2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Who knows how much these guys will make halfway through their rookie contracts? Ayton is probably near top 5 in the rookie class right now. After last year RAPTOR projected his 5 year value to be $135, or about $27 million a year.

I have no idea what he will make. I wouldn't guess right now either because I have no idea what he will look like after another 140-145 games. He's only played in about 110 so far...and will probably make more improvements in his next 145 than he has in his first 110, and he's made vast improvements already.

$27 million seems kind of like a lot, but it probably won't be that much in 2 years...it's also what Steven Adams makes this year. The guys who make more than that are Embiid, Jokic, Towns, Drummond and Gobert. Vucevic is at $26. So right now his value should probably be less than that. There are not really any other bigger name Cs out there though...a guy like Myles Turner, who isn't nearly as good, who averaged 13 and 7 in his 4th year, makes $18 million a year.

We can’t wait 145 more games from Ayton to decide on how much to pay him though. He’s up for a contract extension 5 months from now. Seeing as how he’s someone who didn’t wait a year to get paid by the league and instead illegally accepted $$ in college, I don’t think he’s someone that will wait a year for his extension. He will want an offer this summer and my guess is the Suns will have one on the table for him if he’s still on the roster then. Whether he accepts or not is up in the air but I highly doubt he’s earned a max extension offer based on the games and maturity (suspension) he’s shown thus far in his career. Looking around at the roster makeup of other teams, there’s not any other teams that will be competing for Ayton’s services by making him a max offer in RFA either and I think his agent may be well aware of it. Probably in Ayton’s best interest to re-sign for whatever contract is offered by James Jones.

Don’t know if Ayton is the type of player to have the drive to improve after signing his 2nd deal either. He’s already said that his only goal in the NBA is to be good enough to somehow secure a 2nd contract in the NBA.

We can wait. It's not like he can go elsewhere, but we may be able to get him for cheaper on an extension. If he is demanding a max, we an wait it out. We can always match anything.

Ayton is so laid back he's they type I think would not hold grudges and would want to stay with the Suns and comfort anyway.

Same goes for Bridges.

I'd still offer an extension around 5/110 and work from there and maybe go to 5/125.

Oh, also, he never accepted money in college. That ended up being a bogus report. Someone (Mark Schlabach) believed a rumored FBI wiretap had incriminating info...some other asst coach who paid off others was indicted tried to make a deal and throw that against the wall...it ended out this didn't exist and there was no payoff. It was just some guy making something up.

There were no wiretaps, no money trail, nothing, or they would have indicted Sean Miller. They got all the big names that summer...Pitino among others..even the Duke coach I believe, but nothing against Sean Miller or anything on Ayton.

Sure the suns can wait to extend both. Should be noted that since Ayton was the 1st pick and has a high salary is cap hold as a RFA will actually be pretty high.

I'm generally in the camp that if you like a guy and can get an extension done you should do it. Messing around can cause a rift that can bite you down the line. Plus you can get a contract with terms you like vs them getting a RFA offer sheet with a player option.

With that said as of today I don't think either Bridges or Ayton fall in the no brainier max category so if they don't agree to a favorable deal then you can let the market set itself a year later. Best case is you lock them up after year 3 to a realtivly team friendly deal and they keep getting better and the contract looks like a bargain.

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WeekapaugGroove · Post #189 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 6:44 pm

Read on Twitter

Cam Johnson leads all 2nd year players in TPA, just like everyone expected when he was drafted

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NTB · Post #190 » by **NTB** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 7:00 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:

Read on Twitter

Cam Johnson leads all 2nd year players in TPA, just like everyone expected when he was drafted

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Read on Twitter

Post #191 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 9:13 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:We can’t wait 145 more games from Ayton to decide on how much to pay him though. He’s up for a contract extension 5 months from now. Seeing as how he’s someone who didn’t wait a year to get paid by the league and instead illegally accepted $$ in college, I don’t think he’s someone that will wait a year for his extension. He will want an offer this summer and my guess is the Suns will have one on the table for him if he’s still on the roster then. Whether he accepts or not is up in the air but I highly doubt he’s earned a max extension offer based on the games and maturity (suspension) he’s shown thus far in his career. Looking around at the roster makeup of other teams, there’s not any other teams that will be competing for Ayton’s services by making him a max offer in RFA either and I think his agent may be well aware of it. Probably in Ayton’s best interest to re-sign for whatever contract is offered by James Jones.

Don’t know if Ayton is the type of player to have the drive to improve after signing his 2nd deal either. He’s already said that his only goal in the NBA is to be good enough to somehow secure a 2nd contract in the NBA.

We can wait. It's not like he can go elsewhere, but we may be able to get him for cheaper on an extension. If he is demanding a max, we an wait it out. We can always match anything.

Ayton is so laid back he's they type I think would not hold grudges and would want to stay with the Suns and comfort anyway.

Same goes for Bridges.

I'd still offer an extension around 5/110 and work from there and maybe go to 5/125.

Oh, also, he never accepted money in college. That ended up being a bogus report. Someone (Mark Schlabach) believed a rumored FBI wiretap had incriminating info...some other asst coach who paid off others was indicted tried to make a deal and throw that against the wall...it ended out this didn't exist and there was no payoff. It was just some guy making something up.

There were no wiretaps, no money trail, nothing, or they would have indicted Sean Miller. They got all the big names that summer...Pitino among others..even the Duke coach I believe, but nothing against Sean Miller or anything on Ayton.
Sure the suns can wait to extend both. Should be noted that since Ayton was the 1st pick and has a high salary is cap hold as a RFA will actually be pretty high.

I'm generally in the camp that if you like a guy and can get an extension done you should do it. Messing around can cause a rift that can bite you down the line. Plus you can get a contract with terms you like vs them getting a RFA offer sheet with a player option.

With that said as of today I don't think either Bridges or Ayton fall in the no brainier max category so if they don't agree to a favorable deal then you can let the market set itself a year later. Best case is you lock them up after year 3 to a reak ltivly team friendly deal and they keep getting better and the contract looks like a bargain.

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Plenty of guys have waited until the summer when they are a RFA where it didn't cause a rift. Not sure who all it may have with, Kawhi? But I'd do an extension if you can get a good deal.

It does obviously provide the player with security. I especially like the idea of adding incentives in an extension. I think it's more likely you get those in when you do an extension. While I think both players have high aspirations to keep improving and Bridges will always have that mentality, I think Ayton is also that way despite many others feeling differently possibly because of his goofy personality and/or lapses at times.

But I think he legit wants to make an All NBA defensive team and maybe compete for DPOY. His defense is just getting better and better.

The cap holds are the biggest issue, and you risk not being able to sign a legit PG that next offseason without their rookie cap holds....could be Rubio, but if Paul is still healthy and wants to sign, it would be nice to get him on a nice deal..which he may take after getting a $160 million contract...and we could go over the cap with him to re-sign I believe. If needed could trade guys like Crowder, Saric and Carter to prevent hitting the tax, particularly if Jalen Smith gets better. At that point Saric might be the most important to keep, but playing small with Ayton and having Cam or Brides out PF, allows us to primarily use Smith at backup C.But we won't need to re-sign him either until those other guys I just mentioned are off the books.

Post #192 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 9:22 pm

King4Day wrote:For the poll I picked desktop. I want to use the mobile app so bad but it's so far behind in ease of use and features.

I know it's not a basketball poll, but was interested. I would bet some of the other boards, more particularly one like the GB would lean heavily toward phones.

In a previous poll, I remember our crowd here really skews older with the vast majority under 30, and many over 50, which gives us so much more experienc as fans as opposed to other fan bases, and a crowd that as stuck to the team through thick and thin...but as one long time poster who I felt kind of despised me, he told me in a PM, he thinks of us more like arguing in a bar amongst a group of Suns fans who have been meeting for long time to discuss the team...and we will have those heated arguments, but will still be that group that comes back to the bar for more.

But am pretty surprised to see desktops, but I guess when at work, that's what I use, but use laptops at home. Phones are a pain for me, but I am generally not a phone guy for much...except, you know, phone calls and music.

Post #193 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 9:25 pm

NTB wrote:

Read on Twitter
/photo/1

I had to post this to the GB to see the reactions..in a thread about 3rd year players. Hawks fans will like it too since they often get attacked by Doncic fans.

I think we should all refrain on responding until we see a page or two of comments and maybe the thread begins to drop down the page...and try not to be overly biased...even though I flat out said in the OP that I am.

NTB · Post #194 » by **NTB** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 9:49 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
NTB wrote:

Read on Twitter
/photo/1

I had to post this to the GB to see the reactions..in a thread about 3rd year players. Hawks fans will like it too since they often get attacked by Doncic fans.

I think we should all refrain on responding until we see a page or two of comments and maybe the thread begins to drop down the page...and try not to be overly biased...even though I flat out said in the OP that I am.

I couldn't find your post in GB.

Post #195 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 9:54 pm

NTB wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
NTB wrote:

Read on Twitter
/photo/1

I had to post this to the GB to see the reactions..in a thread about 3rd year players. Hawks fans will like it too since they often get attacked by Doncic fans.

I think we should all refrain on responding until we see a page or two of comments and maybe the thread begins to drop down the page...and try not to be overly biased...even though I flat out said in the OP that I am.

I couldn't find your post in GB.

Just look for threads starting with posters in green. It starts with 3rd year players"

Looking at it though, it was posted 35 minutes ago, which would have dropped it almost to the bottom of the board, with so many threads with posts since then.

But a Hawks fan just posted to it a few minutes ago...not sure why he mentioned Collins and Hunter though. I will respond to him in a while if it needs to be bumped.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #196 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 10:45 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
We can wait. It's not like he can go elsewhere, but we may be able to get him for cheaper on an extension. If he is demanding a max, we an wait it out. We can always match anything.

Ayton is so laid back he's they type I think would not hold grudges and would want to stay with the Suns and comfort anyway.

Same goes for Bridges.

I'd still offer an extension around 5/110 and work from there and maybe go to 5/125.

Oh, also, he never accepted money in college. That ended up being a bogus report. Someone (Mark Schlabach) believed a rumored FBI wiretap had incriminating info...some other asst coach who paid off others was indicted tried to make a deal and throw that against the wall...it ended out this didn't exist and there was no payoff. It was just some guy making something up.

There were no wiretaps, no money trail, nothing, or they would have indicted Sean Miller. They got all the big names that summer...Pitino among others..even the Duke coach I believe, but nothing against Sean Miller or anything on Ayton.
Sure the suns can wait to extend both. Should be noted that since Ayton was the 1st pick and has a high salary is cap hold as a RFA will actually be pretty high.

I'm generally in the camp that if you like a guy and can get an extension done you should do it. Messing around can cause a rift that can bite you down the line. Plus you can get a contract with terms you like vs them getting a RFA offer sheet with a player option.

With that said as of today I don't think either Bridges or Ayton fall in the no brainier max category so if they don't agree to a favorable deal then you can let the market set itself a year later. Best case is you lock them up after year 3 to a reak ltivly team friendly deal and they keep getting better and the contract looks like a bargain.

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Plenty of guys have waited until the summer when they are a RFA where it didn't cause a rift. Not sure who all it may have with, Kawhi? But I'd do an extension if you can get a good deal.

It does obviously provide the player with security. I especially like the idea of adding incentives in an extension. I think it's more likely you get those in when you do an extension. While I think both players have high aspirations to keep improving and Bridges will always have that mentality, I think Ayton is also that way despite many others feeling differently possibly because of his goofy personality and/or lapses at times.

But I think he legit wants to make an All NBA defensive team and maybe compete for DPOY. His defense is just getting better and better.

The cap holds are the biggest issue, and you risk not being able to sign a legit PG that next offseason without their rookie cap holds....could be Rubio, but if Paul is still healthy and wants to sign, it would be nice to get him on a nice deal..which he may take after getting a $160 million contract...and we could go over the cap with him to re-sign I believe. If needed could trade guys like Crowder, Saric and Carter to prevent hitting the tax, particularly if Jalen Smith gets better. At that point Saric might be the most important to keep, but playing small with Ayton and having Cam or Brides out PF, allows us to primarily use Smith at backup C.But we won't need to re-sign him either until those other guys I just mentioned are off the books.

Utah made Gordon Hayward go get a RFA offer and instead having locked into a 5 year deal he opted out after 3 and bolted to the Celtics (and then ultimately went to Charlotte the team he originally signed that offer sheet with). Eric Gordon was salty NO matched his deal and that relationship was never great afterwards.

It's just not a great idea to let guys you really like go visit other teams as a RFA, seeds get planted. The good teams avoid it, look at this past year Miami got a deal done with Bam even though they were looking for space next summer.

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Revived · Post #197 » by **Revived** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 10:51 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:We can’t wait 145 more games from Ayton to decide on how much to pay him though. He’s up for a contract extension 5 months from now. Seeing as how he’s someone who didn’t wait a year to get paid by the league and instead illegally accepted $$ in college, I don’t think he’s someone that will wait a year for his extension. He will want an offer this summer and my guess is the Suns will have one on the table for him if he’s still on the roster then. Whether he accepts or not is up in the air but I highly doubt he’s earned a max extension offer based on the games and maturity (suspension) he’s shown thus far in his career. Looking around at the roster makeup of other teams, there’s not any other teams that will be competing for Ayton’s services by making him a max offer in RFA either and I think his agent may be well aware of it. Probably in Ayton’s best interest to re-sign for whatever contract is offered by James Jones.

Don’t know if Ayton is the type of player to have the drive to improve after signing his 2nd deal either. He’s already said that his only goal in the NBA is to be good enough to somehow secure a 2nd contract in the NBA.

We can wait. It's not like he can go elsewhere, but we may be able to get him for cheaper on an extension. If he is demanding a max, we an wait it out. We can always match anything.

Ayton is so laid back he's they type I think would not hold grudges and would want to stay with the Suns and comfort anyway.

Same goes for Bridges.

I'd still offer an extension around 5/110 and work from there and maybe go to 5/125.

Oh, also, he never accepted money in college. That ended up being a bogus report. Someone (Mark Schlabach) believed a rumored FBI wiretap had incriminating info...some other asst coach who paid off others was indicted tried to make a deal and throw that against the wall...it ended out this didn't exist and there was no payoff. It was just some guy making something up.

There were no wiretaps, no money trail, nothing, or they would have indicted Sean Miller. They got all the big names that summer...Pitino among others..even the Duke coach I believe, but nothing against Sean Miller or anything on Ayton.
Sure the suns can wait to extend both. Should be noted that since Ayton was the 1st pick and has a high salary is cap hold as a RFA will actually be pretty high.

I'm generally in the camp that if you like a guy and can get an extension done you should do it. Messing around can cause a rift that can bite you down the line. Plus you can get a contract with terms you like vs them getting a RFA offer sheet with a player option.

With that said as of today I don't think either Bridges or Ayton fall in the no brainier max category so if they don't agree to a favorable deal then you can let the market set itself a year later. Best case is you lock them up after year 3 to a realtivly team friendly deal and they keep getting better and the contract looks like a bargain.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I’m okay with giving Bridges the max because it’s obvious that he has the drive to continue to improve as a player. This contract isn’t just about what a player has already done, you’re paying for future performance mostly.

There’s so many players in the NBA that got paid and then stopped giving a ****. NBA executives get paid to identify who those players may be and avoid paying them.

If a player’s NBA goal is to simply get to a 2nd contract then what will that player do after he gets the 2nd contract? Does he still have the drive to improve or is he going to think “Ok well I got paid for doing this much so why bother doing anything more, I can relax and enjoy my millions now”?

This isn’t just an NBA thing btw, it happens all the time in the real workforce as well.

Saberestar · Post #198 » by **Saberestar** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 11:06 pm

Revived wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
We can wait. It's not like he can go elsewhere, but we may be able to get him for cheaper on an extension. If he is demanding a max, we an wait it out. We can always match anything.

Ayton is so laid back he's they type I think would not hold grudges and would want to stay with the Suns and comfort anyway.

Same goes for Bridges.

I'd still offer an extension around 5/110 and work from there and maybe go to 5/125.

Oh, also, he never accepted money in college. That ended up being a bogus report. Someone (Mark Schlabach) believed a rumored FBI wiretap had incriminating info...some other asst coach who paid off others was indicted tried to make a deal and throw that against the wall...it ended out this didn't exist and there was no payoff. It was just some guy making something up.

There were no wiretaps, no money trail, nothing, or they would have indicted Sean Miller. They got all the big names that summer...Pitino among others..even the Duke coach I believe, but nothing against Sean Miller or anything on Ayton.
Sure the suns can wait to extend both. Should be noted that since Ayton was the 1st pick and has a high salary is cap hold as a RFA will actually be pretty high.

I'm generally in the camp that if you like a guy and can get an extension done you should do it. Messing around can cause a rift that can bite you down the line. Plus you can get a contract with terms you like vs them getting a RFA offer sheet with a player option.

With that said as of today I don't think either Bridges or Ayton fall in the no brainier max category so if they don't agree to a favorable deal then you can let the market set itself a year later. Best case is you lock them up after year 3 to a realtivly team friendly deal and they keep getting better and the contract looks like a bargain.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I’m okay with giving Bridges the max because it’s obvious that he has the drive to continue to improve as a player. This contract isn’t just about what a player has already done, you’re paying for future performance mostly.

There’s so many players in the NBA that got paid and then stopped giving a ****. NBA executives get paid to identify who those players may be and avoid paying them.

If a player’s NBA goal is to simply get to a 2nd contract then what will that player do after he gets the 2nd contract? Does he still have the drive to improve or is he going to think “Ok well I got paid for doing this much so why bother doing anything more, I can relax and enjoy my millions now”?

This isn’t just an NBA thing btw, it happens all the time in the real workforce as well.

You would be OK giving $170M/5 years to Bridges next summer?

If that's what he wants then it would be better to wait another year. But I doubt he would ask for that money.

GoodBehavior · Post #199 » by **GoodBehavior** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 11:25 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Revived wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Sure the suns can wait to extend both. Should be noted that since Ayton was the 1st pick and has a high salary is cap hold as a RFA will actually be pretty high.

I'm generally in the camp that if you like a guy and can get an extension done you should do it. Messing around can cause a rift that can bite you down the line. Plus you can get a contract with terms you like vs them getting a RFA offer sheet with a player option.

With that said as of today I don't think either Bridges or Ayton fall in the no brainier max category so if they don't agree to a favorable deal then you can let the market set itself a year later. Best case is you lock them up after year 3 to a realtivly team friendly deal and they keep getting better and the contract looks like a bargain.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I’m okay with giving Bridges the max because it’s obvious that he has the drive to continue to improve as a player. This contract isn’t just about what a player has already done, you’re paying for future performance mostly.

There’s so many players in the NBA that got paid and then stopped giving a ****. NBA executives get paid to identify who those players may be and avoid paying them.

If a player’s NBA goal is to simply get to a 2nd contract then what will that player do after he gets the 2nd contract? Does he still have the drive to improve or is he going to think “Ok well I got paid for doing this much so why bother doing anything more, I can relax and enjoy my millions now”?

This isn’t just an NBA thing btw, it happens all the time in the real workforce as well.

You would be OK giving $170M/5 years to Bridges next summer?

If that's what he wants then it would be better to wait another year. But I doubt he would ask for that money.

Bridges is a fine player, but he's not getting the max. $20M-$25M, hopefully somewhere in the middle. I don't think the market for him is really that big. Teams are looking for versatile wings that can play multiple positions, Bridges hasn't shown he can play as a power forward. Or Teams are look at wings that generate their own offense. Bridges has improved offensively, but not close to being in that category.

He fits perfectly in the Suns scheme that centers around Booker, so I don't see him jumping ship. Now if Booker was to leave, Bridges' value (to the team) does decline. Ideally, you want someone who generate his own offense if Booker was to leave (hypothetically). In any case, I see Bridges in a Suns uniform for years.

Revived · Post #200 » by **Revived** » Tue Jan 5, 2021 11:49 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Revived wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Sure the suns can wait to extend both. Should be noted that since Ayton was the 1st pick and has a high salary is cap hold as a RFA will actually be pretty high.

I'm generally in the camp that if you like a guy and can get an extension done you should do it. Messing around can cause a rift that can bite you down the line. Plus you can get a contract with terms you like vs them getting a RFA offer sheet with a player option.

With that said as of today I don't think either Bridges or Ayton fall in the no brainier max category so if they don't agree to a favorable deal then you can let the market set itself a year later. Best case is you lock them up after year 3 to a realtivly team friendly deal and they keep getting better and the contract looks like a bargain.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

I’m okay with giving Bridges the max because it’s obvious that he has the drive to continue to improve as a player. This contract isn’t just about what a player has already done, you’re paying for future performance mostly.

There’s so many players in the NBA that got paid and then stopped giving a ****. NBA executives get paid to identify who those players may be and avoid paying them.

If a player’s NBA goal is to simply get to a 2nd contract then what will that player do after he gets the 2nd contract? Does he still have the drive to improve or is he going to think “Ok well I got paid for doing this much so why bother doing anything more, I can relax and enjoy my millions now”?

This isn’t just an NBA thing btw, it happens all the time in the real workforce as well.

You would be OK giving $170M/5 years to Bridges next summer?

If that's what he wants then it would be better to wait another year. But I doubt he would ask for that money.

We can’t give him the $170M max because we already have that to Booker unless I’m mistaken.

I didn’t mean the super max.

Bridges has the chance to be the best perimeter defender in all of basketball while being a capable 3pt shooter that can occasionally put the ball on the floor as well. Yeah I’d be okay with paying him whatever he wants.

Will we extend Bridges or will Sarver not pay 4 players big money for 1 or 2 years?