2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation

[BobbieL]

You trade for 36 year old Butler and give him a huge contract so you can squeeze into the play in? And then in subsequent years this team only gets older and worse.

That's been many players mentality since the bubble though. Squeeze into the play-in, and try to make a deep playoff run. The Heat have been doing that since Butler arrived into town. The Lakers were all about it with Lebron. The Nets tried that in KD's last year too. The Warriors. All of the older players have been trying to preserve themselves for the playoffs and it is ruining the NBA (personal opinion). I mentioned it before, but Booker's taken on this approach after having the Suns franchise winning record in 2021-22 season and losing to the Mavs. It's been many teams' formula since Silver changed to the play-in format.

I don't think any of those teams that you mention could have realistically had much of a higher seed though, which is why they didn't go anywhere.

The only reason Miami beat Milwaukee the bubble year is because of the break. The Bucks were rolling....probably the hottest team in the last decade when the season stopped, and then never were the same that year after the break.

I don't think LeBron's Lakers and Curry's Warriors are just trying to coast in the season and make the play in. I think they really want to win during the season. Both teams would love to have a top seed. With Jimmy, I know he often doesn't care...it's happened multiple times with him. So Phoenix is probably the perfect place.

One question, do you think the 4th in their crew when they go golfing during the season with Book, Butler and KD would be Barkley?

Did you see KD and Book at the end of the game last night?

Spoiler:

Thats not a good look losing a game. I want to trade them more as I think the future is not good so start now figuring out the future

Doing what it will cost to get rid of Beal will only set the franchise back even more

Ishbia - he tried. it didn't work. So be it. And that should be his message. I tried - we will always try but sometimes, reality is reality so we pivoted. That doesn't mean we are not striving to win a title. That is the goal.

Fans would accept that. You draft well, have cap space to make real moves - -build a team the right way

[Ghost of Kleine]

Don't forget we gave us up Camara in that trade too.

I hate Ayton like anyone else here but we'd be a far bigger, more athletic and ultimately better team without that disaster class of a trade

Ayton wanted out. He was done with the team and the team/fans were done with him. Doesn't make the trade good obviously but he wouldn't be playing for the Suns.

JJ was trying to trade him and the front office didn't even want to extend him and it was no secret Book and KD didn't really want him here anyway so the feeling was mutual.

A real leader would have made it work but KD and Book are horrible leaders in the locker room and on the floor. Pippen was unhappy with the Bulls front office and he felt underpayed but MJ made it work, the minute MJ retired after the second repeat Pippen was out of there and signed with Houston which ultimately did not work out.

If we're being honest here, the suns front office fumbled the Ayton situation from the jump (right after our 21' finals run). As soon as they determined that they didn't want to extend him, they should have quietly sought out a trade while his value was at its highest!


Instead, they sat on him for over a year, after Sarver tells him that he doesn't value him and he could get 100 ( or something??) other centers that could do everything that Ayton could ( at that restaurant I showed a picture of). Then they sat on him again as a restricted free agent as the resentment continued to grow during his restricted free Agency.


And finally after close to 2 years of being told they didn't value him and wouldn't pay him the max he was seeking, they let Indiana make an offer, only then to match it rather than lose him for nothing to Indiana. But Sarver and Jones just sat on Ayton for such a ridiculously long time and didn't even try to really move him until another team ( Indiana) intended to sign him. And blew it big time!!!

They should have just traded him that very summer AS SOON AS they decided that they didn't intend to max him. Because his value was at its highest point right after that finals run. They knew they didn't want to keep him, but.........................

1- They publicly let it be known they didn't value him and wouldn't sign him to the money he was seeking.

2- They sit on him until he reaches restricted free agency letting the rift/ resentment grow bigger and bigger. All while minimizing him in favor of a guard centric scheme which only further depth r plummeted his percieved trade value instead of showcasing him to try and recoup some value from what they severely damaged by letting it get out publicly that they didn't value him and wouldn't sign him.

3- They let him reach unrestricted free agency and then only choose to sign him rather than let him go for nothing! BECAUSE they sat so long on him and gave away any leverage by publicly making it known that they didn't value him and wouldn't pay him.

4- Then after everything, they finally paid him the max out of desperation. And moved him for a craptastic package due to the gery scenario they created over multiple years. They were very inept and showed egregious asset management!! Ironically a trademark of James Jones tenure and Savers' incredible parsimonious reputation.

Overall our front office was undeniably terrible and grossly inept. Otherwise they wouldn't have aat on Ayton until his value got so low but still signed him to a max after tanking his value and then accepting a crap trade that resulted from a scenario they clearly created back in 21.'

[bwgood77]

Which is why the Butler trade needs to happen ASAP. Sure he will be out a few games due to the suspension but if we get to the trade deadline and playing well with Beal and Butler has not been traded forget it.

You trade for 36 year old Butler and give him a huge contract so you can squeeze into the play in? And then in subsequent years this team only gets older and worse.

You're absolutely right man. But honestly, my only interest in a Jimmy Butler trade is not because I think that he'll make us a contender or even help us turn this season around enough to make the playoffs. Because I don't really think that he can even do that for us at this point unfortunately. I think we just have to many issues and no real assets to change tu things immeasurably at this point.

Honestly though, the only reason that I'd have interest in getting Butler would be because he wouldn't have a no trade clause like Beal and that means that we could actually trade him somewhere even if he didn't approve that trade and maybe recoup a few assets from him.

Especially because I believe that even Booker and KDs' trade values are rapidly depreciating the longer they stay in this big three fiasco and continue to underperform and not even show effort or interest in winning. That's also limiting our future potentially! But if the deal requires us giving up our UNPROTECTED 31' first AND/ OR DUNN ( either really). Then in that case I rather just keep Beal here for the following two years or whatever and just blow it up and tank hard!

Let Beal enjoy the rebuild on a terrible team for screwing us with his no trade clause since " he holds all the cards". He can still hold them through a full rebuild then.

Well no real discussion needed then. Because it would obviously take our pick and/or Dunn to even have a chance at that trade, anyway. But yeah, if your theory is just because we could later trade Jimmy for assets, then why give up a 31 1st and/or Dunn now to get him? And honestly, 36 or 37 year old Butler at $50+ million a year will not be a positive contract that you could trade for anything meaningful.

[Slim Charless]

Ayton wanted out. He was done with the team and the team/fans were done with him. Doesn't make the trade good obviously but he wouldn't be playing for the Suns.

JJ was trying to trade him and the front office didn't even want to extend him and it was no secret Book and KD didn't really want him here anyway so the feeling was mutual.

A real leader would have made it work but KD and Book are horrible leaders in the locker room and on the floor. Pippen was unhappy with the Bulls front office and he felt underpayed but MJ made it work, the minute MJ retired after the second repeat Pippen was out of there and signed with Houston which ultimately did not work out.

If we're being honest here, the suns front office fumbled the Ayton situation from the jump (right after our 21' finals run). As soon as they determined that they didn't want to extend him, they should have quietly sought out a trade while his value was at its highest!


Instead, they sat on him for over a year, after Sarver tells him that he doesn't value him and he could get 100 ( or something??) other centers that could do everything that Ayton could ( at that restaurant I showed a picture of). Then they sat on him again as a restricted free agent as the resentment continued to grow during his restricted free Agency.


And finally after close to 2 years of being told they didn't value him and wouldn't pay him the max he was seeking, they let Indiana make an offer, only then to match it rather than lose him for nothing to Indiana. But Sarver and Jones just sat on Ayton for such a ridiculously long time and didn't even try to really move him until another team ( Indiana) intended to sign him. And blew it big time!!!

They should have just traded him that very summer AS SOON AS they decided that they didn't intend to max him. Because his value was at its highest point right after that finals run. They knew they didn't want to keep him, but.........................

1- They publicly let it be known they didn't value him and wouldn't sign him to the money he was seeking.

2- They sit on him until he reaches restricted free agency letting the rift/ resentment grow bigger and bigger. All while minimizing him in favor of a guard centric scheme which only further depth r plummeted his percieved trade value instead of showcasing him to try and recoup some value from what they severely damaged by letting it get out publicly that they didn't value him and wouldn't sign him.

3- They let him reach unrestricted free agency and then only choose to sign him rather than let him go for nothing! BECAUSE they sat so long on him and gave away any leverage by publicly making it known that they didn't value him and wouldn't pay him.

4- Then after everything, they finally paid him the max out of desperation. And moved him for a craptastic package due to the gery scenario they created over multiple years. They were very inept and showed egregious asset management!! Ironically a trademark of James Jones tenure and Savers' incredible parsimonious reputation.

Overall our front office was undeniably terrible and grossly inept. Otherwise they wouldn't have aat on Ayton until his value got so low but still signed him to a max after tanking his value and then accepting a crap trade that resulted from a scenario they clearly created back in 21.'

Read on Twitter

This Beal tweet is what we all need to hope holds true. Suns fans have only Beal left to save us from Ish making an even stupider move in trading for Butler and giving him 100m.

One more month. Trade deadline is a month from yesterday. So we just need to survive one more month. By the summer, there will be much better options and Ishbia will (hopefully) take 1 of those trades.

Just gotta get to February 8th

[JJ13]

Hawks seem like a candidate to make a splashy trade. Tied for 7th spot in East, 2.5 games from 4th. Have several young/talented assets with redundancy. What about a package around Hunter/Capela/Daniels + picks for KD?

Hunter shooting 44% on 3pt with 6.3 attempts per game. Capela and Daniels bring instant defense. Salaries match almost perfectly.

[Ghost of Kleine]

You trade for 36 year old Butler and give him a huge contract so you can squeeze into the play in? And then in subsequent years this team only gets older and worse.

You're absolutely right man. But honestly, my only interest in a Jimmy Butler trade is not because I think that he'll make us a contender or even help us turn this season around enough to make the playoffs. Because I don't really think that he can even do that for us at this point unfortunately. I think we just have to many issues and no real assets to change tu things immeasurably at this point.

Honestly though, the only reason that I'd have interest in getting Butler would be because he wouldn't have a no trade clause like Beal and that means that we could actually trade him somewhere even if he didn't approve that trade and maybe recoup a few assets from him.

Especially because I believe that even Booker and KDs' trade values are rapidly depreciating the longer they stay in this big three fiasco and continue to underperform and not even show effort or interest in winning. That's also limiting our future potentially! But if the deal requires us giving up our UNPROTECTED 31' first AND/ OR DUNN ( either really). Then in that case I rather just keep Beal here for the following two years or whatever and just blow it up and tank hard!

Let Beal enjoy the rebuild on a terrible team for screwing us with his no trade clause since " he holds all the cards". He can still hold them through a full rebuild then.

Well no real discussion needed then. Because it would obviously take our pick and/or Dunn to even have a chance at that trade, anyway. But yeah, if your theory is just because we could later trade Jimmy for assets, then why give up a 31 1st and/or Dunn now to get him? And honestly, 36 or 37 year old Butler at $50+ million a year will not be a positive contract that you could trade for anything meaningful.

Exactly my thought process honestly. The trade really does nothing for us aside from prolonging the delusion of possibly contending and the singular centerpiece value not being discussed is getting off of Beals' no trade clause.


Ultimately, Ishbia is pursuing this trade to try and extend the delusion of us being a contender rather than owning up to his mistakes and taking full accountability and starting a rebuild. He's just trying to avoid accepting accountability because of his irrational hubris.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Slim Charless]

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1 more month Beal. Just hold on 1 more month

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I've been hoping we would blow this team up since our game 7 loss to the Mavs. Now, we can't blow it up unless the Rox are willing to send our picks back for Booker. But if you're the Rockets, do you go for it? Or does holding our picks guarantee they'll contend for the next 10+ years? What makes this nearly impossible is that because of Jalen Green's extension, his contract has a poison pill, so we can't take him back in any deal. They'd have to find a third team for him, which would be very difficult unless the Pistons would send us Ivey for him.

Ideally:
- Booker and O'Neale to HOU; Brooks, Adams, Sheppard, Ivey and picks to PHX; Green to DET
- Tyus Jones somewhere for 3 2nd rd picks
- Allen somewhere for a bad contract and a 1st
- Durant to the highest bidder
- Let Beal rot here in hell

Dream scenario: Loop WAS into the Durant trade so we get our picks back in exchange for whatever Durant would net us.

Problem #1 is that if Houston isn't interested, we are f*cked, pure and simple.
Problem #2 is that Ishbia thinks he's smarter than he is. I bet he'd prefer to trade for other teams picks and continue trying to win - and this simply will not work. If he tries to avoid the tank, he'll turn 10 years of sucking into 20. And at some point, we'll all be dead.

[BobbieL]

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1 more month Beal. Just hold on 1 more month

Best thing that can happen for the suns is they lose a lot of games and Beal hang toughs but Book and KD have a market


I didn’t want to trade Mikal. Will have zero problem moving Booker

[dremill24]

Im not much of a Nick Richards fan but if you're just trying to get off Nurkic and get a live body at C...

Is the Grant Williams contract bad enough at this point for Charlotte to swap him and Richards for Nurk? Maybe throw in a 2nd for CHA?

[mkot]

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What are our odds of actually going 30-17 the rest of the way as the season gets more difficult and competitive due to teams trying to secure the tiebreakers?

Which is why the Butler trade needs to happen ASAP. Sure he will be out a few games due to the suspension but if we get to the trade deadline and playing well with Beal and Butler has not been traded forget it.

We need to stop thinking about trading for Butler ASAP.

Every team has some bad losses, and any team can beat any team in the NBA, I get that, but this is not Dallas losing to Utah because some mental collapse at the end or Denver losing to Washington because of missing players, we got blown out. The **** 7 win tanking team who lost 10 in a row, their last home win was in November, took the lead at the second half and never look back. This team quit and at no point they believe and give effort.

This is not a new team, I've seen the KD/Booker/Beal for a season and a quarter, I've seen enough. Call Houston and see what we can get for Booker, do KD a favor and shop him while he still has value, keep Beal as our tank commander until he comes off the book.

But we won't because last I heard we willing to pay Butler, we are tripling down

[bwgood77]

Hawks seem like a candidate to make a splashy trade. Tied for 7th spot in East, 2.5 games from 4th. Have several young/talented assets with redundancy. What about a package around Hunter/Capela/Daniels + picks for KD?

Hunter shooting 44% on 3pt with 6.3 attempts per game. Capela and Daniels bring instant defense. Salaries match almost perfectly.

Heck, I'd just do Hunter and Capela for KD straight up. But throw in picks and Daniels, I'll take it.

[bwgood77]

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Statements like this don't really mean anything. People often read into it meaning something other than "it's not a consideration because there is not some trade that relies on him waiving it pending".

[Slim Charless]

I've been hoping we would blow this team up since our game 7 loss to the Mavs. Now, we can't blow it up unless the Rox are willing to send our picks back for Booker. But if you're the Rockets, do you go for it? Or does holding our picks guarantee they'll contend for the next 10+ years? What makes this nearly impossible is that because of Jalen Green's extension, his contract has a poison pill, so we can't take him back in any deal. They'd have to find a third team for him, which would be very difficult unless the Pistons would send us Ivey for him.

Ideally:
- Booker and O'Neale to HOU; Brooks, Adams, Sheppard, Ivey and picks to PHX; Green to DET
- Tyus Jones somewhere for 3 2nd rd picks
- Allen somewhere for a bad contract and a 1st
- Durant to the highest bidder
- Let Beal rot here in hell

Dream scenario: Loop WAS into the Durant trade so we get our picks back in exchange for whatever Durant would net us.

Problem #1 is that if Houston isn't interested, we are f*cked, pure and simple.
Problem #2 is that Ishbia thinks he's smarter than he is. I bet he'd prefer to trade for other teams picks and continue trying to win - and this simply will not work. If he tries to avoid the tank, he'll turn 10 years of sucking into 20. And at some point, we'll all be dead.

So you think Booker is worth only Brooks, Adams (who's a free agent btw and can't be moved) Reed Sheppard and our picks?

That's the BEST case scenario? Don't think Devin Booker is worth "slightly" more? Just a tad.

[bwgood77]

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I can't decide if Sidery is now anti Phx or if just reading his tweets makes Ishbia sound like an idiot because it's the truth.

Great trade tactics. Hey we want Butler...we will pay him whatever he wants.....anyone want Beal and to send Miami something worth Butler in the process???

[bwgood77]

I've been hoping we would blow this team up since our game 7 loss to the Mavs. Now, we can't blow it up unless the Rox are willing to send our picks back for Booker. But if you're the Rockets, do you go for it? Or does holding our picks guarantee they'll contend for the next 10+ years? What makes this nearly impossible is that because of Jalen Green's extension, his contract has a poison pill, so we can't take him back in any deal. They'd have to find a third team for him, which would be very difficult unless the Pistons would send us Ivey for him.

Ideally:
- Booker and O'Neale to HOU; Brooks, Adams, Sheppard, Ivey and picks to PHX; Green to DET
- Tyus Jones somewhere for 3 2nd rd picks
- Allen somewhere for a bad contract and a 1st
- Durant to the highest bidder
- Let Beal rot here in hell

Dream scenario: Loop WAS into the Durant trade so we get our picks back in exchange for whatever Durant would net us.

Problem #1 is that if Houston isn't interested, we are f*cked, pure and simple.
Problem #2 is that Ishbia thinks he's smarter than he is. I bet he'd prefer to trade for other teams picks and continue trying to win - and this simply will not work. If he tries to avoid the tank, he'll turn 10 years of sucking into 20. And at some point, we'll all be dead.

Yeah, I wonder how many people think "damn, I'll probably be dead before we are relevant again"....

Anyway, I didn't know that about Green. Is that still the case this summer? I am 99.9% certain that we will not trade Book or KD this season, but hopefully if we miss the playoffs and someone else is able to get Butler, the writing is so glaring on the wall that we realize we need to blow it up.

So I think this summer is when things could happen, IF there is any chance that they do. We just have to hope we don't get Butler because that will prolong this a good 2 more years. Even if we are like 5 seed next year, I think we struggle to get out of the 1st round. KD will be 37 and Butler 36 next year.

Frankly, if I was Book I myself would probably start thinking "hey, do I want to tie my future to these guys?" Book is in his prime. He should be licking his chops to play with a young hungry team like Houston that has a great defense but could use a great scorer.

Oh, I almost meant to say in regards to the trade stuff, if we can't get Green, can't we always just take in FVV? I mean it's just the filler salary to match and he would be a huge expiring, and then we'd have cap space. Jabari Smith or Amen Thompson could be the main piece in addition to picks.

[BobbieL]

Hawks seem like a candidate to make a splashy trade. Tied for 7th spot in East, 2.5 games from 4th. Have several young/talented assets with redundancy. What about a package around Hunter/Capela/Daniels + picks for KD?

Hunter shooting 44% on 3pt with 6.3 attempts per game. Capela and Daniels bring instant defense. Salaries match almost perfectly.

Heck, I'd just do Hunter and Capela for KD straight up. But throw in picks and Daniels, I'll take it.

I would do that deal as well. I have no illusions of getting the total best value for Durant and Booker. But getting off the contracts, getting some good players back and with Booker if he goes to Houston, draft picks - would be the best thing moving forward.

Ishbia isn't stupid. I would think he knows what the smart thing to do is but will his ego and fandom take over. Thats what got the Suns to where they are now if reports are true - that he was at dinner with buddies and he made the trade with Joe Tsai himself. My theory,.. He wanted to impress his friends so he took it out to show how big he is.. "...hey I just bought a team and going to get Durant you MFers - drinks on me!!!"

[sunsbg]

How did we get to a fire sell ? "Big 3" but still talented players, Nurkic + Allen actually looked pretty good this time last season, two great A/TO PGs, two promising rookies, championship coach...the team shouldn't be that bad. It's mind boggling. Cursed ?

[bwgood77]

Hawks seem like a candidate to make a splashy trade. Tied for 7th spot in East, 2.5 games from 4th. Have several young/talented assets with redundancy. What about a package around Hunter/Capela/Daniels + picks for KD?

Hunter shooting 44% on 3pt with 6.3 attempts per game. Capela and Daniels bring instant defense. Salaries match almost perfectly.

Heck, I'd just do Hunter and Capela for KD straight up. But throw in picks and Daniels, I'll take it.

I would do that deal as well. I have no illusions of getting the total best value for Durant and Booker. But getting off the contracts, getting some good players back and with Booker if he goes to Houston, draft picks - would be the best thing moving forward.

Ishbia isn't stupid. I would think he knows what the smart thing to do is but will his ego and fandom take over. Thats what got the Suns to where they are now if reports are true - that he was at dinner with buddies and he made the trade with Joe Tsai himself. My theory,.. He wanted to impress his friends so he took it out to show how big he is.. "...hey I just bought a team and going to get Durant you MFers - drinks on me!!!"

Yeah, and he was probably like "I'll show that Dan Gilbert what a real NBA team looks like over the next few years!"

Anyway, regarding fandom, if a true fan, he would make the right moves and look toward the future. If we could get a few exciting young players, and our picks back, at least us struggling in games wouldn't be so painful and we could look forward to the future.