Around the NBA

[sunskerr]

With the Warrior's incredible success, does anyone think we should have traded Amare for an upgrade at center while having Boris Diaw at the starting 4? Hindsight is 20/20 but we'd have been much better off defensively and Boris may have been the 2nd playmaker we had been looking for all along.

We almost won a ring without Amare in 05-06. That shows you how valuable he was to us.

We should have traded him straight up for KG and paired KG with Marion and Nash. Biggest mistake we made.

As for Diaw, a lot of us remember him with rose colored glasses. Yeah, he filled in at center for us and had a great all around game, but he was also a pussy and hated physical play. He got pushed around on the boards and lacked defense. He also didn't stay in shape.

That said, if we had a real Center at the 5 (even Garnett), then perhaps Boris' lack of rebounding and defense would be better covered.

Yeah, that's pretty true even if hindsight is 20/20. KG could have easily rounded out the roster. Rolling out with

Nash
Bell
Marion
Boris
Garnett

Realistically speaking ,there wouldn't have been any team that could compete with that at all. We probably should have won in 07 anyway but this would have sealed it in 08. According to these, we were Garnett's preferred destination in the summer of 07.

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2917781

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2912075

We could have avoided the whole Shaq and Terry Porter mess. And there's still room to make that Bell/Diaw trade in 08 for J-Rich and Dudley, sliding Marion to the power forward as he would continue to age. With Kerr knowing what he knows now about the fine-tuning of the D'Antoni/Gentry basketball philosophy, I'd bet he'd make the move if he had a chance to redo it.

[Mulhollanddrive]

We backed in our system.

I'm not too fussed, Phoenix Suns winning an NBA championship is one of my last sporting goals to see, otherwise I'd have to find new hobbies.

[King4Day]

I might be alone in this but I think the Warriors dominance isn't good for the NBA. Seeing teams like OKC, Cleveland, LAC, and San Antonio get rolled doesn't give me a single reason to be interested when the playoffs come around.

I felt the NBA really needed the Thunder to win last night to give people like myself an idea that, come playoff time, some teams could challenge Golden State. That's clearly not the case anymore.

I feel like I'm in my own shell of, watch the Suns and disregard the rest of the NBA.

I understand the W's are exciting and this is all new, but come playoff time, there's nothing worth watching since the result is inevitable.

[King4Day]

With the Warrior's incredible success, does anyone think we should have traded Amare for an upgrade at center while having Boris Diaw at the starting 4? Hindsight is 20/20 but we'd have been much better off defensively and Boris may have been the 2nd playmaker we had been looking for all along.

We almost won a ring without Amare in 05-06. That shows you how valuable he was to us.

We should have traded him straight up for KG and paired KG with Marion and Nash. Biggest mistake we made.

As for Diaw, a lot of us remember him with rose colored glasses. Yeah, he filled in at center for us and had a great all around game, but he was also a pussy and hated physical play. He got pushed around on the boards and lacked defense. He also didn't stay in shape.

That said, if we had a real Center at the 5 (even Garnett), then perhaps Boris' lack of rebounding and defense would be better covered.

My understanding is no team wanted Amar'e. Atlanta was another team, if I recall correctly, that we tried engaging in a 3 way deal to bring in Garnett but they didn't want Amar'e. Minny, for whatever reason, also didn't want him. Boston wanted Marion but he refused to sign an extension there.
People rave about Ainge but had they gotten Marion, he doesn't look quite as good as he does now.

[NavLDO]

Well, Knight is on our team and many would rather he wasn't. Heck, many probably wouldn't have wanted to sign him outright in FA much less give up the pick for him. This forum is mostly to talk about our current Phoenix Suns and/or potential future Phoenix Suns. Discussing what we gave up to get such players (cap space, picks, etc) is worthy discussion -- Then discussing what we traded for two future picks falls in this category as well, then, right? So talking about Dragic should be fair game in this scenario as well, should it not? You keep trying to 'move the goalpost' to make your point. Not to mention, our traded 'LA pick' is not continuing to call out the Suns ad FO, which Dragic is continuing to do...just last week he mentioned it again.

Discussing past players is ok in the Around the NBA thread.

But there have been countless Dragic discussions beating the same topic to death. Threads have been locked twice because frankly the vast majority of users are sick of hearing about him. Even if he is finally doing great in Miami and seemingly fitting in. Great for him that he's averaging 20, 8 and 6 and shooting 43% from 3 in March. We got good assets out of the trade anyway and he didn't want to be here. We know some blame him and others blame the FO and some think it is somewhere in the middle. But we've beaten about 50 horses to death discussing it. 9 months ago people were asking if we could lock threads and stop the endless repeated same old conversation/arguments about him, and then a few months back as well.

So, moving this to the Around the NBA thread as you requested. But bottom line, someone brings up Dragic, or trades that happened last year at this time, I respond, and you call me out. Some one complains about losing the LA pick, that's ok. Someone complains about the IT situation, that's ok (even though signing IT took place even earlier). IT is off the team, just like Dragic, so your point falls flat there as well.

All these points have one common factor, and that's McD, and McD is still on the team, as you stated. So you can continue to 'move the goalpost' rather than admit I was called out unfairly. You can bring up threads being locked, so on and so forth, but that's not the point. If someone is going to call out McD for being such a horrible GM, and use the Dragic situation as proof, and that poster isn't called out. Why? One can only assume it's because I'm on the wrong side of the argument, in your opinion.

But again, your point has been made. Dragic discussion is not allowed in a Phx-Sun-centric thread. Yet USING the Dragic situation as evidence as to why McD is a poor GM is OK. Responding by explaining how Dragic mishandled the situation is NOT OK. Got it.

[bwgood77]

Well, Knight is on our team and many would rather he wasn't. Heck, many probably wouldn't have wanted to sign him outright in FA much less give up the pick for him. This forum is mostly to talk about our current Phoenix Suns and/or potential future Phoenix Suns. Discussing what we gave up to get such players (cap space, picks, etc) is worthy discussion -- Then discussing what we traded for two future picks falls in this category as well, then, right? So talking about Dragic should be fair game in this scenario as well, should it not? You keep trying to 'move the goalpost' to make your point. Not to mention, our traded 'LA pick' is not continuing to call out the Suns ad FO, which Dragic is continuing to do...just last week he mentioned it again.

Discussing past players is ok in the Around the NBA thread.

But there have been countless Dragic discussions beating the same topic to death. Threads have been locked twice because frankly the vast majority of users are sick of hearing about him. Even if he is finally doing great in Miami and seemingly fitting in. Great for him that he's averaging 20, 8 and 6 and shooting 43% from 3 in March. We got good assets out of the trade anyway and he didn't want to be here. We know some blame him and others blame the FO and some think it is somewhere in the middle. But we've beaten about 50 horses to death discussing it. 9 months ago people were asking if we could lock threads and stop the endless repeated same old conversation/arguments about him, and then a few months back as well.

So, moving this to the Around the NBA thread as you requested. But bottom line, someone brings up Dragic, or trades that happened last year at this time, I respond, and you call me out. Some one complains about losing the LA pick, that's ok. Someone complains about the IT situation, that's ok (even though signing IT took place even earlier). IT is off the team, just like Dragic, so your point falls flat there as well.

All these points have one common factor, and that's McD, and McD is still on the team, as you stated. So you can continue to 'move the goalpost' rather than admit I was called out unfairly. You can bring up threads being locked, so on and so forth, but that's not the point. If someone is going to call out McD for being such a horrible GM, and use the Dragic situation as proof, and that poster isn't called out. Why? One can only assume it's because I'm on the wrong side of the argument, in your opinion.

But again, your point has been made. Dragic discussion is not allowed in a Phx-Sun-centric thread. Yet USING the Dragic situation as evidence as to why McD is a poor GM is OK. Responding by explaining how Dragic mishandled the situation is NOT OK. Got it.

I'd rather keep McD then get rid of him. I think he did a good job making value out of Dragic, though I've stated that about 1,000 times and don't want to continue talking about it.

About calling you out, I believe what I said was it seems like the one person who talks about Dragic the most is you. And I still believe that, especially since you have continued the discussion about him since I mentioned it. Sure, Frank mentions him when he shows up on occasion and some others whine about him on occasion too.

If people want to continue to discuss him, I think they might as well do it here.

[NavLDO]

Well, Knight is on our team and many would rather he wasn't. Heck, many probably wouldn't have wanted to sign him outright in FA much less give up the pick for him. This forum is mostly to talk about our current Phoenix Suns and/or potential future Phoenix Suns. Discussing what we gave up to get such players (cap space, picks, etc) is worthy discussion -- Then discussing what we traded for two future picks falls in this category as well, then, right? So talking about Dragic should be fair game in this scenario as well, should it not? You keep trying to 'move the goalpost' to make your point. Not to mention, our traded 'LA pick' is not continuing to call out the Suns ad FO, which Dragic is continuing to do...just last week he mentioned it again.

Discussing past players is ok in the Around the NBA thread.

But there have been countless Dragic discussions beating the same topic to death. Threads have been locked twice because frankly the vast majority of users are sick of hearing about him. Even if he is finally doing great in Miami and seemingly fitting in. Great for him that he's averaging 20, 8 and 6 and shooting 43% from 3 in March. We got good assets out of the trade anyway and he didn't want to be here. We know some blame him and others blame the FO and some think it is somewhere in the middle. But we've beaten about 50 horses to death discussing it. 9 months ago people were asking if we could lock threads and stop the endless repeated same old conversation/arguments about him, and then a few months back as well.

So, moving this to the Around the NBA thread as you requested. But bottom line, someone brings up Dragic, or trades that happened last year at this time, I respond, and you call me out. Some one complains about losing the LA pick, that's ok. Someone complains about the IT situation, that's ok (even though signing IT took place even earlier). IT is off the team, just like Dragic, so your point falls flat there as well.

All these points have one common factor, and that's McD, and McD is still on the team, as you stated. So you can continue to 'move the goalpost' rather than admit I was called out unfairly. You can bring up threads being locked, so on and so forth, but that's not the point. If someone is going to call out McD for being such a horrible GM, and use the Dragic situation as proof, and that poster isn't called out. Why? One can only assume it's because I'm on the wrong side of the argument, in your opinion.

But again, your point has been made. Dragic discussion is not allowed in a Phx-Sun-centric thread. Yet USING the Dragic situation as evidence as to why McD is a poor GM is OK. Responding by explaining how Dragic mishandled the situation is NOT OK. Got it.

I'd rather keep McD then get rid of him. I think he did a good job making value out of Dragic, though I've stated that about 1,000 times and don't want to continue talking about it.

About calling you out, I believe what I said was it seems like the one person who talks about Dragic the most is you. And I still believe that, especially since you have continued the discussion about him since I mentioned it. Sure, Frank mentions him when he shows up on occasion and some others whine about him on occasion too.

If people want to continue to discuss him, I think they might as well do it here.

Well, fine then! And BTW, we just stole your TE, so nanner-nanner-boo-boo! Ha! And maybe your safety as well, if the 'rumint' is true, that he's considering signing w/ the Steelers. So go on and whine about that for a year and we can be even!

But back to the point I'm trying to make, is Frank drones on about McD, saintEscaton drones on about Len, others whine about IT, and a ton of fans whine about the LAL pick--over and over. I'm just wondering why I'm somehow special about RESPONDING to multiple posts about he-who-shall-remain-nameless or countless McD-isms.

So when Frank posts about Dragic or McD and how he wronged Dragic, and I disagree with his assessment, and I'd like to RESPOND to said thread, which, again, is all I've done to date, how is that not Suns-related?

Yup, I am pretty much convinced that those two would have run this team to the ground. No doubts those two would have ever never won 48 games again. Yup, pretty much convinced that a backcourt of Dragic and Bled would regress rather than get better, and chase off any interested FAs...Yup, that chemistry they had developed would quickly dissolve. Damn Channing Frye too... what good was he (like he'll ever play for a contender)

Hey but look on the bright side... if McDuecedInHisOwnDrawers hadn't dissolved that squad

My biggest gripe on McDesparateToMakeaDeal was the dismantling of a team that was right on the brink of the playoffs.

These are just a couple of examples I RESPONDED to in that thread, but regardless, I did not bring up Dragic, that would be Frank, on a couple of occasions in that thread. And yet, I'm the one that keeps bringing Dragic up? Negative. And BTW, I'm not now, either. This is about WHAT I posted and HOW you responded. IF Frank is still upset with the dismantling of the team, which he is talking about Dragic, ho am I supposed to NOT bring his name into my response. I'm not making posts or threads willy-nilly about Dragic, but if someone is STILL UPSET with Dragic being traded, how is that any different than me taking issue with a post that someone is upset with Dragic being traded?

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

So, moving this to the Around the NBA thread as you requested. But bottom line, someone brings up Dragic, or trades that happened last year at this time, I respond, and you call me out. Some one complains about losing the LA pick, that's ok. Someone complains about the IT situation, that's ok (even though signing IT took place even earlier). IT is off the team, just like Dragic, so your point falls flat there as well.

All these points have one common factor, and that's McD, and McD is still on the team, as you stated. So you can continue to 'move the goalpost' rather than admit I was called out unfairly. You can bring up threads being locked, so on and so forth, but that's not the point. If someone is going to call out McD for being such a horrible GM, and use the Dragic situation as proof, and that poster isn't called out. Why? One can only assume it's because I'm on the wrong side of the argument, in your opinion.

But again, your point has been made. Dragic discussion is not allowed in a Phx-Sun-centric thread. Yet USING the Dragic situation as evidence as to why McD is a poor GM is OK. Responding by explaining how Dragic mishandled the situation is NOT OK. Got it.

I'd rather keep McD then get rid of him. I think he did a good job making value out of Dragic, though I've stated that about 1,000 times and don't want to continue talking about it.

About calling you out, I believe what I said was it seems like the one person who talks about Dragic the most is you. And I still believe that, especially since you have continued the discussion about him since I mentioned it. Sure, Frank mentions him when he shows up on occasion and some others whine about him on occasion too.

If people want to continue to discuss him, I think they might as well do it here.

Well, fine then! And BTW, we just stole your TE, so nanner-nanner-boo-boo! Ha! And maybe your safety as well, if the 'rumint' is true, that he's considering signing w/ the Steelers. So go on and whine about that for a year and we can be even!

But back to the point I'm trying to make, is Frank drones on about McD, saintEscaton drones on about Len, others whine about IT, and a ton of fans whine about the LAL pick--over and over. I'm just wondering why I'm somehow special about RESPONDING to multiple posts about he-who-shall-remain-nameless or countless McD-isms.

So when Frank posts about Dragic or McD and how he wronged Dragic, and I disagree with his assessment, and I'd like to RESPOND to said thread, which, again, is all I've done to date, how is that not Suns-related?

Yup, I am pretty much convinced that those two would have run this team to the ground. No doubts those two would have ever never won 48 games again. Yup, pretty much convinced that a backcourt of Dragic and Bled would regress rather than get better, and chase off any interested FAs...Yup, that chemistry they had developed would quickly dissolve. Damn Channing Frye too... what good was he (like he'll ever play for a contender)

Hey but look on the bright side... if McDuecedInHisOwnDrawers hadn't dissolved that squad

My biggest gripe on McDesparateToMakeaDeal was the dismantling of a team that was right on the brink of the playoffs.

These are just a couple of examples I RESPONDED to in that thread, but regardless, I did not bring up Dragic, that would be Frank, on a couple of occasions in that thread. And yet, I'm the one that keeps bringing Dragic up? Negative. And BTW, I'm not now, either. This is about WHAT I posted and HOW you responded. IF Frank is still upset with the dismantling of the team, which he is talking about Dragic, ho am I supposed to NOT bring his name into my response. I'm not making posts or threads willy-nilly about Dragic, but if someone is STILL UPSET with Dragic being traded, how is that any different than me taking issue with a post that someone is upset with Dragic being traded?

I think we already established that you were just responding to other people who brought up Dragic. I said it's fine. What else do you want me to say? If you feel like we are in an argument, you win. Congrats.

Who did you steal? Ladarius Green? If so, you will like him. He's good. That sucks though, because I've always thought he would be great once Gates left. If you got Gates that sucks too, but in that case at least Green would be around, but I'm guessing it wasn't Gates. Weddle is good too.

[LV-Suns]

Out of all the former Suns, it just makes me happy seeing LB doing well.

https://www.streamable.com/gebk

[Bogyo]

If Bosh really does return this year, the Heat will scare some team shtless in the second round

[Bogyo]

This is just amazing (espn):

WESTBROOK'S END-OF-GAME STRUGGLES
In his last eight games, Russell Westbrook has shot 10-39 in fourth quarter/overtimes (25.6%), including 0-11 on 3-pointers. The Thunder have lost 12 games this season when leading entering the fourth quarter (most in the NBA).

I still think they will trade him this summer.

[bwgood77]

This is just amazing (espn):

WESTBROOK'S END-OF-GAME STRUGGLES
In his last eight games, Russell Westbrook has shot 10-39 in fourth quarter/overtimes (25.6%), including 0-11 on 3-pointers. The Thunder have lost 12 games this season when leading entering the fourth quarter (most in the NBA).

I still think they will trade him this summer.

The Thunder will blow it up this offseason. There I said it.
My guess they'll trade Westbrook to the Lakers for D'angelo and this years draft pick (Simons/Ingram) + fillers.
(Dunno if this is the right thread for this, but the around the nba is dead)

The ONLY way they would is if Durant leaves. You simply don't let guys like that go, especially when you have two of the top 5 players in the league.

[Bogyo]

This is just amazing (espn):

WESTBROOK'S END-OF-GAME STRUGGLES
In his last eight games, Russell Westbrook has shot 10-39 in fourth quarter/overtimes (25.6%), including 0-11 on 3-pointers. The Thunder have lost 12 games this season when leading entering the fourth quarter (most in the NBA).

I still think they will trade him this summer.

The Thunder will blow it up this offseason. There I said it.
My guess they'll trade Westbrook to the Lakers for D'angelo and this years draft pick (Simons/Ingram) + fillers.
(Dunno if this is the right thread for this, but the around the nba is dead)

The ONLY way they would is if Durant leaves. You simply don't let guys like that go, especially when you have two of the top 5 players in the league.

So what do you think they will do? Max out Durant, and start next year with this same crew? Thats the other strong possibility, but I just can't see them being content being glued to the 3rd place in the west (and 4th best overall likely). Them being owners, management and Westbrook and Durant. Don't know who the "weakest link" will be.

[bwgood77]

This is just amazing (espn):

WESTBROOK'S END-OF-GAME STRUGGLES
In his last eight games, Russell Westbrook has shot 10-39 in fourth quarter/overtimes (25.6%), including 0-11 on 3-pointers. The Thunder have lost 12 games this season when leading entering the fourth quarter (most in the NBA).

I still think they will trade him this summer.

The Thunder will blow it up this offseason. There I said it.
My guess they'll trade Westbrook to the Lakers for D'angelo and this years draft pick (Simons/Ingram) + fillers.
(Dunno if this is the right thread for this, but the around the nba is dead)

The ONLY way they would is if Durant leaves. You simply don't let guys like that go, especially when you have two of the top 5 players in the league.

So what do you think they will do? Max out Durant, and start next year with this same crew? Thats the other strong possibility, but I just can't see them being content being glued to the 3rd place in the west (and 4th best overall likely). Them being owners, management and Westbrook and Durant. Don't know who the "weakest link" will be.

I just hate the mindset if that it appears you are glued to 3rd place in the west than you might as well start over. Many would have said those things about the Suns during SSOL (sure, we hovered between maybe 1st and 6th or so), but even in 09-10 we were third.

If that team was broken down to rebuild, fans would have been pissed.

OKC has played GS down to the wire and had them down big...just because they barely lose doesn't mean you should absolutely count them out.

What happens if Kawhi and Curry have season ending injuries next year (like Westbrook and KD have had the last two years)? Anything can happen.

This is their first year under a new coach, and KD coming back after being out for a year.

Now I don't expect OKC to beat either team in the playoffs this year, but I don't think it's out of the question. They certainly have a far better chance than anyone else.

[Bogyo]

I just hate the mindset if that it appears you are glued to 3rd place in the west than you might as well start over. Many would have said those things about the Suns during SSOL (sure, we hovered between maybe 1st and 6th or so), but even in 09-10 we were third.

If that team was broken down to rebuild, fans would have been pissed.

OKC has played GS down to the wire and had them down big...just because they barely lose doesn't mean you should absolutely count them out.

What happens if Kawhi and Curry have season ending injuries next year (like Westbrook and KD have had the last two years)? Anything can happen.

This is their first year under a new coach, and KD coming back after being out for a year.

Now I don't expect OKC to beat either team in the playoffs this year, but I don't think it's out of the question. They certainly have a far better chance than anyone else.

Fair enough. I just think that they are not content (and shouldn't be) with waiting around for a cpl of injuries at the right time, and I don't see them beating GSW or SA (or CLE) in a 7 game series, and I dunno how they could improve internally. They have been pretty **** in big games in the last 2-3 years it seems, and nothing has changed from what I see. I might be a bit impatient, I know. As much as I love watching KD or Westbrook putting on a show I just dont think that team has "IT".
With the way NBA has shaped up (GSW and SA ruling for another 2-3 years likely), I think if I were them I'd explore the market for Westbrook, and try to get a haul, becouse after a cpl years when his athletic abilities diminishes and his salary is much higher he will be next to impossible to trade. KD will always have his shooting, and long arms on D. And if you trade a player of Westbrooks caliber you can rebuild on the fly, with only missing one beat, not 2-3-4 seasons.
Just my 2cents - and I m not even sure they would get an offer which is worth giving up Westbrook for... So just armchair GMing

[Bogyo]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/demarcus-cousins-blames-george-karl-for-his-suspension-025036530.html

New chapter in the Cousins-Karl sitcom. Who will be forced to leave this summer? Usually I'd vote on the coaching change if we are talking about a player with Cuz's caliber, but it's the Kings, and its Cousins we are talking about here.

[Mulhollanddrive]

OKC problem is players 3 to 15 don't make a difference in their losses.

[Damkac]

Anyone here wants to trade for Harden?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNMVVoC8LZc[/youtube]

[Bogyo]

OKC problem is players 3 to 15 don't make a difference in their losses.

I know, but how u gonna change that if you are allready capped out and have to resign (max out) your top 2 guys this year and next?
No one will give them anything for Kanter (anything=player(s) who have a better overall game, and while I know Kanter is useless on D, but he is a very good offensive player, hence the overall), or the rest of their players. Ibaka could fetch them something, but he proved that he can't be a reliable 2nd guy when KD and Russ were out, so I wouldn't count on that either.

[bwgood77]

Fair enough. I just think that they are not content (and shouldn't be) with waiting around for a cpl of injuries at the right time, and I don't see them beating GSW or SA (or CLE) in a 7 game series, and I dunno how they could improve internally. They have been pretty **** in big games in the last 2-3 years it seems, and nothing has changed from what I see. I might be a bit impatient, I know. As much as I love watching KD or Westbrook putting on a show I just dont think that team has "IT".
With the way NBA has shaped up (GSW and SA ruling for another 2-3 years likely), I think if I were them I'd explore the market for Westbrook, and try to get a haul, becouse after a cpl years when his athletic abilities diminishes and his salary is much higher he will be next to impossible to trade. KD will always have his shooting, and long arms on D. And if you trade a player of Westbrooks caliber you can rebuild on the fly, with only missing one beat, not 2-3-4 seasons.
Just my 2cents - and I m not even sure they would get an offer which is worth giving up Westbrook for... So just armchair GMing

If they traded Westbrook than KD is gone for sure. They were probably the best team in the league (even after Harden left) until Westbrook and then KD got injured, and this is their first year healthy, and they are still young. It's not like they are getting old or anything.

Plus, you could have said the same thing about SA when they lost to 8 seeded Memphis after getting swept by us in the playoffs the year before. Even last year they lost in the first round. I think GS will start to lose their depth soon and that will hurt and SA will lose Duncan and Manu and then Parker...they will still be good, but the line is thin between those teams and OKC.