2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part IV

[TeamTragic]

Booker to the Thunder. KD is an enigma.

[BobbieL]

No they should not have. This summer we can do better. Moving KD just to have to pay Jimmy and Kuminga would suck. OKC and HOU will be ripe for picking once they lose in the playoffs.

We seemed unprepared for KD trades this trade deadline so I'm happy we didn't take the first offer available. I just don't think we were thinking about moving KD until teams like GS and Heat started to go hard for him. With a much longer timeframe to consider and strategies a KD trade in the offseason, I agree we should be able to get more, especially when more teams will have the offseason flexibility to facilitate a KD trade.

You guys will think I'm crazy but I think if OKC fails in the playoffs and it's obvious they need another true scorer next to SGA, i feel we can get JDubb from them. Plus some filler (they have good filler players lol)

He needs to get paid and soon a 5 yr max-as opposed to the 3 yrs of KD. Add into there OKC can pkus defensive guys like Wallace, Caruso into his spot who are much cheaper. Durant slides right into their hole at the 4.

I know i bashed Quigz idea of us getting Chet from them, but Chet plays the 5-where they are thin at. JDub plays the wing-where they are stacked at and will be getting Durant.

Long shot, but I can see a world where he's a Sun come Oct.

So we are rooting for Houston and OKC to tank in the play-offs
What about Memphis if they need Durant -- do they have anything useful?
What about a team in the East that might need a scorer - and Durant can score the ball

I have Booker going to Houston or Detroit

[Qwigglez]

You guys will think I'm crazy but I think if OKC fails in the playoffs and it's obvious they need another true scorer next to SGA, i feel we can get JDubb from them. Plus some filler (they have good filler players lol)

He needs to get paid and soon a 5 yr max-as opposed to the 3 yrs of KD. Add into there OKC can pkus defensive guys like Wallace, Caruso into his spot who are much cheaper. Durant slides right into their hole at the 4.

I know i bashed Quigz idea of us getting Chet from them, but Chet plays the 5-where they are thin at. JDub plays the wing-where they are stacked at and will be getting Durant.

Long shot, but I can see a world where he's a Sun come Oct.

I think Chet is more attainable mostly because of his injury history. If he is still brittle by end of the season/post-season I could see OKC moving on from him simply because they have a great window of opportunity to win now with SGA, J-Dub. Next season they'll have Topic as well. They also just got Theis, and I know he's expiring after this season, but I imagine their thought process was they needed some more bigs to battle against the Mavs. If the Mavs knock the Thunder out again, I definitely see a Chet trade becoming more possible.

KD to OKC though I think is very realistic. You know the media and the NBA circle just loves their narratives.. "KD-OKC reunion, can he help bring them their first championship" type of stuff.

[bwgood77]

Suns are too one-dimensional. We bought into this strange narrative that allowed the Suns to make the NBA Finals in 2021 where the Suns turned what the league thought was a poor shot being the midrange, and the Suns exploited it, and made a living shooting those middies. Suns became a lethal midrange shooting team, and instead of improving other facets of the team, they thought to just double down on shooting.

Beal, Booker, and KD do not attack the rim enough. I was actually pleasantly surprised against OKC in the first half when I saw Beal and Booker drive to the rim. Maybe it was just me noticing more, IDK. But the Suns continuously fall in love with jumpers. This is why Jimmy Butler was going to be such a difference maker if the Suns made the trade for him. More than half of his shots are within 10 feet of the basket. Devin Booker this season, takes 27% of his shots within 10 feet. 1 out of every 10 shots for Booker are within 3 feet. Kevin Durant is the same exact thing. He takes 27% of his shots within 10 feet. Beal takes 35% of his shots within 10 feet, 17% are within 3 feet. Compared to last season where Beal was taking 42% of his shots within 10 feet, 23% within 3 feet.
So, what happened? Did their balls drop off? I get Bud's system wants us to take more 3s, but they could probably get more 3s by their role players if the big 3 decided to drive to the basket more and didn't act like dogs with their tails between their legs.

The Suns need to drive more, stop taking the middies. 3s or layups/dunks.

Beal was taking it to the rim a lot earlier in the year and was finishing at a very high rate. More lately it seems he's only done it along the baseline to try and dunk it and often gets fouled. But he used to drive in for the lay in often. I know he missed a couple but still had the highest finishing rate at the rim of all our non bigs (and now that I think of it, better than our bigs too).

[BobbieL]

So the Suns have made three trades

Traded a very valuable 2031 for three FRPs

Traded Okogie for Richards - good trade

Traded Nurk for two players who they can release but it cost a FRP
---but saves Ishbia a bunch of money (who cares) but gets them below the second apron this summer - thats a big deal

But until the Suns truly move forward with a rebuild - and that starts with "35+1" - this will be the moves. Fringe moves aroiund the cap. Nothing that moves the damn needle!

I'm fine with all trades.

Nurk's situation seems untenable at this point, the public beefing with the head coach was probably the final straw. As much as it would make sense asset/value wise to hold him for another year until next trade deadline, it just wasn't worth having him and his vibes around.

We give up a FRP which was always going to be the likely cost, but we unlock more flexibility this offseason by waiving both Martin and Micic and getting under the 2nd apron. I believe we'll have access to the tax payer MLE, we can take back up to 110% in salary in trades as opposed to 100% only, we can use cash considerations (good for Ish) and probably importantly, we can package players now in trades

I was actually fine with the two Charlotte trades. The first trade - trading for three picks - makes more sense if they blow it up this summer.

Todays Charlotte trade - I get it costs a FRP - but like you said, what it brings to the team is huge. The ability to combine players, the MLE, taking back salary - all are important. And its why the Butler trade made no sense as none of those things would be available

[Slim Charless]

Read on Twitter

They will need to trade him for whatever the best offer is or he is likely to leave in FA the next summer and we get nothing.

Unless we sign him to a big extension as they talked about. His value will only decline quickliy after this summer. Turns 37 in July. Will be a FA next summer. I think we will be lucky to get 2 1sts for him. I'd be happy with 2 firsts, a prospect and filler or 1 first and a really good prospect, filler (hopefully filler being people who can contribute).

If we extend him for 2 years this summer, we could maybe trade him at the deadline, but they should just trade him. I wonder what the best offer they got for him today was.

I imagine his value here isn't as high as people think. Hopefully he is not injured the rest of the year or his value will really start to decline...being a guy that ended the season injured and will be 37 in Sept.

Yeah it's not just guys here. You yourself have posted and read the tweets from legit NBA reporters who have said that we wanted a ton for him. We had Jimmy, Kuminga and a apparently a ton of picks lined up from our division rival.

But I get it. You guys all think our players are worthless and you'd give them away. Same crew that thinks Booker should be traded for (some) of our picks back from Houston and filler. Maybe. If we're lucky.

[lilfishi22]

Suns are too one-dimensional. We bought into this strange narrative that allowed the Suns to make the NBA Finals in 2021 where the Suns turned what the league thought was a poor shot being the midrange, and the Suns exploited it, and made a living shooting those middies. Suns became a lethal midrange shooting team, and instead of improving other facets of the team, they thought to just double down on shooting.

Beal, Booker, and KD do not attack the rim enough. I was actually pleasantly surprised against OKC in the first half when I saw Beal and Booker drive to the rim. Maybe it was just me noticing more, IDK. But the Suns continuously fall in love with jumpers. This is why Jimmy Butler was going to be such a difference maker if the Suns made the trade for him. More than half of his shots are within 10 feet of the basket. Devin Booker this season, takes 27% of his shots within 10 feet. 1 out of every 10 shots for Booker are within 3 feet. Kevin Durant is the same exact thing. He takes 27% of his shots within 10 feet. Beal takes 35% of his shots within 10 feet, 17% are within 3 feet. Compared to last season where Beal was taking 42% of his shots within 10 feet, 23% within 3 feet.
So, what happened? Did their balls drop off? I get Bud's system wants us to take more 3s, but they could probably get more 3s by their role players if the big 3 decided to drive to the basket more and didn't act like dogs with their tails between their legs.

The Suns need to drive more, stop taking the middies. 3s or layups/dunks.

We shoot a crap load more 3's now, we rank 1st in FTA per FG and 5th in FT rate.

The issue is that we're fundamentally a team that isn't much else other than efficient scoring team. We're not big, we don't play fast, we can't defend, we can't rebound we're not very athletic, we don't really play an inspired brand of basketball, we don't have a consistent, stable offense, we don't take care of the ball well and not only do we not get many 2nd chance opportunity or extra possessions, we give up a lot of 2nd chance opportunities and extra possessions. We're 2nd last in the league in FGA's and this season, opponents have taken 240 more FGA than us. Doesn't matter how good we are at shooting the ball, getting to the line or how optimised our shot profile looks like if we don't get enough shot ups while giving the other teams on average 5 more attempts at the basket.

We don't really have anything that is extraordinary other than the individual talent of KD and Book. It's just not enough.

[bwgood77]

An "unbothered" KD dictating the direction of this franchise is quite infuriating.

I wouldve been very happy with a return of JVal, Butler(even with the extension), Kuminga and picks for KD and Nurk. It wouldve given us a chance this season.

This deadline has pretty much solidified that we will miss the playoffs. KD gets one year older, his trade value decreases.... and we wont have our lottery pick either.


I hope we clean up shop this offseason, and the entire Upper Management/Ownership of the Suns take a course in Asset Management 101.

There is no way we could get Butler, Kuminga and picks for KD. That's a lot...while also upgrading the C. Kuminga is worth at least one first. So that would be like Butler and 3 firsts for KD. I don't think KD will net more than 2 firsts, a decent prospect and filler. Sure, we gave up 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Jae for him but that was over 2 years ago. He doesn't have a ton of time left.

Now if a team has a lot of picks and can throw us some of their worse firsts, maybe we could get a few. But I don't know who that is.

Even though some think OKC could want him, I seriously doubt that, with what they have going, but KD screwed over Ishbia leaving in FA for nothing with no indication and would be a FA in a year. Presti is a smart dude and I seriously doubt he'd be giving up some of those great players/assets for KD.

I think Houston will really be after Book though.

[TeamTragic]

I just don't think the Warriors offer was good enough. Trading for Butler and then letting him eat up our cap space is a huge risk.

KD and Booker seemed fine until we traded for Beal. That was the mistake that set this team back significantly.

I just hope Beal keeps balling and we find a suitor this summer. Not interested in giving up on KD so quickly because the grass is not greener.

[BobbieL]

An "unbothered" KD dictating the direction of this franchise is quite infuriating.

I wouldve been very happy with a return of JVal, Butler(even with the extension), Kuminga and picks for KD and Nurk. It wouldve given us a chance this season.

This deadline has pretty much solidified that we will miss the playoffs. KD gets one year older, his trade value decreases.... and we wont have our lottery pick either.


I hope we clean up shop this offseason, and the entire Upper Management/Ownership of the Suns take a course in Asset Management 101.

There is no way we could get Butler, Kuminga and picks for KD. That's a lot...while also upgrading the C. Kuminga is worth at least one first. So that would be like Butler and 3 firsts for KD. I don't think KD will net more than 2 firsts, a decent prospect and filler. Sure, we gave up 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Jae for him but that was over 2 years ago. He doesn't have a ton of time left.

Now if a team has a lot of picks and can throw us some of their worse firsts, maybe we could get a few. But I don't know who that is.

Even though some think OKC could want him, I seriously doubt that, with what they have going, but KD screwed over Ishbia leaving in FA for nothing with no indication and would be a FA in a year. Presti is a smart dude and I seriously doubt he'd be giving up some of those great players/assets for KD.

I think Houston will really be after Book though.

Wonder if a team like Dallas might take a peak at Durant - depending on how they do this spring with Davis and Kyrie.

Durant -- I am not expecting a lot. I just want a couple FRPs and the players contracts like you said, prospect and filler - that makes sense.

Book seems perfect for Houston and Greens contract kicks in July so might be easier to trade for at that time. Not getting Sengun or Amen but might be able to get Whitmore Green and filler plus picks back!

[Qwigglez]

I'm probably ignorant/naive but dude is 6'5, can pass, shoots league average from 3...is he playable??

Should have traded T. Jones for anything since he's gone after this year anyway. Could have maybe gotten a 2nd round pick and also cleared up more room for Micic to play/start.

I don't think we got Micic to play him...

I think we should actually give him a shot. I doubt at this point in the season, without a training camp with the team he'll be able to crack the rotation. But it would be nice to see.

[dcoop]

We should just fire and hire a new coach. It’s about that time. lol

[TeamTragic]

We should just fire and hire a new coach. It’s about that time. lol

Don't you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby.

[bwgood77]

I just don't think the Warriors offer was good enough. Trading for Butler and then letting him eat up our cap space is a huge risk.

KD and Booker seemed fine until we traded for Beal. That was the mistake that set this team back significantly.

I just hope Beal keeps balling and we find a suitor this summer. Not interested in giving up on KD so quickly because the grass is not greener.

When Beal was out to start last season, we started 14-15. When he came back, we finished 34-18, and we had a great net rating when all 3 of them were on the court.

Honestly I think what hurt us the most this year (and I hate to say it because I wanted to sign him for a long time), is starting Tyus Jones along with all those guys, who need the ball in our hands. He spends most of his time as a spot up 3 pt shooter, and when he is on the court, our net rating is really bad.

Book basically ends up running the point, and Tyus is for all intents and purposes, a shooting guard, you don't want a 6'1 guy that can't play defense in that role.

So really, the main change from last year to this year in the starting lineup was Tyus Jones, from Allen. That change seemingly hurt us a lot. And the big Nurkic regression.

Beal hasn't been nearly as bad as you and some suggest. He hasn't been awesome but he's had a lot of very solid games, stays engaged on defense, takes it to the rim, gets blocks and steals, etc.

[bwgood77]

An "unbothered" KD dictating the direction of this franchise is quite infuriating.

I wouldve been very happy with a return of JVal, Butler(even with the extension), Kuminga and picks for KD and Nurk. It wouldve given us a chance this season.

This deadline has pretty much solidified that we will miss the playoffs. KD gets one year older, his trade value decreases.... and we wont have our lottery pick either.


I hope we clean up shop this offseason, and the entire Upper Management/Ownership of the Suns take a course in Asset Management 101.

There is no way we could get Butler, Kuminga and picks for KD. That's a lot...while also upgrading the C. Kuminga is worth at least one first. So that would be like Butler and 3 firsts for KD. I don't think KD will net more than 2 firsts, a decent prospect and filler. Sure, we gave up 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Jae for him but that was over 2 years ago. He doesn't have a ton of time left.

Now if a team has a lot of picks and can throw us some of their worse firsts, maybe we could get a few. But I don't know who that is.

Even though some think OKC could want him, I seriously doubt that, with what they have going, but KD screwed over Ishbia leaving in FA for nothing with no indication and would be a FA in a year. Presti is a smart dude and I seriously doubt he'd be giving up some of those great players/assets for KD.

I think Houston will really be after Book though.

Wonder if a team like Dallas might take a peak at Durant - depending on how they do this spring with Davis and Kyrie.

Durant -- I am not expecting a lot. I just want a couple FRPs and the players contracts like you said, prospect and filler - that makes sense.

Book seems perfect for Houston and Greens contract kicks in July so might be easier to trade for at that time. Not getting Sengun or Amen but might be able to get Whitmore Green and filler plus picks back!

I think Dallas would love to, but I don't know how it could work. They don't have too much for picks and not really any players they'd send out. How many players could they send? If we could get back Lively, Christie and 2 firsts, that would be nice, but it wouldn't be enough.

We could probably get like PJ, Gafford, Naji Marshall and Caleb Martin along with 2 picks. Those other guys don't make enough and they probably wouldn't want to trade. It's too bad they didn't get another pick from the Lakers.

But that's not a very exciting package for KD...the last one. I don't think they would trade their only decent young players in Christie and Lively for him.

We'd probably have to take Klay back, which I wouldn't really want.

But yeah, in general I'm thinking teams like the LA teams, GS, DAL. I don't think Miami has enough. It would probably have to be an older team...or a team with TONs of assets where they could throw some away. I mean in theory, an OKC trade would be nice. I don't think we'd get back one of their best players, but even removing them, and taking back some others it would be good if we got a ton of their picks, since they have so many.

But watching their culture and joy, I just don't see how KD fits into that. This team is set for a decade. They don't need to win it all right now, but they could. Not only are they young with a superduperstar who is the favorite for MVP at the age of 26, but the rest of their players are all a few years younger at least and they STILL have tons of picks, so they can literally be that great homegrown team.

I didn't think they could ever build a team better than that one with KD, Russ and Harden on it that quickly from the draft, but this team seems tougher to me....and much much deeper with still tons of picks from other teams too meaning they won't only have bad picks since theirs will be high 20s or 30.

[BobbieL]

There is no way we could get Butler, Kuminga and picks for KD. That's a lot...while also upgrading the C. Kuminga is worth at least one first. So that would be like Butler and 3 firsts for KD. I don't think KD will net more than 2 firsts, a decent prospect and filler. Sure, we gave up 4 firsts, Bridges, Cam and Jae for him but that was over 2 years ago. He doesn't have a ton of time left.

Now if a team has a lot of picks and can throw us some of their worse firsts, maybe we could get a few. But I don't know who that is.

Even though some think OKC could want him, I seriously doubt that, with what they have going, but KD screwed over Ishbia leaving in FA for nothing with no indication and would be a FA in a year. Presti is a smart dude and I seriously doubt he'd be giving up some of those great players/assets for KD.

I think Houston will really be after Book though.

Wonder if a team like Dallas might take a peak at Durant - depending on how they do this spring with Davis and Kyrie.

Durant -- I am not expecting a lot. I just want a couple FRPs and the players contracts like you said, prospect and filler - that makes sense.

Book seems perfect for Houston and Greens contract kicks in July so might be easier to trade for at that time. Not getting Sengun or Amen but might be able to get Whitmore Green and filler plus picks back!

I think Dallas would love to, but I don't know how it could work. They don't have too much for picks and not really any players they'd send out. How many players could they send? If we could get back Lively, Christie and 2 firsts, that would be nice, but it wouldn't be enough.

We could probably get like PJ, Gafford, Naji Marshall and Caleb Martin along with 2 picks. Those other guys don't make enough and they probably wouldn't want to trade. It's too bad they didn't get another pick from the Lakers.

But that's not a very exciting package for KD...the last one. I don't think they would trade their only decent young players in Christie and Lively for him.

We'd probably have to take Klay back, which I wouldn't really want.

But yeah, in general I'm thinking teams like the LA teams, GS, DAL. I don't think Miami has enough. It would probably have to be an older team...or a team with TONs of assets where they could throw some away. I mean in theory, an OKC trade would be nice. I don't think we'd get back one of their best players, but even removing them, and taking back some others it would be good if we got a ton of their picks, since they have so many.

But watching their culture and joy, I just don't see how KD fits into that. This team is set for a decade. They don't need to win it all right now, but they could. Not only are they young with a superduperstar who is the favorite for MVP at the age of 26, but the rest of their players are all a few years younger at least and they STILL have tons of picks, so they can literally be that great homegrown team.

I didn't think they could ever build a team better than that one with KD, Russ and Harden on it that quickly from the draft, but this team seems tougher to me....and much much deeper with still tons of picks from other teams too meaning they won't only have bad picks since theirs will be high 20s or 30.

Unless something changes - I don’t expect an exciting package for Durant. But this what it is. Holding out hope for better would be stupid

Booker would get the better return. And between the two, enough to start a rebuild .

[RaisingArizona]

By the way, on a seperate note, nice to see the old timers still popping their heads up. Cant believe its been 15 years on this board. Shoutout to sunskerr, lilfish, bwgood, madkant, and a few others.... and I see burningheart still perpetually in a state of rage hasnt changed.

Thanks for the shout out bruh

[bwgood77]

By the way, on a seperate note, nice to see the old timers still popping their heads up. Cant believe its been 15 years on this board. Shoutout to sunskerr, lilfish, bwgood, madkant, and a few others.... and I see burningheart still perpetually in a state of rage hasnt changed.

Thanks for the shout out bruh

Hey, he only knows you as ginobiliflops

[bwgood77]

If you hate when realgm goes down and want to continue discussion, we can do it at the following link if you'd like. I've become increasingly concerned it may go down more recently since it is so outdated. But another place to discuss and you can sign up using your realgm name. https://discord.gg/syxGs4GQ

[Mulhollanddrive]

So i think this is our draft hand

2025 worst of 3 teams pick
2026 worst of 4 teams pick
2027 worst of 3 teams pick
2028 worst of 4 teams pick
2029 worst of 3 teams pick
2030 worst of 3 teams pick
2031 -