Draft Discussion Part 3

[King4Day]

I'm vey concerned that the Lakers take Fox and Philly still takes Jackson. We then snag ball and still end up with that mess

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[Saberestar]

I'm vey concerned that the Lakers take Fox and Philly still takes Jackson. We then snag ball and still end up with that mess

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I am not concerned about it because I think that he is gonna be picked by the Lakers. Pretty much sure about it.

Regarding our pick, I would like Fox or Monk if we have ready a good trade for Bledsoe. I like both players a lot, and they look a good fit next to Booker and Ulis as a three men backcourt.

[Qwigglez]

Not taking Smith even if we had a pick in the 7-10 range. Might as well just hold onto Bledsoe if we are worried about his knees. Right now my big board looks like this...
Fultz


Tatum
Fox/Isaac
Jackson/Ball

I'm not sure why I rank Tatum so high. I feel like he reminds me of a Melo, Gay, Pierce kind of player. I believe his absolute floor is possibly Tobias Harris. I know we are worried about fit, but if we were going BPA and completely disregarding our team I'd say Tatum is the best product.
I'll start by saying he has the most polished offensive game coming from this draft class (maybe better than Fultz or at least on par). He has incredible footwork, I've seen very few 19 years old with his footwork. His ability to score in isolation makes me think he can be an all-star in the future. Without saying too much that you can't already find on him on Draftexpress or any other site, I think it's fair to say he's the best prospect at 4.

Watch on YouTube

A couple of things I want to highlight watching this clip...
At 1:08 mark - Shows the ability to absorb contact and still finish strong.
At 1:42 - Grabs rebound, has the handles to take the ball up the court himself, doesn't finish the layup, but still gets the foul.
At 2:02 - Not a very difficult play to make, but notices the second defender and makes the pass for an open three.
2:10 - Closes out on defender and beats everyone down the court for a fast break layup.
2:42 and 3:21- Pick and roll game. I wanted to highlight this because I wanted to run a scenario. Imagine a pick and roll with Booker/Tatum. Booker can either take whoever it is guarding Tatum's guy off the dribble or a pull up three. Or simply pass to Tatum who can run his iso-game on the smaller two guard. Seems like the easiest bucket ever either way.

Watch on YouTube

1:07 -Good (enough) defense, grabs rebound, again he can bring the ball up himself. Looks to scan the floor before driving it to the rim and getting fouled.
1:32 - Good help defense that results in a steal, one man fastbreak that results in the easy layup.
3:14 - This is his 4th or 5th three made this game. This is a big one, and comes off the dribble and is definitely an NBA three. Shows killer instinct to me. Can't block that shot too.
3:47 - He's feeling it. Shows he can make 3's from anywhere though. Off the dribble, catch and shoot, you name it.

Watch on YouTube

2:06 - Broke that full court press pretty easily, even with a double team. Has the vision to see the open man for the finish.
2:27 - Nothing special really here, just showcasing his versatility, can take his man off the dribble, get in the paint and finish with a leaning jumper.
2:42 - Juked his man, shows he can play off the ball for a backdoor cut.
3:54 - I don't know what happen that game, but Duke was down double digits at one point, Tatum hits a clutch catch and shoot 3.

To me, Tatum is the obvious No 4 pick if he is available. I watched his weakness video that DX does and everything looks fixable. My biggest concern with all draft picks is their mental makeup though. What kind of player does Tatum want to be? Does he have that alpha quality, does he have that relentless motor, that drive to be the best? That's my biggest concern picking this high.

[NavLDO]

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Pretty sure Schultz is being fed BS by some executive for a while now but this would make the draft interesting.

This would make me cry, that is, if Ball was passed up by the Lakers. I don't want McD to even have an inkling of a thought about drafting Ball. If Ball is there at 4, that likely means McD's target is not, so I hope at that point, there s a team in the next 3 that want to trade up, because I agree with the overall sentiment that after the top 7 or so talent, there is a drop-off to a group of about 10 that are all of similar value, and I'd hate to take a guy at 8 that we likely could've had at 15, if that makes sense.

Oh, and this is coming from a guy that has just briefly reviewed this draft this year, so I could EASILY be wrong about a few things, but I am fairly confident I do not want Ball and his drama on this team; dude is tailor-made for LA.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I have a little different view on that. If mcd trades Bledsoe and Chandler he would be all in on the youth movement, expectations for wins would be low. If the team played hard and showed development his job would be safe. And frankly if the young guys don't show development then its probably time for a regime change next summer.

Now if he keeps the vets and adds some more expectations are higher and now his job is tied more to wins.

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There is the consideration that in taking back Pekovics' contract, Minnesota gains much more cap space, Allowing them to chose a veteran of their preference now to bolster their playoff hopes in addition to the boost that Bledsoe will already give them production wise, and in terms of leadership and veteran presence/experience. pretty much assuring them of their goal of making it into the playoffs.

Therefore I believe that no necessary additional compensation would be needed to accomplish this trade. However, Should we have any interest whatsoever in Rubio? I'm fairly sure given the reports of Thibedoughs' desire to move on from him, that he could be added to our returning package.


But overall, I'm certain in that Bledsoe and taking back Pekovics' contract will suffice to acquire the pick from Minnesota. In an extreme circumstance(If necessary) I would be open to sending back Chandler to minnesota in the deal, But I just don't know if they'd want to add back his contract to their cap after gaining so much cap room by moving peks' contract in the deal. But in no way, would I entertain throwing in our # 32 pick as well. That pick is "essential" to our hopes of acquiring potential "steals of the draft" In Bam Edebayo and/or Semi Ojeleye, Or even possibly Jonathan Jeanne.

They can't trade peks contract because hes going to be ruled as a medical retire and his money will clear off their books. Aldridges contract is the one they would probably want to dump.

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I See,Darn espn trade machine .I really wish they would list the important details more. Anyways, Great eye once again Weepaug maybe this adjusted trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gt6f74q .

This is the most basic trade we can do with them at this point. But it appears to be beneficial for both teams interest in it's entirety

Or If any cap relief is needed to sweeten the deal for Minne, Then we just take Cole Aldrich back to give them an added $ 7 million a yer in savings to use on another veteran to add to their core?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaetvlg6 .

Whatever we choose to do, We had better hurry up and make some sort of offer to Minne, As it appears that New York is apparantly desiring to capture Minnesotas' high value #7 pick. I would imagine their intent is just to secure the possability of Nitkilina or Dennis Smith Jr. before they might be off the board at their pick.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Pretty sure Schultz is being fed BS by some executive for a while now but this would make the draft interesting.

This would make me cry, that is, if Ball was passed up by the Lakers. I don't want McD to even have an inkling of a thought about drafting Ball. If Ball is there at 4, that likely means McD's target is not, so I hope at that point, there s a team in the next 3 that want to trade up, because I agree with the overall sentiment that after the top 7 or so talent, there is a drop-off to a group of about 10 that are all of similar value, and I'd hate to take a guy at 8 that we likely could've had at 15, if that makes sense.

Oh, and this is coming from a guy that has just briefly reviewed this draft this year, so I could EASILY be wrong about a few things, but I am fairly confident I do not want Ball and his drama on this team; dude is tailor-made for LA.

The good news is that "IF" somehow the Lakers DO pass on ball at #2, Then I just don't see any reasonable way that the 76ers' don't take him(ball) at #3. They have been enamored with the idea of getting a premiere point guard for so long now, That this scenario would then allow them to use their(cap) money on a shooter ( J.J. Reddick?) instead of on Lowry? Which also works out great for us in that, we end up now having Josh Jackson fall into our laps at #4.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Pretty sure Schultz is being fed BS by some executive for a while now but this would make the draft interesting.

Schultz certainly throws alot of **** at the wall hoping some sticks but I don't see it as some absolute lock the lakers take ball. Just because he wants to go there doesn't mean the lakers have any obligation to grant his wish. Not only is there the family circus aspect but he's not the cleanest prospect on the floor either.

Keep an eye who he works out for. If he does end up doing a workout for the sixers and/or suns that will tell me he's getting doubts the lakers will take him.

Im FAR from a ball fan and would be super scared if the suns took him but as I said pre lotto I might be able to talk myself into humbled chip on his shoulder lonzo whos jilted by the lakers and goes from laker super fan to laker hater.

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Man, You make great points! In reflecting on info from about a week back, I remember some tweets coming from "Lonzos" camp that he was now open to practicing for teams such as the 76ers' as well as even the Sacramento kings. This would have me somewhat suspect(hoping lonzos' camp would be having some sort of inside info on this!)that they have discovered the Lakers' increasing interest in Fox and his potential over Balls'. And that they now are becoming increasingly aware that he(ball) will not end up a Laker on draft day!

Again, I am fine with this as I believe the end result will have the 76ers' taking him(ball) at#3 and thusly......Josh Jackson falling into our laps at #4. Either way, It will be comically entertaining to see the circus that ensues with Lavar ball after.

[NavLDO]

Some people focus too much on traditional positions. This is oversimplified but I look at the league much less position based and more of a free flowing spread and roll league so when looking for players I'd find guys who fit that more than trying to put them in a 1-5 positional box. Find guys defensively who can switch a p&r and some guys who can come from the weak side and block a shot. On O you need guys who can shoot well enough to space the floor, a couple good guards who can run the p&r, and a couple rim runners for the roll. Thats why a guy like chriss is valuable because if he reaches his potential he gives you shooting and rolling which opens up the pick and pop game too. Now you still need a couple guys who can play a little iso ball when the game slows down and you need a bucket.

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Couldn't agree more, Weeka! (Gotta come up with a short nickname for you! Does that work?)

[NavLDO]

Read on Twitter

Pretty sure Schultz is being fed BS by some executive for a while now but this would make the draft interesting.

This would make me cry, that is, if Ball was passed up by the Lakers. I don't want McD to even have an inkling of a thought about drafting Ball. If Ball is there at 4, that likely means McD's target is not, so I hope at that point, there s a team in the next 3 that want to trade up, because I agree with the overall sentiment that after the top 7 or so talent, there is a drop-off to a group of about 10 that are all of similar value, and I'd hate to take a guy at 8 that we likely could've had at 15, if that makes sense.

Oh, and this is coming from a guy that has just briefly reviewed this draft this year, so I could EASILY be wrong about a few things, but I am fairly confident I do not want Ball and his drama on this team; dude is tailor-made for LA.

The good news is that "IF" somehow the Lakers DO pass on ball at #2, Then I just don't see any reasonable way that the 76ers' don't take him(ball) at #3. They have been enamored with the idea of getting a premiere point guard for so long now, That this scenario would then allow them to use their(cap) money on a shooter ( J.J. Reddick?) instead of on Lowry? Which also works out great for us in that, we end up now having Josh Jackson fall into our laps at #4.

But, I question, if Ball is passed, do the Lakers take Jackson? Or Monk? Because, remember, if the Lakers skip ball, they need to take somebody, so who is it they take? Very possibly it's Jackson, but could be Fox, I suppose.

And, regardless of scenario or how I happens, but if Jackson and Tatum are on the Board, does McD automatically take Jackson over Tatum? I get what is said about the differences in their game, but I think there are a few things that are being overlooked with Jackson--1) He's already 20, and a full year older than Tatum, 2) With that age comes the potential, as was reported in his profile, that he's done 'growing', and his physical 'length' and relative thin frame is a concern for a prospect that is looking to be taken at #4 overall, and 3) His FT% is abysmal for a non-Center prospect, again, for a top 5...not a huge concern, of course, but overall, I feel Tatum is a much 'cleaner' prospect at 4th overall, and McD's penchant for youth may win out come draft day...who knows?

[lilfishi22]

I have two worries in this draft:

1. Ball becomes available - this tells me that as lauded as he is and as much of a match he should be with the Lakers, that if even LA passes on him then it's a legit worry. If that happens, it means either he isn't a talent worthy​ of being taken that high and/or the people around him is too much to handle. If he doesn't ball out (don't mind the pun) in his first season, I think Lavar is going to turn a lot of fans who otherwise may have given him a chance. Both of these possibilities now makes me think he's too much of a risk imo.

2. What to do with TJ? - Tatum and Jackson are my two guys at #4. TJ is a starter level SF (almost 18/8 post-AS) and if he does get resigned then Tatum and Jackson won't be getting much minutes and may not since TJ would be around for the long haul. I really like TJ as a 3rd option on a very good team so I do like him to be around but then we'll be doing Tatum or Jackson a disservice but not giving them a path to become a starter.

Fox to me may not be BPA but he arguably may be the best fit for this team.

[Frank Lee]

........And, regardless of scenario or how I happens, but if Jackson and Tatum are on the Board, does McD automatically take Jackson over Tatum.....

I dont think anything is automatic. The pathways of W/Bled + WO/Bled have to be determined, and thats likely a draft day scenario. The offers for #4 will be weighed....Also, would not be surprised if packaging Warren with #32 is not a route being considered. McDo has been averaging 4-5 new players/roster moves an off season.... is there anything that says he will be different ? Plus, he needs to. No way should he be content with a sub 30 win team and just hope guys play to/over their potentials. At least the CBA now allows for 17 players, which should be a boost the Prescott team.

[STEV13]

I've wanted Tatum for quite a while, but recently I've been warming up to Fox being the BPA at 4. Telling you guys that inside-out dribble will be a money maker, he's really quick and if he somehow gets a little consistency and more confidence on that 3-ball... he's no John Wall but he can be elite.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Some people focus too much on traditional positions. This is oversimplified but I look at the league much less position based and more of a free flowing spread and roll league so when looking for players I'd find guys who fit that more than trying to put them in a 1-5 positional box. Find guys defensively who can switch a p&r and some guys who can come from the weak side and block a shot. On O you need guys who can shoot well enough to space the floor, a couple good guards who can run the p&r, and a couple rim runners for the roll. Thats why a guy like chriss is valuable because if he reaches his potential he gives you shooting and rolling which opens up the pick and pop game too. Now you still need a couple guys who can play a little iso ball when the game slows down and you need a bucket.

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Couldn't agree more, Weeka! (Gotta come up with a short nickname for you! Does that work?)

Thanks. Guess I should have picked a shorter phish song for a username sure that works

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[batsmasher]

Less than 3 weeks, crazy. And then Summer League is suddenly here.

.... and then that massive month without anything (which thankfully lines up with AFL finals time )

[Stix]

Has a top 7 pick ever been traded for a guy over 25 who isn't an All-Star?

I was surprised to read Minnesota fans open to the idea.

J-Rich was traded in the '07 draft but that was for the #8 pick. Close enough though.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

if we were going BPA and completely disregarding our team I'd say Tatum is the best product.

Solid breakdown, Qwiggz. If you're drafting purely on BPA, I agree - Tatum is no lower than #3 on that list. A year younger than Jackson with the same numbers, but gets a lot of his points on NBA scoring moves and clearly has the better outside shot. I also prefer his physical profile to Jackson's energy. Jackson reminds of Kenneth Faried with ballhandling skills.

But I can't overcome the terrible logistics of going after Tatum. I know this is McD's pet peeve. And I think that Booker and Tatum would actually work really well together, as you can only put your best defender on one of them. But if you draft Tatum, you now have some real issues with your roster.

TJ is obviously the first part. He and Tatum overlap. That much will be immediately apparent to both players and their agents. Even if we can get TJ to agree to an extension after drafting Tatum, it's not a great mix of talent at the SF position if those are the two guys you're playing.

Drafting Tatum while keeping TJ would also mean pushing DJJ almost entirely out of the rotation. For a guy his age with his physical gifts and the defensive abilities we saw last season, I think that would be a tragedy. We don't know how much room this kid still has to grow. Hell, just adding a 35% 3FG and ten pounds of muscle could make him a starter-quality player. We need to continue to find this kid PT.

Then you add in the fact that in time, Tatum might be more well suited to the 4. We just drafted two guys at the PF position. If we draft Tatum, then of our five most talented young players, four of them would be forwards who can neither play the 2 nor *start* at the five. We could plan to go small nearly all the time, I guess, and maybe that's what McD is thinking, which brings me to...

Bender. I have gotten pushback on the idea that he is a 3, but I think he can play the spot on defense and in any case *does* play this spot on offense. He likes to stick to the perimeter, come of screens, hit threes, handle the ball, drive and pass. Even on defense, he gets his blocks on the weakside, not the strongside. The only thing he does that a center should is facilitate from the top of the key - and in that respect, he could be elite. But in any case, I don't seem him as a regular starting center. Nor do I view Chriss that way. I think both are better defending small forwards than centers at this point. But Tatum? Like Chriss and Bender, he's probably *best* defending power forwards.

So, yes, I agree, BPA. But probably the worst fit in the entire draft. He's a terrible fit for Philly, too, so if he slips to Sacto at 5, he'll be a steal there. As I've said, I don't get the Rudy Gay comparisons, as Rudy only showed flashes of an offensive game in college, whereas Tatum is coming in looking like Paul Pierce from the get go. And I can easily see Tatum being the ROY.

Something's gotta give. And I think the most obvious thing to give would be TJ, since the degree of overlap is so great. I think Tatum's a better prospect than TJ, and I think he's probably better than Chriss was as well (though it's close). But not Bender. Bender is my true concern, and I have yet to see any poster really consider what we are to do with Bender going forward if we take a 3. Is the second-best prospect on our team really going to be nailed to the bench for his career? Are we really going to force him to guard centers, when it's clear that he plays best with a target for his interior passing? I'd hate to see us go that route.

I don't think drafting Tatum is an impossible fit. He, Chriss and Bender could form our frontline in a "death lineup." All three can shoot, but they are all very different on offense: Bender is a creator/facilitator; Chriss is a versatile finisher from deep and at the rim; Tatum is the 1v1 specialist. You'd still need a starting center, but otherwise, long term, those pieces can fit.

But bottom line: you'd have to move TJ. Moreso than you'd have to move Bled if you picked Fox, since Fox can theoretically play some off-guard, due to his length, and there's PT to be earned in our backcourt, generally. Not the case in the front court, where we're too damn deep. I'd be keener on this if I thought TJ were properly valued on the trade market, but I don't think that's the case. I suspect, also, that TJ still has another level to reach as a player, and I'd like to see that happen here, if at all possible.

So that's my question. Say we go with Tatum. What's the next move? Because if we do nothing, Bender is locked into a backup 4/5 role, TJ's future and minutes are compromised, and DJJ is all but locked out (and remember, we won't have his RFA rights, so if we squander his development, we squander the opportunity). Suboptimal, in my view. And I have a hard time imagining McD coming up with a workable fix. Can anyone here?

[Saberestar]

^
DJJ is under contract for the next three years (with team option).

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

^
DJJ is under contract for the next three years (with team option).

At which time, he will be 22, and he will not be RFA. Sorry if my writing is not always perfectly clear.

[sportscrazy]

If Josh Jackson was Philly's pick, but just ensure the trade value of the 3rd pick being maximized. Would the Suns try to beat out other offers for the 3rd overall pick by overpaying to move up 1 spot?

Eric Bledsoe and 4th Overall for Reggie Jackson and 3rd Overall
Reggie Jackson and 12th Overall for Eric Bledsoe
3rd Overall for 4th Overall and 12th Overall

[DirtyDez]

Bringing in Reggie Jackson would stunt the development of your young players so no. If they're that hellbent on JJ there has to be better ways.