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2019 season speculation including trade ideas

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Will Booker make the all-star team this year?

Yes
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49%
No
39
51%
 
Total votes: 77

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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1841 » by GoodBehavior » Wed Dec 4, 2019 4:15 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
I agree, but they may think Saric fits better with our youth, team, and what we are looking for next to Ayton,.....



Oh our precious 'youth'. .

Me thinks too much emphasis is placed on some pseudo chronological cohesion. Seems like the successful teams do it the other way around. The ultimate goal should be to win games now. We've coddled enough kids. Get some F-n ballplayers.


There's no more youth movement. Booker, Oubre, Rubio, have been in the league long enough. Along with DA, that's your core going forward. DA is young, but everyone else on the roster is not core (Mikal, rookies, etc) and franklee-y, they're expendable.

I don't mind Saric, even though I am not a big fan of his (though his defense has been surprisingly good). He's not going to command much in the open market and you need these role players on the roster to round out the core.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1842 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 4, 2019 4:41 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
GREATEST FA CLASS OF ALL TIME!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: is that a Screamin A Smith hot take?
LeBron: 34y old now
George: 29y old now, no shoulders
Dame: 29y old now, small guard
Derozan: 30y old now
Russ: 31y old now
Hayward: 29y old now, serious injury history already


Love is 31 now.... and he will likely be available this season. You want to wait to sign one of these guys to a 'Wall-ish' deal ? Our cap space / roster is set up to add a big ticket player this yr via trade. No point in thinking we will be in the FA market next season. Add Love for TJo and all we have to do is sign Baynes. We can go right up to the Lux tax to do so. The rest of this core is in place.


I get what you're saying man. But my counter argument to the previous reply was in that he was disputing the validity of the 2021 free agency being considered to be one of the greatest ever based upon only presenting a select few players from the bottom end of the list. And was using age, often 29 and 30 year old players who happen to be All stars, All NBA players, and max level players as a disqualifying factor. Now I agree that Love would likely be available. However, As good as he is, His contract is very scary and to be honest, not something I'd consider due to it's size and length, With consideration to BOTH Aytons' and Bridge's extensions upcoming. We'd then be handcuffed between his big contract, and that of Booker's and Aytons' likely as well. Leaving us very little room to improve at all over the next 3-4 years.

And should he suffer another injury, Then what? He won't have much if any trade value and we won't have any cap space to work with. So whilst he MAY become available, I'm adverse to his contract and injury history( hands, knees, etc.) Again, despite being really fond of his rebounding , three point shooting, and current level of production. Also, I wouldn't prefer to sign any of these players to a John Wall type deal if at all possible. I'd prefer to get them at the best available negotiated price we could. Maybe we could sign one of them to say a 2-3 year deal if we were so moved I believe. And that is kind of the direction that the league is heading anyways right? Really, there's nothing wrong with waiting till 2021 as we'd then have a much broader range of options, and by then, We'd actually know what we'd have in Booker and Ayton and our core before making any more long term contract decisions. I get that we should use Johnson's expiring IF possible before it just expires, but honestly, in what trade and for who without giving up more assets in adfition, or drastically altering our roster before we even see them together at full strength?

Also, I'd be somewhat leery of what Cleveland would expect in return for love too. If we just wait till 2021, By then Love ( expiring in 2023) would only be a two year risk IF we'd even still have interest. So if he once again went down with another injury, hed be less of a long term handicap for us.

But I do understand why you percieve him to be of optimal value for us currently. As he'd definitely help.us MAYBE make it into the playoffs. Again, it's just his huge contract, it's length and his injury history that gives me pause man. Having said that, I don't want to wait to make the playoffs either! But I'm just trying to remain patient a little bit longer, And not possibly make a decision that could possibly handcuff our team financially for another 3 years in interest of possible short term gains. In the end , I guess we'll see what the front office has planned. But I do want us to get imminently better however possible.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1843 » by oddity » Wed Dec 4, 2019 5:05 pm

Love can't play defense tho...
Living off borrowed time the clock ticks faster...
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1844 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Dec 4, 2019 5:18 pm

oddity wrote:Love can't play defense tho...


Tell that to Steph Curry! :lol:
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1845 » by Bogyo » Wed Dec 4, 2019 6:16 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:Lol......If you notice the link and the name under his initial statement, You'll see that it's not my personal opinion stating it's The unequivocal "Best of all time" And you are of course entitled to your opinion. But I will say that given our current roster, record, and talent level ( sans Booker and Ayton) I'd happily take the majority of players on that list to add to our core in an effort to try and foster dramatic improvement man. As for the cherry picking the lower producing names on that list, No one is saying that any of those are specific or required targets of course.....lol. And to be fair, as with any accurate list, leaving off the lower scale talent just to embellish a point would be kind of disingenuous don't you think.

But honestly, apart from personal preference, Can you seriously tell me that IF given the chance, You wouldn't add any of these particular players with respect to their abilities and/or high end talent:

Lebron James-

*** Disclaimer, Now if you know me at all, Then you know that I HATE Lebron James vehemently. And have even given him the nickname of " Le Douche." But that still doesn't change the fact that he's still even at his current age widely considered one of, If not the best player still in the league. He's still a 3 time NBAchampion, a 3 time finals MVP, a 4 time NBA MVP, A 15 time All star, A 12 time ALL NBA first team, A 5 time ALL NBA first defensive team.The list just keeps going honestly, And he's also helping to lead the Flakers team to the best record in the west. Also, he's always a draw for other big name players too. But you're right, he's old, and shouldn't be considered.

Paul George-

Are you seriously saying you'd deny adding Paul George to our team due to being 29? Again, one of the top players in the league currently, a 6 time time All star, A 4 time ALL NBA third team, A two time ALL NBA defensive team, 2 time ALL NBA 2nd defensive team, And just last season was the league steals leader. He's also helping to lead his team to one of the top records in the really tough, brutal Western Conference. And currently, which of our players on our roster would currently be better than him as it is? But we again would automatically disqualify him because 29 is too old? Yet a lot of us are discussing players such as Kevin Love ( 31) , Blake Griffin ( 30) etc. :lol:

Damian Lillard-

C'mon man honestly??? I love me some Rubio. But you really wouldn't take Damian Lillard because your opposing argument is again that he's too old at age 29? Isn't he still a 4 time All star, 2nd team All NBA, Was rookie of the year and considered by many to be nearly unstoppable one on one? He's also still producing at a really high level. And he's been leading his team to the playoffs repeatedly too still. When was the last time that anyone led our team to the playoffs again??? But yes, let's take solace in the knowledge that at least were not old at 29. Because that's definitely the determining factor for us.

Demarr Derozan-

Surely Not one of the players to garner the highest level of interest, but even at 30, He's still a multiple time All star, 2 time All NBA, A team USA contributor and still a highly productive 20 point per game scorer. He's also still considered by many to be a high end talent, also many I believe would argue even quite a bit better than what we currently have on our roster at the small forward/ power forward position.

Russell Westbrook-

Again the age is the factor of course, Yet how is he producing again. How dominant is he still ( even at 31 yrs old) He's a multi time All star that has consistently helped whatever team that he's played for into the playoffs, averages a ridiculous numbers in terms of the amount of triple doubles he produces, has been an MVP level player repeatedly and even now, again at age 31 :o is helping to lead the rockets to one of the best records in the Western Conference.Having him on your roster almost guarantees you'll be in the playoffs. But we can't take him because he's 31.

Gordon Hayward-

Probably your most solid argument at his current pricetag and with his recent injury. However, once again at 29 he's still an All star level player who is highly productive, very versatile at 6'8 and is a very good shooter who hits big shots and has put up numbers such as 18 points 7 rebounds/ 4 assists. Also, prior to his injury, he helped the Celtics to one of their best records last season I think it was? Other than Booker, Who currently on our roster can/ has consistently his recent production consistently? And again, he likely wouldn't be at his current pricetag again, especially coming back from an injury.

Restricted:

I'll agree that the names you specifically selected from that list are definitely not going to be high on anyone's wishlists, However, Cherry picking only certain names from the list again for sake of argument, is not something that I'm a fan of as I just find it disingenuous personally. And doesn't give an accurate portrayal of the overall value of the list. So let's review a few names omitted from my original post. First with respect to the restricted list.


-Donovan Mitchell.
-Jason Tatum.
-Lonzo Ball.
Lauri Markannen.
De' Aaron Fox.

Are any of those players who were omitted, Players that you feel personally would not help us drastically improve given our current roster, or that you wouldn't add to our core IF given the chance honestly man? Again, how many players currently on our roster would be widely considered better or have higher value?

Who would you honestly prefer to go with instead? Either by way of Johnson's expiring, theough trade, Or cap space in general?

And finally with respect to the unrestricted names left off from the list: ( Not many, But still important).

-Anthony Davis.
-Giannis Antetekounmpo.
- Bradley Beal.
- Rudy Gobert.

Who here wouldn't sign any of those players in a heartbeat IF they had the chance AND were available? Which one of those players wouldn't improve our current roster immensely. So with respect to that, I do apologize if the ( Reddit poster's) statement did seem somewhat blown out of porportion man. But in all honesty, When was the last time that you had an actual free agency with this many max level all star cornerstone players all becoming free agents at the same time? On top of that, a draft so loaded due to the rule changes also allowing high school players to be eligible as well. Essentially creating a double draft of sorts. Now in fairness I do agree with your opinion on Josh Jackson, Frank Nitkilinia, and Abdel Nader. But let's be honest in that the " Best ever" reference wasn't built around those players primarily as I'm sure that you're aware. So Yes, I will stand by the assertion that the 2021 nba free agency is widely considered to be one of IF not the greatest free agency ever. And the overall majority consensus would only strengthen that opinion I believe man.

But your always free to disagree. :D


Noooo, I wasn't singling you out at all! I saw that the original post wasn't yours, and I know your posts, they are better than this, I and1 them from time to time. :wink: I just said that it's not a really good post, becouse the 2/3rd of the guys on that list are either irrelevant, or will be by the time we get to 2021 free agency. Especially after then, the next season which will finish in 2022. That's why I was scoffing at guys who are 29/30 year olds NOW. Imagine the guys I put up there 2-3-4-5-6 years from now - if you want to give them a big contract in the 2021 BIGGESTFREEEEAAAAGENCYYYYOFALLLTIME :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd take the rest in a heartbeat in 2021, no doubt about it, no questions asked based on my present knowledge.

But I also think you take a hard pass on pretty much all of the guys I listed up there in the 2021 free agency if they want the last big contract, like they will. Let some other team give them the CP contract.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1846 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 4, 2019 6:42 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
I agree, but they may think Saric fits better with our youth, team, and what we are looking for next to Ayton,.....



Oh our precious 'youth'. .

Me thinks too much emphasis is placed on some pseudo chronological cohesion. Seems like the successful teams do it the other way around. The ultimate goal should be to win games now. We've coddled enough kids. Get some F-n ballplayers.


We've coddled enough G league level players and raw 1 and doners. We have guys with NBA experience now, outside of Cam and Jerome.

But those teams that gave up assets to get overpaid older guys like Blake and Love are not doing so well right now, so they are paying these guys a boatload of money, are lottery teams, and are kind of stuck with bloated contracts. They have spent a lot of time injured as well. Sure Love worked with LeBron, but we don't have that kind of player and Blake worked with Paul when they were both healthy, but that's when they were in their primes. Aldridge's team not going anywhere either now without Kawhi. I'd be ok with Aldridge due to what I've said before, and I wanted Love 5 years ago, but not so much now.

I don't want Monty's time stuck with vastly declining injury prone players making $30 million a year as we continue to end up in 9th or 10th and can't make any more moves to improve the team for years and wasting his coaching tenure.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1847 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 4, 2019 6:46 pm

Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Bogyo wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Just a quick reminder of how insanely good the 2021 free agency looks to possibly be.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8vkzz5/the_summer_of_2021_will_feature_the_greatest_free/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

The summer of 2021 will feature the greatest Free Agent class in NBA history

u/MarcusNotSmart1y

The summer of 2021 will feature arguably the greatest Free Agent class of all time

Unrestricted Free Agents: :o :o :o

Lebron James.
Giannis Antetekounmpo.
Anthony Davis.
Paul George.
Damian Lillard.
Demar Derozan.
Russell Westbrook.
Rudy Gobert.
Gordon Hayward.
Bradley Beal.

Restricted free agents:

Donovan Mitchell.
Jason Tatum.
Lonzo Ball.
Markelle Fultz.
Josh Jackson.
Dennis Smith Jr.
Lauri Markannen.
Abdel Nader.
De' Aaron Fox.
Frank Ntilikina.


Lebron/PG have player options for the 2022 seasons and will likely opt out so it’s fair to see them as FA of the 2021 season.

*** Also, this will be the first draft where high schoolers will be allowed to be drafted.

So I'm fine with adding a player or players for additional roster depth, insurance against further injuries, etc. As long as it doesn't inhibit our free agency and/or draft plans and csp space heading into 2021 free agency. :nod: Again, high value contributors on small one to two year deals tops. Also with focus on the importance of both Aytons' and Bridges upcoming extensions looming.


GREATEST FA CLASS OF ALL TIME!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: is that a Screamin A Smith hot take?
LeBron: 34y old now
George: 29y old now, no shoulders
Dame: 29y old now, small guard
Derozan: 30y old now
Russ: 31y old now
Hayward: 29y old now, serious injury history already

Restricted:
JJ - already out of the league
DSJ - on his way out
Ntilinka - same
Nader - who the F is that?

Sure, let's build on these guys... C'mon, man this board is better than this.


Lol......If you notice the link and the name under his initial statement, You'll see that it's not my personal opinion stating it's The unequivocal "Best of all time" And you are of course entitled to your opinion. But I will say that given our current roster, record, and talent level ( sans Booker and Ayton) I'd happily take the majority of players on that list to add to our core in an effort to try and foster dramatic improvement man. As for the cherry picking the lower producing names on that list, No one is saying that any of those are specific or required targets of course.....lol. And to be fair, as with any accurate list, leaving off the lower scale talent just to embellish a point would be kind of disingenuous don't you think.

But honestly, apart from personal preference, Can you seriously tell me that IF given the chance, You wouldn't add any of these particular players with respect to their abilities and/or high end talent:

Lebron James-

*** Disclaimer, Now if you know me at all, Then you know that I HATE Lebron James vehemently. And have even given him the nickname of " Le Douche." But that still doesn't change the fact that he's still even at his current age widely considered one of, If not the best player still in the league. He's still a 3 time NBAchampion, a 3 time finals MVP, a 4 time NBA MVP, A 15 time All star, A 12 time ALL NBA first team, A 5 time ALL NBA first defensive team.The list just keeps going honestly, And he's also helping to lead the Flakers team to the best record in the west. Also, he's always a draw for other big name players too. But you're right, he's old, and shouldn't be considered.

Paul George-

Are you seriously saying you'd deny adding Paul George to our team due to being 29? Again, one of the top players in the league currently, a 6 time time All star, A 4 time ALL NBA third team, A two time ALL NBA defensive team, 2 time ALL NBA 2nd defensive team, And just last season was the league steals leader. He's also helping to lead his team to one of the top records in the really tough, brutal Western Conference. And currently, which of our players on our roster would currently be better than him as it is? But we again would automatically disqualify him because 29 is too old? Yet a lot of us are discussing players such as Kevin Love ( 31) , Blake Griffin ( 30) etc. :lol:

Damian Lillard-

C'mon man honestly??? I love me some Rubio. But you really wouldn't take Damian Lillard because your opposing argument is again that he's too old at age 29? Isn't he still a 4 time All star, 2nd team All NBA, Was rookie of the year and considered by many to be nearly unstoppable one on one? He's also still producing at a really high level. And he's been leading his team to the playoffs repeatedly too still. When was the last time that anyone led our team to the playoffs again??? But yes, let's take solace in the knowledge that at least were not old at 29. Because that's definitely the determining factor for us.

Demarr Derozan-

Surely Not one of the players to garner the highest level of interest, but even at 30, He's still a multiple time All star, 2 time All NBA, A team USA contributor and still a highly productive 20 point per game scorer. He's also still considered by many to be a high end talent, also many I believe would argue even quite a bit better than what we currently have on our roster at the small forward/ power forward position.

Russell Westbrook-

Again the age is the factor of course, Yet how is he producing again. How dominant is he still ( even at 31 yrs old) He's a multi time All star that has consistently helped whatever team that he's played for into the playoffs, averages a ridiculous numbers in terms of the amount of triple doubles he produces, has been an MVP level player repeatedly and even now, again at age 31 :o is helping to lead the rockets to one of the best records in the Western Conference.Having him on your roster almost guarantees you'll be in the playoffs. But we can't take him because he's 31.

Gordon Hayward-

Probably your most solid argument at his current pricetag and with his recent injury. However, once again at 29 he's still an All star level player who is highly productive, very versatile at 6'8 and is a very good shooter who hits big shots and has put up numbers such as 18 points 7 rebounds/ 4 assists. Also, prior to his injury, he helped the Celtics to one of their best records last season I think it was? Other than Booker, Who currently on our roster can/ has consistently his recent production consistently? And again, he likely wouldn't be at his current pricetag again, especially coming back from an injury.

Restricted:

I'll agree that the names you specifically selected from that list are definitely not going to be high on anyone's wishlists, However, Cherry picking only certain names from the list again for sake of argument, is not something that I'm a fan of as I just find it disingenuous personally. And doesn't give an accurate portrayal of the overall value of the list. So let's review a few names omitted from my original post. First with respect to the restricted list.


-Donovan Mitchell.
-Jason Tatum.
-Lonzo Ball.
Lauri Markannen.
De' Aaron Fox.

Are any of those players who were omitted, Players that you feel personally would not help us drastically improve given our current roster, or that you wouldn't add to our core IF given the chance honestly man? Again, how many players currently on our roster would be widely considered better or have higher value?

Who would you honestly prefer to go with instead? Either by way of Johnson's expiring, theough trade, Or cap space in general?

And finally with respect to the unrestricted names left off from the list: ( Not many, But still important).

-Anthony Davis.
-Giannis Antetekounmpo.
- Bradley Beal.
- Rudy Gobert.

Who here wouldn't sign any of those players in a heartbeat IF they had the chance AND were available? Which one of those players wouldn't improve our current roster immensely. So with respect to that, I do apologize if the ( Reddit poster's) statement did seem somewhat blown out of porportion man. But in all honesty, When was the last time that you had an actual free agency with this many max level all star cornerstone players all becoming free agents at the same time? On top of that, a draft so loaded due to the rule changes also allowing high school players to be eligible as well. Essentially creating a double draft of sorts. Now in fairness I do agree with your opinion on Josh Jackson, Frank Nitkilinia, and Abdel Nader. But let's be honest in that the " Best ever" reference wasn't built around those players primarily as I'm sure that you're aware. So Yes, I will stand by the assertion that the 2021 nba free agency is widely considered to be one of IF not the greatest free agency ever. And the overall majority consensus would only strengthen that opinion I believe man.

But your always free to disagree. :D


I agree it has to be one of the better FA classes of all time. LeBron, AD, Giannis alone put it up there. Add guys like Beal, Gobert, Lillard and Hayward has to REALLY put it up there. I don't remember many better ones.

Personally I think if we had a slim chance to get one, it would be AD, due to his relationship with Monty (the recent Monty article was very interesting to read about that)...though if he goes deep into the playoffs with LeBron a couple years, I am not sure he would want to leave barring a massive LeBron regression (which is certainly possible).
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1848 » by Dual » Wed Dec 4, 2019 6:56 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Bogyo wrote:
GREATEST FA CLASS OF ALL TIME!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: is that a Screamin A Smith hot take?
LeBron: 34y old now
George: 29y old now, no shoulders
Dame: 29y old now, small guard
Derozan: 30y old now
Russ: 31y old now
Hayward: 29y old now, serious injury history already

Restricted:
JJ - already out of the league
DSJ - on his way out
Ntilinka - same
Nader - who the F is that?

Sure, let's build on these guys... C'mon, man this board is better than this.


Lol......If you notice the link and the name under his initial statement, You'll see that it's not my personal opinion stating it's The unequivocal "Best of all time" And you are of course entitled to your opinion. But I will say that given our current roster, record, and talent level ( sans Booker and Ayton) I'd happily take the majority of players on that list to add to our core in an effort to try and foster dramatic improvement man. As for the cherry picking the lower producing names on that list, No one is saying that any of those are specific or required targets of course.....lol. And to be fair, as with any accurate list, leaving off the lower scale talent just to embellish a point would be kind of disingenuous don't you think.

But honestly, apart from personal preference, Can you seriously tell me that IF given the chance, You wouldn't add any of these particular players with respect to their abilities and/or high end talent:

Lebron James-

*** Disclaimer, Now if you know me at all, Then you know that I HATE Lebron James vehemently. And have even given him the nickname of " Le Douche." But that still doesn't change the fact that he's still even at his current age widely considered one of, If not the best player still in the league. He's still a 3 time NBAchampion, a 3 time finals MVP, a 4 time NBA MVP, A 15 time All star, A 12 time ALL NBA first team, A 5 time ALL NBA first defensive team.The list just keeps going honestly, And he's also helping to lead the Flakers team to the best record in the west. Also, he's always a draw for other big name players too. But you're right, he's old, and shouldn't be considered.

Paul George-

Are you seriously saying you'd deny adding Paul George to our team due to being 29? Again, one of the top players in the league currently, a 6 time time All star, A 4 time ALL NBA third team, A two time ALL NBA defensive team, 2 time ALL NBA 2nd defensive team, And just last season was the league steals leader. He's also helping to lead his team to one of the top records in the really tough, brutal Western Conference. And currently, which of our players on our roster would currently be better than him as it is? But we again would automatically disqualify him because 29 is too old? Yet a lot of us are discussing players such as Kevin Love ( 31) , Blake Griffin ( 30) etc. :lol:

Damian Lillard-

C'mon man honestly??? I love me some Rubio. But you really wouldn't take Damian Lillard because your opposing argument is again that he's too old at age 29? Isn't he still a 4 time All star, 2nd team All NBA, Was rookie of the year and considered by many to be nearly unstoppable one on one? He's also still producing at a really high level. And he's been leading his team to the playoffs repeatedly too still. When was the last time that anyone led our team to the playoffs again??? But yes, let's take solace in the knowledge that at least were not old at 29. Because that's definitely the determining factor for us.

Demarr Derozan-

Surely Not one of the players to garner the highest level of interest, but even at 30, He's still a multiple time All star, 2 time All NBA, A team USA contributor and still a highly productive 20 point per game scorer. He's also still considered by many to be a high end talent, also many I believe would argue even quite a bit better than what we currently have on our roster at the small forward/ power forward position.

Russell Westbrook-

Again the age is the factor of course, Yet how is he producing again. How dominant is he still ( even at 31 yrs old) He's a multi time All star that has consistently helped whatever team that he's played for into the playoffs, averages a ridiculous numbers in terms of the amount of triple doubles he produces, has been an MVP level player repeatedly and even now, again at age 31 :o is helping to lead the rockets to one of the best records in the Western Conference.Having him on your roster almost guarantees you'll be in the playoffs. But we can't take him because he's 31.

Gordon Hayward-

Probably your most solid argument at his current pricetag and with his recent injury. However, once again at 29 he's still an All star level player who is highly productive, very versatile at 6'8 and is a very good shooter who hits big shots and has put up numbers such as 18 points 7 rebounds/ 4 assists. Also, prior to his injury, he helped the Celtics to one of their best records last season I think it was? Other than Booker, Who currently on our roster can/ has consistently his recent production consistently? And again, he likely wouldn't be at his current pricetag again, especially coming back from an injury.

Restricted:

I'll agree that the names you specifically selected from that list are definitely not going to be high on anyone's wishlists, However, Cherry picking only certain names from the list again for sake of argument, is not something that I'm a fan of as I just find it disingenuous personally. And doesn't give an accurate portrayal of the overall value of the list. So let's review a few names omitted from my original post. First with respect to the restricted list.


-Donovan Mitchell.
-Jason Tatum.
-Lonzo Ball.
Lauri Markannen.
De' Aaron Fox.

Are any of those players who were omitted, Players that you feel personally would not help us drastically improve given our current roster, or that you wouldn't add to our core IF given the chance honestly man? Again, how many players currently on our roster would be widely considered better or have higher value?

Who would you honestly prefer to go with instead? Either by way of Johnson's expiring, theough trade, Or cap space in general?

And finally with respect to the unrestricted names left off from the list: ( Not many, But still important).

-Anthony Davis.
-Giannis Antetekounmpo.
- Bradley Beal.
- Rudy Gobert.

Who here wouldn't sign any of those players in a heartbeat IF they had the chance AND were available? Which one of those players wouldn't improve our current roster immensely. So with respect to that, I do apologize if the ( Reddit poster's) statement did seem somewhat blown out of porportion man. But in all honesty, When was the last time that you had an actual free agency with this many max level all star cornerstone players all becoming free agents at the same time? On top of that, a draft so loaded due to the rule changes also allowing high school players to be eligible as well. Essentially creating a double draft of sorts. Now in fairness I do agree with your opinion on Josh Jackson, Frank Nitkilinia, and Abdel Nader. But let's be honest in that the " Best ever" reference wasn't built around those players primarily as I'm sure that you're aware. So Yes, I will stand by the assertion that the 2021 nba free agency is widely considered to be one of IF not the greatest free agency ever. And the overall majority consensus would only strengthen that opinion I believe man.

But your always free to disagree. :D


I agree it has to be one of the better FA classes of all time. LeBron, AD, Giannis alone put it up there. Add guys like Beal, Gobert, Lillard and Hayward has to REALLY put it up there. I don't remember many better ones.

Personally I think if we had a slim chance to get one, it would be AD, due to his relationship with Monty (the recent Monty article was very interesting to read about that)...though if he goes deep into the playoffs with LeBron a couple years, I am not sure he would want to leave barring a massive LeBron regression (which is certainly possible).

If we get AD it would be a homerun. He is the real Unicorn. Incredible in every facet of the game.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1849 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Dec 4, 2019 7:35 pm

Dual wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Lol......If you notice the link and the name under his initial statement, You'll see that it's not my personal opinion stating it's The unequivocal "Best of all time" And you are of course entitled to your opinion. But I will say that given our current roster, record, and talent level ( sans Booker and Ayton) I'd happily take the majority of players on that list to add to our core in an effort to try and foster dramatic improvement man. As for the cherry picking the lower producing names on that list, No one is saying that any of those are specific or required targets of course.....lol. And to be fair, as with any accurate list, leaving off the lower scale talent just to embellish a point would be kind of disingenuous don't you think.

But honestly, apart from personal preference, Can you seriously tell me that IF given the chance, You wouldn't add any of these particular players with respect to their abilities and/or high end talent:

Lebron James-

*** Disclaimer, Now if you know me at all, Then you know that I HATE Lebron James vehemently. And have even given him the nickname of " Le Douche." But that still doesn't change the fact that he's still even at his current age widely considered one of, If not the best player still in the league. He's still a 3 time NBAchampion, a 3 time finals MVP, a 4 time NBA MVP, A 15 time All star, A 12 time ALL NBA first team, A 5 time ALL NBA first defensive team.The list just keeps going honestly, And he's also helping to lead the Flakers team to the best record in the west. Also, he's always a draw for other big name players too. But you're right, he's old, and shouldn't be considered.

Paul George-

Are you seriously saying you'd deny adding Paul George to our team due to being 29? Again, one of the top players in the league currently, a 6 time time All star, A 4 time ALL NBA third team, A two time ALL NBA defensive team, 2 time ALL NBA 2nd defensive team, And just last season was the league steals leader. He's also helping to lead his team to one of the top records in the really tough, brutal Western Conference. And currently, which of our players on our roster would currently be better than him as it is? But we again would automatically disqualify him because 29 is too old? Yet a lot of us are discussing players such as Kevin Love ( 31) , Blake Griffin ( 30) etc. :lol:

Damian Lillard-

C'mon man honestly??? I love me some Rubio. But you really wouldn't take Damian Lillard because your opposing argument is again that he's too old at age 29? Isn't he still a 4 time All star, 2nd team All NBA, Was rookie of the year and considered by many to be nearly unstoppable one on one? He's also still producing at a really high level. And he's been leading his team to the playoffs repeatedly too still. When was the last time that anyone led our team to the playoffs again??? But yes, let's take solace in the knowledge that at least were not old at 29. Because that's definitely the determining factor for us.

Demarr Derozan-

Surely Not one of the players to garner the highest level of interest, but even at 30, He's still a multiple time All star, 2 time All NBA, A team USA contributor and still a highly productive 20 point per game scorer. He's also still considered by many to be a high end talent, also many I believe would argue even quite a bit better than what we currently have on our roster at the small forward/ power forward position.

Russell Westbrook-

Again the age is the factor of course, Yet how is he producing again. How dominant is he still ( even at 31 yrs old) He's a multi time All star that has consistently helped whatever team that he's played for into the playoffs, averages a ridiculous numbers in terms of the amount of triple doubles he produces, has been an MVP level player repeatedly and even now, again at age 31 :o is helping to lead the rockets to one of the best records in the Western Conference.Having him on your roster almost guarantees you'll be in the playoffs. But we can't take him because he's 31.

Gordon Hayward-

Probably your most solid argument at his current pricetag and with his recent injury. However, once again at 29 he's still an All star level player who is highly productive, very versatile at 6'8 and is a very good shooter who hits big shots and has put up numbers such as 18 points 7 rebounds/ 4 assists. Also, prior to his injury, he helped the Celtics to one of their best records last season I think it was? Other than Booker, Who currently on our roster can/ has consistently his recent production consistently? And again, he likely wouldn't be at his current pricetag again, especially coming back from an injury.

Restricted:

I'll agree that the names you specifically selected from that list are definitely not going to be high on anyone's wishlists, However, Cherry picking only certain names from the list again for sake of argument, is not something that I'm a fan of as I just find it disingenuous personally. And doesn't give an accurate portrayal of the overall value of the list. So let's review a few names omitted from my original post. First with respect to the restricted list.


-Donovan Mitchell.
-Jason Tatum.
-Lonzo Ball.
Lauri Markannen.
De' Aaron Fox.

Are any of those players who were omitted, Players that you feel personally would not help us drastically improve given our current roster, or that you wouldn't add to our core IF given the chance honestly man? Again, how many players currently on our roster would be widely considered better or have higher value?

Who would you honestly prefer to go with instead? Either by way of Johnson's expiring, theough trade, Or cap space in general?

And finally with respect to the unrestricted names left off from the list: ( Not many, But still important).

-Anthony Davis.
-Giannis Antetekounmpo.
- Bradley Beal.
- Rudy Gobert.

Who here wouldn't sign any of those players in a heartbeat IF they had the chance AND were available? Which one of those players wouldn't improve our current roster immensely. So with respect to that, I do apologize if the ( Reddit poster's) statement did seem somewhat blown out of porportion man. But in all honesty, When was the last time that you had an actual free agency with this many max level all star cornerstone players all becoming free agents at the same time? On top of that, a draft so loaded due to the rule changes also allowing high school players to be eligible as well. Essentially creating a double draft of sorts. Now in fairness I do agree with your opinion on Josh Jackson, Frank Nitkilinia, and Abdel Nader. But let's be honest in that the " Best ever" reference wasn't built around those players primarily as I'm sure that you're aware. So Yes, I will stand by the assertion that the 2021 nba free agency is widely considered to be one of IF not the greatest free agency ever. And the overall majority consensus would only strengthen that opinion I believe man.

But your always free to disagree. :D


I agree it has to be one of the better FA classes of all time. LeBron, AD, Giannis alone put it up there. Add guys like Beal, Gobert, Lillard and Hayward has to REALLY put it up there. I don't remember many better ones.

Personally I think if we had a slim chance to get one, it would be AD, due to his relationship with Monty (the recent Monty article was very interesting to read about that)...though if he goes deep into the playoffs with LeBron a couple years, I am not sure he would want to leave barring a massive LeBron regression (which is certainly possible).

If we get AD it would be a homerun. He is the real Unicorn. Incredible in every facet of the game.


I might be just as happy with Lillard in FA as Davis, especially considering injury histories. A truly incredible basketball player. But in addition to the advantage we have in Monty in re recruiting AD, you also have to think AD would be pretty happy playing next to Ayton, since AD has repeatedly stated his desire to play the 4.

You have to think Plan A is to grab one of those top FAs in 2021. It's the most straightforward path to collecting three superstars.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1850 » by Blonde » Wed Dec 4, 2019 7:45 pm

Lillard and Beal signed max contract extensions within the last few months so they won’t be free agents in 2021 anymore. Those were the main guys I was interested in along with Jrue but idk how strong I feel about him either anymore. The best thing we can do is make the playoffs the next 2 years and MAYBE one of those other superstars in 2021 is interested but probably we’ll have to make improvements through trade/internal development/draft (lol).
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1851 » by Ghost of Kleine » Wed Dec 4, 2019 8:09 pm

Bogyo wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:Lol......If you notice the link and the name under his initial statement, You'll see that it's not my personal opinion stating it's The unequivocal "Best of all time" And you are of course entitled to your opinion. But I will say that given our current roster, record, and talent level ( sans Booker and Ayton) I'd happily take the majority of players on that list to add to our core in an effort to try and foster dramatic improvement man. As for the cherry picking the lower producing names on that list, No one is saying that any of those are specific or required targets of course.....lol. And to be fair, as with any accurate list, leaving off the lower scale talent just to embellish a point would be kind of disingenuous don't you think.

But honestly, apart from personal preference, Can you seriously tell me that IF given the chance, You wouldn't add any of these particular players with respect to their abilities and/or high end talent:

Lebron James-

*** Disclaimer, Now if you know me at all, Then you know that I HATE Lebron James vehemently. And have even given him the nickname of " Le Douche." But that still doesn't change the fact that he's still even at his current age widely considered one of, If not the best player still in the league. He's still a 3 time NBAchampion, a 3 time finals MVP, a 4 time NBA MVP, A 15 time All star, A 12 time ALL NBA first team, A 5 time ALL NBA first defensive team.The list just keeps going honestly, And he's also helping to lead the Flakers team to the best record in the west. Also, he's always a draw for other big name players too. But you're right, he's old, and shouldn't be considered.

Paul George-

Are you seriously saying you'd deny adding Paul George to our team due to being 29? Again, one of the top players in the league currently, a 6 time time All star, A 4 time ALL NBA third team, A two time ALL NBA defensive team, 2 time ALL NBA 2nd defensive team, And just last season was the league steals leader. He's also helping to lead his team to one of the top records in the really tough, brutal Western Conference. And currently, which of our players on our roster would currently be better than him as it is? But we again would automatically disqualify him because 29 is too old? Yet a lot of us are discussing players such as Kevin Love ( 31) , Blake Griffin ( 30) etc. :lol:

Damian Lillard-

C'mon man honestly??? I love me some Rubio. But you really wouldn't take Damian Lillard because your opposing argument is again that he's too old at age 29? Isn't he still a 4 time All star, 2nd team All NBA, Was rookie of the year and considered by many to be nearly unstoppable one on one? He's also still producing at a really high level. And he's been leading his team to the playoffs repeatedly too still. When was the last time that anyone led our team to the playoffs again??? But yes, let's take solace in the knowledge that at least were not old at 29. Because that's definitely the determining factor for us.

Demarr Derozan-

Surely Not one of the players to garner the highest level of interest, but even at 30, He's still a multiple time All star, 2 time All NBA, A team USA contributor and still a highly productive 20 point per game scorer. He's also still considered by many to be a high end talent, also many I believe would argue even quite a bit better than what we currently have on our roster at the small forward/ power forward position.

Russell Westbrook-

Again the age is the factor of course, Yet how is he producing again. How dominant is he still ( even at 31 yrs old) He's a multi time All star that has consistently helped whatever team that he's played for into the playoffs, averages a ridiculous numbers in terms of the amount of triple doubles he produces, has been an MVP level player repeatedly and even now, again at age 31 :o is helping to lead the rockets to one of the best records in the Western Conference.Having him on your roster almost guarantees you'll be in the playoffs. But we can't take him because he's 31.

Gordon Hayward-

Probably your most solid argument at his current pricetag and with his recent injury. However, once again at 29 he's still an All star level player who is highly productive, very versatile at 6'8 and is a very good shooter who hits big shots and has put up numbers such as 18 points 7 rebounds/ 4 assists. Also, prior to his injury, he helped the Celtics to one of their best records last season I think it was? Other than Booker, Who currently on our roster can/ has consistently his recent production consistently? And again, he likely wouldn't be at his current pricetag again, especially coming back from an injury.

Restricted:

I'll agree that the names you specifically selected from that list are definitely not going to be high on anyone's wishlists, However, Cherry picking only certain names from the list again for sake of argument, is not something that I'm a fan of as I just find it disingenuous personally. And doesn't give an accurate portrayal of the overall value of the list. So let's review a few names omitted from my original post. First with respect to the restricted list.


-Donovan Mitchell.
-Jason Tatum.
-Lonzo Ball.
Lauri Markannen.
De' Aaron Fox.

Are any of those players who were omitted, Players that you feel personally would not help us drastically improve given our current roster, or that you wouldn't add to our core IF given the chance honestly man? Again, how many players currently on our roster would be widely considered better or have higher value?

Who would you honestly prefer to go with instead? Either by way of Johnson's expiring, theough trade, Or cap space in general?

And finally with respect to the unrestricted names left off from the list: ( Not many, But still important).

-Anthony Davis.
-Giannis Antetekounmpo.
- Bradley Beal.
- Rudy Gobert.

Who here wouldn't sign any of those players in a heartbeat IF they had the chance AND were available? Which one of those players wouldn't improve our current roster immensely. So with respect to that, I do apologize if the ( Reddit poster's) statement did seem somewhat blown out of porportion man. But in all honesty, When was the last time that you had an actual free agency with this many max level all star cornerstone players all becoming free agents at the same time? On top of that, a draft so loaded due to the rule changes also allowing high school players to be eligible as well. Essentially creating a double draft of sorts. Now in fairness I do agree with your opinion on Josh Jackson, Frank Nitkilinia, and Abdel Nader. But let's be honest in that the " Best ever" reference wasn't built around those players primarily as I'm sure that you're aware. So Yes, I will stand by the assertion that the 2021 nba free agency is widely considered to be one of IF not the greatest free agency ever. And the overall majority consensus would only strengthen that opinion I believe man.

But your always free to disagree. :D


Noooo, I wasn't singling you out at all! I saw that the original post wasn't yours, and I know your posts, they are better than this, I and1 them from time to time. :wink: I just said that it's not a really good post, becouse the 2/3rd of the guys on that list are either irrelevant, or will be by the time we get to 2021 free agency. Especially after then, the next season which will finish in 2022. That's why I was scoffing at guys who are 29/30 year olds NOW. Imagine the guys I put up there 2-3-4-5-6 years from now - if you want to give them a big contract in the 2021 BIGGESTFREEEEAAAAGENCYYYYOFALLLTIME :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd take the rest in a heartbeat in 2021, no doubt about it, no questions asked based on my present knowledge.

But I also think you take a hard pass on pretty much all of the guys I listed up there in the 2021 free agency if they want the last big contract, like they will. Let some other team give them the CP contract.


Although I can't really agree that the majority of the players on the list are already irrelevant or will be by 2021, I do absolutely agree with you on being cautious and/or judicious with respect to whom you choose to sign, and for how much.

Honestly, The only players that I'd be quite comfortable offering a max or near max contract to would be:

- Giannis Antetekounmpo.
- Anthony Davis.
- Damian Lillard.
- Bradley Beal.

*** And maybe perhaps Donovan Mitchell. ( 20-25 tops!).

Now the players that I'd offer between no more than 18-20 would be:

- Lauri Markkanen. ( would love to have him alongside Ayton).

- Jason Tatum. ( He could replace Oubre once he expires or is outpriced by the market?).

- DeAaron Fox. ( I'd love to see him in the backcourt with Booker. He reminds me somewhat of Kevin Johnson).

- Rudy Gobert. ( *** If we decide to develop or move Ayton to the 4 spot ala LaMarcus Aldridge, Or Pau Gasol type scenario).

- Lonzo ball.( closer to 16-18 *** if possible ). I'd try to negotiate to the best price possible for any signing. Maybe by offering contractual incentives.
He can learn behind Rubio before he expires.

**** Ideally, My preference ( should we strike out on one of the really big names) would be to somehow land two great high end talents at different positions of need. Perhaps some combo of :

- Mitchell and Tatum.
- Markannen and Fox.
- Tatum and Beal.
- Markannen and Ball.

Overall, The idea is to currently grow organically, compete for the playoffs, add key pieces when available ( but on short term 1-2 year deals) as to not affect our cap space heading into 2021 free agency. That way we'll be a relatively deep, fun, competitive young playoff team with plenty of cap to add a big name to help make us contenders.

You also have players with player options too. That could be available:

- Kwahi Leonard.
- Jrue Holiday.
- Spenser Dinwiddie.
- Jrue Holiday.
- Blake Griffin.
- CJ McCollum.
- Kyle Kuzma.
- J.J. Reddick , And many many more still. Just imagine keeping our core together, But still being able to possibly add some combo of :

- Jrue Holiday and Blake Griffin.
- Cj McCollum and Markannen.
- Jrue and Tatum.
- Oladipo and Giannis.
- Mitchell and Griffin...........

There's just so many incredible possibilities for us, IF we can only hold on a bit longer honestly. We could absolutely become a top contender. And perennial top 5 playoff team. 2021 is easily the best course of action for us. :wink:
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1852 » by sunsbg » Wed Dec 4, 2019 9:09 pm

Giannis and AD can change the landscape drastically in 2021 if any of them decides to join a team with another young star. If they change teams, I hope they prefer to join a team like the Suns with 2nd tier stars like Booker and Ayton, so they keep the status of the big fish that puts the new team over the top. At this point let's hope the Suns are relevant next season and look enticing to GA or AD.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1853 » by Blonde » Wed Dec 4, 2019 9:10 pm

Making a splash in 2021 free agency has always been a pipedream but I think we should still prepare ourselves for it. Make smart investments in tradeable assets so if Oladipo, Paul George, Mitchell, Giannis, or whoever want to come here we can actually make it happen. But we won’t ever be a destination if (1) we aren’t already playing well, and (2) we don’t have a feasible way to make cap room.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1854 » by Saberestar » Wed Dec 4, 2019 9:44 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Bogyo wrote:
GREATEST FA CLASS OF ALL TIME!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: is that a Screamin A Smith hot take?
LeBron: 34y old now
George: 29y old now, no shoulders
Dame: 29y old now, small guard
Derozan: 30y old now
Russ: 31y old now
Hayward: 29y old now, serious injury history already

Restricted:
JJ - already out of the league
DSJ - on his way out
Ntilinka - same
Nader - who the F is that?

Sure, let's build on these guys... C'mon, man this board is better than this.


Lol......If you notice the link and the name under his initial statement, You'll see that it's not my personal opinion stating it's The unequivocal "Best of all time" And you are of course entitled to your opinion. But I will say that given our current roster, record, and talent level ( sans Booker and Ayton) I'd happily take the majority of players on that list to add to our core in an effort to try and foster dramatic improvement man. As for the cherry picking the lower producing names on that list, No one is saying that any of those are specific or required targets of course.....lol. And to be fair, as with any accurate list, leaving off the lower scale talent just to embellish a point would be kind of disingenuous don't you think.

But honestly, apart from personal preference, Can you seriously tell me that IF given the chance, You wouldn't add any of these particular players with respect to their abilities and/or high end talent:

Lebron James-

*** Disclaimer, Now if you know me at all, Then you know that I HATE Lebron James vehemently. And have even given him the nickname of " Le Douche." But that still doesn't change the fact that he's still even at his current age widely considered one of, If not the best player still in the league. He's still a 3 time NBAchampion, a 3 time finals MVP, a 4 time NBA MVP, A 15 time All star, A 12 time ALL NBA first team, A 5 time ALL NBA first defensive team.The list just keeps going honestly, And he's also helping to lead the Flakers team to the best record in the west. Also, he's always a draw for other big name players too. But you're right, he's old, and shouldn't be considered.

Paul George-

Are you seriously saying you'd deny adding Paul George to our team due to being 29? Again, one of the top players in the league currently, a 6 time time All star, A 4 time ALL NBA third team, A two time ALL NBA defensive team, 2 time ALL NBA 2nd defensive team, And just last season was the league steals leader. He's also helping to lead his team to one of the top records in the really tough, brutal Western Conference. And currently, which of our players on our roster would currently be better than him as it is? But we again would automatically disqualify him because 29 is too old? Yet a lot of us are discussing players such as Kevin Love ( 31) , Blake Griffin ( 30) etc. :lol:

Damian Lillard-

C'mon man honestly??? I love me some Rubio. But you really wouldn't take Damian Lillard because your opposing argument is again that he's too old at age 29? Isn't he still a 4 time All star, 2nd team All NBA, Was rookie of the year and considered by many to be nearly unstoppable one on one? He's also still producing at a really high level. And he's been leading his team to the playoffs repeatedly too still. When was the last time that anyone led our team to the playoffs again??? But yes, let's take solace in the knowledge that at least were not old at 29. Because that's definitely the determining factor for us.

Demarr Derozan-

Surely Not one of the players to garner the highest level of interest, but even at 30, He's still a multiple time All star, 2 time All NBA, A team USA contributor and still a highly productive 20 point per game scorer. He's also still considered by many to be a high end talent, also many I believe would argue even quite a bit better than what we currently have on our roster at the small forward/ power forward position.

Russell Westbrook-

Again the age is the factor of course, Yet how is he producing again. How dominant is he still ( even at 31 yrs old) He's a multi time All star that has consistently helped whatever team that he's played for into the playoffs, averages a ridiculous numbers in terms of the amount of triple doubles he produces, has been an MVP level player repeatedly and even now, again at age 31 :o is helping to lead the rockets to one of the best records in the Western Conference.Having him on your roster almost guarantees you'll be in the playoffs. But we can't take him because he's 31.

Gordon Hayward-

Probably your most solid argument at his current pricetag and with his recent injury. However, once again at 29 he's still an All star level player who is highly productive, very versatile at 6'8 and is a very good shooter who hits big shots and has put up numbers such as 18 points 7 rebounds/ 4 assists. Also, prior to his injury, he helped the Celtics to one of their best records last season I think it was? Other than Booker, Who currently on our roster can/ has consistently his recent production consistently? And again, he likely wouldn't be at his current pricetag again, especially coming back from an injury.

Restricted:

I'll agree that the names you specifically selected from that list are definitely not going to be high on anyone's wishlists, However, Cherry picking only certain names from the list again for sake of argument, is not something that I'm a fan of as I just find it disingenuous personally. And doesn't give an accurate portrayal of the overall value of the list. So let's review a few names omitted from my original post. First with respect to the restricted list.


-Donovan Mitchell.
-Jason Tatum.
-Lonzo Ball.
Lauri Markannen.
De' Aaron Fox.

Are any of those players who were omitted, Players that you feel personally would not help us drastically improve given our current roster, or that you wouldn't add to our core IF given the chance honestly man? Again, how many players currently on our roster would be widely considered better or have higher value?

Who would you honestly prefer to go with instead? Either by way of Johnson's expiring, theough trade, Or cap space in general?

And finally with respect to the unrestricted names left off from the list: ( Not many, But still important).

-Anthony Davis.
-Giannis Antetekounmpo.
- Bradley Beal.
- Rudy Gobert.

Who here wouldn't sign any of those players in a heartbeat IF they had the chance AND were available? Which one of those players wouldn't improve our current roster immensely. So with respect to that, I do apologize if the ( Reddit poster's) statement did seem somewhat blown out of porportion man. But in all honesty, When was the last time that you had an actual free agency with this many max level all star cornerstone players all becoming free agents at the same time? On top of that, a draft so loaded due to the rule changes also allowing high school players to be eligible as well. Essentially creating a double draft of sorts. Now in fairness I do agree with your opinion on Josh Jackson, Frank Nitkilinia, and Abdel Nader. But let's be honest in that the " Best ever" reference wasn't built around those players primarily as I'm sure that you're aware. So Yes, I will stand by the assertion that the 2021 nba free agency is widely considered to be one of IF not the greatest free agency ever. And the overall majority consensus would only strengthen that opinion I believe man.

But your always free to disagree. :D


I agree it has to be one of the better FA classes of all time. LeBron, AD, Giannis alone put it up there. Add guys like Beal, Gobert, Lillard and Hayward has to REALLY put it up there. I don't remember many better ones.

Personally I think if we had a slim chance to get one, it would be AD, due to his relationship with Monty (the recent Monty article was very interesting to read about that)...though if he goes deep into the playoffs with LeBron a couple years, I am not sure he would want to leave barring a massive LeBron regression (which is certainly possible).

That FA class of 2021 is not gonna be like that.

Always happens the same, extensions are gonna be done between now and the summer of 2021, and then the pool of FAs will not be that good.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1855 » by Dual » Wed Dec 4, 2019 9:48 pm

I just heard in a podcast that Tyler Johnson +/- this season is in the bottom 10 of all the league.
That's crazy.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1856 » by bwgood77 » Wed Dec 4, 2019 10:02 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Lol......If you notice the link and the name under his initial statement, You'll see that it's not my personal opinion stating it's The unequivocal "Best of all time" And you are of course entitled to your opinion. But I will say that given our current roster, record, and talent level ( sans Booker and Ayton) I'd happily take the majority of players on that list to add to our core in an effort to try and foster dramatic improvement man. As for the cherry picking the lower producing names on that list, No one is saying that any of those are specific or required targets of course.....lol. And to be fair, as with any accurate list, leaving off the lower scale talent just to embellish a point would be kind of disingenuous don't you think.

But honestly, apart from personal preference, Can you seriously tell me that IF given the chance, You wouldn't add any of these particular players with respect to their abilities and/or high end talent:

Lebron James-

*** Disclaimer, Now if you know me at all, Then you know that I HATE Lebron James vehemently. And have even given him the nickname of " Le Douche." But that still doesn't change the fact that he's still even at his current age widely considered one of, If not the best player still in the league. He's still a 3 time NBAchampion, a 3 time finals MVP, a 4 time NBA MVP, A 15 time All star, A 12 time ALL NBA first team, A 5 time ALL NBA first defensive team.The list just keeps going honestly, And he's also helping to lead the Flakers team to the best record in the west. Also, he's always a draw for other big name players too. But you're right, he's old, and shouldn't be considered.

Paul George-

Are you seriously saying you'd deny adding Paul George to our team due to being 29? Again, one of the top players in the league currently, a 6 time time All star, A 4 time ALL NBA third team, A two time ALL NBA defensive team, 2 time ALL NBA 2nd defensive team, And just last season was the league steals leader. He's also helping to lead his team to one of the top records in the really tough, brutal Western Conference. And currently, which of our players on our roster would currently be better than him as it is? But we again would automatically disqualify him because 29 is too old? Yet a lot of us are discussing players such as Kevin Love ( 31) , Blake Griffin ( 30) etc. :lol:

Damian Lillard-

C'mon man honestly??? I love me some Rubio. But you really wouldn't take Damian Lillard because your opposing argument is again that he's too old at age 29? Isn't he still a 4 time All star, 2nd team All NBA, Was rookie of the year and considered by many to be nearly unstoppable one on one? He's also still producing at a really high level. And he's been leading his team to the playoffs repeatedly too still. When was the last time that anyone led our team to the playoffs again??? But yes, let's take solace in the knowledge that at least were not old at 29. Because that's definitely the determining factor for us.

Demarr Derozan-

Surely Not one of the players to garner the highest level of interest, but even at 30, He's still a multiple time All star, 2 time All NBA, A team USA contributor and still a highly productive 20 point per game scorer. He's also still considered by many to be a high end talent, also many I believe would argue even quite a bit better than what we currently have on our roster at the small forward/ power forward position.

Russell Westbrook-

Again the age is the factor of course, Yet how is he producing again. How dominant is he still ( even at 31 yrs old) He's a multi time All star that has consistently helped whatever team that he's played for into the playoffs, averages a ridiculous numbers in terms of the amount of triple doubles he produces, has been an MVP level player repeatedly and even now, again at age 31 :o is helping to lead the rockets to one of the best records in the Western Conference.Having him on your roster almost guarantees you'll be in the playoffs. But we can't take him because he's 31.

Gordon Hayward-

Probably your most solid argument at his current pricetag and with his recent injury. However, once again at 29 he's still an All star level player who is highly productive, very versatile at 6'8 and is a very good shooter who hits big shots and has put up numbers such as 18 points 7 rebounds/ 4 assists. Also, prior to his injury, he helped the Celtics to one of their best records last season I think it was? Other than Booker, Who currently on our roster can/ has consistently his recent production consistently? And again, he likely wouldn't be at his current pricetag again, especially coming back from an injury.

Restricted:

I'll agree that the names you specifically selected from that list are definitely not going to be high on anyone's wishlists, However, Cherry picking only certain names from the list again for sake of argument, is not something that I'm a fan of as I just find it disingenuous personally. And doesn't give an accurate portrayal of the overall value of the list. So let's review a few names omitted from my original post. First with respect to the restricted list.


-Donovan Mitchell.
-Jason Tatum.
-Lonzo Ball.
Lauri Markannen.
De' Aaron Fox.

Are any of those players who were omitted, Players that you feel personally would not help us drastically improve given our current roster, or that you wouldn't add to our core IF given the chance honestly man? Again, how many players currently on our roster would be widely considered better or have higher value?

Who would you honestly prefer to go with instead? Either by way of Johnson's expiring, theough trade, Or cap space in general?

And finally with respect to the unrestricted names left off from the list: ( Not many, But still important).

-Anthony Davis.
-Giannis Antetekounmpo.
- Bradley Beal.
- Rudy Gobert.

Who here wouldn't sign any of those players in a heartbeat IF they had the chance AND were available? Which one of those players wouldn't improve our current roster immensely. So with respect to that, I do apologize if the ( Reddit poster's) statement did seem somewhat blown out of porportion man. But in all honesty, When was the last time that you had an actual free agency with this many max level all star cornerstone players all becoming free agents at the same time? On top of that, a draft so loaded due to the rule changes also allowing high school players to be eligible as well. Essentially creating a double draft of sorts. Now in fairness I do agree with your opinion on Josh Jackson, Frank Nitkilinia, and Abdel Nader. But let's be honest in that the " Best ever" reference wasn't built around those players primarily as I'm sure that you're aware. So Yes, I will stand by the assertion that the 2021 nba free agency is widely considered to be one of IF not the greatest free agency ever. And the overall majority consensus would only strengthen that opinion I believe man.

But your always free to disagree. :D


I agree it has to be one of the better FA classes of all time. LeBron, AD, Giannis alone put it up there. Add guys like Beal, Gobert, Lillard and Hayward has to REALLY put it up there. I don't remember many better ones.

Personally I think if we had a slim chance to get one, it would be AD, due to his relationship with Monty (the recent Monty article was very interesting to read about that)...though if he goes deep into the playoffs with LeBron a couple years, I am not sure he would want to leave barring a massive LeBron regression (which is certainly possible).

That FA class of 2021 is not gonna be like that.

Always happens the same, extensions are gonna be done between now and the summer of 2021, and then the pool of FAs will not be that good.


Of course, with some, but some might want to hit FA...I'm not sure how long AD has been in the league but he will do one year contracts until he gets to that 10 year mark which moves you up a tier for max contracts.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1857 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Dec 4, 2019 10:34 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Spoiler:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Lol......If you notice the link and the name under his initial statement, You'll see that it's not my personal opinion stating it's The unequivocal "Best of all time" And you are of course entitled to your opinion. But I will say that given our current roster, record, and talent level ( sans Booker and Ayton) I'd happily take the majority of players on that list to add to our core in an effort to try and foster dramatic improvement man. As for the cherry picking the lower producing names on that list, No one is saying that any of those are specific or required targets of course.....lol. And to be fair, as with any accurate list, leaving off the lower scale talent just to embellish a point would be kind of disingenuous don't you think.

But honestly, apart from personal preference, Can you seriously tell me that IF given the chance, You wouldn't add any of these particular players with respect to their abilities and/or high end talent:

Lebron James-

*** Disclaimer, Now if you know me at all, Then you know that I HATE Lebron James vehemently. And have even given him the nickname of " Le Douche." But that still doesn't change the fact that he's still even at his current age widely considered one of, If not the best player still in the league. He's still a 3 time NBAchampion, a 3 time finals MVP, a 4 time NBA MVP, A 15 time All star, A 12 time ALL NBA first team, A 5 time ALL NBA first defensive team.The list just keeps going honestly, And he's also helping to lead the Flakers team to the best record in the west. Also, he's always a draw for other big name players too. But you're right, he's old, and shouldn't be considered.

Paul George-

Are you seriously saying you'd deny adding Paul George to our team due to being 29? Again, one of the top players in the league currently, a 6 time time All star, A 4 time ALL NBA third team, A two time ALL NBA defensive team, 2 time ALL NBA 2nd defensive team, And just last season was the league steals leader. He's also helping to lead his team to one of the top records in the really tough, brutal Western Conference. And currently, which of our players on our roster would currently be better than him as it is? But we again would automatically disqualify him because 29 is too old? Yet a lot of us are discussing players such as Kevin Love ( 31) , Blake Griffin ( 30) etc. :lol:

Damian Lillard-

C'mon man honestly??? I love me some Rubio. But you really wouldn't take Damian Lillard because your opposing argument is again that he's too old at age 29? Isn't he still a 4 time All star, 2nd team All NBA, Was rookie of the year and considered by many to be nearly unstoppable one on one? He's also still producing at a really high level. And he's been leading his team to the playoffs repeatedly too still. When was the last time that anyone led our team to the playoffs again??? But yes, let's take solace in the knowledge that at least were not old at 29. Because that's definitely the determining factor for us.

Demarr Derozan-

Surely Not one of the players to garner the highest level of interest, but even at 30, He's still a multiple time All star, 2 time All NBA, A team USA contributor and still a highly productive 20 point per game scorer. He's also still considered by many to be a high end talent, also many I believe would argue even quite a bit better than what we currently have on our roster at the small forward/ power forward position.

Russell Westbrook-

Again the age is the factor of course, Yet how is he producing again. How dominant is he still ( even at 31 yrs old) He's a multi time All star that has consistently helped whatever team that he's played for into the playoffs, averages a ridiculous numbers in terms of the amount of triple doubles he produces, has been an MVP level player repeatedly and even now, again at age 31 :o is helping to lead the rockets to one of the best records in the Western Conference.Having him on your roster almost guarantees you'll be in the playoffs. But we can't take him because he's 31.

Gordon Hayward-

Probably your most solid argument at his current pricetag and with his recent injury. However, once again at 29 he's still an All star level player who is highly productive, very versatile at 6'8 and is a very good shooter who hits big shots and has put up numbers such as 18 points 7 rebounds/ 4 assists. Also, prior to his injury, he helped the Celtics to one of their best records last season I think it was? Other than Booker, Who currently on our roster can/ has consistently his recent production consistently? And again, he likely wouldn't be at his current pricetag again, especially coming back from an injury.

Restricted:

I'll agree that the names you specifically selected from that list are definitely not going to be high on anyone's wishlists, However, Cherry picking only certain names from the list again for sake of argument, is not something that I'm a fan of as I just find it disingenuous personally. And doesn't give an accurate portrayal of the overall value of the list. So let's review a few names omitted from my original post. First with respect to the restricted list.


-Donovan Mitchell.
-Jason Tatum.
-Lonzo Ball.
Lauri Markannen.
De' Aaron Fox.

Are any of those players who were omitted, Players that you feel personally would not help us drastically improve given our current roster, or that you wouldn't add to our core IF given the chance honestly man? Again, how many players currently on our roster would be widely considered better or have higher value?

Who would you honestly prefer to go with instead? Either by way of Johnson's expiring, theough trade, Or cap space in general?

And finally with respect to the unrestricted names left off from the list: ( Not many, But still important).

-Anthony Davis.
-Giannis Antetekounmpo.
- Bradley Beal.
- Rudy Gobert.

Who here wouldn't sign any of those players in a heartbeat IF they had the chance AND were available? Which one of those players wouldn't improve our current roster immensely. So with respect to that, I do apologize if the ( Reddit poster's) statement did seem somewhat blown out of porportion man. But in all honesty, When was the last time that you had an actual free agency with this many max level all star cornerstone players all becoming free agents at the same time? On top of that, a draft so loaded due to the rule changes also allowing high school players to be eligible as well. Essentially creating a double draft of sorts. Now in fairness I do agree with your opinion on Josh Jackson, Frank Nitkilinia, and Abdel Nader. But let's be honest in that the " Best ever" reference wasn't built around those players primarily as I'm sure that you're aware. So Yes, I will stand by the assertion that the 2021 nba free agency is widely considered to be one of IF not the greatest free agency ever. And the overall majority consensus would only strengthen that opinion I believe man.

But your always free to disagree. :D


I agree it has to be one of the better FA classes of all time. LeBron, AD, Giannis alone put it up there. Add guys like Beal, Gobert, Lillard and Hayward has to REALLY put it up there. I don't remember many better ones.

Personally I think if we had a slim chance to get one, it would be AD, due to his relationship with Monty (the recent Monty article was very interesting to read about that)...though if he goes deep into the playoffs with LeBron a couple years, I am not sure he would want to leave barring a massive LeBron regression (which is certainly possible).

That FA class of 2021 is not gonna be like that.

Always happens the same, extensions are gonna be done between now and the summer of 2021, and then the pool of FAs will not be that good.

+1

My problem with the supposed greatness of this vaunted 2021 FA class is that there also seems to be a massive gulf between the guys who were/great now but in two years will already be in the downside of their career and then the host of restricted FA's who are starting to get really good now but likely will be retained by their team.

Only guys I see truly attractive and possibly available is Giannis, VO, Dinwiddie, maybe PG/Kawhi (depending on health)......and do we have a realistic shot at Giannis/Kawhi/PG. I mean do we really want a 35-36 year old Lebron?

Every few years there's some amazing FA class and who do we end up getting after all that waiting and planning?
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1858 » by Frank Lee » Wed Dec 4, 2019 11:54 pm

Jesus .... you guys are a little ahead of the game. 2021 is a century away in BBall years. Its this year we need to focus on getting better. Betting on the FAgent market 2 yrs from now is a big foam finger crosser.

And BTW, Im uncringingly endorsing a Baynes Ayton Oubre front court. Might as well play your best players. If it works, look out league. Any which way, Baynes deserves 24 minutes and Ayton 33-35. There has to be some overlap. We should welcome it.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1859 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 5, 2019 12:33 am

We are better, when healthy. We may not ever be fully healthy but we will get Ayton back. Lets stop the trade for $30 million injury prone overpaid declining superstars until we see this team at full strength. Everyone always wants to constantly turn over this roster. I thought that might end after how good we saw we were when healthy early. Guess not.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#1860 » by TeamTragic » Thu Dec 5, 2019 4:10 am

bwgood77 wrote:We are better, when healthy. We may not ever be fully healthy but we will get Ayton back. Lets stop the trade for $30 million injury prone overpaid declining superstars until we see this team at full strength. Everyone always wants to constantly turn over this roster. I thought that might end after how good we saw we were when healthy early. Guess not.


You want to put your faith in Ayton? In case you didn't notice he let this team down and appears to have zero passion for the game.

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