2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick!

[sunsbum]

Is Garlands injury something to be worried about long term?

russbrook came back fine, bledsoe has as well. I think hes young enough to where he shouldn't have problems but that meniscus thing seems to always be lurking although it seems they have really nailed down how to treat it better in the last 10-15 years.

[Blonde]

Garland is one of the few guys in this draft who has obvious All NBA upside along with Zion/Morant/Barrett. Being too skinny/small isn’t a legitimate concern for the PG position aside from extreme outliers like Ulis or IT. I’m not worried about his size at all. I’m all in on him at 6.* That said, I understand it’s a bit of a boom or bust pick.

*Assuming Culver is taken

[Revived]

Is Garlands injury something to be worried about long term?

Same injury Bledsoe had.

[Qwigglez]

Garland reminds me more of McCollum than Lillard actually.

[kennydorglas]

Another guard from Klutch.
Garland is a baller but YIKES.

[bwgood77]

Likewise with Tucker. He has a 7ft wingspan too and probably a thicc 230-240lbs

There's definitely reasons why most teams don't play 6'6-6'7 guys at the the 4 or 5 and Tucker/Dray are kind of the exceptions. I will say something in favor of Clarke though, he is easily more athletic than both Dray and Tucker and *appears* to have quite a high defensive IQ. But if he isn't able to get a halfway decent jump shot, it's going to be a problem.

I still like Clarke but his very average wingspan and his age and weight is a little concerning. His age is concerning because it means he's more physically mature than most entering the NBA so he is closer to his ceiling when it comes adding size and strength than say, an 18 year old Booker coming in looking like he's skin and bones.

What I like about Clarke is that he is one of the better defensive guys in college history, and best shot blockers ever despite not having the measurables. What he has on a lot of these guys with more length is more heart, iq, athleticisim and timing. Just like I wouldn't knock Zion for his wingspan because he is an athletic freak, I feel similarly to Brandon Clarke, given the other options. Most of these guys like Culver and Hunter have some decent qualities (defense for Culver, 3 pt shooting for Hunter), they are just more wings with big flaws...normal guys that would get drafted in the teens. Now Clarke is probably a guy that normally goes in the teens, mainly due to the age and measurables, but you can't really measure the intangibles and heart a guy brings, but the elite defense, shot blocking and finishing would be welcome given our likely options.

I do like Garland. Not sure about White.

His athleticism and defensive IQ certainly helps made him one of the best defenders in college history. But the best defenders at the college level doesn't always translate in the NBA, especially if you don't have much offense outside of the restricted area. At the NBA level where guys are more athletic, bigger and on average has a higher offensive IQ than at the college level, I do think his below average size will become more of a factor. FWIW Zion has a 6'10ish wing span which isn't ideal for a big man but his unreal athleticism, strength, size (a good 80lbs heavier than Clarke) and of course defensive IQ helps even the odds. More importantly, what Zion is bringing to the NBA (size, strength and athleticism) would *still* put him in that elite tier for those 3 categories. Clarke's size isn't great, his strength isn't great, his wingspan is certainly below average and while he is very athletic, he may not necessarily be in that elite tier.

I'm not saying other alternatives aren't flawed either (quite frankly, I'd rather move the pick altogether) but just having come around on Clarke over the past 2 months or so and seeing his measurements now does bring back those initial questions I had of him. In a very weak draft I could certainly see him go in the top 10 but being a top 10 pick in a weak draft doesn't necessarily mean he has the usual top 10 pick upside. Given his age as well and the fact that he could still be a top 10 guy actually says more about the quality of the draft than it does his talent/projections.

I don't have much to say about Garland just because there's so little film of him. White I need to research a bit more. I'm probably less enthusiastic about looking in this draft than in previous drafts largely because I want to move this pick for a vet and also just because of how weak this draft is.

I agree with all that, but I will still take heart, iq, intangibles when he rates among one of the best defenders and shot blockers in college history. I probably view him more in the elite athlete category and have more optimism on his shooting coming around than you do though. But yes, it boils down to this not being a good draft at all.

I actually like Grant Williams too and would give him a good hard long look.

[Phnxsports]

Just me but I'm not sure where the Garland hypes coming from. I wouldn't touch him in the top 10

[bwgood77]

Garland is one of the few guys in this draft who has obvious All NBA upside along with Zion/Morant/Barrett. Being too skinny/small isn’t a legitimate concern for the PG position aside from extreme outliers like Ulis or IT. I’m not worried about his size at all. I’m all in on him at 6.* That said, I understand it’s a bit of a boom or bust pick.

*Assuming Culver is taken

Yeah, I feel good about Garland. Always want shooters (especially those who can do so off the dribble), and very few good shooters in this draft near the top.

[Crives]

So what if Garland declining the draft combine is Klutch trying to avoid PHX?

Maybe Lebron told Klutch the plan at 4
Cleveland already has pg at 5
So Klutch trying to avoid PHX taking him at 6?

[Crives]

Garland is one of the few guys in this draft who has obvious All NBA upside along with Zion/Morant/Barrett. Being too skinny/small isn’t a legitimate concern for the PG position aside from extreme outliers like Ulis or IT. I’m not worried about his size at all. I’m all in on him at 6.* That said, I understand it’s a bit of a boom or bust pick.

*Assuming Culver is taken

Yeah, I feel good about Garland. Always want shooters (especially those who can do so off the dribble), and very few good shooters in this draft near the top.

And even if Garlands not our starting pg of the future, feels like he would make a good 6th man.

[lilfishi22]

What I like about Clarke is that he is one of the better defensive guys in college history, and best shot blockers ever despite not having the measurables. What he has on a lot of these guys with more length is more heart, iq, athleticisim and timing. Just like I wouldn't knock Zion for his wingspan because he is an athletic freak, I feel similarly to Brandon Clarke, given the other options. Most of these guys like Culver and Hunter have some decent qualities (defense for Culver, 3 pt shooting for Hunter), they are just more wings with big flaws...normal guys that would get drafted in the teens. Now Clarke is probably a guy that normally goes in the teens, mainly due to the age and measurables, but you can't really measure the intangibles and heart a guy brings, but the elite defense, shot blocking and finishing would be welcome given our likely options.

I do like Garland. Not sure about White.

His athleticism and defensive IQ certainly helps made him one of the best defenders in college history. But the best defenders at the college level doesn't always translate in the NBA, especially if you don't have much offense outside of the restricted area. At the NBA level where guys are more athletic, bigger and on average has a higher offensive IQ than at the college level, I do think his below average size will become more of a factor. FWIW Zion has a 6'10ish wing span which isn't ideal for a big man but his unreal athleticism, strength, size (a good 80lbs heavier than Clarke) and of course defensive IQ helps even the odds. More importantly, what Zion is bringing to the NBA (size, strength and athleticism) would *still* put him in that elite tier for those 3 categories. Clarke's size isn't great, his strength isn't great, his wingspan is certainly below average and while he is very athletic, he may not necessarily be in that elite tier.

I'm not saying other alternatives aren't flawed either (quite frankly, I'd rather move the pick altogether) but just having come around on Clarke over the past 2 months or so and seeing his measurements now does bring back those initial questions I had of him. In a very weak draft I could certainly see him go in the top 10 but being a top 10 pick in a weak draft doesn't necessarily mean he has the usual top 10 pick upside. Given his age as well and the fact that he could still be a top 10 guy actually says more about the quality of the draft than it does his talent/projections.

I don't have much to say about Garland just because there's so little film of him. White I need to research a bit more. I'm probably less enthusiastic about looking in this draft than in previous drafts largely because I want to move this pick for a vet and also just because of how weak this draft is.

I agree with all that, but I will still take heart, iq, intangibles when he rates among one of the best defenders and shot blockers in college history. I probably view him more in the elite athlete category and have more optimism on his shooting coming around than you do though. But yes, it boils down to this not being a good draft at all.

I actually like Grant Williams too and would give him a good hard long look.

Heart and intangibles is hard to quantify even though I see it in action and while I agree that he seems to have loads of that, there are plenty of dirt workers in the NBA who have made a career of just having heart, intangibles and just generally being a smart basketball player but never become more than that. I'm not saying having those intangibles and smarts mean nothing but the NBA is still overwhelmingly an athletes game and having below average size, length and strength even with all the aforementioned intangibles, will still be a potentially limiting factor for him in the NBA. Had he been 19 or 20 with room to grow, I would be a lot more comfortable with his projections but at 23, you could say he's probably pretty close to his ceiling when it comes to adding size and strength.

Athletically, I think he's very athletic (I'm fine with considering him elite) but when you don't have the size and strength, it does mitigate a lot of what that athleticism normally brings. He does have an elite touch around the rim though but without some range, it's not worth a ton in my books. Yes, I'm a little more skeptical about his ability to develop a reliable J than you.

[Blonde]

So what if Garland declining the draft combine is Klutch trying to avoid PHX?

Maybe Lebron told Klutch the plan at 4
Cleveland already has pg at 5
So Klutch trying to avoid PHX taking him at 6?

Pretty sure James Jones has a good relationship with Klutch. It was Ryan McDonough that had issues with a number of Klutch clients and he’s long gone.

I also don’t subscribe to the idea of boycotting players based on agency affiliation, and I don’t think the agency does either for the most part. They want to get their players paid/drafted as high as possible and in a system where they’ll have a good future outlook. Phx is a much better outlook for a rookie PG than LAL where he’ll be trade bait his whole rookie contract.

[WeekapaugGroove]

So what if Garland declining the draft combine is Klutch trying to avoid PHX?

Maybe Lebron told Klutch the plan at 4
Cleveland already has pg at 5
So Klutch trying to avoid PHX taking him at 6?

Pretty sure James Jones has a good relationship with Klutch. It was Ryan McDonough that had issues with a number of Klutch clients and he’s long gone.

I also don’t subscribe to the idea of boycotting players based on agency affiliation, and I don’t think the agency does either for the most part. They want to get their players paid/drafted as high as possible and in a system where they’ll have a good future outlook. Phx is a much better outlook for a rookie PG than LAL where he’ll be trade bait his whole rookie contract.

This 100%... You can't just blacklist a whole **** agency especially one that is just going to continue to grow.

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[Blonde]

Just me but I'm not sure where the Garland hypes coming from. I wouldn't touch him in the top 10

It’s the allure of elite shooting off the dribble (most valuable skill in NBA right now) combined with advanced ball handling and ability to navigate the PnR. That, and he plays PG. He’s definitely lacking on defense and his playmaking for others is a big question mark. It’s a gamble I feel comfortable taking in this weak draft. There’s probably a star player hidden in this field and I’d rather try to identify who it is than play it safe and get a decent role player at best.

[nevetsov]

This early on, the promise has to be from the Lakers surely? LeBron is their GM and Rich Paul is the puppet master.

Their franchise is a dumpster fire right now, so it seems a lot more their character than ours to blow their load so prematurely over a questionable pick.

[Kerrsed]

Gambo said that he got a text message from a high ranking NBA guy saying him that the Suns is the team that has promised to Garland that we will pick him at #6.

Gambo added that he knows that we like Garland for sure.

As long as they are patient with him and bring in a vet to start for a year or two I'd be cool with this pick. The nice thing is as a shooter you can find him some minutes off the bench as an instant offense guy while he works on the rest of his game.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

They wouldn't promise a guy before working him out or giving him medical tests. That's ridiculous.

Well, since we dont have draft scouts, it makes perfect sense.

[The Box Office]

Just me but I'm not sure where the Garland hypes coming from. I wouldn't touch him in the top 10

I don't know either. I agree with you since I don't have Garland in my top 10 as well. I suppose we're in the minority.

[kennydorglas]

Like I said... this is Rich Paul being Rich Paul.
I'm calling his bluff. He's just forcing people to jump in the bandwagon and trade up for Garland.

He's the mystery box in this draft. If he played enough games he wouldnt be, so people will figure him out quite easily.

[bwgood77]

As long as they are patient with him and bring in a vet to start for a year or two I'd be cool with this pick. The nice thing is as a shooter you can find him some minutes off the bench as an instant offense guy while he works on the rest of his game.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

They wouldn't promise a guy before working him out or giving him medical tests. That's ridiculous.

Well, since we dont have draft scouts, it makes perfect sense.

We do, they just are not official, and they are in the process of hiring another one now.

[Blonde]

If there is a promise for Garland I would guess it’s Chicago. That seems like the absolute lowest he would drop anyway.