2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation

[sunskerr]

I feel like Houston may want KD more than Booker as he might cost just our picks back and not much additional assets.

I was going to mention this in my last post. It's possible. I don't think it's likely because of the ages. And Booker is a similar impact level of player right now.

But I would prefer to trade KD to Houston if Amen is deemed untouchable because we could send Booker elsewhere for better prospects+another team's picks, and use KD to get our picks back.

They also might only offer like two of our picks back for KD who will be 37 next year.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

What are our odds of actually going 30-17 the rest of the way as the season gets more difficult and competitive due to teams trying to secure the tiebreakers?

[Slim Charless]

I feel like Houston may want KD more than Booker as he might cost just our picks back and not much additional assets.

I was going to mention this in my last post. It's possible. I don't think it's likely because of the ages. And Booker is a similar impact level of player right now.

But I would prefer to trade KD to Houston if Amen is deemed untouchable because we could send Booker elsewhere for better prospects+another team's picks, and use KD to get our picks back.

They also might only offer like two of our picks back for KD who will be 37 next year.

Yup.

KD doesn't make sense for them. Booker OTOH can fit in with Sengun, Amen and whoever they keep. Actually, what I'm hoping is that Ish sees that a team with KD, Beal (hopefully off the bench) and other young pieces is a much better path to victory-cause it is. Getting our picks back is an added bonus.

This team needs young, hungry players. Athletic ones hopefully.

[bullsaficianado]

Read on Twitter

What are our odds of actually going 30-17 the rest of the way as the season gets more difficult and competitive due to teams trying to secure the tiebreakers?

Which is why the Butler trade needs to happen ASAP. Sure he will be out a few games due to the suspension but if we get to the trade deadline and playing well with Beal and Butler has not been traded forget it.

[sashaturiaf]

Butler isn't going to solve this mess. He only wants the Suns because the payday he will get.

I don't even think the Beal deal was that bad. I honestly think the Suns screwed up when they traded Ayton for Nurkic and Grayson, who are both negative assets at this point. The Suns lost any kind of defensive identity having a plodding starting center.

Anyway, if a deal needs to happen, I'd look for something else where the Suns get a couple of role players over Jimmy Butler.

Don't forget we gave us up Camara in that trade too.

I hate Ayton like anyone else here but we'd be a far bigger, more athletic and ultimately better team without that disaster class of a trade

[Saberestar]

Booker for Amen + our picks this off-season or at the trade deadline. Next year will be too late if it isn't already.

In fact I think it's probably best to just do it now.

Sengun and Amen are untouchable but we could probably get Jabari, Whitmore and our pick/swaps back…

Those guys Jabari and Whitmore arent that good. I'd want Jalen and hold hard Tari Eason included. If that doesn't work then two of Smith/Whitmore/Sheppard included with Jalen if we're talking backup plans.

Nothing suggests either Sengun or Amen are untouchable. In fact was reported to be an evaluation year or something along those lines, similar to OKC last year. What's clear is that the Rockets are positioning themselves for some kind of big offseason move to vault themselves into the true competitor tier. But you have to start negotiations from Amen Thompson because quite frankly if we're talking a Booker trade Amen is the only guy who actually gives us reasonably fair value back.

Amen Thompson is probably one of the most untouchable players in the league. I think it would be easier to get some young All-Stars than him.

His upside is ridiculously high and everyone in the league knows it.

OTOH I think Whitmore can be obtainable as a centerpiece (+picks) for KD or Book. That's realistic.

Whitmore looks a very good two-way wing than can explode if some team gives him the opportunity to play big minutes.

[garrick]

I do not think you are getting a first for Allen.
I think it's a poor use of assets at this point to deal 2 firsts to get off Beal.

IE: Blow it the F up and ride out Beals contract.

Read on Twitter

Allen and Nurkic are playing like hot garbage this year and I don't think either will get us a 1st round pick but if any team is foolish enough to give us 1st round picks the answer is not to trade them for an aging Jimmy Butler.

As much as I hated the Beal trade we should just eat his contract and not dig ourselves even deeper into a hole although I have zero faith that Ishbia and JJ have the common sense to do the right thing.

[Husky1]

I genuinely feel sorry for you guys for what this Clown Ishbia has done to your team.

[sunskerr]

Sengun and Amen are untouchable but we could probably get Jabari, Whitmore and our pick/swaps back…

Those guys Jabari and Whitmore arent that good. I'd want Jalen and hold hard Tari Eason included. If that doesn't work then two of Smith/Whitmore/Sheppard included with Jalen if we're talking backup plans.

Nothing suggests either Sengun or Amen are untouchable. In fact was reported to be an evaluation year or something along those lines, similar to OKC last year. What's clear is that the Rockets are positioning themselves for some kind of big offseason move to vault themselves into the true competitor tier. But you have to start negotiations from Amen Thompson because quite frankly if we're talking a Booker trade Amen is the only guy who actually gives us reasonably fair value back.

Amen Thompson is probably one of the most untouchable players in the league. I think it would be easier to get some young All-Stars than him.

His upside is ridiculously high and everyone in the league knows it.

OTOH I think Whitmore can be obtainable as a centerpiece (+picks) for KD or Book. That's realistic.

Whitmore looks an very good two-way wing than can explode if some team gives him the opportunity to play big minutes.

Whitmore is not particularly a great prospect by himself as a return for Booker (Rockets subreddit is also speculating Whitmore is not really a team first guy btw). You can get more than just him i.e. include him in a package around Jalen Green.

But it's Booker we're talking about. Booker's own value is very very high. The worst that happens is they say, "yeah it's a fair offer but we just like Amen", and then you move on to the next package.

But I'm also not going to be acting like I know what the Rockets specifically think of Amen Thompson. I know they like him a lot. It also matters how much they like Devin Booker, who has shown to be a guy who can get you 40 and the Rockets have nobody near (yeah, not even close) that offensive talent.

I'm guessing the Amen is untradeable sentiment here is just because of his last two games. I'm guessing people are seeing his stat lines while browsing reddit. Does it increase his value? Obviously. Would I be surprised if they turned Booker for him down? No. But that doesn't mean we have to settle for a guy who is averaging 14 mpg on a team trying to make the playoffs.

[Saberestar]

Those guys Jabari and Whitmore arent that good. I'd want Jalen and hold hard Tari Eason included. If that doesn't work then two of Smith/Whitmore/Sheppard included with Jalen if we're talking backup plans.

Nothing suggests either Sengun or Amen are untouchable. In fact was reported to be an evaluation year or something along those lines, similar to OKC last year. What's clear is that the Rockets are positioning themselves for some kind of big offseason move to vault themselves into the true competitor tier. But you have to start negotiations from Amen Thompson because quite frankly if we're talking a Booker trade Amen is the only guy who actually gives us reasonably fair value back.

Amen Thompson is probably one of the most untouchable players in the league. I think it would be easier to get some young All-Stars than him.

His upside is ridiculously high and everyone in the league knows it.

OTOH I think Whitmore can be obtainable as a centerpiece (+picks) for KD or Book. That's realistic.

Whitmore looks an very good two-way wing than can explode if some team gives him the opportunity to play big minutes.

Whitmore is not particularly a great lone prospect as a return for Booker (Rockets subreddit is also speculating Whitmore is not really a team first guy btw). You can get more than just him i.e. include him in a package around Jalen Green.

But it's Booker we're talking about. Booker's own value is very very very high (and if you talk advanced metrics he's a lot higher than Amen in EPM who also isn't a slouch). The worst that happens is they say, "yeah it's a fair offer but we just like Amen", and then you move on to the next package.

But I'm also not going to be acting like I know what the Rockets specifically think of Amen Thompson. I know they like him a lot. It also matters how much they like Devin Booker, who has shown to be a guy who can get you 40 and the Rockets have nobody near (yeah, not even close) that offensive talent.

I'm guessing the Amen is untradeable sentiment here is just because of his last two games. I'm guessing people are seeing his stat lines while browsing reddit. Does it increase his value? Obviously. Would I be surprised if they turned Booker for him down? No.

Amen Thompson is already one of the best defenders in the league and he keeps simproving, and he's not a Mikal/Tucker type of good defender...we are talking about Khawi/Rodman's tier.

When you are that great at defense AND you have the tools and skills that he has being 21 years old his ceiling is out of this world. Jaylen Brown+.

I agree that Whitmore isn't that great but in that hypothetical trade we would get our picks back.

All our picks + Whitmore + FVV.

[sunskerr]

Amen Thompson is probably one of the most untouchable players in the league. I think it would be easier to get some young All-Stars than him.

His upside is ridiculously high and everyone in the league knows it.

OTOH I think Whitmore can be obtainable as a centerpiece (+picks) for KD or Book. That's realistic.

Whitmore looks an very good two-way wing than can explode if some team gives him the opportunity to play big minutes.

Whitmore is not particularly a great lone prospect as a return for Booker (Rockets subreddit is also speculating Whitmore is not really a team first guy btw). You can get more than just him i.e. include him in a package around Jalen Green.

But it's Booker we're talking about. Booker's own value is very very very high (and if you talk advanced metrics he's a lot higher than Amen in EPM who also isn't a slouch). The worst that happens is they say, "yeah it's a fair offer but we just like Amen", and then you move on to the next package.

But I'm also not going to be acting like I know what the Rockets specifically think of Amen Thompson. I know they like him a lot. It also matters how much they like Devin Booker, who has shown to be a guy who can get you 40 and the Rockets have nobody near (yeah, not even close) that offensive talent.

I'm guessing the Amen is untradeable sentiment here is just because of his last two games. I'm guessing people are seeing his stat lines while browsing reddit. Does it increase his value? Obviously. Would I be surprised if they turned Booker for him down? No.

Amen Thompson is already one of the best defenders in the league and he keeps simproving, and he's not a Mikal/Tucker type of good defender...we are talking about Khawi/Rodman's tier.

When you are that great at defense AND you have the tools and skills that he has being 21 years old his ceiling is out of this world. Jaylen Brown+.

I agree that Whitmore isn't that great but in that hypothetical trade we would get our picks back.

All our picks + Whitmore + FVV.

Yeah we're getting robbed in that trade.

Yes, Amen is one of the best defenders in the league (his comparison isn't Jaylen Brown btw, it's Giannis). I know what kind of prospect he is because I was the person who was mentioning Amen last week before he had these last two games. Guess what? Booker is one of the best offensive players. When you have a top 10 offensive player at 28 years old you have an extremely valuable asset. Again there is no shame in starting the negotiation at that particularly when Booker is also literally exactly the kind of guy they will be looking for to finish building their contender (they have 0 shot creators).

Whitmore+Jalen Green+Picks is a fair starting point if the Amen call fails. Again, Whitmore is not a really high level prospect (-0.6 Darko). That would be a Jones level type of move to only ask for Whitmore.

[lementdeneux]

Fixed everything for everyone : ( works on trade machine )

- Suns get : J. Butler / Pj Tucker / N. Powell / D. Jones jr / T. Eason + 3 first rnd pick
- A more balanced roster with a Booker/ Butler duo
- 1 good young PF ( T. Eason )
- 2 good role players ( Powell - Jones )
- all picks back

- Heat get : F. Vanvlett / Kevin Dunn
a good return for grumpy Butler with a Vanvleet still in his prime and matching the Heat Culture.

- Rockets get : Kevin Durant
What they wanted to push for a title this next two years ( and Durant come back to Texas )

- Clipps get : Bradley Beal.
A third big star for some role players, and a Harden/Beal duo could work very well ( on paper )

[Saberestar]

Whitmore is not particularly a great lone prospect as a return for Booker (Rockets subreddit is also speculating Whitmore is not really a team first guy btw). You can get more than just him i.e. include him in a package around Jalen Green.

But it's Booker we're talking about. Booker's own value is very very very high (and if you talk advanced metrics he's a lot higher than Amen in EPM who also isn't a slouch). The worst that happens is they say, "yeah it's a fair offer but we just like Amen", and then you move on to the next package.

But I'm also not going to be acting like I know what the Rockets specifically think of Amen Thompson. I know they like him a lot. It also matters how much they like Devin Booker, who has shown to be a guy who can get you 40 and the Rockets have nobody near (yeah, not even close) that offensive talent.

I'm guessing the Amen is untradeable sentiment here is just because of his last two games. I'm guessing people are seeing his stat lines while browsing reddit. Does it increase his value? Obviously. Would I be surprised if they turned Booker for him down? No.

Amen Thompson is already one of the best defenders in the league and he keeps simproving, and he's not a Mikal/Tucker type of good defender...we are talking about Khawi/Rodman's tier.

When you are that great at defense AND you have the tools and skills that he has being 21 years old his ceiling is out of this world. Jaylen Brown+.

I agree that Whitmore isn't that great but in that hypothetical trade we would get our picks back.

All our picks + Whitmore + FVV.

Yeah we're getting robbed in that trade.

Yes, Amen is one of the best defenders in the league (his comparison isn't Jaylen Brown btw, it's Giannis). I know what kind of prospect he is because I was the person who was mentioning Amen last week before he had these last two games. Guess what? Booker is one of the best offensive players. When you have a top 10 offensive player at 28 years old you have an extremely valuable asset. Again there is no shame in starting the negotiation at that particularly when Booker is also literally exactly the kind of guy they will be looking for to finish building their contender (they have 0 shot creators).

Whitmore+Jalen Green+Picks is a fair starting point if the Amen call fails. Again, Whitmore is not a really high level prospect. That would be a Jones level type of move to only ask for Whitmore.

Yeah, I agree with you, obviously I would prefer to get Jalen Green + Whitmore (or Eason) + all our picks back.

My first impression is that Jalen Green has a HIGH value around the league with the way he is playing at 22 years old (23 next month) and on a fair long- term deal.

The difference between Jalen Green and Booker aren't three FRP + young prospect IMO.

[bullsaficianado]

Fixed everything for everyone : ( works on trade machine )

- Suns get : J. Butler / Pj Tucker / N. Powell / D. Jones jr / T. Eason + 3 first rnd pick
- A more balanced roster with a Booker/ Butler duo
- 1 good young PF ( T. Eason )
- 2 good role players ( Powell - Jones )
- all picks back

- Heat get : F. Vanvlett / Kevin Dunn
a good return for grumpy Butler with a Vanvleet still in his prime and matching the Heat Culture.

- Rockets get : Kevin Durant
What they wanted to push for a title this next two years ( and Durant come back to Texas )

- Clipps get : Bradley Beal.
A third big star for some role players, and a Harden/Beal duo could work very well ( on paper )

If getting Butler makes you lose Durant there is absolutely no point in trading for Butler.

[Calvin Klein]

Butler isn't going to solve this mess. He only wants the Suns because the payday he will get.

I don't even think the Beal deal was that bad. I honestly think the Suns screwed up when they traded Ayton for Nurkic and Grayson, who are both negative assets at this point. The Suns lost any kind of defensive identity having a plodding starting center.

Anyway, if a deal needs to happen, I'd look for something else where the Suns get a couple of role players over Jimmy Butler.

Don't forget we gave us up Camara in that trade too.

I hate Ayton like anyone else here but we'd be a far bigger, more athletic and ultimately better team without that disaster class of a trade

Ayton wanted out. He was done with the team and the team/fans were done with him. Doesn't make the trade good obviously but he wouldn't be playing for the Suns.

[bullsaficianado]

Butler isn't going to solve this mess. He only wants the Suns because the payday he will get.

I don't even think the Beal deal was that bad. I honestly think the Suns screwed up when they traded Ayton for Nurkic and Grayson, who are both negative assets at this point. The Suns lost any kind of defensive identity having a plodding starting center.

Anyway, if a deal needs to happen, I'd look for something else where the Suns get a couple of role players over Jimmy Butler.

Don't forget we gave us up Camara in that trade too.

I hate Ayton like anyone else here but we'd be a far bigger, more athletic and ultimately better team without that disaster class of a trade

Ayton wanted out. He was done with the team and the team/fans were done with him. Doesn't make the trade good obviously but he wouldn't be playing for the Suns.

Suns would not have traded Ayton if they did not have to do it. He obviously wanted out. Nurkic has his moments but Suns really need an athletic big like Ayton now to stretch the floor a bit. Oh well he gone he wanted out. See if you can get an athletic big for Allen. One of the Suns biggest weakness right now is no athletic big in the paint.

[sunskerr]

Yeah, I agree with you, obviously I would prefer to get Jalen Green + Whitmore (or Eason) + all our picks back.

My first impression is that Jalen Green has a HIGH value around the league with the way he is playing at 22 years old (23 next month) and on a fair long- term deal.

The difference between Jalen Green and Booker aren't three FRP + young prospect IMO.

You are underrating Booker here quite a bit. Booker is a top 10 offensive player by EPM and LEBRON even with his struggles this year (yeah lol, as poorly as he's shot this year). On court Booker is a much better shot creator and clearly a superior/more willing passer/playmaker for his team as well as proven when he can take the reigns as a point guard for long stretches.

Jalen Green is good on offense but he doesn't even approach Devin Booker in either of those metrics. Jalen also has developed rather slowly up to this fourth year, not really being a great passer. Not a great defender. He is ok in DARKO (+0.5), trending up, but if he never becomes a star it wouldn't be the most shocking thing.

Cam Whitmore isn't really pinging well on DARKO. I looked into what some Rockets fans say about him as well and it lines up with that - he has a really hard time hitting guys for open shots. He can get hot and score a bunch, which is nice, but that's about it. You get him as an asset hoping he develops well but if he doesn't become a star then you don't bat an eye. I like him as a secondary piece from that point of view.

If we called and asked for Whitmore by himself they would place a hand over the phone, laugh, and then accept it. If we asked for only Green and picks they would probably do the same. Teams can go 5+ years in the draft and never get a playmaker like Booker...Giving up 3 picks (3 years) is pretty fair.

If they want Booker, and I suspect they would want him way more than Fox because of fit, we can get something fair for both teams.

[sunsfan1o1]

Tyus jones needs to come off the bench. He’s trash. Plummlee too.
Put Beal back in at starting pg. Booker at 2, Dunn at 3 until Royce comes back then start Royce at 3. KD at 4 Nurk at 5.
Grayson Allen needs some DNP-CD.
Play Bol at backup 4 and Okogie instead of Allen. JO is shooting better than Allen and plays defense.
Coach needs to get it together.

[Slim Charless]

Amen Thompson is probably one of the most untouchable players in the league. I think it would be easier to get some young All-Stars than him.

His upside is ridiculously high and everyone in the league knows it.

OTOH I think Whitmore can be obtainable as a centerpiece (+picks) for KD or Book. That's realistic.

Whitmore looks an very good two-way wing than can explode if some team gives him the opportunity to play big minutes.

Whitmore is not particularly a great lone prospect as a return for Booker (Rockets subreddit is also speculating Whitmore is not really a team first guy btw). You can get more than just him i.e. include him in a package around Jalen Green.

But it's Booker we're talking about. Booker's own value is very very very high (and if you talk advanced metrics he's a lot higher than Amen in EPM who also isn't a slouch). The worst that happens is they say, "yeah it's a fair offer but we just like Amen", and then you move on to the next package.

But I'm also not going to be acting like I know what the Rockets specifically think of Amen Thompson. I know they like him a lot. It also matters how much they like Devin Booker, who has shown to be a guy who can get you 40 and the Rockets have nobody near (yeah, not even close) that offensive talent.

I'm guessing the Amen is untradeable sentiment here is just because of his last two games. I'm guessing people are seeing his stat lines while browsing reddit. Does it increase his value? Obviously. Would I be surprised if they turned Booker for him down? No.

Amen Thompson is already one of the best defenders in the league and he keeps simproving, and he's not a Mikal/Tucker type of good defender...we are talking about Khawi/Rodman's tier.

When you are that great at defense AND you have the tools and skills that he has being 21 years old his ceiling is out of this world. Jaylen Brown+.

I agree that Whitmore isn't that great but in that hypothetical trade we would get our picks back.

All our picks + Whitmore + FVV.

That's an awful trade lol. Jesus what's the matter with you? Easily just as bad as the KD trade or the Beal one. Worse even.

So you think Booker is a s*** player? Cause that's what you're saying with that offer.

Jalen Green
Jabari Smith
Cam Whitmore
Our picks

That's the minimum. We'll get that.

[dremill24]

Amen Thompson is already one of the best defenders in the league and he keeps simproving, and he's not a Mikal/Tucker type of good defender...we are talking about Khawi/Rodman's tier.

When you are that great at defense AND you have the tools and skills that he has being 21 years old his ceiling is out of this world. Jaylen Brown+.

I agree that Whitmore isn't that great but in that hypothetical trade we would get our picks back.

All our picks + Whitmore + FVV.

Yeah we're getting robbed in that trade.

Yes, Amen is one of the best defenders in the league (his comparison isn't Jaylen Brown btw, it's Giannis). I know what kind of prospect he is because I was the person who was mentioning Amen last week before he had these last two games. Guess what? Booker is one of the best offensive players. When you have a top 10 offensive player at 28 years old you have an extremely valuable asset. Again there is no shame in starting the negotiation at that particularly when Booker is also literally exactly the kind of guy they will be looking for to finish building their contender (they have 0 shot creators).

Whitmore+Jalen Green+Picks is a fair starting point if the Amen call fails. Again, Whitmore is not a really high level prospect. That would be a Jones level type of move to only ask for Whitmore.

Yeah, I agree with you, obviously I would prefer to get Jalen Green + Whitmore (or Eason) + all our picks back.

My first impression is that Jalen Green has a HIGH value around the league with the way he is playing at 22 years old (23 next month) and on a fair long- term deal.

The difference between Jalen Green and Booker aren't three FRP + young prospect IMO.

I think you're overrating Green. He certainly has amazing physical tools and is still quite young, but there are reasons he wasnt a no-brainer max extension and there are still those who think hes a bad contract. He could have a Booker-like ceiling but still has a long way to go. I think Houston would jump at the chance to do Green, Whitmore, and the picks since it sends away their least favorite prospects.