2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion

[garrick]

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Dang so it sounds like we might not even have plans for Grayson Allen at this point and were 100% sold on Nurkic and Little for Ayton.

Wow, now if we trade Allen for TJ McConnell I will not be surprised at all.

I can’t believe we essentially lucked into Allen. lol we legit did no negotiating during this trade. We just said “gimme dat” and the Blazers were lucky AF someone was willing to take Nurkic of their hands.

Whether he’s a good fit or not, to me this story makes the whole situation sound a lot worse on the end of the Suns. Also makes us a little less guilty of helping a contender get better since we were unaware of who the third team was.

I wonder if the suns go through with this knowing Dame goes to the Bucks and there’s a possibility of Jrue going to a west contender. I say, honestly, probably not.

Also why be involved in a trade where there’s a required 8 million that needs to come back to you but you’re not allowed to know who the player is or ask for anyone specific or even a specific size/position. That’s awful.

Edit: maybe I am missing something:

Read on Twitter

“Grayson Allen’s inclusion as the final piece made Phoenix a “resounding yes” to make the trade.”

I guess I don’t know what the whole article said. Anyway, oh well haha

So it seems like JJ is kind of out as GM? I mean he is still GM but it looks like all the decisions are being done by Ishbia and Matt Bartelstein?

I wonder if Mat figures instead of firing JJ and losing him for nothing he would rather keep him around but that he is no longer the one pulling the trigger on personnel moves or free agent signings?

[garrick]

Exactly.

Nurkic knows how to play ball.

With him we can play a 5-out offense and he will be a connector for us similar to Saric when he played at 5 for our bench unit.

oh nice call, we basically just got a bigger Saric. Putting those dots together the trade makes even more sense.

Poor man's Jokic too. A true Euro big.

More like a homeless man's version of Jokic.

The only similarities between the two are they are both European, shoot the 3 at a decent rate for centers and both are unathletic.

It's not like Nurkic is a volume lights out 3pt shooter nor an above average passer or facilitator although he is a bit better than Ayton but then he's only available for half the regular season anyway. I think if you're hoping Nurkic can be that missing piece are going to be sorely disappointed.

[Jdiddy701]

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Dang so it sounds like we might not even have plans for Grayson Allen at this point and were 100% sold on Nurkic and Little for Ayton.

Wow, now if we trade Allen for TJ McConnell I will not be surprised at all.

I can’t believe we essentially lucked into Allen. lol we legit did no negotiating during this trade. We just said “gimme dat” and the Blazers were lucky AF someone was willing to take Nurkic of their hands.

Whether he’s a good fit or not, to me this story makes the whole situation sound a lot worse on the end of the Suns. Also makes us a little less guilty of helping a contender get better since we were unaware of who the third team was.

I wonder if the suns go through with this knowing Dame goes to the Bucks and there’s a possibility of Jrue going to a west contender. I say, honestly, probably not.

Also why be involved in a trade where there’s a required 8 million that needs to come back to you but you’re not allowed to know who the player is or ask for anyone specific or even a specific size/position. That’s awful.

Edit: maybe I am missing something:

Read on Twitter

“Grayson Allen’s inclusion as the final piece made Phoenix a “resounding yes” to make the trade.”

I guess I don’t know what the whole article said. Anyway, oh well haha

So it seems like JJ is kind of out as GM? I mean he is still GM but it looks like all the decisions are being done by Ishbia and Matt Bartelstein?

I wonder if Mat figures instead of firing JJ and losing him for nothing he would rather keep him around but that he is no longer the one pulling the trigger on personnel moves or free agent signings?

I don’t know why we actually care about who actually does the negotiations. Doing things as a team makes your front office a lot stronger imo. We’ve heard all three, Josh, Ishbia and JJ in past trades/signings. I like it a lot.


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[Jdiddy701]

I like the fact that Nurk us more of a basketball player, good passing, moving and flow of the game, b ball iq. Also that at no point when he received a pass in the lane, did he BACK UP to the free-throw line, stop, pump fake, clog up the midrange and stop the ball!! He flowed toward the rim and put the ball up, got fouled or made a smart pass because people kept moving. Whenever ayton caught it, it became a jab step midrange jump shot, We already have midrange jump shooters, go do big man ****!!!

Exactly.

Nurkic knows how to play ball.

With him we can play a 5-out offense and he will be a connector for us similar to Saric when he played at 5 for our bench unit.

oh nice call, we basically just got a bigger Saric. Putting those dots together the trade makes even more sense.

I would have gone absolutely nuts if DA consistently banged in the post like Nurk does in these highlights. That’s going to be refreshing. No more settle for a fadeaway against a smaller defender. I still say Nurk and DA have the same weakness. I feel a lot better now that Nurk makes almost half what DA gets paid.

Hopefully he stays healthy. Can’t wait to see what Vogel can do with Nurk.


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[Slim Charless]

Look i know everyone is happy Ayton is gone which is cool, but the same things Suns fans have said about Ayton Portland fans were saying about Nurkic...lazy, doesnt dunk, cant finish at the rim, out of shape, doesnt care... cant just make things up to fit a narrative, they are both likely happier in their new spots for now, what also is likely is they are the same players they were at the last places

People calling Nurk Joker lite is funny, maybe Joker anorexic they arent on the same planet as far as talent goes, but do have some similar attributes.

Fact is we don't need much out of the center position as long as Nurk can accept his role, which for the record he was unwilling to do in Portland he whined and pouted when he didnt get his touches and was out of shape all year. Hopefully he accepts his role here on a winning team time will tell but either way if he doesnt no one will care we can sit him on the bench, trade him, or whatever he will have very little to do with this teams championship goals. Its on Book, KD, and to a lesser extent Beal.

Didn't see where you said they called Nurk a whiney bitch or is delusional about his shortcomings, taking no responsibility for anything. NURK-NATING across his chest just below all his jewelry while swearing he is KILLING IT!!! Nurk knows who he is as a player so fitting in to his teammates becomes less of a problem. Ayton sees himself as a top tier team carrying super star, and that was a problem.

They absolutely did but let your hate for Ayton go he cant hurt you anymore, he isnt on the team, it will be ok I know he hurt many but he is gone now. Its going to be ok.

Like most of the haters, he's dumb and will be proven wrong on this.

Nurk sucks, can't stay healthy and is old. He's at best the 25th best center in the league. Ayton is still top 10.

You can tell who never has watched Nurk play, Fo Real being an example. It's okay, they will all understand soon enough.

[Slim Charless]

oh nice call, we basically just got a bigger Saric. Putting those dots together the trade makes even more sense.

Poor man's Jokic too. A true Euro big.

I've thought the same, Jokic lite.

Lmao.

[garrick]

Didn't see where you said they called Nurk a whiney bitch or is delusional about his shortcomings, taking no responsibility for anything. NURK-NATING across his chest just below all his jewelry while swearing he is KILLING IT!!! Nurk knows who he is as a player so fitting in to his teammates becomes less of a problem. Ayton sees himself as a top tier team carrying super star, and that was a problem.

They absolutely did but let your hate for Ayton go he cant hurt you anymore, he isnt on the team, it will be ok I know he hurt many but he is gone now. Its going to be ok.

Like most of the haters, he's dumb and will be proven wrong on this.

Nurk sucks, can't stay healthy and is old. He's at best the 25th best center in the league. Ayton is still top 10.

You can tell who never has watched Nurk play, Fo Real being an example. It's okay, they will all understand soon enough.

Watch on YouTube

Bill Simmons ranks Nurkic as his #29th ranked center.

[BobbieL]

They absolutely did but let your hate for Ayton go he cant hurt you anymore, he isnt on the team, it will be ok I know he hurt many but he is gone now. Its going to be ok.

Like most of the haters, he's dumb and will be proven wrong on this.

Nurk sucks, can't stay healthy and is old. He's at best the 25th best center in the league. Ayton is still top 10.

You can tell who never has watched Nurk play, Fo Real being an example. It's okay, they will all understand soon enough.

Watch on YouTube

Bill Simmons ranks Nurkic as his #29th ranked center.

Probably not the worst thing Simmons has him ranked so low
Simmons used to be funny p-- he had his schtick. 3 hour ESPN chat wraps that combined sports takes with talking about the Real World

It was funny

I wouldn't say he is an expert on basketball - he is a fan.

I will go with Nurk is closer to Saric than a Jokic lite. But understand why the trade needed to be made

[Slim Charless]

Like most of the haters, he's dumb and will be proven wrong on this.

Nurk sucks, can't stay healthy and is old. He's at best the 25th best center in the league. Ayton is still top 10.

You can tell who never has watched Nurk play, Fo Real being an example. It's okay, they will all understand soon enough.

Watch on YouTube

Bill Simmons ranks Nurkic as his #29th ranked center.

Probably not the worst thing Simmons has him ranked so low
Simmons used to be funny p-- he had his schtick. 3 hour ESPN chat wraps that combined sports takes with talking about the Real World

It was funny

I wouldn't say he is an expert on basketball - he is a fan.

I will go with Nurk is closer to Saric than a Jokic lite. But understand why the trade needed to be made

It was a bad trade. That's the best way to put it

[Bogyo]

Like most of the haters, he's dumb and will be proven wrong on this.

Nurk sucks, can't stay healthy and is old. He's at best the 25th best center in the league. Ayton is still top 10.

You can tell who never has watched Nurk play, Fo Real being an example. It's okay, they will all understand soon enough.

Watch on YouTube

Bill Simmons ranks Nurkic as his #29th ranked center.

Probably not the worst thing Simmons has him ranked so low
Simmons used to be funny p-- he had his schtick. 3 hour ESPN chat wraps that combined sports takes with talking about the Real World

It was funny

I wouldn't say he is an expert on basketball - he is a fan.

I will go with Nurk is closer to Saric than a Jokic lite. But understand why the trade needed to be made

I was just talking about this pod in the Grayson Allen thread. I used to like Simmons a lot - back in the day he was an expert, but I'd say that was before his ESPN days. Then he had the time (and patience?) to do it. Now I guess he has to handle a business and family, and his other intrests kinda put bball on a lower shelf. Understandable.
As for the trade, I think he is a bit too pessimistic. I say I understand why the trade had to be made, and that it wasn't the best trade in Suns history by far, but probably not the worst either. If Allen is good off the bench (pretty sure), Nurk holds up 60+ games on a non-tanking team, and is healthy in the playoffs (doable with a bit of luck), and we get something for Little (packaged with somebody plus a couple of seconds), then it's an OK trade in my book by all means.
But ultimately this will be judged wether we win a chip in 1-2 years. The chances of that haven't moved either direction significantly I'd say, so we kinda traded one set of problems for another. Our set of problems with DA were clearly unsolvable in PHX by now - let's see if the problems of Nurk at the 5 can be solved with Vogel and being a contender with much better cast.

[matt131]

They absolutely did but let your hate for Ayton go he cant hurt you anymore, he isnt on the team, it will be ok I know he hurt many but he is gone now. Its going to be ok.

Like most of the haters, he's dumb and will be proven wrong on this.

Nurk sucks, can't stay healthy and is old. He's at best the 25th best center in the league. Ayton is still top 10.

You can tell who never has watched Nurk play, Fo Real being an example. It's okay, they will all understand soon enough.

Watch on YouTube

Bill Simmons ranks Nurkic as his #29th ranked center.

Simmons is entertaining, but he is so contradictory about this trade.

Says that the suns are in contention for a title this year immediately, but confused why we didn’t wait around to see how Ayton fit with Vogel. If he can’t see why those two things don’t work together, then he’s just stirring the pot.

Who were his top two centers? Robert Williams and Al Horford with Jokic a clear tier behind them? Is he actually more comfortable with the Celtics chances to win the East now because Dame isn’t that good and was just an empty stats guy on a losing team? How does this affect the patriots chances at a Super Bowl? Pretty sure it increases that as well.

[Jdiddy701]

Bill Simmons opinion to anything is something I’ve never cared about. Something about him that I’ve never liked. I hate how people really listen to him and enjoy his platform.


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[NavLDO]

Watch on YouTube

Bill Simmons ranks Nurkic as his #29th ranked center.

Probably not the worst thing Simmons has him ranked so low
Simmons used to be funny p-- he had his schtick. 3 hour ESPN chat wraps that combined sports takes with talking about the Real World

It was funny

I wouldn't say he is an expert on basketball - he is a fan.

I will go with Nurk is closer to Saric than a Jokic lite. But understand why the trade needed to be made

It was a bad trade. That's the best way to put it

Yeah, Portland got fleeced, lol...

I love how Simmons intimated how well Ayton plays in the playoffs...and tries to use not fairing well against Jokic excuse...apparently, he didn't bother to go look how Ayton pretty much exploited Jokic in '21, yet 2 years later, played like complete a$$...

And somehow Grayson Allen can't play in the playoffs, yet shot 14 for 29 (48.3%) from 3 against Miami, and is 41 for 98 (41.8%) from 3, the last 3 seasons. Say what you want about other aspects of his game, but what Allen most brings to a team, is a sharp-shooting 3pt specialist, and he performed as expected. Ayton??? Not so much. It's clear how much he's regressed since the '21 playoffs. Nurkic held his own against Jokic in '21...the last time he was in the playoffs rebounding 62 vs Jokic's 63. Granted he fouled out a couple of games, but he had a positive +/-, overall, whereas Jokic had a -32 +/- in one of those games. Vs. Jokic/Denver in '23?? Well, here were Ayton's +/- ... -21, 0, -4, -13, -21...It's fairly clear that we can reasonably expect Nurkic to hold his own in the playoffs against Jokic...whereas Ayton won't have to worry about it, as they aren't going to sniff the playoffs in '24...

[starbosa10]

Blazers ended up with Ayton, 4 1sts, Robert Williams, Brogdan, and Camara for Dame. Way better than that BS Miami was offering.

Still don't like that we facilitated Dame to Bucks/Jrue to Boston

[Bogyo]

Blazers ended up with Ayton, 4 1sts, Robert Williams, Brogdan, and Camara for Dame. Way better than that BS Miami was offering.

Still don't like that we facilitated Dame to Bucks/Jrue to Boston

So Boston is betting on KP and Horford being healthy and good (especially in the playoffs). We'll see - but they are pretty much a donut in the middle even if one of those bigs (is KP a big?) is unhealthy or just sucks a bit (Horfords age has to be a factor, c'mon).

[BobbieL]

Blazers ended up with Ayton, 4 1sts, Robert Williams, Brogdan, and Camara for Dame. Way better than that BS Miami was offering.

Still don't like that we facilitated Dame to Bucks/Jrue to Boston

I think the wanting to get rid of Ayton was a lot of this

Blazers did a good job -- quite the haul for Dame Lillard

As for helping the Bucks and Celtics - who cares - only one can go to the final. Better that Jrue went East . Now if Jrue had gone west, that would have been bad.

[spanishninja]

Blazers ended up with Ayton, 4 1sts, Robert Williams, Brogdan, and Camara for Dame. Way better than that BS Miami was offering.

Still don't like that we facilitated Dame to Bucks/Jrue to Boston

I think the wanting to get rid of Ayton was a lot of this

Blazers did a good job -- quite the haul for Dame Lillard

As for helping the Bucks and Celtics - who cares - only one can go to the final. Better that Jrue went East . Now if Jrue had gone west, that would have been bad.

yeah. keeping Jrue away from Warriors, Lakers makes it at least not more difficult to get to the finals than it is. maybe Boston and Milwaukee kill each other in 7 games so bad they will be worn out by the last round.

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[spanishninja]

Blazers ended up with Ayton, 4 1sts, Robert Williams, Brogdan, and Camara for Dame. Way better than that BS Miami was offering.

Still don't like that we facilitated Dame to Bucks/Jrue to Boston

So Boston is betting on KP and Horford being healthy and good (especially in the playoffs). We'll see - but they are pretty much a donut in the middle even if one of those bigs (is KP a big?) is unhealthy or just sucks a bit (Horfords age has to be a factor, c'mon).

yes. and they lost quite a bit of depth.

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[Qwigglez]

So Boston is betting on KP and Horford being healthy and good (especially in the playoffs). We'll see - but they are pretty much a donut in the middle even if one of those bigs (is KP a big?) is unhealthy or just sucks a bit (Horfords age has to be a factor, c'mon).

Similar to the Suns. The best "what if" team ever assembled.

Having Eubanks is going to be key in the playoffs.

[Jsbath]

Read on Twitter

?s=20


Jrue to Boston

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