Game 36: Phoenix Suns (12-23) @ Sacramento Kings (12-20)

[Dirk]

140 points to the Kings? Not even the Sixers at their best tanking form. RIP Hornaceck.

[Frank Lee]

Made Sacramento look like a Golden State.

How long before it's no longer just 2 games / 3 games / 4 games from the 8th seed.

That would be.... 2 games / 3 games / and 4 games sir

[bwgood77]

If we give up 130 points to the Lakers tomorrow I think that'll be it for the coach.

I don't know how we can keep Hornacek. This goes beyond personnel at this point. I think our rotations and X's and O's are faulty, and while individual skills have developed, our team execution overall hasn't. I mean, even after adjusting expectations to what we are (the worst defense in the league, for instance), improvement should still occur. Instead, we just continue to not get better as a team defensive unit. Rotations and team defensive concepts should be getting better and they aren't. It's not excusable.

But why do you think we played so competitively against Cleveland and OKC, and most every team on that eastern road trip? Hornacek has made some bad coaching rotations, but I really don't know that Earl Watson or whoever would have done much better so far. I think we should gradually get better regardless of coach as the young guys continue to gain confidence though.

[letsgosuns]

The Kings have 103 points after three quarters. They are 12-20. They also just lost to the 76ers at home like the Suns did and scored a total of 105 points that entire game.

And they were favored by six and are not missing their best player.

I mean, I agree with you, this is ugly and after having guys like KJ, Kidd and Nash, our pgs are so often just terrible to watch. I don't know what we can do. They will be tough to trade.

I think the Suns could trade Knight as a salary dump. I mentioned this trade a couple times already of Knight, Markieff, and Tucker to the Nets for Joe Johnson just to get out of their contracts. Start Ronnie Price and Booker together the rest of the season and bring Johnson off the bench. Then maybe the Suns could trade Bledsoe on draft night for a top ten draft pick. Draft two guys and go young with everyone. Bring in Bogdanovich next year to back up Booker.

[ATTL]

Awful defense and rebounding tonight.
Good show from booker and warren, who weren't without faults of course.

[AtheJ415]

Can't believe people here thinks Knight is a good player

Hang on.


Knight CAN BE and HAS BEEN a good player.

Lately... You have to blame the coach for not controlling him.
On the Spurs.. Watch him become a top scoring PG.

Yeah. He's not played well this year on the whole. But we're misusing him and putting him in an offense that asks him to do what his weaknesses are. I think most players would look that way. I am fine with him running an occasional pick and roll, but I'd like to see him get run off of screens off the ball, allowing him to use his speed to get open. It wouldn't take away the drive depending on how it's defended, and if you hit him while curling off the screen he could have great momentum and space driving.

I don't think we have adjusted our schemes to fit our personnel on either side of the ball. Knight as the primary PG would need to be in a non-free-flowing offense. I think most youngsters would be better in a more controlled offense because their IQ isn't really developed at the NBA level. If I was the coach, we'd run at every opportunity, but our entire half court offense would be revamped. But regardless of the offense, the defense is the real problem. This defense has gotten worse despite adding a DPOY. Unless Hornacek can show he can coach defense AT ALL, how could he be a head coach in this league?

[KLEON]

The funniest thing is that I remember last season people were saying Knight should've been an all-star when he was with the Bucks

[saintEscaton]

140 points to the Kings? Not even the Sixers at their best tanking form. RIP Hornaceck.

At this points its not even unintentional "stealth tanking". This is a new level of unparalled suckage

[thamadkant]

If we give up 130 points to the Lakers tomorrow I think that'll be it for the coach.

I don't know how we can keep Hornacek. This goes beyond personnel at this point. I think our rotations and X's and O's are faulty, and while individual skills have developed, our team execution overall hasn't. I mean, even after adjusting expectations to what we are (the worst defense in the league, for instance), improvement should still occur. Instead, we just continue to not get better as a team defensive unit. Rotations and team defensive concepts should be getting better and they aren't. It's not excusable.

But why do you think we played so competitively against Cleveland and OKC, and most every team on that eastern road trip? Hornacek has made some bad coaching rotations, but I really don't know that Earl Watson or whoever would have done much better so far. I think we should gradually get better regardless of coach as the young guys continue to gain confidence though.

I can assume Cavs played below their usual. I know I watch heaps of their games and Lebron was FLAT in that game.

Thunder?... Suns looked energized and Thunder didnt take Suns seriously.


Letting Kings score 142 in regulation is a crisis defensively.

[Cutter]

Someone posted this observation previously about how half this forum has been wanting to tank for draft picks, then once we start losing become outraged and want the coach fired. Seems bi-polar to me.

It's a matter of playing youth correctly. Losing while playing correctly is fine, losing the way the Suns do is unacceptable. Yes, it has to do with players, but i think it's more on the coaching staff at this point.

The young players are learning to play losing basketball.

Losing never looks good from a passionate fans perspective. Hornacek is starting to develop Warren and Booker by giving then heavy heavy minutes. Having Leuer or Mirza play the C is not stupid, it's perfectly smart based on matchups. We have a certain style of play that we run by spreading the floor, taking a lot of 3's plus guard penetration and dishing to the perimeter. We started off decently the first part of the season, but obviously the wheels have fallen off and we are in young player development mode.

I personally am neutral on keeping Hornacek. Firing him and replacing him with another coach isnt going to fix anything. I am of the opinion our problems are talent level related, not coaching related.

[RunDogGun]

:wink:

Someone posted this observation previously about how half this forum has been wanting to tank for draft picks, then once we start losing become outraged and want the coach fired. Seems bi-polar to me.

Yeah, that's just being hypocritical. It's been mentioned by me and Nav I believe. Everyone thought we should go young, play the young guys win or lose, and even if we lose, we get a high pick. That is now happening and there is outrage.

Knight is disappointing, but you can't really just bench a guy we gave that nice contract to.

My guess is that if we don't win soon, Hornacek will be fired. I still think one more year with a constant roster the entire season and no Kieff, with another piece or too with a Kieff and possibly Tucker trade, and a draft pick, we could really make a better evaluation than Hornacek.

But right now he is still learning, knows the players strengths and weaknesses, and with a little continuity things might look a lot different.

But if he gets canned and Watson takes over, or Bjorken, then I will hope for the best. I'm not sure what that will do for this season though. The young guys are already playing now so they are developing.

Knight is only 23. We have been playing our young guys.

[saintEscaton]

Someone posted this observation previously about how half this forum has been wanting to tank for draft picks, then once we start losing become outraged and want the coach fired. Seems bi-polar to me.

It's a matter of playing youth correctly. Losing while playing correctly is fine, losing the way the Suns do is unacceptable. Yes, it has to do with players, but i think it's more on the coaching staff at this point.

The young players are learning to play losing basketball.

Losing never looks good from a passionate fans perspective. Hornacek is starting to develop Warren and Booker by giving then heavy heavy minutes. Having Leuer or Mirza play the C is not stupid, it's perfectly smart based on matchups. We have a certain style of play that we run by spreading the floor, taking a lot of 3's plus guard penetration and dishing to the perimeter. We started off decently the first part of the season, but obviously the wheels have fallen off and we are in young player development mode.

I personally am neutral on keeping Hornacek. Firing him and replacing him with another coach isnt going to fix anything. I am of the opinion our problems are talent level related, not coaching related.

Its definitely a combination of both and its delusional to deny either one

[AtheJ415]

If we give up 130 points to the Lakers tomorrow I think that'll be it for the coach.

I don't know how we can keep Hornacek. This goes beyond personnel at this point. I think our rotations and X's and O's are faulty, and while individual skills have developed, our team execution overall hasn't. I mean, even after adjusting expectations to what we are (the worst defense in the league, for instance), improvement should still occur. Instead, we just continue to not get better as a team defensive unit. Rotations and team defensive concepts should be getting better and they aren't. It's not excusable.

But why do you think we played so competitively against Cleveland and OKC, and most every team on that eastern road trip? Hornacek has made some bad coaching rotations, but I really don't know that Earl Watson or whoever would have done much better so far. I think we should gradually get better regardless of coach as the young guys continue to gain confidence though.

The lack of movement on offense is a big part of what makes our offense look like a dumpster fire at times. It's predictable, purposeless, and if not for us having some guys who are really good at going one on one, we'd not be a good offense imo. That said, we are statistically a good offense, so I"ll leave that for now.

What has Hornacek ever done that suggests he can get a team to play defense? I'm just not seeing any improvement, and my expectations are already adjusted to us being the worst defensive team in hoops. Yet, we continue to fail to meet my expectations. I just want to see some semblance of team defensive improvement. I don't, and haven't, seen it all year.

[Mulhollanddrive]

We have the 3rd most losses now.

[RunDogGun]

Someone posted this observation previously about how half this forum has been wanting to tank for draft picks, then once we start losing become outraged and want the coach fired. Seems bi-polar to me.

It's a matter of playing youth correctly. Losing while playing correctly is fine, losing the way the Suns do is unacceptable. Yes, it has to do with players, but i think it's more on the coaching staff at this point.

The young players are learning to play losing basketball.

Losing never looks good from a passionate fans perspective. Hornacek is starting to develop Warren and Booker by giving then heavy heavy minutes. Having Leuer or Mirza play the C is not stupid, it's perfectly smart based on matchups. We have a certain style of play that we run by spreading the floor, taking a lot of 3's plus guard penetration and dishing to the perimeter. We started off decently the first part of the season, but obviously the wheels have fallen off and we are in young player development mode.

I personally am neutral on keeping Hornacek. Firing him and replacing him with another coach isnt going to fix anything. I am of the opinion our problems are talent level related, not coaching related.

We have a consistency issue. I'm not sure if it confidence or what, but we have a lot of guys that will keep chucking when they can't hit anything, and we don't get the ball to guys who are on fire.

[letsgosuns]

Impossible not to be excited about Warren and Booker. Those guys are the future. The Suns should build around them.

On the other hand, back to back games that Knight has been schooled by real point guards. First Westbrook and now Rondo. Knight should take note.

[saintEscaton]

:wink:

Someone posted this observation previously about how half this forum has been wanting to tank for draft picks, then once we start losing become outraged and want the coach fired. Seems bi-polar to me.

Yeah, that's just being hypocritical. It's been mentioned by me and Nav I believe. Everyone thought we should go young, play the young guys win or lose, and even if we lose, we get a high pick. That is now happening and there is outrage.

Knight is disappointing, but you can't really just bench a guy we gave that nice contract to.

My guess is that if we don't win soon, Hornacek will be fired. I still think one more year with a constant roster the entire season and no Kieff, with another piece or too with a Kieff and possibly Tucker trade, and a draft pick, we could really make a better evaluation than Hornacek.

But right now he is still learning, knows the players strengths and weaknesses, and with a little continuity things might look a lot different.

But if he gets canned and Watson takes over, or Bjorken, then I will hope for the best. I'm not sure what that will do for this season though. The young guys are already playing now so they are developing.

Knight is only 23. We have been playing our young guys.

He's no spring chicken, he's essentially a veteran in his fifth season who just started his NBA career at a young age .He is what he is at this point and its not too early to come at a verdict on him. Some habits die hard and cannot be reverted.

[RunDogGun]

We have the 3rd most losses now.

Just like most fans want.

[AtheJ415]

It's a matter of playing youth correctly. Losing while playing correctly is fine, losing the way the Suns do is unacceptable. Yes, it has to do with players, but i think it's more on the coaching staff at this point.

The young players are learning to play losing basketball.

Losing never looks good from a passionate fans perspective. Hornacek is starting to develop Warren and Booker by giving then heavy heavy minutes. Having Leuer or Mirza play the C is not stupid, it's perfectly smart based on matchups. We have a certain style of play that we run by spreading the floor, taking a lot of 3's plus guard penetration and dishing to the perimeter. We started off decently the first part of the season, but obviously the wheels have fallen off and we are in young player development mode.

I personally am neutral on keeping Hornacek. Firing him and replacing him with another coach isnt going to fix anything. I am of the opinion our problems are talent level related, not coaching related.

Its definitely a combination of both and its delusional to deny either one

Yup. Look, our talent is developing. It's not that we're talentless, and we are in a better spot going forward talent-wise, but obviously we don't have enough talent, particularly sans Bledsoe, to play as well as many expect.

That said, our coaching has been every bit the disappointment that the talent-level has been. Team buy-in, leadership, execution, team discipline, chemistry,and development are all impacted by coaching. What have we done that has improved any of these? I see individual skills improving, but that's it. Everything team-related looks to be getting worse.

[RunDogGun]

:wink:

Yeah, that's just being hypocritical. It's been mentioned by me and Nav I believe. Everyone thought we should go young, play the young guys win or lose, and even if we lose, we get a high pick. That is now happening and there is outrage.

Knight is disappointing, but you can't really just bench a guy we gave that nice contract to.

My guess is that if we don't win soon, Hornacek will be fired. I still think one more year with a constant roster the entire season and no Kieff, with another piece or too with a Kieff and possibly Tucker trade, and a draft pick, we could really make a better evaluation than Hornacek.

But right now he is still learning, knows the players strengths and weaknesses, and with a little continuity things might look a lot different.

But if he gets canned and Watson takes over, or Bjorken, then I will hope for the best. I'm not sure what that will do for this season though. The young guys are already playing now so they are developing.

Knight is only 23. We have been playing our young guys.

He's no spring chicken, he's essentially a young veteran in his fifth season who just started his NBA career early. He is what he is at this point ,some habits die hard and cannot be reverted.

No, he is a young player learning a whole new position.