetings.

[bwgood77]

Giannis is somewhat in the same boat, but he is more of an athletic freak with some minor tools in the half court. Bucks are moreso built to cover for him though.

Not really. At least he shoots and I'm guessing he practices 3s...he at least is over 30% from there 3 out of the last 4 years. He is more like LeBron..they both are bad FT shooters..their career %s are about the same.

LeBron started out his career mostly only going to the rim...and was really bad from everywhere else....for example look at his shot chart and shooting splits by distance...Giannis is better at the rim but also way better from mid range and pretty close to the same from short range. LeBron slightly better from mid-long range and 3 but not much.

Spoiler:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/shooting/2008



https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01/shooting/2021

I don't really disagree with you, but that's Giannis in his 8th season vs Lebron in his 5th season. Lebron was able to take another leap when he developed a shot. I just think Giannis is capable of being the best player in the NBA if he works on that part of his game more. Is he a Simmons level liability? No, obviously not. But right now every time he takes a 3 early in the shot clock he should be fined 5k.

Someone else mentioned this, but having 3 level scorers is really the big advantage this playoffs. Book and CP3 are capitalizing on shots that defenses are used to preferring people shoot from, allowing them to get to their spots and getting them in rhythm. Thought this was an interesting read from tonight where they mention that: https://theathletic.com/2663374/2021/06/20/how-devin-booker-dissected-the-clippers-defense-in-suns-game-1-win/

Oh yeah, I think he needs to work on his shooting too, but I'm guessing he is. I think LeBron really worked on his as well. I just picked one year for LeBron and didn't look at others but he's never been a good FT shooter. He's gotten better from 3 though.

[AtheJ415]

This will sound hot takey but it isn't. Simmons is criminally overrated. He has a reputation as this elite playmaker who can pass incredibly well but he's not. He mostly just initiates offense by dribbling up the court, passing to the side, and rotating to the dunk spot. He doesn't run pick & roll, doesn't get others open, doesn't really do much of anything on offense creatively except in transition, where you have numbers and most would make the easy / correct read. His contract is insane for a Draymond type player, who only works with the greatest shooting backcourt of all time and even then I wouldn't call Draymond a net positive player anymore. Steph would've averaged 40 if Draymond didn't allow the easy double every play.

I honestly wouldn't trade Cam Johnson for Simmons if the salaries were equal. He's not a 3 and D player. He's a defensive role player who is petrified of shooting and is only a good playmaker compared to his position / height. So is Dario, and Dario ain't all that. If Simmons would at least drive to the hoop and use his height / athleticism to make layups or dunks he'd be okay, but still nowhere near close to the all star he's considered, which is just from reputation, draft pick status, and people overvaluing the little things. Playmaking and offensive efficiency is still by FAR the most valuable skillset in the league, and he does none of that at close to even an above average level, to put it kindly.

I struggle to see how Simmons will ever be better than the 4th best player on a title team. I like Dame a lot and really hope they don't move CJ for him because CJ is worth his contract at the least. I think Simmons ends up on a rebuild job like Houston or OKC, who knows they have time to wait out the contract and see if he develops. Dude is right handed so maybe rebuild his entire shot shooting righty instead of lefty.

Also if it isn't clear from that above, if Draymond were ever to become available imo Phx should run the other way. We're good now because we have no weak shooters and 1 weak defender who barely plays.

I just don't understand why Simmons doesn't spend every possible minute in the offseason working on his jumpshot. I mean damn, they also had Fultz who's shot looked awful and he mostly fixed it.

TJ Warren added his 3 with work. So have pretty much half the centers. Frye never took 3s in AZ or his first few years in the NBA. Brook Lopez didn't take them forever, or Marc Gasol.

He's an idiot not to work on it a lot. Maybe he's just content with that contract, but as hard as he works on defense, you'd think he is a hard worker.

Giannis is somewhat in the same boat, but he is more of an athletic freak with some minor tools in the half court. Bucks are moreso built to cover for him though.

Giannis relentlessly attacks the hoop and is elite finishing at it. He's nowhere close to the same as Simmons, who passes out of dunks and largely is scared to shoot. Hack a Giannis is also not an obvious option anymore, whereas it's very easy decision for Simmons.