2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[m1chal]

Why the hell are we trying to trade for frikin Kennard?

Seriously, I don’t get it either. Steve Novak was a great 3pt shooter too iirc and I don’t remember anyone saying we should give up a lottery pick for him.

Kennard has just 1 yr left on his deal too.

.. and he's a poor defender and injury prone on top of that. This whole idea doesn't make sense to me, especially for a FRP. Pass.
I might be interested in Bogdan though but it all depends on who's available when we pick.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Swap Frank and Saric for me. If Frank isn't hitting shots he's a liability. Saric will at least play average defense and give you some playmaking.

I'm thinking more along this line

Rubio/Payne
Booker/Carter
Bridges/Oubre
Cam Johnson/Saric
Ayton/Baynes

Frank can be third-string PF and C. We need to address backups for Rubio and Booker. The real question is Oubre being dangled on the trade market. I'm not opposed to keeping this team together but we need to have options for the backcourt-second unit.

Odd guys out might be Diallo, Okobo, Lecque, and Jerome, although the last two are guaranteed contracts I think. Oubre is a big question mark with both his injury and pending free agency. I wonder if we could get Detroit to bite on a trade ... Kennard/Rose for Oubre. The trade doesn't work straight up and Detroit would have to add another player to satisfy the dollars-in/out part of the deal. It sure would solve bench depth in the backcourt.

That would be a great trade for us...probably too good to happen.

And what about Derrick Rose and Kennard for Oubre + #10?

Rubio/Rose/Payne
Booker/Kennard/Carter
Bridges/Cam
Cam/Saric/Kaminsky
Ayton/Baynes

Guys, Perhaps we could do something along these lines:

Phoenix/ Detroit
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yycbnm29

We can add the 10 if needed honestly.
Then we purchase a late first early 2nd round pick for Paul Reed or Jalen Smith? And since Henson and McCrae are both expirings ( monetary placeholders) We can use the additional money acquired from moving Oubre to sign Gallinari.

Or maybe this?
1- Phoenix/ Philly/ Detroit
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y2tu4yth

**In this trade,
- Philly gets the 10th pick and Ty Jerome.
- Detroit gets- Josh Richardson and the 20th pick.
- Phoenix gets Kennard.

** Phoenix buys a late first/ early 2nd for Reed or Tyler Bey. Then uses their midlevel exception to sign Justin Holiday ( backup 2 guard) to play off of Kennard.

*** Or we just flip the 10th pick for Kennard, Then move Oubre to Houston for Eric Gordon's expiring contract.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yxaygmhe .

Or we can do this variation.
2- Phoenix/ Detroit/ Philly
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y6mytuny
- Phoenix sends the 10 to Philly for Richardson But gets back the 21 / 34th picks.
- Philly gets Kennard/ 10th pick.
- Detroit gets Oubre.
21- Draft Tyrell Terry or Grant Riller.
34- Paul Reed.
** Sign Milsapp or Bertrans in free agency, Resign Baynes.

OR this:

Phoenix/ Philly/ Houston
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y28btdgy

- Phoenix gets Eric Gordon's 15 million expiring contract, The 21/ 34th picks.
- Philly gets Oubre/10th pick.
- Houston gets Richardson and Zhaire Smith. Or we could just flip Oubre to Houston for Gordon's 15 million expiring.

Phoenix/ Memphis/ Golden state/ Atlanta
*** Don't go by the win loss projections, But by team fit and compliment.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y4kq4eko

- Memphis
takes on Wiggins ( * An upgrade for them offensively) But gets the GS top 5 pick! They also get the 10th pick from Phoenix for Dillon Brooks.

- Golden state
gets Super strong! And goes for another title by adding both Oubre and Valuncias. Now they have a scary lineup of - Curry/ Thompson/ Oubre/ Green/ Valuncias. They should now compete for a top seed again!

- Atlanta gets a superb defensive compliment at the 2/3 between both Trae and Huerter. They want to contend rather than add more rookies, So they give up their 4th pick for Winslow. And a future top 6 lottery protected first from Phoenix !

- Phoenix gives up Oubre and takes back the salary of Dedmon to get the deal done, But gets back the 4th pick from Atlanta. And gets the Minnesota 2021 top 3 protected first.
*** Phoenix now can draft one of Hayes/ Haliburton/ Okungwu/ Toppin/ Vassell, etc. OR They can look to trade the 4th pick to Detroit for Kennard/ and Wood ( arranged sign n' trade). Or maybe to Boston for Marcus Smart and the 17th / 30th picks?

17- Draft Aaron Nesmith or Saddiq Bey?
30- Draft Precious Achiuwa or Paul Reed?

Or maybe to Chicago for Markannen and the 7th pick. (* We can take back Young to get the deal done). Then at 7 draft Vassell! And later buy a late first for Riller or Malachi Flynn?

Or maybe we look to trade it for Aaron Gordon and the 16th pick? Then at 16, take Lewis or Grant Riller? So many choices?

[Qwigglez]

Why is everyone so hell-bent on trading Kelly Oubre? I get that Bridges has been playing well, he's the glue to our starting unit. I get that Cam has played well in Orlando too. But we can actually keep Oubre instead of trading him for 10 cents on the dollar. How about we not trading a 24 year old who is barely starting to blossom. How about we keep this nucleus of Booker/Ayton/Bridges/Oubre/Cam? It would be nice to have a group of guys all within the same age range who could potentially grow together. We have that option.

Would be great to have multiple options to guard players like Lebron, or even the two-headed dragon of Kawhi/Paul George. Guys that make those guys have to play both sides of the ball.

[Fo-Real]

So nobody is worried about where the hell kerrsed is? I did not see that anyone had made contact!!!

[Frank Lee]

I dont see any advantage of Oubre not playing. He will have to play next yr too, with the same risk. It seems clear he and his agent chose to get a couple good paycheck years in while controlling his UFA status in yr 3. That 2 yr deal did us no favors and I think hinders his trade value as teams do not have the ability to retain him. Hes going to cost the same amount, so why trade for a potential walker when you will be at square one come signing day (2021) anyway. Am I ballpark right ?

Also.....Shank is playing his way to China. Dude is on the verge of losing 5Mill. Then again, he just made about 3 million too much.

A team over the cap may want his bird rights. In that case we'd most likely have to take back salary but that would be the primary reason someone would trade for him....and/or if the agent/team have kind of ballparked a next contract figure.

So we have his Birds? That’s good. I can’t seem to grasp the CBA rules and there are few sites that spell it out. I need pictures!

So, if we keep him, he might be the most realistic semi big ticket to sign... but can we sign and trade?

For this season, hard to imagine a deal where we come out on top with certainty. We know what we have with the Oob.

Bird in the hand here for me, same for Baynes and Saric.

[Scutt]

Why is everyone so hell-bent on trading Kelly Oubre? I get that Bridges has been playing well, he's the glue to our starting unit. I get that Cam has played well in Orlando too. But we can actually keep Oubre instead of trading him for 10 cents on the dollar. How about we not trading a 24 year old who is barely starting to blossom. How about we keep this nucleus of Booker/Ayton/Bridges/Oubre/Cam? It would be nice to have a group of guys all within the same age range who could potentially grow together. We have that option.

Would be great to have multiple options to guard players like Lebron, or even the two-headed dragon of Kawhi/Paul George. Guys that make those guys have to play both sides of the ball.

Kelly Oubre is the exact opposite of the TJ Warren/ Mikal Bridges type players. While those guys are team players, humble, high IQ, and dedicated to their craft, Oubre is low IQ chucker, who can't play within an offense, thinks he better than he is, and seems more interested in non basketball stuff like his crappy fashion business.

The Suns already have one selfish guy who hijacks the offense in Booker, they can't afford to have Oubre in the starting lineup doing the same. Kelly thinks he is the 2nd option and I really don't want to see Aytons and the teams development hindered because the Suns want to give Kelly Oubre the undeserved star treatment like they did Booker.

I hate Kelly Oubre as a player and everyday I pray that some other team with foolishly overpay for him, but I know who that foolish team will be. And when Booker pouts his way out, I'm totally fine with sliding Bridges to the 2.

[Saberestar]

So nobody is worried about where the hell kerrsed is? I did not see that anyone had made contact!!!

He hasn't tweeted since 25th June. Yeah, it's strange...but hopefully he is OK.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Why is everyone so hell-bent on trading Kelly Oubre? I get that Bridges has been playing well, he's the glue to our starting unit. I get that Cam has played well in Orlando too. But we can actually keep Oubre instead of trading him for 10 cents on the dollar. How about we not trading a 24 year old who is barely starting to blossom. How about we keep this nucleus of Booker/Ayton/Bridges/Oubre/Cam? It would be nice to have a group of guys all within the same age range who could potentially grow together. We have that option.

Would be great to have multiple options to guard players like Lebron, or even the two-headed dragon of Kawhi/Paul George. Guys that make those guys have to play both sides of the ball.

Kelly Oubre is the exact opposite of the TJ Warren/ Mikal Bridges type players. While those guys are team players, humble, high IQ, and dedicated to their craft, Oubre is low IQ chucker, who can't play within an offense, thinks he better than he is, and seems more interested in non basketball stuff like his crappy fashion business.

The Suns already have one selfish guy who hijacks the offense in Booker, they can't afford to have Oubre in the starting lineup doing the same. Kelly thinks he is the 2nd option and I really don't want to see Aytons and the teams development hindered because the Suns want to give Kelly Oubre the undeserved star treatment like they did Booker.

I hate Kelly Oubre as a player and everyday I pray that some other team with foolishly overpay for him, but I know who that foolish team will be. And when Booker pouts his way out, I'm totally fine with sliding Bridges to the 2.

This take is BS. People made similar complaints about TJ not being a team player while he was here. Kelly is obviously dedicated to his craft and to helping his team. He plays with passion and energy.

I don't think Kelly has a place in this rotation anymore, but it has nothing to do with his failures as a player and everything to do with there not being enough minutes available for everyone in the front court. Happy to trade him for value. But the idea that he's this terrible player is totally off. Point to advanced stats all you want, but recognize that TJ's weren't any better while he was here. Kelly can be a key player for a playoff team, which is the reason he's going to get paid next summer.

[Weemsickew14]

Those saying Oubre is the reason our culture has changed and that is why we can't trade him are totally missing the point in my opinion as Monty, James Jones, and many other players have also greatly contributed to the change of culture. Last summer he definitely wanted more money than he got therefore he signed the 2 year deal to be a FA in 2021 where everyone has money (smart move, yes), but don't be surprised when Oubre either bolts to the highest bidder or demands 20 mil a year when we already have Cam/Mikal who are arguably better. I would love Kelly as a 6th man on this team I think that is his ideal role, but i do not see him accepting that. Not sure how you guys are feeling but I think Oubre is in Orlando to collect checks and will only play if he is desperately needed or we actually make the 8 seed as he has his next contract on his mind (which is fair, but he is not nearly as important to this team as it is made out to be).

[bigfoot]

Why the hell are we trying to trade for frikin Kennard?

Seriously, I don’t get it either. Steve Novak was a great 3pt shooter too iirc and I don’t remember anyone saying we should give up a lottery pick for him.

Kennard has just 1 yr left on his deal too.

To be clear the original trade suggestion was not just Kennard. It was for Kennard and Rose with the idea that we shore up our backcourt where we seem to be the weakest. Either of Rubio or Booker out for any period of time and we are hosed. We would not have to watch Okobo or Jerome or Carter flail trying to run the offense.

[Frank Lee]

We keep Oubre, Bridges needs to get all the non book SG mins.


I’d say Book, Rubes, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton, Oubre will burn about 180-185 minutes. Toss in Baynes and Saric And we are left with 18-20... the bulk of which is likely at PG. All stay healthy and we never see the scrubbers till blowouts

Good problem to have. But does it win games?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Why the hell are we trying to trade for frikin Kennard?

Seriously, I don’t get it either. Steve Novak was a great 3pt shooter too iirc and I don’t remember anyone saying we should give up a lottery pick for him.

Kennard has just 1 yr left on his deal too.

To be clear the original trade suggestion was not just Kennard. It was for Kennard and Rose with the idea that we shore up our backcourt where we seem to be the weakest. Either of Rubio or Booker out for any period of time and we are hosed. We would not have to watch Okobo or Jerome or Carter flail trying to run the offense.

To be fair, Carter's been playing exclusively at the 2 for us for quite some time. Given how well he's played for us, I'm totally fine bringing him back.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Those saying Oubre is the reason our culture has changed and that is why we can't trade him are totally missing the point in my opinion as Monty, James Jones, and many other players have also greatly contributed to the change of culture. Last summer he definitely wanted more money than he got therefore he signed the 2 year deal to be a FA in 2021 where everyone has money (smart move, yes), but don't be surprised when Oubre either bolts to the highest bidder or demands 20 mil a year when we already have Cam/Mikal who are arguably better. I would love Kelly as a 6th man on this team I think that is his ideal role, but i do not see him accepting that. Not sure how you guys are feeling but I think Oubre is in Orlando to collect checks and will only play if he is desperately needed or we actually make the 8 seed as he has his next contract on his mind (which is fair, but he is not nearly as important to this team as it is made out to be).

This is a really great point!

And exactly my reasoning for any potential Oubre trade discussions. It's not that I wouldn't prefer to keep him ( as I'm sure that we all would). Kellyl has been absolutely great! And a really dynamic influence on our team in many ways. However, As Week and a few others have pointed out, Oubre is really looking at his FIRST BIG CONTRACT in 2021. And to be honest, We can't really know whether or not it was in fact Oubre AND his new agents' preference to have him become a free agent in 2021, So they could both collect a big payday.

Then you need to consider his first real injury recently too, So now his getting the biggest contract possible becomes exponentially important to him as an athlete, As he'll be seeking monetary insurance and security against any potential future reinjuries that might potentially derail his career? Perhaps Oubre didn't initially get as big of an offer from us as he anticipated, And that caused friction between our front office and him, And the end result would be him feeling disrespected and opting to take his chances in 2021? Again with both he and his new agent anticipating a much bigger offer from other teams in free agency. So currently, He's just going through the motions, As to not tank his value. Now this is of course all just speculation, Until it actually happens. I strongly believe, As some have already mentioned, That Jones and the front office have likely discussed potential extension amounts/ expectations between the two parties, And are indeed far apart from where a point of agreement. And I do think that both parties are just being professional and courteous, in order to maintain optimal asset value whilst searching for an amicable trade option prior to his free agency, Otherwise, He's told them he won't be resigning. I mean just look closely at his interactions with the team recently? Has he given any indication or proclamations of his intent to remain here? Has he recently promoted the " Valley Boys" concept? Does it seem like he is openly trying to strengthen/ cement his attachment to the team? Or more like a really good player and genuinely nice guy going through the motions, Biding his time and maintaining his marketable image?

Lastly, I think it's a pretty good indicator of how the situation is beneath the surface that they're promoting/ pushing both Bridges/ Cams' development so ardently during the Orlando games. I also think that ultimately, Sarver has a set ( cheap) amount that he ( as a banker) won't go past or commit to Oubre. And I think that may be the primary source of any potential contractual rift.

[Frank Lee]

Rubio 32 Book 16
Book 16 Bridges 32
Oubre 32 Cam 16
Cam 16 Saric 32
Ayton 32 Baynes 16

This is what DAntoni would do. Play your best players... period ... just say no to scrubs except when the game is bagged

[Frank Lee]

I wouldn’t worry about Ouber till you have to
He’ll either be worth 20 mill or not

My question earlier was can we sign and trade him... my limited research says yes. If so, an argument can be made to keep him this yr. We should not fear a chunky deal... the market will dictate and we still could gain assets even if he walks.... if my CBA assumption is correct

[Qwigglez]

Where did Oubre say he was the 2nd option? To me, it seems he pushed towards taking shots since other players shy away. He's aggressive and passionate. He didn't seem to mind coming off the bench when he was with the Wizards. You don't build an offense and tell the players to adapt to it, you tailor make your offense around your players skill set. In that last game against the Mavs when Book fouled out, I had a hard time seeing anyone want to step up and take over. I didn't see Ayton demand the ball, I didn't see Bridges demand the ball, I didn't see Cam Johnson demand the ball. Oubre is the kind of player that we need who isn't scared of the big moment.

GoK, all you have to do is take a look at KO's Instagram to see that it's littered with him wearing Suns gear. In his bio he literally has @Suns. Take a look at Booker's and you won't see anything Suns related. You are grasping at straws and trying to create an agenda when nothing is there.
There is no rift with Oubre and the front office. He wanted a bigger contract, but given the small sample size we weren't willing to offer him more money at the time. The 2 year deal reflects that. Essentially, we wanted him to prove he was capable of being a consistent player and his initial spurt with the Suns wasn't just a fluke.
You continue to say you'd love to keep Oubre around, but none of your posts ever reflect that.

We've been in this perpetual cycle of getting one decent player here and there, eventually trading them, and then starting over. Now all of a sudden, we have a group of guys all within the same age bracket, all who could grow and mold together, and you guys want to trade them away to get younger when the Suns already have one of the youngest teams in the league. This group of guys we have (Booker/Bridges/Ayton/Oubre/Cam) can be really special IMO. I just feel we are going to deeply regret trading any of them away.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Rubio 32 Book 16
Book 16 Bridges 32
Oubre 32 Cam 16
Cam 16 Saric 32
Ayton 32 Baynes 16

This is what DAntoni would do. Play your best players... period ... just say no to scrubs except when the game is bagged

Except Booker ain't Harden, Westbrook or Nash. He doesn't push the pace (he's actually really, really bad in that regard), and he's not comfortable creating offense from behind the arc like Harden. So I think that second unit would just be way too slow for D'Antoni's taste. Book might get closer to Harden's level of offensive mastery in time, but short of that, we desperately need another ballhandler-creator next to Book, which upsets your whole approach. I'm also not particularly comfortable with forcing him or Bridges to guard opposing PGs.

Also... bringing Bridges off the bench. That's a HUGE no-no. I've gone into some detail about why this is before, but TL;DR, great defensive players need to start so they can guard the other team's best player. Start Bridges at the 3 - as we should - and this rotation again falls apart for lack of a backup 2. Also, for all of Mikal's growth as a player, I still don't think he's demonstrated sufficient guard skills to merit real time at the 2, and certainly not next to Booker. Not enough penetration/shot creation between the two of them at the guard spots.

All of which is why I've recently gotten on board with the idea of moving Oubre to shore up one or both backup guard spots.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Where did Oubre say he was the 2nd option? To me, it seems he pushed towards taking shots since other players shy away. He's aggressive and passionate. He didn't seem to mind coming off the bench when he was with the Wizards. You don't build an offense and tell the players to adapt to it, you tailor make your offense around your players skill set. In that last game against the Mavs when Book fouled out, I had a hard time seeing anyone want to step up and take over. I didn't see Ayton demand the ball, I didn't see Bridges demand the ball, I didn't see Cam Johnson demand the ball. Oubre is the kind of player that we need who isn't scared of the big moment.

GoK, all you have to do is take a look at KO's Instagram to see that it's littered with him wearing Suns gear. In his bio he literally has @Suns. Take a look at Booker's and you won't see anything Suns related. You are grasping at straws and trying to create an agenda when nothing is there.
There is no rift with Oubre and the front office. He wanted a bigger contract, but given the small sample size we weren't willing to offer him more money at the time. The 2 year deal reflects that. Essentially, we wanted him to prove he was capable of being a consistent player and his initial spurt with the Suns wasn't just a fluke.
You continue to say you'd love to keep Oubre around, but none of your posts ever reflect that.

We've been in this perpetual cycle of getting one decent player here and there, eventually trading them, and then starting over. Now all of a sudden, we have a group of guys all within the same age bracket, all who could grow and mold together, and you guys want to trade them away to get younger when the Suns already have one of the youngest teams in the league. This group of guys we have (Booker/Bridges/Ayton/Oubre/Cam) can be really special IMO. I just feel we are going to deeply regret trading any of them away.

Agree with the spirit of this post, but I just don't think it's realistic or particularly desirable to pay Kelly what he'll command. And I certainly don't think he's a great fit for our rotation, essentially for the reasons laid out in my previous post.

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

Where did Oubre say he was the 2nd option? To me, it seems he pushed towards taking shots since other players shy away. He's aggressive and passionate. He didn't seem to mind coming off the bench when he was with the Wizards. You don't build an offense and tell the players to adapt to it, you tailor make your offense around your players skill set. In that last game against the Mavs when Book fouled out, I had a hard time seeing anyone want to step up and take over. I didn't see Ayton demand the ball, I didn't see Bridges demand the ball, I didn't see Cam Johnson demand the ball. Oubre is the kind of player that we need who isn't scared of the big moment.

GoK, all you have to do is take a look at KO's Instagram to see that it's littered with him wearing Suns gear. In his bio he literally has @Suns. Take a look at Booker's and you won't see anything Suns related. You are grasping at straws and trying to create an agenda when nothing is there.
There is no rift with Oubre and the front office. He wanted a bigger contract, but given the small sample size we weren't willing to offer him more money at the time. The 2 year deal reflects that. Essentially, we wanted him to prove he was capable of being a consistent player and his initial spurt with the Suns wasn't just a fluke.
You continue to say you'd love to keep Oubre around, but none of your posts ever reflect that.

We've been in this perpetual cycle of getting one decent player here and there, eventually trading them, and then starting over. Now all of a sudden, we have a group of guys all within the same age bracket, all who could grow and mold together, and you guys want to trade them away to get younger when the Suns already have one of the youngest teams in the league. This group of guys we have (Booker/Bridges/Ayton/Oubre/Cam) can be really special IMO. I just feel we are going to deeply regret trading any of them away.

Agree with the spirit of this post, but I just don't think it's realistic or particularly desirable to pay Kelly what he'll command. And I certainly don't think he's a great fit for our rotation, essentially for the reasons laid out in my previous post.

Knowing Sarver he'll likely skimp on keeping Oubre. I don't agree that he not a good fit for our rotation. I think he's the perfect hybrid of a tween forward that can play either 3 or 4. I think he is the ideal player along with Bridges next to Booker/Ayton.
Our best 3 man lineups for this past season are:
Rubio/Booker/Bridges
Rubio/Bridges/Oubre
Oubre/Bridges/Ayton
Booker/Bridges/Oubre
Ayton/Booker/Oubre


It just makes sense to keep Oubre. Even our best 4 man lineups always include him. The help we need is to our bench unit, and we should do that by trading our draft pick for an established player, or by signing someone in free agency. I think a lot of Suns fans are just happy that our new toy (Cam Johnson) is playing well. And I am too. But I'm not going to sit here and think we'd be a better team if Oubre played somewhere else. We'd just be that much better.

[NapoleonII]

Yes to the DA line-up of 8 guys deep, especially because these next 6 games are our playoffs, but I say throw Payne in the mix too, he's earned a spot.

The name of the game in today's league is flexibility and switching + shooting. Bridges can hold down the 3 spot, back-up 2 and back-up 4 in spurts. Cam Johnson can play the 4 because the power forward position has changed; there's no Duncan or Elton Brand dropping 25 ppg on the low block anymore.

Keep ALL the wing talent we can, for as long as we can. Booker and Ayton are whiny af and we need established talent/defense/shooting. Oubre/Bridges/Cam Johnson provide all of those collectively.

If Oubre is ready and can shake off the rust, play him. He brings intangibles we need. He gets to the line, he provides energy, spacing, fights for rebounds and deflections. Rubio/Booker/Payne will keep the ball out of his hands enough. Keep Oubre here and make him play out his value here. We'll sign him or we won't.